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Allegiant = scam in airline form

UCFKnight85

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May 6, 2003
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I've never flown this company but I read the near weekly Tampa Times articles on their aircraft needing emergency landings. Then my friend attempted to fly them from St Pete and experienced this:

Show up yesterday for flight. Wait for an hour. They announce cancellation of the flight due to "lack of aircraft". I can only assume this is because their maintenance is so shitty that their aircraft are routinely not air worthy, but how does an airline not have planes to fly routes?

He then spent over an hour on the phone trying to rebook. Booked a flight today way out of his way but OK, was going to try.

Shows up this morning - cancelled again. Reason was "maintenance issue". No rebooking options given, they had 1 single worker for 70 passengers, and he again had to call the number for a 1 hour wait.

I've heard from many people that they're notorious for cancelling flights for no reason and having no other options that day.
 
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I fly them several times a year. Just went to New Orleans 2 weeks ago. We've never had any issues, but they will cancel your flight with little notice. Sometimes they'll put you up for the night and fly you out the next day, but if there is no flight the next day you may have an issue.
 
We flew with them once a few years ago and I liked it. I would fly again, but cautiously, given all these reports I've seen of cancelling flights or maintenance issues. The plane were were on appeared better than the shitty Delta planes I was frequenting at the time. Sanford to Appleton, WI for like $160 pp/rt vs $400 pp/rt to somewhere else in WI.
 
I flew them a bunch a good 10-15 years ago as they fly direct in to Allentown where my family is from, but now that I travel a lot and have points/status with real airlines, I would never even think of flying them again.
 
I flew them a bunch a good 10-15 years ago as they fly direct in to Allentown where my family is from, but now that I travel a lot and have points/status with real airlines, I would never even think of flying them again.
I don't mind. We fly direct into Scranton or Allentown. Flying other airlines we've been stuck in Newark for 8 hours on one occasion. On another occasion we were stuck in Charlotte 4 hours, then flown to Philly, then flown to Binghamton. Requiring us to switch our rental car company to drive down.
 
With all the shit in the news about these assholes, why would anyone willingly choose to fly them? Other than the small airport thing, I can't see a single valid reason and I hope that they go BK soon.
 
Is it lack of aircraft or lack of pilots available? I knew a guy who flew for Allegiant and they were routinely had him on call when he was off to fill in.
 
With all the shit in the news about these assholes, why would anyone willingly choose to fly them? Other than the small airport thing, I can't see a single valid reason and I hope that they go BK soon.

He was going to Peoria and they fly directly there. Well, occasionally, when they feel like actually flying the route.

I wouldn't fly them under any circumstances. Everything I've heard about this airline is pure shit.
 
He was going to Peoria and they fly directly there. Well, occasionally, when they feel like actually flying the route.

I wouldn't fly them under any circumstances. Everything I've heard about this airline is pure shit.
Given all of the emergency landings, etc., shouldn't they be under investigation by the FAA? Hell, if the major airlines have 1/100 of the issues that Allegiant has had then they'd have all of their flights grounded (or at least their fleetwide aircraft of a particular type).
 
For all the safety incidents, not one disaster has happened. This looks and smells like the pilots union attempting to get their members inflated contracts. For the union it is, "give us what we want or we'll destroy your company."
 
Guys, I used to be a big Allegiant Air fan.
  • One (1), single type MD-80 series
  • Short legs, run their crews 7-8 hour/days, with 4-5 hours in flight, basically a part-time job -- flight crews only get paid when the door is shut
  • They saved money by contracting out gate workers to the local airport, didn't have a lot of the booking and logistical costs of other airlines
  • Even FAA Diamond rated maintenance crews at one point, they took those old MD-80 birds and took care of them
  • Yeah, sometimes they had problems, and that meant you were flying 3+ hours later as they had to fly an aircraft in, if not the next day
  • The pilot forums were very positive on Allegiant Air
  • They were the most profitable airline ... 10% margins even during the era of high fuel prices with those older MD-80s, unheard of -- e.g., Southwest was typically 2-3% at best during the high energy costs of just 5 years ago
That has all changed. Why? Simple ...
  • They got head of themselves and branched out to Hawaii and other destinations, with longer routes, lots of logistical issues they haven't solved
  • ETOPS requirements and longer routes couldn't be met by the MD-80 series. They bought the 757 for Hawaii, but then had to go with another type (long story, 757 is virtually impossible to find second-hand now)
  • Adding the A319/320 as a 3rd major type for non-Hawaii routes the MD-80 won't do. This along wouldn't be a bad move if they were going all A319 or all A320 and dropping the MD-80. But they're not, so ...
  • Their parts inventory was bad enough with just one type, and now they have three (3) with a total of five (5) variants, and they don't really have a traditional hub model or location
  • The longer routes started pushing their crews away from the 7-8 hour days with 4-5 hours in flight, to 12+ hour days with 7-8 hours in flight, not including maintenance delays -- where they don't get paid until the door is shut
  • The pilot forums are heavily filled with union talk, trying to address the non-sense that Gallagher et al. hasn't addressed -- and I think it's valid!
Gallagher was stupid. I always thought he learned his lessons from ValuJet, but he hasn't. I would not fly Allegiant today. I do not consider it safe. They literally got away from their niche. I should have known they were looking at doing stupid things when they flirted with flying out of MCO instead of SFB to compete with other carriers, thinking they'd get more people if they flew into MCO instead of SFB.

That said ...

The hub'n spoke model that the big airlines use has not addressed costs, in fact, it tends to be more costly than just direct flights for operations -- despite what most believed. But this is why they have been consolidating, and building multi-hub networks with acquisitions. Which is why we now have less than 5 major airlines. Yes! We're back to pre-deregulation monopolies!

Prices are going up as a result of reduced competition. Most people who fly big carriers do so for the mileage plans, and they clearly want to continue to cater to those type of fliers. Leaving ...

JetBlue or Southwest when it comes to direct routes, with "budget" options, along with other, small "budget" startups that come'n go.

JetBlue has major issues getting into some airports (e.g., Atlanta). That will continue.

Southwest is really the only "budget" option these days to go just about anywhere from MCO -- at least if you hit their "Wanna Get Away" flights 3-6 weeks out. But they are not as cheap as AirTran was, mainly because they absorbed AirTran to take out the competition. You'll sometimes get a better deal on major carriers when it's a competitive airport, but the consolidation of the main carriers has removed a lot of competition, especially anywhere near their major hubs.

BTW, I don't know about JetBlue, but Southwest has officially stopped growing. They have pushed back their 737-MAX order by over 5 years, and they were Boeing's launch customer for the MAX (no longer)! Southwest has about 50 more 737-800 models being delivered, which replaces their final 737-300 models that the FAA is making them stop flying. So now, in 2023 (instead of in 2017), they will get the 737-MAX, which is now timed with some of their very first 737-700 models hitting their maximum cycles. I.e., Southwest is not growing it's fleet and aircraft until at least 2028.

Prices will be going up as a result over the next 5, if not 10 years, including flying JetBlue and Southwest. Yes, even if gas stays cheap, the lack of competition, and the limited growth in the "budget" sector means we're looking at a full decade of stagnant competition.

I fully expect Allegiant Air to be either bankrupt, or undergo a radical changeover. Let's just hope it doesn't take a ValuJet like tragedy and resulting reverse takeover of another airline to change their name ... like ValuJet buying AirTran did.
 
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For all the safety incidents, not one disaster has happened.
Same could have been said for ValuJet. In all honesty, the ValuJet crash was not ValuJet's fault. But it just exposed their long-standing issues.

This looks and smells like the pilots union attempting to get their members inflated contracts. For the union it is, "give us what we want or we'll destroy your company."
I'd disagree. Gallagher was stupid and ruined a good business model. The pilots used to love the management and approach, and the maintenance on the MD-80s were excellent, despite the average aircraft being 17+ and then even 20+ years old.

Now they run their crews into the ground with the longer routes, and the delays only add to their long-days. They only get paid when that door is closed. That would piss me off too ... spending enough 3-4 hour delays before take-off.

Multiple aircraft types work for a charter airline. They do not work so well for a budget airline with fixed time tables. They really should have looked at standardizing on the A319 or A320 years ago, instead of the mess they are in now.

EDIT: It looks like they have made the move to change over the A320 as their single type by 2020, sans some of the A319 fleet. It's a very popular aircraft with European national carriers for continental flights, so there are enough becoming available as some of the carriers are contracting -- whether in used aircraft or picking up their options from AirBus.

I remember their first A320s were from Iberian (Spain's national carrier) several years back. Very quiet compared to most 737s and other A320s in the US from the same date of manufacture. EU noise requirements that the US has only caught up on in the last decade.
 
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The lunatic needs to get his feelings down on paper or a computer screen or he goes bat shit. It's a real thing for him combined with, no doubt, copious amounts of antidepressants and therapy. Surprised he's not on the no-fly list, and stuff.
Now that one made me laugh. ;)
 
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