Big Beer's plan to crush craft beer

[CommuterBob]

http://time.com/money/4073371/anheuser-busch-sabmiller-craft-beer/

With ABInBev merging with SABMiller, big beer is getting even bigger. Be very wary, beer lovers. They have a plan to destroy craft beer, including buying up distributors to own 2 tiers of the 3-tier network most states (including FL) require for alcohol sales. And some of those craft beer brands you love so much, like Goose Island and Golden Road are really owned by big beer already. Booo.

 

[cnsaguy]

Reuters reported this week that the U.S. Justice Department is currently conducting an investigation into allegations claiming that Anheuser-Busch InBev is violating antitrust regulations by purchasing distributors and only distributing its own products, while simultaneously using its size and power to pressure independent distributors to stay away from craft labels.

Not a fan of more government, but this is perfectly acceptable.

 

[SublimeKnight]

Everything pretty much tastes like Bud Light anyway*

 

[UCFKnight85]

I hear this and yet craft beer is more available and easier to find that ever. Even Publix has really good options for craft beer now and there are multiple brew-pub places in the area to frequent. Beyond that, there's Cigar City, 3 Daughters, Green Bench, St Pete Brewing, Coppertrail, 7venth Sun, etc where you can get beer directly from their store.

 

[HuffyCane]

Craft beer is no different than the CB radio, VCR, Tomoguchi, Glamour Shots, or any other lower middle class trend. Five years from now, you will be wondering why in the heck you were even interested in it.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Craft beer is no different than the CB radio, VCR, Tomoguchi, Glamour Shots, or any other lower middle class trend. Five years from now, you will be wondering why in the heck you were even interested in it.

So 5 years from now my taste buds will no longer desire a better tasting beer?

 

[HuffyCane]

You'll still want a good beer, you just won't expect 75 choices as the standard of what good beer is. I've run and owned bars pre and post craft beer. We pay out the fahzoo for inventory. That isn't sustainable. I can't tell you how many douchebags I've served who have walked up, glanced at the menu on the wall, announced that we don't have any good beer and looked surprised when I've pulled out a bottle of whatever it was they were telling their buddy that we didn't have to try impress on him we didn't have any good beer. I could take that same beer, put it on a menu with the Big 3 and Fat Tire, and put it in front of the same dude and he would still complain about the lack of good beer. Merchants, servers, and the public call these guys douche bags. Right now, it's a fad and you can make money off it, so the marketplace is cooperating. That won't always be the case. You don't go into a fine restaurant or even a wine bar with a minimum expectation on the wine list unless you fit into a very small elite clientele. You trust the place to narrow the choices to one to five selections based on price point, availability, and food pairing. You don't walk in and remark to every one at your table that the meal is ruined because they only have a house cab and not the Coppola Summer Pumpkin Cabernet Limited Edition with extra sperm. Bars and restaurants have about had enough of that crap and so has the public. It will fall out of fashion quickly.

Ten years ago every bar had some type of mojito on the menu. Not anymore. You can say it was because the public's tastes changed, but the real reason is places got tired of paying for the fresh produce, extra prep time and additional staff needed during peak periods. They will do the same with stocking 100 beers just to keep 30 spoiled white guys and their pumpkin puking girlfriends happy.

 

[chemmie]

You'll still want a good beer, you just won't expect 75 choices as the standard of what good beer is. I've run and owned bars pre and post craft beer. We pay out the fahzoo for inventory. That isn't sustainable. I can't tell you how many douchebags I've served who have walked up, glanced at the menu on the wall, announced that we don't have any good beer and looked surprised when I've pulled out a bottle of whatever it was they were telling their buddy that we didn't have to try impress on him we didn't have any good beer. I could take that same beer, put it on a menu with the Big 3 and Fat Tire, and put it in front of the same dude and he would still complain about the lack of good beer. Merchants, servers, and the public call these guys douche bags. Right now, it's a fad and you can make money off it, so the marketplace is cooperating. That won't always be the case. You don't go into a fine restaurant or even a wine bar with a minimum expectation on the wine list unless you fit into a very small elite clientele. You trust the place to narrow the choices to one to five selections based on price point, availability, and food pairing. You don't walk in and remark to every one at your table that the meal is ruined because they only have a house cab and not the Coppola Summer Pumpkin Cabernet Limited Edition with extra sperm. Bars and restaurants have about had enough of that crap and so has the public. It will fall out of fashion quickly.

Ten years ago every bar had some type of mojito on the menu. Not anymore. You can say it was because the public's tastes changed, but the real reason is places got tired of paying for the fresh produce, extra prep time and additional staff needed during peak periods. They will do the same with stocking 100 beers just to keep 30 spoiled white guys and their pumpkin puking girlfriends happy.

Spoken like the douchebag bar owner who still doesn't understand...

Just because you have the big 3, Fat Tire, and a few more "craft" beers (Kona, Magic Hat, Shock Top, and Widmer) the Bud distributor shoved on to your lines because they've been sitting in his warehouse for the last 8 months, doesn't mean you have good beers.

It isn't that hard to keep the vast majority of patrons happy, but you need to stop listening to the guy selling you shitty beer, and start listening to the customers ordering it. The customers don't want Pumpkin-Semen Beer, they want a good selection of styles, fresh beer, local beer, and clean lines. They want a knowledgeable bartender who can actually steer them in the right direction if you don't have that shitty Key West Sunset Wheat, and maybe get them to try something else that they normally wouldn't think of.

But, you'll still make your money serving $6 buckets of longneck vortex bottles, and terrible mojitos. There are plenty of other douchebags out there who still don't understand, and they'll keep coming back to you.

 

[chemmie]

The issue with "big beers plan to crush craft" is they still have the upper hand. They still have laws in place that favor them. They still have lobbyists and thousands upon thousands of dollars to pay off politicians. They still have the three-tier system and the distributors that they own, controlling the taps at most of your local bars.

and now, they are buying up craft breweries and will soon have a ton more buying power over limited ingredients.

There will be a consolidation of craft breweries in the future. It has grown too much, and there are far too many shitty ones who have popped up. But, the overall trend isn't going anywhere. American craft brewers are just starting to enter Europe and Asia, and those places are dying for craft beer just as much as we were a few years ago.

 

[HuffyCane]

^This is exactly what I am talking about. Notice I intentionally didnt mention what beer the various dbs asked about/complained we didnt have when we actually did. The example I had in mind when I typed the first message, (and there are countless others) was Founder's, within a week of its initial availability in Florida, universally considered to be one of the best craft beers available. However, this type of mentality assumed I didnt know what I was talking about, because that is really the service they are purchasing and chemmie is hawking here. The ability to feel superior, either because they have found a place that is completely empty but barely meets their self obsessed standards or because "only they know" what good beer tastes like and it isn't offered in this corporate big box, yada yada. It doesnt matter where they are or what beer they are actually drinking, it is just a vehicle to project self-importance masked as "understanding" to use a word from chemmies' post. I can assure you we employ too many bearded and tattooed self indulgent PhD candidates who know too much about beer and bicycles and fishing in Canada and the pot scene in southeast Asia. We also have a minority owner and a couple of other people working for us who brew their own stuff and travel around to the various conventions to stay abreast on the latest technology and breweries. We spent a fortune on the cooler and lines and continue to pay too much to professional services to clean not only the lines, but our interior. My car cost less than the unit we bought to clean and sterilize the glasses. After 15 years of law practice, I can assure you I drive a pretty nice car. And it is all a gdamn waste of profit margin to keep one out of 10 of our people happy. Who also are the people who inevitably complain that we aren't running a two for one deal like the college bar down the street.

 

[UCFKnight85]

You'll still want a good beer, you just won't expect 75 choices as the standard of what good beer is. I've run and owned bars pre and post craft beer. We pay out the fahzoo for inventory. That isn't sustainable. I can't tell you how many douchebags I've served who have walked up, glanced at the menu on the wall, announced that we don't have any good beer and looked surprised when I've pulled out a bottle of whatever it was they were telling their buddy that we didn't have to try impress on him we didn't have any good beer. I could take that same beer, put it on a menu with the Big 3 and Fat Tire, and put it in front of the same dude and he would still complain about the lack of good beer. Merchants, servers, and the public call these guys douche bags. Right now, it's a fad and you can make money off it, so the marketplace is cooperating. That won't always be the case. You don't go into a fine restaurant or even a wine bar with a minimum expectation on the wine list unless you fit into a very small elite clientele. You trust the place to narrow the choices to one to five selections based on price point, availability, and food pairing. You don't walk in and remark to every one at your table that the meal is ruined because they only have a house cab and not the Coppola Summer Pumpkin Cabernet Limited Edition with extra sperm. Bars and restaurants have about had enough of that crap and so has the public. It will fall out of fashion quickly.

Ten years ago every bar had some type of mojito on the menu. Not anymore. You can say it was because the public's tastes changed, but the real reason is places got tired of paying for the fresh produce, extra prep time and additional staff needed during peak periods. They will do the same with stocking 100 beers just to keep 30 spoiled white guys and their pumpkin puking girlfriends happy.

You seem to have missed the point.

When I go to "popular" bars/restaurants, I'm not expecting a full line up of 45 craft beers. I go to Courtside Grill all of the time; not because I can get any craft I want, but because it's a fun place to get a drink, eat and watch some games. It's also 2 minutes from my house.

I seek out craft beer spots because THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. I go to Brewer's Tasting Room, downtown to 3 Daughters or Ale and the Witch, Coopertrail in Ybor, Cigar City on Dale Mabry, of 7venth Sun in Dunedin. I go there specifically to get craft beer. And those places, as far as I can tell, are absolutely rocking with business.

Even places like WOB or Yard of Ale make it possible to pick up craft beer you typically wouldn't otherwise find.

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

Meh 7/10 beers I drink are of shit tier variety. Ibotta got me slamming $3.99 6ers of Kirin. Deal with it

 

[FearTheKnight]

^This is exactly what I am talking about. Notice I intentionally didnt mention what beer the various dbs asked about/complained we didnt have when we actually did. The example I had in mind when I typed the first message, (and there are countless others) was Founder's, within a week of its initial availability in Florida, universally considered to be one of the best craft beers available. However, this type of mentality assumed I didnt know what I was talking about, because that is really the service they are purchasing and chemmie is hawking here. The ability to feel superior, either because they have found a place that is completely empty but barely meets their self obsessed standards or because "only they know" what good beer tastes like and it isn't offered in this corporate big box, yada yada. It doesnt matter where they are or what beer they are actually drinking, it is just a vehicle to project self-importance masked as "understanding" to use a word from chemmies' post. I can assure you we employ too many bearded and tattooed self indulgent PhD candidates who know too much about beer and bicycles and fishing in Canada and the pot scene in southeast Asia. We also have a minority owner and a couple of other people working for us who brew their own stuff and travel around to the various conventions to stay abreast on the latest technology and breweries. We spent a fortune on the cooler and lines and continue to pay too much to professional services to clean not only the lines, but our interior. My car cost less than the unit we bought to clean and sterilize the glasses. After 15 years of law practice, I can assure you I drive a pretty nice car. And it is all a gdamn waste of profit margin to keep one out of 10 of our people happy. Who also are the people who inevitably complain that we aren't running a two for one deal like the college bar down the street.

Cleaning beer lines isn't that expensive, train your bartenders to do it. There's a difference between having a choice of 2-3 craft beers in between the 6 other identical pale light lagers and a full wall of taps. There will always be douche bags who complain that there isn't x or y craft beer but there are infinitely more who complain if you don't have indistinguishable macro lager z.

 

[Happy Hands]

^This is exactly what I am talking about. Notice I intentionally didnt mention what beer the various dbs asked about/complained we didnt have when we actually did. The example I had in mind when I typed the first message, (and there are countless others) was Founder's, within a week of its initial availability in Florida, universally considered to be one of the best craft beers available. However, this type of mentality assumed I didnt know what I was talking about, because that is really the service they are purchasing and chemmie is hawking here. The ability to feel superior, either because they have found a place that is completely empty but barely meets their self obsessed standards or because "only they know" what good beer tastes like and it isn't offered in this corporate big box, yada yada. It doesnt matter where they are or what beer they are actually drinking, it is just a vehicle to project self-importance masked as "understanding" to use a word from chemmies' post. I can assure you we employ too many bearded and tattooed self indulgent PhD candidates who know too much about beer and bicycles and fishing in Canada and the pot scene in southeast Asia. We also have a minority owner and a couple of other people working for us who brew their own stuff and travel around to the various conventions to stay abreast on the latest technology and breweries. We spent a fortune on the cooler and lines and continue to pay too much to professional services to clean not only the lines, but our interior. My car cost less than the unit we bought to clean and sterilize the glasses. After 15 years of law practice, I can assure you I drive a pretty nice car. And it is all a gdamn waste of profit margin to keep one out of 10 of our people happy. Who also are the people who inevitably complain that we aren't running a two for one deal like the college bar down the street.

But what about your bourbon, bro?

I like craft beer like every other semi-narcissistic man. However, as long as Yeungling or Sam Adams are available, I'm usually ok.

Atlanta has two really good beer bars (Brick Store and Porter). Those places are on the East side and are crawling with hipsters and beer snobs (even though the staff is pretty cool) and can be intimidating to someone that just wants to have a few beers and hang out. The collective insecurities of the rolled up jeans and ironic suspenders are judging your every move and beer choice.

 

[ReginaeUCF]

LoL. Craft Beer "a fad" that's the dumbest thing i have ever heard.
Americans, especially younger generations (under 35), are tired of the corporate bull shit you old fuddy-duddies created and are taking America back for the small business. 95% of the mass produced beers are virtually undrinkable.

 

[HuffyCane]

So is Coke and Pepsi compared to other soft drinks. You don't see an explosion of craft soft drinks, even though the market for the "younger generation" dollars is exponentially larger for soft drinks and that generation is supposedly less tolerant of their corporate kaka than the brewing industry. There are market and anticompetitive forces at play, but mostly it boils down to price point. When the quality and taste of mass marketed beers is raised and the price point on those beers is lowered, you will see the craft beers fall by wayside. People with the money to spend to pretend they are different (mostly suburban whites) will spend it for now, but not for long.

 

[ReginaeUCF]

So is Coke and Pepsi compared to other soft drinks. You don't see an explosion of craft soft drinks, even though the market for the "younger generation" dollars is exponentially larger for soft drinks and that generation is supposedly less tolerant of their corporate kaka than the brewing industry. There are market and anticompetitive forces at play, but mostly it boils down to price point. When the quality and taste of mass marketed beers is raised and the price point on those beers is lowered, you will see the craft beers fall by wayside. People with the money to spend to pretend they are different (mostly suburban whites) will spend it for now, but not for long.

That's because no "craft sodas" are making a better product then giving you outlets to purchase them. Big Beer "Craft brews" taste like big beer and lack any kind of inventiveness. When Big Beer has a brewery on the corner and will fill up a growler of a Malt Infused IPA then maybe this will happen.
Big Beer, however, will never make a one-off that is only available in a tasting room for the two weeks it takes for a loyal customer base to finish a barrell. And don't throw the hipster nonsense out there. When i sit in a local brewery every person is different. There is a table of hipster artists (sure), a high top of college co-eds, 4 guys att he bar after softball practice, young professionals lounging on the couches, a table of executives from local businesses, and a table of construciton workers. Craft beer is not a niche, it's not a fad, it's a batter product; period.

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

So is Coke and Pepsi compared to other soft drinks. You don't see an explosion of craft soft drinks, even though the market for the "younger generation" dollars is exponentially larger for soft drinks and that generation is supposedly less tolerant of their corporate kaka than the brewing industry. There are market and anticompetitive forces at play, but mostly it boils down to price point. When the quality and taste of mass marketed beers is raised and the price point on those beers is lowered, you will see the craft beers fall by wayside. People with the money to spend to pretend they are different (mostly suburban whites) will spend it for now, but not for long.

Not craft soda but I do see plenty of this La Croix soda water shit.

 

[chemmie]

So is Coke and Pepsi compared to other soft drinks. You don't see an explosion of craft soft drinks, even though the market for the "younger generation" dollars is exponentially larger for soft drinks and that generation is supposedly less tolerant of their corporate kaka than the brewing industry. There are market and anticompetitive forces at play, but mostly it boils down to price point. When the quality and taste of mass marketed beers is raised and the price point on those beers is lowered, you will see the craft beers fall by wayside. People with the money to spend to pretend they are different (mostly suburban whites) will spend it for now, but not for long.

Coke and Pepsi sales have been plummeting, too. So have McDonalds, Stouffer's, Olive Garden, and many others.

The more you keep blaming it on hipsters, the more you aren't understanding. Younger people are thinking more about how things are produced, where they are produced, and what is in the foods/drinks they consume. The days of frozen hamburgers and french fries, high fructose corn syrup, adjunct lagers, and mass amounts of preservatives are slowly going away, and being replaced by more locally sourced, sustainable, fresh, and better tasting products.

 

[chemmie]

Cleaning beer lines isn't that expensive, train your bartenders to do it. There's a difference between having a choice of 2-3 craft beers in between the 6 other identical pale light lagers and a full wall of taps. There will always be douche bags who complain that there isn't x or y craft beer but there are infinitely more who complain if you don't have indistinguishable macro lager z.

Cleaning beer lines is cheap and easy. But, Huffy is just showing us why he doesn't understand. Instead of learning about the products he sells, and having a staff who knows about the product he sells, he chooses to defer decisions to the distributor and another company to do the cleaning work for him. Taking the easy way out isn't the best way. But, he'll just go on blaming the douchebag hipsters while his sales drop, instead of figuring out why they are dropping even though he is spending more to try and salvage them.
It reminds me of the Blockbuster Video plan, when Netflix and streaming was just starting to destroy their model. Instead of changing their model, they insisted that the customers were the issue, not their model, and they would eventually come back to their model. We see how that worked out.

 

[SublimeKnight]

Coke and Pepsi sales have been plummeting, too. So have McDonalds, Stouffer's, Olive Garden, and many others.

The idea that Hop's had might actually be a lot more successful today than it was 15 years ago. I'm not sure they actual brewed the beer on site though, all the equipment might have been for show.

 

[HuffyCane]

There will always be a few niche craft beer/micro brew establishments. They existed for decades before the craft beer fad and will be around later.

I have partners to satisfy and they have friends. Some of those friends have a beer line cleaning businesses. Plus, I don't trust 25 year old "bar managers" to do QC work. I'd rather pay a small amount, have the guy on call for other types of repair work, and keep my silents happy. I've only lost money on one venue. I was young and trusting and I let my partner get too involved with a promoter and a manager's alternative sales enterprise - which eventually led to inventory disappearing for quick cash.

I've seen enough trends to come and go in the beverage area that I know it will subside. I wish I had a dollar for every person who told me we couldn't sell Jager chilled in the bottle covered in ice and that we had to buy the tap. Or I had to pay three times per ounce for Red Bull on the gun instead of the can. Or the blender drinks. Or craft cocktails. Or the special spherical bourbon ice. Or the speakeasys that have closed in the last five years. Or any of the other things "I didnt understand" about the bar business being told to me by people who have never balanced the books at a bar, much less invested money in one or a dozen.

Bars fail for some pretty basic reasons beyond bad location. Here's my Top 5:

1. Too high rent
2. Too high inventory
3. Filthy restrooms
4. Trendy Gimmick theme/copycat format
5. Employee theft/giveaways

People who want craft beer will go to those establishments and they will continue to do business if the people who own them know what they are doing. But the days of your average bar putting 25 different bottled beers on the menu to keep millennials and hipsters happy are numbered. You just can't balance the books over time in most low margin markets.

Keys to a successful bar:

1. Don't drink your own stuff and don't partner with people who will
2. Tell your staff to help themselves AFTER WORK to a safe amount of your highest margin product based on volume. This is usually the well drinks or draught light beer depending on the establishment. If they steal anything else, they are gone. Be careful who you hire and make sure they are paid well enough so they have no incentive to steal. Don't hire anyone with a day job or any other personal matter that makes their business more important than your business. Make sure your night manager knows which cab company to call that has a house account.
3. Make women feel safe in the establishment. This means keeping it spotless, including the bathrooms. Even dive bars, properly cleaned, will attract women, but a filthy bar is not necessarily a dive bar.
4. Don't let the regulars push you around or force you into business decisions.
5. Pay extra for good insurance and accountants. Close shop periodically to inventory and balance spreadsheets unannounced using third parties to audit the books just like a bank holiday.

That's it. Its all pretty simple. Get your customers drunk and your friends drunker. But its not a party. Or an art gallery. Or popularity contest.

 

[ProAttitude]

Will read again.*

 

[UCFKNIGHTS88]

I think the economy has something to dos it's the craft brewery and upscale drinks today. Economy shits again and everyone is back drinking bud light and Smirnoff.

 

[HuffyCane]

I think the economy has something to dos it's the craft brewery and upscale drinks today. Economy shits again and everyone is back drinking bud light and Smirnoff.

That definitely has a lot to do with it. After fracking imploded, half of the "artisanal toast" and "free trade smoothie" places in OKC went belly up in weeks.

 

[FearTheKnight]

That definitely has a lot to do with it. After fracking imploded, half of the "artisanal toast" and "free trade smoothie" places in OKC went belly up in weeks.

Except that the biggest expansion of craft beer came during the worst economic period in nearly a century...

 

[UCFhonors]

Survival of the fittest except for when it comes to fad beers.

 

[UCFhonors]

^This is exactly what I am talking about. Notice I intentionally didnt mention what beer the various dbs asked about/complained we didnt have when we actually did. The example I had in mind when I typed the first message, (and there are countless others) was Founder's, within a week of its initial availability in Florida, universally considered to be one of the best craft beers available. However, this type of mentality assumed I didnt know what I was talking about, because that is really the service they are purchasing and chemmie is hawking here. The ability to feel superior, either because they have found a place that is completely empty but barely meets their self obsessed standards or because "only they know" what good beer tastes like and it isn't offered in this corporate big box, yada yada. It doesnt matter where they are or what beer they are actually drinking, it is just a vehicle to project self-importance masked as "understanding" to use a word from chemmies' post. I can assure you we employ too many bearded and tattooed self indulgent PhD candidates who know too much about beer and bicycles and fishing in Canada and the pot scene in southeast Asia. We also have a minority owner and a couple of other people working for us who brew their own stuff and travel around to the various conventions to stay abreast on the latest technology and breweries. We spent a fortune on the cooler and lines and continue to pay too much to professional services to clean not only the lines, but our interior. My car cost less than the unit we bought to clean and sterilize the glasses. After 15 years of law practice, I can assure you I drive a pretty nice car. And it is all a gdamn waste of profit margin to keep one out of 10 of our people happy. Who also are the people who inevitably complain that we aren't running a two for one deal like the college bar down the street.

A+ post

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

you gents might like the ibotta app, https://ibotta.com/r/iwehwjb (net: $3.99 Kirin 6 pack & $9.99 blue moon 12er), tons of other great rebates as well

more in line w the thread yes i know those are both macro made (don't care taste appreciably better than their macro siblings after rebates & cost less ibotta rebates), the secret sauce is the alcohol, everything else is flavoring, see also coffee & caffiene

 

[anon_x731qvsnsyb8i]

Maybe they can regulate some of these micro-breweries a little better. I'm not a fan of big government either, but recently saw a expose on what some craft breweries actually put in their brews. You would be amazed. I laugh at the Organic food zealots at bars now sipping on craft brews with "who knows what" in them and preaching that you should eat organic food because it doesn't have all the additives. Meanwhile their liver gets scarred to shit. It's become a pretty funny sub-culture.

 

[anon_x731qvsnsyb8i]

Coke and Pepsi sales have been plummeting, too. So have McDonalds, Stouffer's, Olive Garden, and many others.

The more you keep blaming it on hipsters, the more you aren't understanding. Younger people are thinking more about how things are produced, where they are produced, and what is in the foods/drinks they consume. The days of frozen hamburgers and french fries, high fructose corn syrup, adjunct lagers, and mass amounts of preservatives are slowly going away, and being replaced by more locally sourced, sustainable, fresh, and better tasting products.

Some of those craft beers will KILL YOU. Actually...I'm pretty sure alcohol does that too, slowly...you know, the liver is a vital organ. But yeah, watch the additives...

It's stupid to worship beer just like it's stupid to worship marijuana.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

I can't see regulators approving the merger.

 

[FearTheKnight]

Maybe they can regulate some of these micro-breweries a little better. I'm not a fan of big government either, but recently saw a expose on what some craft breweries actually put in their brews. You would be amazed. I laugh at the Organic food zealots at bars now sipping on craft brews with "who knows what" in them and preaching that you should eat organic food because it doesn't have all the additives. Meanwhile their liver gets scarred to shit. It's become a pretty funny sub-culture.

Rather than try to argue I'll just tell you you're wrong and dumb.

 

[80'sKnight]

Maybe they can regulate some of these micro-breweries a little better. I'm not a fan of big government either, but recently saw a expose on what some craft breweries actually put in their brews. You would be amazed. I laugh at the Organic food zealots at bars now sipping on craft brews with "who knows what" in them and preaching that you should eat organic food because it doesn't have all the additives. Meanwhile their liver gets scarred to shit. It's become a pretty funny sub-culture.

I've read an expose on exposes, let's just say I wonder who paid for that expose?

 

[80'sKnight]

LoL. Craft Beer "a fad" that's the dumbest thing i have ever heard.
Americans, especially younger generations (under 35), are tired of the corporate bull shit you old fuddy-duddies created and are taking America back for the small business. 95% of the mass produced beers are virtually undrinkable.

Good luck, my great-uncle was involved with those who wanted to do that in the 1920s, my aunt was involved with that in the 60s. I guess it's time for that fad to come around again, maybe you'll have more luck not growing up (i.e. having responsibilities) than the previous generations did. I doubt it though, the economy will change the majority of you, as the 30s and 70s etc. did. As for the locally sourced garbage, with what little we truly know about nutrition this is a mistake. We're just now discovering how different plants grown in different environments contain important phyto/micro-nutrients, not to mention the longer your local veggies sit on the shelf the more nutrients it loses, flash-frozen at the source is the most nutritious veg, 2nd only to garden to plate.

 

[anon_x731qvsnsyb8i]

I've read an expose on exposes, let's just say I wonder who paid for that expose?

There was a beer company that was putting pressure-treated cedar in their beer.

I'm not dumb. Drinking in moderation...ok. But you are fool to think that alcohol does nothing to you. Organic alcohol is still alcohol and it scars your liver. That's a fact. If you want to put absolute faith in back-alley breweries...go on ahead. Reminds me of the speak-easies in the 20s that spiked thier brews with rubbing alcohol.

Snake venom is organic...but it's perfectly fine I guess...

 

[chemmie]

There was a beer company that was putting pressure-treated cedar in their beer.

I'm not dumb. Drinking in moderation...ok. But you are fool to think that alcohol does nothing to you. Organic alcohol is still alcohol and it scars your liver. That's a fact. If you want to put absolute faith in back-alley breweries...go on ahead. Reminds me of the speak-easies in the 20s that spiked thier brews with rubbing alcohol.

Snake venom is organic...but it's perfectly fine I guess...

No. You're dumb.

First, nobody is debating the dangers of alcohol.
Second, nobody is putting pressure treated wood in beer.
Third, no brewer is putting "who knows what" in their beer. 99.9% of the "additives" in beer are also natural, just like the water, hops, grain, and yeast.
Fourth, did you really say "back-alley breweries?"
Lastly, the only "expose" I've seen on beer was done by that dumb Food Babe broad, who was claiming propylene glycol was in beers, when it is actually used in a machine to chill beer, and would likely kill you if it were actually in beer.

I didn't even reply to your first statement, because it was that dumb. I can't even believe I'm taking the time to write to this one, because it is really that dumb. I'm not even trying to bust your chops this time, this is some really dumb shit you're writing.

 

[anon_x731qvsnsyb8i]

Craft anythinf is a fad. Craft beers were big in the y0

No. You're dumb.

First, nobody is debating the dangers of alcohol.
Second, nobody is putting pressure treated wood in beer.
Third, no brewer is putting "who knows what" in their beer. 99.9% of the "additives" in beer are also natural, just like the water, hops, grain, and yeast.
Fourth, did you really say "back-alley breweries?"
Lastly, the only "expose" I've seen on beer was done by that dumb Food Babe broad, who was claiming propylene glycol was in beers, when it is actually used in a machine to chill beer, and would likely kill you if it were actually in beer.

I didn't even reply to your first statement, because it was that dumb. I can't even believe I'm taking the time to write to this one, because it is really that dumb. I'm not even trying to bust your chops this time, this is some really dumb shit you're writing.

Buuuuurrrrrp!!!! I agree. Arguing about beer is dumb. I'm drinking a cider.

 

[crambone]

My corporate office is located in Grand Rapids, MI. Every time I go there I hit up Founder's. Nice place.

 

[cnsaguy]

My corporate office is located in Grand Rapids, MI. Every time I go there I hit up Founder's. Nice place.

Thinking about going to our Michigan game next year and hitting Founders, Bell's and Jolly Pumpkin while up there. Let's see if our new coach inspires excitement.