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Blow this staff up

Danny White hired Lance Leipold at Buffalo after a hugely successful stint at D3 Whitewater. He hired Frost after Frost was viewed as a critical leader of Oregon's successful offense.

He hired Heupel after Heupel offenses at OU and Mizzou put up big numbers against weaker defenses, not noticing how good defenses really put Heupel offense in check.

So 2 of 3 HFC hires by DW were "up and coming" coordinators and 1 was a wildly successful lower division HC.

The hire of RS as DC has not worked very well. The defenses have not been improved from Chinander's defenses (but Chinander's defenses were "good enough" with Frost's offense), and most notably, the Florida recruiting ("Shannon's strength") has had only sporadic success. Fickell is coming into our back yard (and Scott is coming into our living room) to take what he wants.

Kevin Sumlin is nothing without Kliff Kingsbury to develop his quarterbacks. Sumlin won't have KK here to develop his quarterbacks.

Muschamp might work, but I don't understand how "retread" suddenly became UCF's ticket to "success". In reality, it is not.

Danny is going to have to contend with growing apathy and reduced attendance/donations if he chases short-term financial "wins" (with retreads living off old buyouts) first and foremost.
Danny hired Heupel because one of his relatives worked for Missouri. The only other team interested in him was South Alabama.

I don’t want a retread unless his initials are GM
 
Danny White hired Lance Leipold at Buffalo after a hugely successful stint at D3 Whitewater. He hired Frost after Frost was viewed as a critical leader of Oregon's successful offense.

He hired Heupel after Heupel offenses at OU and Mizzou put up big numbers against weaker defenses, not noticing how good defenses really put Heupel offense in check.

So 2 of 3 HFC hires by DW were "up and coming" coordinators and 1 was a wildly successful lower division HC.

The hire of RS as DC has not worked very well. The defenses have not been improved from Chinander's defenses (but Chinander's defenses were "good enough" with Frost's offense), and most notably, the Florida recruiting ("Shannon's strength") has had only sporadic success. Fickell is coming into our back yard (and Scott is coming into our living room) to take what he wants.

Kevin Sumlin is nothing without Kliff Kingsbury to develop his quarterbacks. Sumlin won't have KK here to develop his quarterbacks.

Muschamp might work, but I don't understand how "retread" suddenly became UCF's ticket to "success". In reality, it is not.

Danny is going to have to contend with growing apathy and reduced attendance/donations if he chases short-term financial "wins" (with retreads living off old buyouts) first and foremost.

This was UCF's ticket to success, remember? When you are at a disadvantage, you must use your opponents(P5) strength ($$$) against them. P5 hires and fires coaches with huge buyouts. Then poach up and coming coaches (Frost) to satisfy their fanbases needs. It leads to chaos and programs with little to no direction. UCF's advantage over the past 15 years has been consistency and a clear plan in building a program. GOL had total control and he wasn't going anywhere. Now we must give DW total control because that's what is best for the program long term. He's the glue that holds this program together through coaching changes, and they will come and go because of UCF's success. He is also smart in using the fired P5 head coaches and their absurd buyouts in order upgrade the coaching staff.
 
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GOL had a proven track record as a head football coach. He was not a retread, per se. He did not Peter-Principle out at GT (good success there) nor ND, just that big lie on his resume.

DW is not a football coach.

Why was never-previously HC Frost allowed to select his DC but never-previously HC Heupel is not allowed to select his DC?

We'll see if these fired HCs/retreads will even come here as HC. Generally, fired P5 HCs resurface as P5 coordinators or G5 HCs. Generally, G5 HCs come from P5 coordinator positions (Frost, Heupel) or lower level HCs (Leipold).

Indeed, with GOL as a prime example, UCF can really benefit from an established P5 head coach in need of image-rehabilitation. But for the foreseeable future, we have our HC, and I don't see a P5 coach seeking image-rehabilitation as a G5 coordinator. We shall see.
 
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GOL had a proven track record as a head football coach. He was not a retread, per se. He did not Peter-Principle out at GT (good success there) nor ND, just that big lie on his resume.

DW is not a football coach.

Why was never-previously HC Frost allowed to select his DC but never-previously HC Heupel is not allowed to select his DC?

We'll see if these fired HCs/retreads will even come here as HC. Generally, fired P5 HCs resurface as P5 coordinators or G5 HCs. Generally, G5 HCs come from P5 coordinator positions (Frost, Heupel) or lower level HCs (Leipold).

Indeed, with GOL as a prime example, UCF can really benefit from an established P5 head coach in need of image-rehabilitation. But for the foreseeable future, we have our HC, and I don't see a P5 coach seeking image-rehabilitation as a G5 coordinator. We shall see.
Financially it doesn't make much sense to give full control of a $38M budget and 44% of your athletic department to someone who has no proven track record of running a program. HC Frost should be the anomaly in the sense that the program was being rebuilt from the ground up in 2015 (never want to do that again). In hindsight Frost should have never had the control of this program that he did. We were desperate for leadership, DW & SF provided that. JH had no experience running a football program either. It's a mistake to let a revolving door of coordinators take this program in various directions every 3-4 years.
 
Financially it doesn't make much sense to give full control of a $38M budget and 44% of your athletic department to someone who has no proven track record of running a program. HC Frost should be the anomaly in the sense that the program was being rebuilt from the ground up in 2015 (never want to do that again). In hindsight Frost should have never had the control of this program that he did. We were desperate for leadership, DW & SF provided that. JH had no experience running a football program either. It's a mistake to let a revolving door of coordinators take this program in various directions every 3-4 years.
DW seems to know college basketball better and got lucky with his first football hire.
 
Danny White hired Lance Leipold at Buffalo after a hugely successful stint at D3 Whitewater. He hired Frost after Frost was viewed as a critical leader of Oregon's successful offense.

He hired Heupel after Heupel offenses at OU and Mizzou put up big numbers against weaker defenses, not noticing how good defenses really put Heupel offense in check.

So 2 of 3 HFC hires by DW were "up and coming" coordinators and 1 was a wildly successful lower division HC.

The hire of RS as DC has not worked very well. The defenses have not been improved from Chinander's defenses (but Chinander's defenses were "good enough" with Frost's offense), and most notably, the Florida recruiting ("Shannon's strength") has had only sporadic success. Fickell is coming into our back yard (and Scott is coming into our living room) to take what he wants.

Kevin Sumlin is nothing without Kliff Kingsbury to develop his quarterbacks. Sumlin won't have KK here to develop his quarterbacks.

Muschamp might work, but I don't understand how "retread" suddenly became UCF's ticket to "success". In reality, it is not.

Danny is going to have to contend with growing apathy and reduced attendance/donations if he chases short-term financial "wins" (with retreads living off old buyouts) first and foremost.
Let's poach all the coaches for Coastal Carolina!
 
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Let's poach all the coaches for Coastal Carolina!
Their staff has questions just like everybody else. Go look up his record. He trended up at his first gig, down at his second, now up at his third. In 3 years as head coach and 1 more as OC at Coastal he only has 2020 as a winning record. The other three years he did not. Scott Frost's staff did an excellent job in 2017 and now can't win somewhere else. It's not simply a matter of wins and losses. There's always a lot of different moving parts to consider.
 
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Their staff has questions just like everybody else. Go look up his record. He trended up at his first gig, down at his second, now up at his third. In 3 years as head coach and 1 more as OC at Coastal he only has 2020 as a winning record. The other three years he did not. Scott Frost's staff did an excellent job in 2017 and now can't win somewhere else. It's not simply a matter of wins and losses. There's always a lot of different moving parts to consider.
Then go get young and upcoming coaches and load them on this staff. Not useless old ****s like Martinez and ellerbee or complete idiots like Corey Bell. Cause you talk about trending down this horrific staff is in a nosedive.
 
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Let’s go get Newland Isaacs or Willy Korn since their in Orlando. Move Golesh to just te coach, get isaacs/korn and Kevin Smith and let them call plays
 
Their staff has questions just like everybody else. Go look up his record. He trended up at his first gig, down at his second, now up at his third. In 3 years as head coach and 1 more as OC at Coastal he only has 2020 as a winning record. The other three years he did not. Scott Frost's staff did an excellent job in 2017 and now can't win somewhere else. It's not simply a matter of wins and losses. There's always a lot of different moving parts to consider.
Well of course there are.
 
Frost caught lightning in a bottle. He has done nothing since his great season to say he is more than mediocre.
Disagree with him being mediocre. I think it will be difficult for many coaches who would go to UN
 
Ok I get that everyone is going to say that we can’t because of covid. However, if you bring 90% of this staff back then you will destroy interest in the program for at least a year. These games kill enthusiasm and recruiting. Shannon, Martinez, Ellerbee, Wyatt, and Bell are too old school in their approach. Ellerbee is just Heupel’s yes man. They are terrible talent evaluators. Blow it all up and bring in some new philosophies and new ideas. If Heupel doesn’t like tell him it’s either make significant changes or quit.

I agree with most of your post but there's nothing anyone can do to force Heupel to make any changes. DW gave Heupel a big contract and we can't afford to buy him out.

Heupel will Heup whether we like it or not.
 
I say we get a Delorean, go back in time, run onto the field at the USF game in 2018 and tackle KZ before he can get hurt. If not, then keep going back in time to re-live 2017, Scott Frost's only winning season as a head coach. Only this time we will not bitch about Chin's ability to field a good defense, or why we keep running AK up the middle. We will know in advance that we are going to have a perfect season and feel comfortable and safe and perfectly content.
 
I say we get a Delorean, go back in time, run onto the field at the USF game in 2018 and tackle KZ before he can get hurt. If not, then keep going back in time to re-live 2017, Scott Frost's only winning season as a head coach. Only this time we will not bitch about Chin's ability to field a good defense, or why we keep running AK up the middle. We will know in advance that we are going to have a perfect season and feel comfortable and safe and perfectly content.
Yeah people forget how much we ripped on frost for game management and play calling as well. Between not playing situational football and letting the clock run down, or awful tackling, there were plenty of criticisms.
 
Yeah people forget how much we ripped on frost for game management and play calling as well. Between not playing situational football and letting the clock run down, or awful tackling, there were plenty of criticisms.
No one remembers because the End justifies the means.
 
Yeah people forget how much we ripped on frost for game management and play calling as well. Between not playing situational football and letting the clock run down, or awful tackling, there were plenty of criticisms.
Honestly, I don't remember bitching much at all about Scott Frost's play calling. I loved Frost's play calling. Now Hueple's play calling YES!, I freak out and bitch a lot.
 
Speaking of other coaches that need to be fired and staff blown up....yikes:
“Kliff Kingsbury has been the head football coach of football teams with Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes, and Kyler Murray over the last 8 years and has never (and I mean never) won more than 8 games in a season.”

This cat is a great salesman as well. Should partner up with Taggart and Strong, buy some land, and sell some cars.
 
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Speaking of other coaches that need to be fired and staff blown up....yikes:
“Kliff Kingsbury has been the head football coach of football teams with Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes, and Kyler Murray over the last 8 years and has never (and I mean never) won more than 8 games in a season.”

This cat is a great salesman as well. Should partner up with Taggart and Strong, buy some land, and sell some cars.
I think he was coaching at a basketball school when he had Baker and Mahomes and he now just barely missed the playoffs in the NFL with Kyler (maybe because Kyler was hurt in the final game). Let's also note, Kyler is like an average NFL QB.
 
I think he was coaching at a basketball school when he had Baker and Mahomes and he now just barely missed the playoffs in the NFL with Kyler (maybe because Kyler was hurt in the final game). Let's also note, Kyler is like an average NFL QB.
He’s been hurt the last month and a half. Was above average until then.
 
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Heup just needs to eat a little humble bread on the offensive side of the ball and admit that the way he called plays under Frost's old system with the team in 2018 had better winning results than 2019 and 2020 play calling. If he is willing to grow and modify what he's doing, he'll get better results. His "balls to the wall" 4 WR set most of the time to throw a bomb or just run a play quickly isn't beating the top competition for 60 minute games (scoring is too sporatic and it produces very few long drives).

I'm surprised that Shannon hasn't quit or complained knowing the pressure this puts on the defense. Only thing Shannon can do with Heup offense at this point is get defense into 3-4-4 formation with first 2 groups (DLs and LBs) rotating often to handle time on the field.
 
Ok I get that everyone is going to say that we can’t because of covid. However, if you bring 90% of this staff back then you will destroy interest in the program for at least a year. These games kill enthusiasm and recruiting. Shannon, Martinez, Ellerbee, Wyatt, and Bell are too old school in their approach. Ellerbee is just Heupel’s yes man. They are terrible talent evaluators. Blow it all up and bring in some new philosophies and new ideas. If Heupel doesn’t like tell him it’s either make significant changes or quit.
I don’t understand why you are not the Head Coach. Did you even bother to interview when it was open? You are the smartest person on the internet in your own minds eye. I support you 100%. Rock on super smart college coach internet guy. !!!!!! But if you lose one game next year or call one play that doesn’t work. We will all start booing you and talking behind your back on the internet.
 
Heup just needs to eat a little humble bread on the offensive side of the ball and admit that the way he called plays under Frost's old system with the team in 2018 had better winning results than 2019 and 2020 play calling. If he is willing to grow and modify what he's doing, he'll get better results. His "balls to the wall" 4 WR set most of the time to throw a bomb or just run a play quickly isn't beating the top competition for 60 minute games (scoring is too sporatic and it produces very few long drives).

I'm surprised that Shannon hasn't quit or complained knowing the pressure this puts on the defense. Only thing Shannon can do with Heup offense at this point is get defense into 3-4-4 formation with first 2 groups (DLs and LBs) rotating often to handle time on the field.
KV82...........you're right on brutha! Change the play calling to CREATIVE and we win at least 2 more games last year! IMHO
 
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KV82...........you're right on brutha! Change the play calling to CREATIVE and we win at least 2 more games last year! IMHO
Or the defense is ranked #70-#80 instead of #124 (or whatever they finished). Wouldn’t have had to change anything on the offensive side of the ball if that was the case but I get your sentiment. Everyone is always hoping their staff changes what they do but 9 out of 10 times they don’t.
 
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