A Battle for the Moderate Middle?

[DaShuckster]

I thought this comment deserved its own discussion thread:

Democrats aren't going to do shit.
They will, however, stop the incessant bleeding caused by Republicans and the Trump Administration, which is good.

Given what we've all just gone through, "not doing shit" actually doesn't sound too bad.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. My gut feeling says that the Biden Administration is going to play things pretty close to the vest. Yeah, taking the Senate will mean that Joe doesn't have to worry now about his cabinet picks getting confirmed. But I will be shocked if 'winning the Senate' heralds in a new "progressive movement" -- which will - no doubt - piss off the populist, progressive side of the party. Yeah, we'll likely see a new stimulus bill and a long-overdue infrastructure bill, but I think Biden sees his role as a 'healer' and a 'mender,' not an ideologue with an aggressive agenda to achieve.

I've argued that Trump's antics have split the Republican Party which have put the Democrats in a commanding position. But I wouldn't discount the possibility that the Democrat Party's 'wealth of riches,' (having all three branches of government) may result in their own party's civil war. If the Progressive side feels Biden 'isn't pushing their causes aggressively enough,' we may see a similar split between the moderates and the radicals we've seen with the Republicans.

 

[Crazyhole]

I thought this comment deserved its own discussion thread:

Given what we've all just gone through, "not doing shit" actually doesn't sound too bad.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. My gut feeling says that the Biden Administration is going to play things pretty close to the vest. Yeah, taking the Senate will mean that Joe doesn't have to worry now about his cabinet picks getting confirmed. But I will be shocked if 'winning the Senate' heralds in a new "progressive movement" -- which will - no doubt - piss off the populist, progressive side of the party. Yeah, we'll likely see a new stimulus bill and a long-overdue infrastructure bill, but I think Biden sees his role as a 'healer' and a 'mender,' not an ideologue with an aggressive agenda to achieve.

I've argued that Trump's antics have split the Republican Party which have put the Democrats in a commanding position. But I wouldn't discount the possibility that the Democrat Party's 'wealth of riches,' (having all three branches of government) may result in their own party's civil war. If the Progressive side feels Biden 'isn't pushing their causes aggressively enough,' we may see a similar split between the moderates and the radicals we've seen with the Republicans.

Its already happening, just like it was happening with the Republicans before Trump. They have to move one direction or the other, there's no way they can please both sides.

 

[DaShuckster]

Its already happening, just like it was happening with the Republicans before Trump. They have to move one direction or the other, there's no way they can please both sides.

Prior to last night, the Progressives would have been held in check because they would have understood Biden's hands were tied because Mitch McConnell would have stopped any bill anyway. Now Joe won't have Mitch to use as a shield.

 

[Crazyhole]

Prior to last night, the Progressives would have been held in check because they would have understood Biden's hands were tied because Mitch McConnell would have stopped any bill anyway. Now Joe won't have Mitch to use as a shield.

I'm going to enjoy watching it. Without having a boogeyman with an (R) behind his name to blame, what excuse can they come up with? Fiscal responsibility went out the window years ago so they can't lean on "we can't afford it".

 

[DaShuckster]

I'm going to enjoy watching it. Without having a boogeyman with an (R) behind his name to blame, what excuse can they come up with? Fiscal responsibility went out the window years ago so they can't lean on "we can't afford it".

LOL Haven't you gotten the news? Fiscal responsibility is only two weeks away from becoming the "in thing" again in conservative circles.

You act like Trump and his Trumpets are going to fade into the sunset. Fat chance. Donald's loud media megaphone will help offset the loud voices from the populist left, leaving "Comfy Joe" free to operate in the Moderate Middle.

 

[Poolside Knight]

The John Lewis Voting Rights Act will actually get a vote now , don’t know how anyone liked McConnell

 

[Crazyhole]

LOL Haven't you gotten the news? Fiscal responsibility is only two weeks away from becoming the "in thing" again in conservative circles.

You act like Trump and his Trumpets are going to fade into the sunset. Fat chance. Donald's loud media megaphone will help offset the loud voices from the populist left, leaving "Comfy Joe" free to operate in the Moderate Middle.

Of course the Republicans are going to talk about it now that they arent in charge. That's what they always do. It still can't stop the dems from doing ANYTHING they want. The onus is on them now, and its obvious that you're a little bit scared about what that means.

 

[chemmie]

Democrats are completely happy with the status quo. They are making plenty of money off the backs of typical Americans. They have absolutely no incentive to change this.

Republicans, on the other hand, have shown they want nothing more than to continue exploiting typical Americans for their own wealth, and there really is no end in sight.

So, our "choices" are to keep things the same, or make it worse.
Don't think the black people who won this election for Democrats don't know. Democrats don't care about them, but at least they don't make things worse.
Will the DNC realize this and actually implement progressive policies to help ordinary Americans? Or will they continue doing what they have done in the past, lose the next two elections and the cycle starts all over again?

 

[DaShuckster]

its obvious that you're a little bit scared about what that means.

Sorry, but I'm not buying "the socialists are taking over!" line. The only thing this means is that we won't be wasting time playing McConnell's gridlock game.

Anyone who believes yesterday's vote is ushering in a grand "new progressive age" is fooling themselves.

 

[Crazyhole]

Sorry, but I'm not buying "the socialists are taking over!" line. The only thing this means is that we won't be wasting time playing McConnell's gridlock game.

Anyone who believes yesterday's vote is ushering in a grand "new progressive age" is fooling themselves.

No gridlock?

So "defund the police" is an issue that all democrats agree on? Which way will that go?

 

[Poolside Knight]

Sorry, but I'm not buying "the socialists are taking over!" line. The only thing this means is that we won't be wasting time playing McConnell's gridlock game.

Anyone who believes yesterday's vote is ushering in a grand "new progressive age" is fooling themselves.

most Progressive ideas are popular when presented individually but the Right Media Eco System is good at scaring the shit out of everyone. Same cycle happened w Obamacare, many people that protested against it now rely on it

for example if a public option passed and the economy is not bad in 2022 or 24 no one will care

 

[Crazyhole]

most Progressive ideas are popular when presented individually but the Right Media Eco System is good at scaring the shit out of everyone. Same cycle happened w Obamacare, many people that protested against it now rely on it

for example if a public option passed and the economy is not bad in 2022 or 24 no one will care

Why just a public option? Just make healthcare free. Who would oppose that?

 

[DaShuckster]

No gridlock?

Depends upon your definition of gridlock. It certainly doesn't mean everything that goes out of committee will be passed by both houses but there will be a sense that the people's work is being done again - by the members of both parties.

Thanks to last night's upset victories, we're entering a refreshing time when bills will go forward and issues will receive a hearing: they will be discussed on the floor again -- and individual Senators will have a voice again.

So "defund the police" is an issue that all democrats agree on? Which way will that go?

You've been listening to Trump again. Biden has made it crystal clear that he opposes the 'defund the police' movement. That doesn't mean that law enforcement in many parts of this country don't need to have some of their practices and procedures changed.

 

[Crazyhole]

Depends upon your definition of gridlock. It certainly doesn't mean everything that goes out of committee will be passed by both houses but there will be a sense that the people's work is being done again - by the members of both parties.

Thanks to last night's upset victories, we're entering a refreshing time when bills will go forward and issues will receive a hearing: they will be discussed on the floor again -- and individual Senators will have a voice again.
You've been listening to Trump again. Biden has made it crystal clear that he opposes the 'defund the police' movement. That doesn't mean that law enforcement in many parts of this country don't need to have some of their practices and procedures changed.

Golly, its going to be hard to explain to democrat voters that demand we defund the police, that the only reason we didn't was because of the democrat in the white house.

 

[DaShuckster]

Golly, its going to be hard to explain to democrat voters that demand we defund the police, that the only reason we didn't was because of the democrat in the white house.

If you're going 'all-in' on the poker hand that democrats across the nation are 'demanding' we defund police, you're going broke my friend.

 

[chemmie]

If you're going 'all-in' on the poker hand that democrats across the nation are 'demanding' we defund police, you're going broke my friend.

The only thing the left is demanding from police is to stop killing unarmed black people. Not sure how the federal government can really get into that other than making public statements and demanding better training and oversight.

 

[Crazyhole]

If you're going 'all-in' on the poker hand that democrats across the nation are 'demanding' we defund police, you're going broke my friend.

There are enough single issue voters on the left, and this is one of them, that its going to be really hard to please them all and still remain moderate. Like you said, the party might fracture. And it will.

 

[Poolside Knight]

Why just a public option? Just make healthcare free. Who would oppose that?

Biden. His short term goal was to put in the money to make the Gold ACA premiums lower and possibly a Public Option if he got enough Senators on board.

 

[DaShuckster]

There are enough single issue voters on the left, and this is one of them, that its going to be really hard to please them all and still remain moderate. Like you said, the party might fracture. And it will.

Yep, it's a possibility. But, as I said, I believe the continuing vocal presence of Trump and his band of Trumpets will keep the more radical members of the left in check - at least for the short-term.

 

[Crazyhole]

Yep, it's a possibility. But, as I said, I believe the continuing vocal presence of Trump and his band of Trumpets will keep the more radical members of the left in check - at least for the short-term.

Wait what? Trump is going to keep the radical left in check? LMAO! Sorry man, the boogeyman is gone. Everything that happens in DC now is completely on the shoulders of the dems. Trump is only one vote now, just like you.

 

[fried-chicken]

I thought this comment deserved its own discussion thread:

Given what we've all just gone through, "not doing shit" actually doesn't sound too bad.

This is such a bad take.

We are as vunerable to a near coup as we are seeing because we haven't done shit. We need massive election rights legislation. We need massive antigerrymandering legislation. We need massive healthcare reform. We need massive election meddling legislation. We need massive climate change goals. We need massive police reform and community programs for minorities. We need massive higher education reform. We need massive drug law reform.

Basically we have a ton of shit to do and we need to do it 10 years ago.

 

[fried-chicken]

Wait what? Trump is going to keep the radical left in check? LMAO! Sorry man, the boogeyman is gone. Everything that happens in DC now is completely on the shoulders of the dems. Trump is only one vote now, just like you.

100% this. If the Democrats don't act now then it's on their shoulders.

 

[Crazyhole]

This is such a bad take.

We are as vunerable to a near coup as we are seeing because we haven't done shit. We need massive election rights legislation. We need massive antigerrymandering legislation. We need massive healthcare reform. We need massive election meddling legislation. We need massive climate change goals. We need massive police reform and community programs for minorities. We need massive higher education reform. We need massive drug law reform.

Basically we have a ton of shit to do and we need to do it 10 years ago.

What does anti-gerrymandering legislation look like? Do districts have to be square? Are rectangles ok?

 

[DaShuckster]

This is such a bad take.

We are as vunerable to a near coup as we are seeing because we haven't done shit. We need massive election rights legislation. We need massive antigerrymandering legislation. We need massive healthcare reform. We need massive election meddling legislation. We need massive climate change goals. We need massive police reform and community programs for minorities. We need massive higher education reform. We need massive drug law reform.

Basically we have a ton of shit to do and we need to do it 10 years ago.

You're right, FC. I can't disagree with anything you've laid out here. Clearly, my earlier take is a sign I'm suffering a bad case of Trump fatigue.

 

[DaShuckster]

What does anti-gerrymandering legislation look like? Do districts have to be square? Are rectangles ok?

How 'bout districts that choose their representatives rather than representatives that choose their districts?

 

[Crazyhole]

How 'bout districts that choose their representatives rather than representatives that choose their districts?

?????? Do you even know what gerrymandering is?

 

[fried-chicken]

You're right, FC. I can't disagree with anything you've laid out here. Clearly, my earlier take is a sign I'm suffering a bad case of Trump fatigue.

We all want to rest from this obviously but if we chill on it well lose the house in 2022. It's time to make the changes america has needed and keep the voters engaged

 

[DaShuckster]

?????? Do you even know what gerrymandering is?

Once upon a time, politicians had to convince voters of -- get this -- BOTH parties to win an election. The fine art of gerrymandering has resulted in politicians seeing how far right or left they need to twist in order to stay in office.

 

[fried-chicken]

What does anti-gerrymandering legislation look like? Do districts have to be square? Are rectangles ok?

It already exists in some areas. Acting like it's an impossible abstract concept just makes you look dumb. Research it on your own time.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

What does anti-gerrymandering legislation look like? Do districts have to be square? Are rectangles ok?

Well NC recently went through this if you want to research a specific instance. It was pretty ridiculous before

 

[Crazyhole]

Well NC recently went through this if you want to research a specific instance. It was pretty ridiculous before

Districts are always oddly shaped. I was just asking what the legislation would look like to determine whether a district is gerrymandered or just adjusted to people moving. It seems like its always going to be a moving target so I don't know how you determine whether it's legit or not.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Districts are always oddly shaped. I was just asking what the legislation would look like to determine whether a district is gerrymandered or just adjusted to people moving. It seems like its always going to be a moving target so I don't know how you determine whether it's legit or not.

Like I said, you can read into what Nc was forced to do if you are interested.