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$1 Trillion and no debate

Nautiknight

Golden Knight
Gold Member
Sep 17, 2003
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Cullowhee, NC
Today I heard the U Penn Wharton got a hold of the Biden plan for student loan forgiveness. Turns out it's really over a trillion and it's just going to be tacked onto our debt . I heard a talking head on XM breaking down the plan. What we all heard was everyone with a student loan making less than $125k or $250k for a couple would get the $10k off the top and some making less get $20k off the top. That's where the $300 billion came into the equation.

However, what the plan is really doing is then going to calculate a reduced payment based on discretionary income after housing and electric and food is figured into the budget. Then if you work in any of the dozen or so preferred fields like teaching, government bureaucrats, nursing ,etc you get to qualify for this second part . They will calculate your payment based on discretionary income and if you pay on time for a decade the remainder of your loan will be forgiven.

They used a nurse for an example with $70k in student debt making $80k a year . He said using average household expenses for housing power and food the nurse's payment would be around $61 a month. The plan calculates 5% of the discretionary income would be the payment amount. The guy then says over a 10 year period the nurse would pay around $7,000 and change . Then the magic happens their remaining loan amount is gone , just wiped clean . Hence the real costs is now over $1 trillion dollars and the total paid back by the nurse is just over $7k on a $70k loan .

Now many here might think just do it . However, my beef with this thing is centered around the fact the administration used Weasley language in the COVID Bill to justify doing this through executive order . There was no debate ,no discussion in either the House or Senate . It's just wave the wand and all is good.

I am moderately open to addressing this issue but how this thing happened is just wrong . It's a trillion dollars just saddled onto our debt with no way to pay for it and no discussion on the issues . I am Joe Biden and I made it so . I wouldn't be thrilled if Trump or any Republican did it either. All bills dealing with taxation and spending must originate in the House according to the Constitution. They used open ended language and justified this under COVID relief .

This is a huge give away for people making upwards of $240,000 and it just happened without a word in Congress . I find that wrong and unacceptable. I don't care how you vote , you should also find the way this was done not right either. They were deceitful In the amount, how the plan will work,who really gets to benefit and how it would be paid for. Not a single congressman or senator got to vote for it or against it. It's only a trillion on top of $32 trillion , just add it to my tab .
 
We the middle class believe Biden when he says only the rich will pay and there will be 78k new armed IRS agents to shake them down.
 
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We the middle class believe Biden when he says only the rich will pay and there will be 78k new armed IRS agents to shake them down.
Um, it's 87,00 new agents or 1,740 agents per state if you equally divide the number by 50. However, Alaska, Wyoming , Montana ,North Dakota and such won't get their alotted 1,740 agents because nobody lives there . Here in North Carolina we are looking at 17 agents per county .North Carolina has 100 counties . I guess all my rich mountain friends better watch out! It's a federal police state in the making. In my county there are 4 shift sergeants in charge of 4 deputies. We could actually have more IRS agents than local deputies in my county . That's perspective of what's coming our way .

But the student loan thing is being rammed through without debate ,without a specific bill or a vote . That's not how we roll in America . The President isn't a king . He is a bum and is supposed to be one .
 
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Um, it's 87,00 new agents or 1,740 agents per state if you equally divide the number by 50. However, Alaska, Wyoming , Montana ,North Dakota and such won't get their alotted 1,740 agents because nobody lives there . Here in North Carolina we are looking at 17 agents per county .North Carolina has 100 counties . I guess all my rich mountain friends better watch out! It's a federal police state in the making. In my county there are 4 shift sergeants in charge of 4 deputies. We could actually have more IRS agents than local deputies in my county . That's perspective of what's coming our way .

But the student loan thing is being rammed through without debate ,without a specific bill or a vote . That's not how we roll in America . The President isn't a king . He is a bum and is supposed to be one .
I knew it was 87k just tpyo.
 
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you wait for the Senate to act on this and it will be 2035 and we will still be waiting

take this over the other extreme where there is a growing animosity towards College education. It is valuable in multiple ways but they keep using these cheap generalizations in their attacks
 
I am moderately open to addressing this issue but how this thing happened is just wrong . It's a trillion dollars just saddled onto our debt with no way to pay for it and no discussion on the issues.
I don't recall your angst when Trump and the Republicans rammed through a tax cut for the weathiest people in this country. Ironically, it was labeled as an 'economic stimulus' bill at the time. When it comes to a genuine economic stimulus, this move by Biden is it. What do you think all those people straddled with crippling student loan debt are going to do with their money now that they aren't making loan repayments?
This is a huge give away for people making upwards of $240,000 and it just happened without a word in Congress. I find that wrong and unacceptable.
Nice try. You and I both know that the vast majority of the people helped by this action aren't making much.
Not a single congressman or senator got to vote for it or against it. It's only a trillion on top of $32 trillion , just add it to my tab .
I'm curious how we keep sending millions upon millions of dollars to support Ukraine without any discussions in Washington, DC. I'm not anti-helping Ukraine out but it seems to me that anytime we're talking war money, it just magically appears.
 
The President isn't a king . He is a bum and is supposed to be one .
^^^ This x100

I'm tired of Americans of both parties wanting more power in the Executive. It should be the opposite. And the US Congress 1990+ being as ineffective and as special interest-focused as UK Parliament of 1750-1830'ish is not helping.

Even King George III sided with us privately. He dealt with all the dirty wars corporate troops were causing, which required the Crown's troops to help 'put down.'
 
First off the tax cuts were written and passed by CONGRESS then signed by the President, as they should have been. We can argue the cost/benefit, but they were done correctly. The forgiving of Loans is a presidential order that bypassed congressional approval, which is not done correctly. Let the congress pass the bill and DJ (Dementia Joe) sign it and then we can argue the benefits. I am tired of short cuts taken by presidents to bypass the constitution. The Executive was designed to be a fairly weak office and we need to return to that.
 
lol. Trump tax cuts cost 1.5 trillion, 1.4 trillion of which was realized by the top 1% of earners.
But let us not forget that the Trump tax cuts bill was touted as an 'economic stimulus' package. To all you Trumpsters out here I ask: How'd THAT work out for us?

Yet a loan forgiveness program is automatically blasted as being a 'giveaway.' SMH.

But I am frustrated that the loan forgiveness EO doesn't do anything to address the real problem facing our country: The high cost of a college education. If any other segment of our economy had seen a 500% mark-up in the cost over the course of my lifetime, we'd have Congressional hearings up the ying-yang with the industry leaders responsible for it. But University officials keep doing their same-old same-old. In fact, the bailout will only encourage them to keep doing what they've always done.

I've been a lifelong supporter of higher education in our country. But in my humble opinion, something has to fundamentally change with the system.
 
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But let us not forget that the Trump tax cuts bill was touted as an 'economic stimulus' package. To all you Trumpsters out here I ask: How'd THAT work out for us?

Yet a loan forgiveness program is automatically blasted as being a 'giveaway.' SMH.

But I am frustrated that the loan forgiveness EO doesn't do anything to address the real problem facing our country: The high cost of a college education. If any other segment of our economy had seen a 500% mark-up in the cost over the course of my lifetime, we'd have Congressional hearings up the ying-yang with the industry leaders responsible for it. But University officials keep doing their same-old same-old. In fact, the bailout will only encourage them to keep doing what they've always done.

I've been a lifelong supporter of higher education in our country. But in my humble opinion, something has to fundamentally change with the system.
Inflation was down, Employment at an all time High, Food stamp use down, Lowest unemployment of blacks in decades. Possibly the best economy ever until Fauci/China Flu hit.

I agree education cost are out of control, the school system is run by Progressive liberals. Because we handed out money like it grew on trees, people were going to college and getting useless degrees, while piling up mountains of debt and the schools, flush with cash just kept raising their rates at 2 and 3 times the rate of inflation.

Fixing most things do not require Government spending.
Tax receipts are taken from those who earned the $$.
 
Tax receipts are taken from those who earned the $$.
Duh. Where the hell is the money supposed to come from?

I find it ironic that we have a water crisis in Jackson, Mississippi. If you listen to the reports, we're told that necessary upgrades and maintenance had been deferred on their water system for decades. Gee, I wonder why?
 
Inflation was down, Employment at an all time High, Food stamp use down, Lowest unemployment of blacks in decades. Possibly the best economy ever until Fauci/China Flu hit.

I agree education cost are out of control, the school system is run by Progressive liberals. Because we handed out money like it grew on trees, people were going to college and getting useless degrees, while piling up mountains of debt and the schools, flush with cash just kept raising their rates at 2 and 3 times the rate of inflation.

Fixing most things do not require Government spending.
Tax receipts are taken from those who earned the $$.

The school system in every state is run by progressive liberals?

You’re just falling for propaganda like the easy mark you are.

Republican legislators across the country slash school funding, then schools are forced to raise tuition to keep the lights on. Higher tuition = higher loans.
 
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Lets debate Liberals taking from those who didn't borrow and giving it to those who did borrow is good
Conservatives, taking from those who didn't borrow and giving it to those that did is bad.
Liberals another 1 trillion debt, Great Idea
Conservatives another 1 trillion debt, bad idea.


Public colleges are not cash strapped, Most are growing, adding to endowments, and having no problems staying open. Private colleges don't get their $$ from government to begin with. What states have slashed college spending? My guess is very few or none. If slashing spending means 1.5% increase for year with 1% inflation vs 3.5% increase than yes funding gets slashed. and yes almost every university is run by progressives.

Even with more funding they still raise rates 3 and 4 times the rate of inflation, and yes those hikes cause more debt, but that debt is a choice. Go learn a trade, no debt and a solid living.
 
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Perfect example of 8 year-old logic around here, without actually hitting budgets ...

The school system in every state is run by progressive liberals?
You’re just falling for propaganda like the easy mark you are.
The unions heavily utilize contributions for PACs. That's why union educators vote nearly 90% DNC, and at the federal level, it's far more absolute. That's why it's a heavily Progressive agenda.

It drives moderates like my wife insane ... especially since her 'liability insurance' was tied to a PAC-funding group. Everyone complains about the NRA or -- if they are less ignorant -- the USCCA, and how they spend things on PACs, from general funds. But at least that's a voluntary membership. In many states, it's even mandatory to belong to educator unions that do this!

At most as far as Republicans ...

They have been pushing the private schools, magnet options and the school vouchers. Libertarian minded Republicans have pointed out issues with that, because of the 'guaranteed income' aspect and how such private institutions now have as big of a 'conflict of interest' as public schools.

That's why Libertarians are more for 'tax refunds' than direct 'vouchers' for those parents who home school or send to private.

Republican legislators across the country slash school funding,
This hasn't been true since W., given his wife was an educator and a major proponent of boosting funding. W. proved that by boosting education funding, there's no guarantee of better results. In fact, W. is largely the architect of the student loan crisis, expanding well beyond Clinton's initiatives. Obama then tried to 'reel in' the problem, only making it worse.

This farce that Republicans are against school finding needs to die.

Too many Republicans have boosted funding because they are not 'fiscal conservatives' any more, quite the opposite! At most, some more Libertarian-minded ones are trying to shut down all the 'pork' that has result that rarely makes it to kids. Especially subsidizing college loans to costly, private universities.

Basically trying to 'roll back' all the non-sense of Clinton, W. and Obama ... especially W.

I actually agree with that because most of W.'s moves really benefitted for-profit colleges more than any other Executive ... at a massive cost to the taxpayer as well as even more by the student. But it also has to do with the fact that unlike us Gen-X'ers, let alone Baby Boomers, most college kids don't work until they graduate.

And trades ... they are non-existent, even 'looked down upon.'

then schools are forced to raise tuition to keep the lights on. Higher tuition = higher loans.
No, look at the expenses at a typical university ... and it's not just athletics.

Again, hit the budgets. The answers are there. Just like when people complain about education v. defense, when Education in the US is over $2T/year, over $1.2T/year taxpayer funded, +50% over defense funding.

But people don't know that becasue the US Media lies and only lists federal spending, which is a whole 12% of education funding. Yes ... every year the taxpayers fund more than the entire F-35 program will cost, including parts, support, life time costs, will over 40 years.

Americans really need to think we're not spending enough on education. We're only spending more now, for less results ... which has a lot to do with the folly of government, as W. proved. If you fund it, the lobbyists will multiply.

It's the same reason California's 'Green' plan is costing 10x as much as Germany's, Watt for Watt. Kill the market balance, guarantee funding, and ... the lobbyists will multiply. Heck, most of Big Oil's lobbyists have 'switched,' because they see where the money is.
 
You really need to shorten your comments. Feel like I am reading War and Peace. { :0)>
 
What states have slashed college spending? My guess is very few or none.
Are you kidding me? What States HAVEN'T slashed their percentage of spending on higher education?

One of the reasons why student and parent loans have become so prevalent is because they have essentially replaced the state aid that used to be an important part of student financial aid packages.

Over the past 30-40 years, State legislatures have had more pressing spending needs to address --- like building more prisons.
 
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Are you kidding me? What States HAVEN'T slashed their percentage of spending on higher education?

One of the reasons why student and parent loans have become so prevalent is because they have essentially replaced the state aid that used to be an important part of student financial aid packages.

Over the past 30-40 years, State legislatures have had more pressing spending needs to address --- like building more prisons.
This I actually agree with.

Can you agree that we've stupidly incarcerated and destroyed way too many young people, especially with 7x as many incarcerations 1994-2019, despite violence crimes going down over the same period?

I honestly believe we're at the point it doesn't matter what we do, because we've screwed over so many people. Our literacy and other rates are also abysmal. Jacking us up to an even bigger police state is futile too.

The deterrence of prosecution and conviction isn't working any more.
 
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This I actually agree with.

Can you agree that we've stupidly incarcerated and destroyed way too many young people, especially with 7x as many incarcerations 1994-2019, despite violence crimes going down over the same period?

I honestly believe we're at the point it doesn't matter what we do, because we've screwed over so many people. Our literacy and other rates are also abysmal. Jacking us up to an even bigger police state is futile too.

The deterrence of prosecution and conviction isn't working any more.

Some common ground. Take my like
 
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