CCW holder in Missouri stops mass murder at Wal Mart

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by UCFKnight85, Aug 9, 2019.

  1. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
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  2. beelit47

    beelit47 Five-Star Recruit
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    But orange man bad. Guns bad. Racist
     
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  3. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    but i thought good guys with guns didnt exist?

    i know this wont mean anything to fried chicken because no one died
     
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  4. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
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    People on the left literally deny this ever happens
     
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  5. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    2.5 million defensive gun uses like that every year. we can thank obama and his executive order to have the gov do research on gun violence and then pretended like it never happened because he didnt like the results.
     
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  6. chemmie

    chemmie Todd's Tiki Bar
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    This makes everything better.
     
  7. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
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    Given your status as repugnant human, I am sure you would have preferred if this guy killed scores more people so you can go on about how right you are and how your stance on firearms is once again vindicated.

    How awful for you to read that a legally armed citizen stopped this guy.
     
  8. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    you are right, that ccw guy made it better for a lot of people in that walmart missouri
     
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  9. Cubs79

    Cubs79 Bronze Knight
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    I have seen this passed around trying to play on the "gun guy with a gun narrative". But, there are several problems with that. One, the good guy stopped him after he had alread exited Walmart. If you read the story, it appears he was walking around Walmart even pushing a shopping cart, and recording hmself, but never attempted to shoot anyone, he just freaked everyone out. At this point we dont know why he didnt shoot anyone. Was he intending on it but chickened out? Or was he just carrying a gun but had no intention? We dont know yet and the latest I have read police arent sure of his motives.

    The second problem, is Missouri is an open carry state, as long as the gun isnt carried in a threatening manner. Was he threatening people? The stories dont sound as if he was as of now. So the point, if you are for open carry, then how are you also for arresting someone for carrying? It seems like a contradiction.

    And this isnt to take nothing from the guy who stopped him. Obviously he had some balls and stepped up, but based on how this story reads I am unsure how people who are for open carry can justify this guy being arrested. At least at this point, more could come out obviously, but the story right now is he was heavily armed but doesnt appear to have made any effort or indication of shooting anyone.
     
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  10. sk8knight

    sk8knight Golden Knight
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    Pulling the fire alarm cleared the store but is that a good thing. Most times people mass together after the exit the building, which actually makes them better targets. If this idiot was still contemplating murder, he wouldn’t have had a better chance. The firefighter ended that possibility, so yes, he neutralized any remaining potential threat.
     
  11. Cubs79

    Cubs79 Bronze Knight
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    Im not talking about the firefighter, I dont blame him at all for what he did. And, no matter what the kids intentions were, at the very least he is a complete moron, so Im not defending him either.

    I am just asking the question. If someone is for open carry, open carry is legal in the state (which in this case it was), what is the basis for arresting him? The stories I have read dont indicate he was doing anything but walking around pushing a cart and videoing, which happens pretty frequently. It just seems like a contradiction for someone to be for open carry, but be ok arresting someone who is open carrying.

    And as I mentioned earlier, I am basing this off the info we have now, if/when more comes out I might certainly agree he should have been arrested, but what I am reading right now I am unsure on what basis he was arrested.
     
  12. sk8knight

    sk8knight Golden Knight
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    Cubs, the question of why the kid was arrested is a good one. Even in an open carry state, if you display the weapon (or even have a weapon on you) and then assume a threatening posture or actually make threats, you will most likely be violating the law. In addition, I guess there are disturbing the peace and other laws that you may run afoul of depending upon your actions and how you respond to law enforcement. Context matters; if he does this 2 weeks ago maybe nothing happens. Worst case then is that a police officer asks him to put the rifle away and don't carry it like that. But doing it today in the context of the recent events may contribute to his being arrested. They can always not charge him in the end.
     
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  13. Cubs79

    Cubs79 Bronze Knight
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    Honestly, if this goes to trial I think it could end up being a really intresting case. Because, and again I am basing this off the information we have as of now, it almost seems like he was arrested for nothing more than the people who saw him were panicked. In light of recent events that is certainly understandable that people were panicked, but I also dont see how it could be illegal unless he was actually doing something threatening. Which at this point, I havent seen anything indicating he was doing anything like that.

    This has always been an issue I have had with open carry. How are we supposed to decipher between the good guys with guns and bad guys with guns? Unless he was threatening people, then to me it seems he should have been given the benefit of the doubt as also being a good guy with a gun. Again, something more could come out, but as of now, and with the people running with this story as a good guy stopped a bad guy, I am just unclear exactly what we are basing he was a bad guy on.
     
  14. fabknight

    fabknight Diamond Knight
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    This. This. This. After a couple of Jack Daniel's on the rocks, this just made me laugh my ass off. I appreciate the statement.
     
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  15. GatorBull325

    GatorBull325 Three-Star Recruit
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    Open carry laws are 4 white people. Blacks and Hispanics get shot onsite. This guy was holding a toy gun by the barrel, not even the finger on the trigger and was MURDERED by a cop in Walmart immediately. Didnt even ask him 2 put the gun down that he wasnt wven pointing at anybody. Same with Tamir Rice. Shot that 12 year old boy within 2 seconds of getting out of the car.

    Watch "Cops kill man at Walmart carrying a BB gun" on YouTube

    Here is a video of a Black man with LEGAL CONCEALED weapon permit walking into Walmart and getting attacked by 2 white guys. Why even bother trying 2 "open carry" when it doesnt pertain 2 minorities?

    Watch "Surveillance video shows man attacking concealed carrier" on YouTube
     
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  16. HuffyCane

    HuffyCane Golden Knight
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    California was an open carry state until the Black Panthers carried unloaded shotguns to a press conference on the steps of the state Capitol. California quickly banned open carry and other states rushed to follow.
     
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  17. GatorBull325

    GatorBull325 Three-Star Recruit
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    lol Society gets scared when Black men have guns which is why I never suppprt gun bans and dont trust all proposed gun laws, b/c the 1st group of people that will lose gun rights are minorities, and we need our guns in case the govt tries 2 bring back Jim Crow laws.
     
  18. sk8knight

    sk8knight Golden Knight
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    You’re conflating the two very different and separate events to try to form the basis of a racism argument. In the first, police are responding to what they think is an armed gunman who has been threatening people by pointing the weapon (one of those scary assault looking weapons) at them. The fact that it was a toy is irrelevant because it appeared to be a real weapon. There’s no evidence that race played any part in the police’s actions. Procedures may be a different story though. When responding to a potential active shooter, how should they handle the situation? Should they try to talk to the guy? Maybe. But then they potentially put others at risk if he opens fire. Is that acceptable?

    The other one may be racism. Depends on those two non-police people.
     
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  19. GatorBull325

    GatorBull325 Three-Star Recruit
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    Look at the video, he wasnt even holding the gun in a threatening manner. The cop shot him IMMEDIATELY. And there are plenty of WHITE active shooters that have been PEACEFULLY arrested. Same with the 12 year old holding a BB gun. The cop shot him within 2 SECONDS of getting out of his car. If a Black man carries a gun the cops will be called on him and the cops will treat him like a criminal. Open Carry laws only apply 2 Whites. Me personally I wouldnt open carry a gun b/c Im scared somebody will call the cops on me or a scary cop may shoot me.
     
  20. sk8knight

    sk8knight Golden Knight
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    You’re just assuming that race had anything to do with it. You also seem to think that cops should just let someone that they are responding to as a possible active shooter point his weapon at someone before they shoot. That basically means they’ll let him shoot at someone before they can take him down. What if you’re that someone? Or your wife, daughter, or son? Are you ready to take that bullet because someone decided that police can only neutralize a threat after they’ve used deadly force?

    You also seem to think that it takes forever for someone to point a gun and kill you. Or that they announce their intentions like in the movies. IRL, that stuff happens almost instantly. Police officers are not soldiers and they don’t deal with people pointing guns at them every day and they can’t train every day to distinguish the difference between a real gun and a toy that looks just like a real gun.

    As for this guy, it’s tragic. He was walking through Walmart carrying this gun as if it were a real gun talking on the phone. Someone decides to call 911 on him because they feel like it’s a weird situation and they embellish the details. Cops respond to what they think is a deadly threat with deadly force. It’s horrible.

    BTW, cops kill more white people than black people.
     
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  21. Cubs79

    Cubs79 Bronze Knight
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    I think that is a very dangerous mindset. Cops should most certainly verifty what is going on before they start shooting at someone. Especially in this day and age when people call the cops for some really stupid reasons.

    This is also why open carry is so damn stupid though. If someone is for open carry, then you then can't also think it is also ok for cops to shoot people for opening carrying. THis cant be a both ways situation. Either guns can be openly carried in public or they cant. But if they are, then someone open carrying shouldnt be treated as a criminal to the point of potentially being shot, for doing something the law allows.
     
    21 Cubs79, Aug 18, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  22. sk8knight

    sk8knight Golden Knight
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    Like I said, there may be some procedural things here to look at. But holding the gun in your hand by anything close to the trigger where it can be employed almost instantly is different than open carrying with the gun sling over your shoulder or in a holster. Context and situation matter, in both directions. But this is far different than your misrepresentation of this as cops killing a black man because he was black.
     
  23. Cubs79

    Cubs79 Bronze Knight
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    My misrepresentation of cops killing him because he was black? I didnt say that so not sure why you would make that claim.

    It isnt procedural things. Just like with the kid in MO, people freaked out over something that was legal, only in this case someone was killed over it. We either accept guns in society or we dont but we cant have this double standard where open carry is ok, as long as you dont scare anyone. But if you do scare someone and they call the police then it is your fault, even though you werent breaking the law, so you get whats coming to you because someones feeling of being scared apparently supercedes the law, or something.
     
  24. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
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    Hey look I agree with you. I think open carry is very dumb and a lot of pro gun people believe that as well. Especially given that if a bad guy goes in somewhere to cause harm, open carry makes it really easy to identify who poses an issue for you as a legally armed citizen.

    And right or wrong, firearms make a lot of people nervous. I get it. I don’t want to have everyone around me at Publix freaking out when I’m grabbing my veggies with a 9mm on my hip.

    Concealed carry makes the most sense IMO

    And this dick in Wal Mart was lucky he didn’t suffer for being a jackass
     
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  25. sk8knight

    sk8knight Golden Knight
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    Sorry, it was GatorBull, not you. My mistake.
     
  26. Cubs79

    Cubs79 Bronze Knight
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    No problem, it happens.
     
  27. Cubs79

    Cubs79 Bronze Knight
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    A lot of people dont agree with us though, for some reason. To me this, is a very sensible form of gun control that rational people should agree on, but for some reason a lot of states dont.
     
  28. GatorBull325

    GatorBull325 Three-Star Recruit
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    And? I am against police brutality and corruption no matter who the victim is. Thank God groups like Black Lives Matter are here to combat police injustice and brutality.....it seems to benefit Blacks and White people, especially since White people are victims too. :)
     
  29. sk8knight

    sk8knight Golden Knight
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    List some specific places and policies that BLM has inspired that actually benefits the communities they claim to help. I’ll even help you with body cams. Although, if you do any real research on their effect, they are actually aiding police far more than BLM would ever think possible.

    As for the rest, your prism of viewing everything as a racial issue clouds your ability to see truth. Your lack of self-awareness obstructs your ability to change. You live in a prison of your own beliefs and will be a truly sad individual until you find a way to break out of your own confinement. I feel real sorry for you, because you live in the greatest country in the world at the time of man’s greatest achievement and yet you see nothing but failure and injustice. How horrible it must be for you.
     
  30. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    ive never heard of a blm rally in the heart of the chicago ghettos. odd
     
  31. UCFBS

    UCFBS Diamond Knight
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    ^^^ Yep
     

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