China's high-speed train transit blows the U.S. out of the water

[Brandon]

To use a local example, they couldn't even connect SunRail to the airport (at least not yet).

==

I rode China’s superfast bullet train that could go from New York to Chicago in 4.5 hours — and it shows how far behind the US really is

• China has the largest high-speed railway in the world, with 15,500 miles of track and most major cities covered by the network.
• I recently took China’s fastest “G” train from Beijing to the northwestern city of Xi’an, which cuts an 11-hour journey – roughly the distance between New York and Chicago – to 4.5 hours.
• I found the experience delightful, with relatively cheap tickets, painless security, comfortable seats, air-conditioned cabins, and plenty of legroom.
• It left me thinking about how far behind US infrastructure has become, when most comparable journeys still require expensive and tiring air travel.

https://www.businessinsider.sg/china-bullet-train-speed-map-photos-tour-2018-5/

 

[UCFKnight85]

A person can easily and relatively cheaply fly from NY to Chicago and it won’t tske 4.5 hours. It will take roughly 2 hours.

People tend to forget this when they’re slobbering over communist infrastructure that isn’t concerned with market forces. China has a shit air industry that can’t service the growing number of cities just now riding out of poverty (with millions upon millions still living in true poverty in central China)

 

[sk8knight]

A person can easily and relatively cheaply fly from NY to Chicago and it won’t tske 4.5 hours. It will take roughly 2 hours.

People tend to forget this when they’re slobbering over communist infrastructure that isn’t concerned with market forces. China has a shit air industry that can’t service the growing number of cities just now riding out of poverty (with millions upon millions still living in true poverty in central China)

I take the bullet train from Seoul to Daegu and it is a much better trip than any air leg of similar distance. You show up 15 minutes before the train leaves and you don’t have to go through a TSA smoke and mirrors show. On the train, the ride is super smooth with no turbulence. The seats are bigger than most planes, even in Korea where stuff is often a bit smaller than normal size. You have to wear your seat belt when seated but there is no time when you cannot get up and go to the bathroom. Which is super important if you spent the night before at a Korean baseball game followed by an itaewon pub crawl.

The train only does 300 km/h so not as fast as an airplane but there are some definite positives over air travel.

 

[UCFKnightfan08]

The problem with air travel is the extra time you don't factor in. Two hour flight but parking, shuttle to the terminal, security, waiting at the gate, etc. Some of that still applies to trains but generally a 2 hour flight is still 3-4 of actual time.

 

[bqknight]

A person can easily and relatively cheaply fly from NY to Chicago and it won’t tske 4.5 hours. It will take roughly 2 hours.

People tend to forget this when they’re slobbering over communist infrastructure that isn’t concerned with market forces. China has a shit air industry that can’t service the growing number of cities just now riding out of poverty (with millions upon millions still living in true poverty in central China)

America's infrastructure is becoming massively outdated. Pretty much everyone agrees on that.

Problem is, no one is willing to spend the money to fix it.

 

[UCFKnight85]

America's infrastructure is becoming massively outdated. Pretty much everyone agrees on that.

Problem is, no one is willing to spend the money to fix it.

Fixing infrastructure is not the same as dumping billions of dollars into high speed rail that will suck money every single year.

Go ask California how that awesome HSR is going for them. Massively behind schedule, massively over budget, and the business case for building it gets worse every year. If California weren’t such a raging blue state, the Governor and everyone associated wiTh him would be voted out for fraudulently leading taxpayers into such a giant money pit.

 

[bqknight]

Fixing infrastructure is not the same as dumping billions of dollars into high speed rail that will suck money every single year.

I don't necessarily disagree with you there. For whatever reason, HSR just doesn't seem to want to work here, although I wish it would.

I'd love a true HSR from Orlando to Miami. I think it would benefit both cities massively. Brightline looks to be a big ole pile of so far though (it's not TRUE HSR either). Guess we'll see.

 

[chemmie]

LOL @ 85. Even in the face of an article that contradicts his beliefs with facts, he still believes whatever he wants to believe.

China's rail system destroys, is growing at a ridiculous rate, and is more efficient than anything on U.S. soil.

Relative to the rest of the civilized world, the U.S. has very little to show for our tax dollars. Poor education, poor infrastructure, poor health care at outrageous costs, poor veterans benefits... but our military is an engorged tumescence and our corporations receive billions upon billions in handouts.

 

[chemmie]

I don't necessarily disagree with you there. For whatever reason, HSR just doesn't seem to want to work here, although I wish it would.

I'd love a true HSR from Orlando to Miami. I think it would benefit both cities massively. Brightline looks to be a big ole pile of so far though (it's not TRUE HSR either). Guess we'll see.

Rail doesn't work here because our cities and towns were designed around the automobile. Unless you're in NYC, Chicago, Boston, Portland, San Francisco, or Washington D.C., you MUST own a car. Throughout much of the world, cities and towns were designed prior to the invention of the automobile. They are compact, and easy to get around on foot or on bike. On top of that, the transit in these places is often much better even after the rails (busses, trams, subways, etc.)

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

LOL @ 85. Even in the face of an article that contradicts his beliefs with facts, he still believes whatever he wants to believe.

China's rail system destroys, is growing at a ridiculous rate, and is more efficient than anything on U.S. soil.

Relative to the rest of the civilized world, the U.S. has very little to show for our tax dollars. Poor education, poor infrastructure, poor health care at outrageous costs, poor veterans benefits... but our military is an engorged tumescence and our corporations receive billions upon billions in handouts.

Yeah, give them more money. That'll fix it.

Trains just don't make sense in the US. Everyone is too spread out for them to be efficient.

 

[Poolside Knight]

I don't necessarily disagree with you there. For whatever reason, HSR just doesn't seem to want to work here, although I wish it would.

I'd love a true HSR from Orlando to Miami. I think it would benefit both cities massively. Brightline looks to be a big ole pile of so far though (it's not TRUE HSR either). Guess we'll see.

Orlando to Miami made much more sense than Orlando-Tampa that Scott scrapped. Most foreign tourists prefer Miami and Orlando over Tampa so I think it would have gotten steady crowds of tourists planning a 2 stop trip to South Florida beaches then the Theme Parks in Orlando.

Sun Rail not being able to connect near the UCF campus sucks, especially with the Downtown Campus on the way it would have been good for Orlando & UCF

 

[NinjaKnight]

A person can easily and relatively cheaply fly from NY to Chicago and it won’t tske 4.5 hours. It will take roughly 2 hours.

People tend to forget this when they’re slobbering over communist infrastructure that isn’t concerned with market forces. China has a shit air industry that can’t service the growing number of cities just now riding out of poverty (with millions upon millions still living in true poverty in central China)

I honestly don't know if you are being purposefully deceitful at this point, or you actually think it only takes 2 hours to get from Chicago to LA. You do realize everyone here knows you have to add a minimum of 3 hours for parking at a major airline/TSA bullshit/ etc.

 

[Deuce511]

A person can easily and relatively cheaply fly from NY to Chicago and it won’t tske 4.5 hours. It will take roughly 2 hours.

People tend to forget this when they’re slobbering over communist infrastructure that isn’t concerned with market forces. China has a shit air industry that can’t service the growing number of cities just now riding out of poverty (with millions upon millions still living in true poverty in central China)

After security, taxing and all the other BS that goes into flying, it’s probably close in total time spent. Plus I’m guessing the train is cheaper.

 

[sk8knight]

Rail doesn't work here because our cities and towns were designed around the automobile. Unless you're in NYC, Chicago, Boston, Portland, San Francisco, or Washington D.C., you MUST own a car. Throughout much of the world, cities and towns were designed prior to the invention of the automobile. They are compact, and easy to get around on foot or on bike. On top of that, the transit in these places is often much better even after the rails (busses, trams, subways, etc.)

I have to agree with chemmie here. Even if you built a great rail system, you’re lacking the rest of the systems to make public transportation a feasible means of regular transportation.

HSR is different than local public transportation though. It would be a direct replacement for greyhound/airlines.

 

[Knight_Light]

I don't necessarily disagree with you there. For whatever reason, HSR just doesn't seem to want to work here, although I wish it would.

I'd love a true HSR from Orlando to Miami. I think it would benefit both cities massively. Brightline looks to be a big ole pile of so far though (it's not TRUE HSR either). Guess we'll see.

Rail doesn't work here because our cities and towns were designed around the automobile. Unless you're in NYC, Chicago, Boston, Portland, San Francisco, or Washington D.C., you MUST own a car. Throughout much of the world, cities and towns were designed prior to the invention of the automobile. They are compact, and easy to get around on foot or on bike. On top of that, the transit in these places is often much better even after the rails (busses, trams, subways, etc.)

Also, anyone that has traveled in Europe knows that most of the large rail stations are in downtown/city centers..near work CBD's and high density housing. Zero need to travel 30-50 mins to go to an airport and then the hassle of flying.

Also, a lot more routes per hr too with rail (regular or he) then plane.

 

[fabknight]

Also, anyone that has traveled in Europe knows that most of the large rail stations are in downtown/city centers..near work CBD's and high density housing. Zero need to travel 30-50 mins to go to an airport and then the hassle of flying.

Also, a lot more routes per hr too with rail (regular or he) then plane.

Not that it matters. Public transportation workers are always on strike anyway.

 

[ucflee]

I honestly don't know if you are being purposefully deceitful at this point, or you actually think it only takes 2 hours to get from Chicago to LA. You do realize everyone here knows you have to add a minimum of 3 hours for parking at a major airline/TSA bullshit/ etc.

The only reason to get to the airport 3 hours early is the Centurion Lounge

 

[NinjaKnight]

The only reason to get to the airport 3 hours early is the Centurion Lounge

As a fellow Amex Platinum card holder I agree, but its close to 3 hours for a lot of the major airports if the McDonalds reject TSA workers feel like checking everyone's buttholes extra close that day.

 

[ucflee]

As a fellow Amex Platinum card holder I agree, but its close to 3 hours for a lot of the major airports if the McDonalds reject TSA workers feel like checking everyone's buttholes extra close that day.

You have pre-check, you are just being contrarian b/c your incessant need to bicker with 85.

 

[cnsaguy]

Chemmie-ex Pat has a nice ring to it

 

[UCFKnight85]

Lol some of these comments are hilarious. I fly a shit ton for a living and have been in and out of the biggest airports in the world. There is absolutely no need to show up 3 hours in advance unless you’re an Iranian planning to board an El Al flight to Telaviv.

In Tampa with pre check, which most of the country seems to have now given the lines, I can show up 45 minutes before my flight and be at my gate 15 minutes later. If you want to be safe you can make it 1 hour.

A few weeks ago I left Charles De Gaul in Paris and I went from bag drop to through security in 20 minutes.

PS- I’ve done high speed rail in Europe. You still have to show up ahead of time just to navigate the train station, and there is airport level security in many countries now, especially France. In fact it’s worse since there is exactly one line to scan every passenger and every bag.

 

[bqknight]

I have to agree with chemmie here. Even if you built a great rail system, you’re lacking the rest of the systems to make public transportation a feasible means of regular transportation.

HSR is different than local public transportation though. It would be a direct replacement for greyhound/airlines.

Public Transport in the vast majority of cities is utter sh!t. Suburban sprawl has a lot to do with that. Most cities aren't at all planned with public transportation in mind.

The USA is built for automobiles.

 

[bqknight]

Lol some of these comments are hilarious. I fly a shit ton for a living and have been in and out of the biggest airports in the world. There is absolutely no need to show up 3 hours in advance unless you’re an Iranian planning to board an El Al flight to Telaviv.

In Tampa with pre check, which most of the country seems to have now given the lines, I can show up 45 minutes before my flight and be at my gate 15 minutes later. If you want to be safe you can make it 1 hour.

A few weeks ago I left Charles De Gaul in Paris and I went from bag drop to through security in 20 minutes.

PS- I’ve done high speed rail in Europe. You still have to show up ahead of time just to navigate the train station, and there is airport level security in many countries now, especially France. In fact it’s worse since there is exactly one line to scan every passenger and every bag.

I typically show up a little less than 2 hours beforehand and I definitely have to rush a lot of times. Orlando's airport is hitting a point where the amount of people flying there has way outgrown the facilities. Glad they are working on a new international terminal.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I typically show up a little less than 2 hours beforehand and I definitely have to rush a lot of times. Orlando's airport is hitting a point where the amount of people flying there has way outgrown the facilities. Glad they are working on a new international terminal.

Orlando is sadly a terribly designed airport. Security in the main terminal is a cluster. I use it more often now since Emirates goes direct to Dubai now but man the crowds suck

 

[NinjaKnight]

You have pre-check, you are just being contrarian b/c your incessant need to bicker with 85.

Just pointing out the stupidity of his argument of not including mandatory TSA and parking/shuttle time and gate closures in the "2 hours Chicago to NY" bullshit he's posting. If you don't think you need 2 hours prior to departure at major airports to account for possible security delays I don't know what to tell you.

 

[ucflee]

Just pointing out the stupidity of his argument of not including mandatory TSA and parking/shuttle time and gate closures in the "2 hours Chicago to NY" bullshit he's posting. If you don't think you need 2 hours prior to departure at major airports to account for possible security delays I don't know what to tell you.

Minimum of 3 hours, close to 3 hours, 2 hours. Pot, I have bad news for you, you are coming down with a touch of the kettles.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Minimum of 3 hours, close to 3 hours, 2 hours. Pot, I have bad news for you, you are coming down with a touch of the kettles.

Ok, please tell me exactly how long one must arrive before departure time. If you don't give me the exact time down to the second I will make up some bullshit and incorrectly use the pot calling the kettle black logical fallacy against you. Thanks.

 

[ucflee]

Ok, please tell me exactly how long one must arrive before departure time. If you don't give me the exact time down to the second I will make up some bullshit and incorrectly use the pot calling the kettle black logical fallacy against you. Thanks.

Admit your hypocrisy and I may have time tomorrow to give you my experience based estimation for the time needed to arrive at an airport to make a flight. Or, don’t, either way, have a good night.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Admit your hypocrisy and I may have time tomorrow to give you my experience based estimation for the time needed to arrive at an airport to make a flight. Or, don’t, either way, have a good night.

Lmao take a look in the mirror. All I was doing was pointing out the bullshit of 85 saying you can get from NY to Chicago in 2 hours, just like literally everyone else in this thread.

 

[ucflee]

Lmao take a look in the mirror. All I was doing was pointing out the bullshit of 85 saying you can get from NY to Chicago in 2 hours, just like literally everyone else in this thread.

Everybody knows
Quantification is rife
Reflection is fine

 

[UCFRogerz]

It takes me longer to walk from the parking garage to the Pre-check line than it does to get through security and over to the gate. If I lived dangerously, I'd be willing to bet that as long as I get to MCO 45 minutes before my flight departs, I'd make it with time to spare.

 

[UCFKnight85]

BTW- here's a semi recent article on the debacle that is California HSR.

https://sf.curbed.com/2018/3/12/17110190/high-speed-rail-cost-money-bullet-train

This thing was sold to voters in 2008 as costing just $40B, with a lot coming from those free Obama dollars, and yet it still barely squeeked by. It turns out that pretty much everyone selling that $40B figure was lying, and knew it, since now the project is estimated to cost $80B, and reasonable projections have it escalating to $100B in just a few years.

And at best, if they're lucky, the first passengers will get on in 2028 and the train will go a whopping 215 miles.

 

[UCFWayne]

im all for expanding the usa's mass transit infrastructure. i think we need more hsr connecting our major cities and more subways and light rails in the medium size cities like orlando.

the problem is money, land, and governments not wanting to get invest in it. i wish this country would come around to it

 

[CommuterBob]

HSR needs to be a sealed corridor, which means either elevated, exclusive R/W, or underground. None of those options are cheap or easy in this country. China can at least force people out of their homes and don't have to negotiate land deals or go through costly and time-consuming environmental clearances for HSR. For HSR to be a reality in the US, there would have to be a breakthrough in construction method/tech to get elevated or underground rail more cost-effective, or a destruction of property rights. California HSR is just a freaking mess, mostly because they've been mired in legal issues about acquiring property, relocating utilities, and environmental clearances, which have vastly increased the project's cost.

Brightline can't keep on schedule, yet somehow they keep finding ways to raise investors' money for it. And they can't stop killing people in their small <70mph IOS in SFL. Wait until they get to 100 mph.

Honestly, we're better off if we invest into autonomous cars or passenger drones than HSR.

 

[UCFBS]

Communism is the best for Eminent Domain.
But give Trump 2020+, and he'll do it -- he's not big on private rights over the developer.