Gas Furnace vs heat pump

[Balthazar Impresario]

I am in the process of replacing my ac system. Our neighborhood had natural gas. My home is 21 years old and has the original gas furnace and Condenser unit. I’ve received 4 quotes. 2 say stay with gas furnace since I have it as an option and they last longer. The other 2 said you rarely use the furnace in Florida and were suggesting a heat pump. Thoughts?

 

[Crazyhole]

For where you live I can't imagine energy costs are going to be that big of a factor, so is just go with whichever equipment package is cheaper. To be honest though, if your furnace is only 20 years old I don't think I would even replace it. What brand do you have currently?

 

[Balthazar Impresario]

I have Bryant. There are supply issues right now. I can only find Rheem and Ruud furnaces right now.

 

[Crazyhole]

I have Bryant. There are supply issues right now. I can only find Rheem and Ruud furnaces right now.

Bryant is a good brand. What's the problem with it?

 

[UCFBS]

Geo-thermal heat exchange is a very efficient option in some parts of Florida, and very reliable because the mechanical compoents are far, far less. It costs more to put in, but if you truly want to save long-term (over 25+ years), as well as reduce your impact, it's a very, very easy and proven way to go.

Choosing and Installing Geothermal Heat Pumps

Thinking about installing a geothermal heat pump for your home? Start here.

energy.gov

I'm in central Alabama now, but I'm kinda kicking myself for getting a compressor instead of geo-thermal ... especially since my house is on a hill downslope and I have a 3-6m (10-20') rise barely 50' from my house, which would make it cheaper than typical. But I was also rushed to get the system put in while the electrical was redone to code (first portion of house was built the mid '40s, and the rest around '70), so I just went with a compressor at the time (fall 2017), so excavation would have held up things.

 

[Crazyhole]

Geo-thermal heat exchange is a very efficient option in some parts of Florida, and very reliable because the mechanical compoents are far, far less. It costs more to put in, but if you truly want to save long-term (over 25+ years), as well as reduce your impact, it's a very, very easy and proven way to go.

Choosing and Installing Geothermal Heat Pumps

Thinking about installing a geothermal heat pump for your home? Start here.

energy.gov

I'm in central Alabama now, but I'm kinda kicking myself for getting a compressor instead of geo-thermal ... especially since my house is on a hill downslope and I have a 3-6m (10-20') rise barely 50' from my house, which would make it cheaper than typical. But I was also rushed to get the system put in while the electrical was redone to code (first portion of house was built the mid '40s, and the rest around '70), so I just went with a compressor at the time (fall 2017), so excavation would have held up things.

There's no long term payoff with geothermal. By the time it has broken even, the equipment needs to be replaced. Just stick with an air source heat pump if you absolutely think that a heat pump is the way to go.

 

[Balthazar Impresario]

Bryant is a good brand. What's the problem with it?

Outside of the drain pan filling with water it seems to be working alright. The condensing unit is what is on its last leg. I figured I would replace both since I have done no maintenance for for the past decade or so.

 

[Crazyhole]

Outside of the drain pan filling with water it seems to be working alright. The condensing unit is what is on its last leg. I figured I would replace both since I have done no maintenance for for the past decade or so.

They'll probably replace the coil when they replace the AC, so I wouldn't be too worried about something as simple as a drain pan. Sounds like you probably just didn't change the filter often enough and the A-coil got plugged up with dust.

 

[UCFBS]

There's no long term payoff with geothermal. By the time it has broken even, the equipment needs to be replaced. Just stick with an air source heat pump if you absolutely think that a heat pump is the way to go.

If it breaks in twice the time as a pump, then it's worth it.

But there is also the energy efficiency standpoint, especially if energy prices skyrocket ... which is a very real possibility in the short-term.

We've been living off the Natural Gas Glut since 2007, the very nice by-product of Fracking, and the reason why Coal died, and became an export crop to the EU and China for us.

That's now over. We've ****ed ourselves by cutting off our fingers before we invented magic, cybernetic replacements that work as well ... but the Mass Media tells everyone we already have.

 

[Crazyhole]

If it breaks in twice the time as a pump, then it's worth it.

But there is also the energy efficiency standpoint, especially if energy prices skyrocket ... which is a very real possibility in the short-term.

We've been living off the Natural Gas Glut since 2007, the very nice by-product of Fracking, and the reason why Coal died, and became an export crop to the EU and China for us.

That's now over. We've ****ed ourselves by cutting off our fingers before we invented magic, cybernetic replacements that work as well ... but the Mass Media tells everyone we already have.

They don't last twice as long though. You might luck out on a closed loop system and get close to that, but not a chance in heck you will with a pump and dump. Water is more corrosive than you think and it takes out the copper coils pretty fast, then you're paying up the ass for the electric backup heat.

 

[UCFBS]

They don't last twice as long though. You might luck out on a closed loop system and get close to that, but not a chance in heck you will with a pump and dump. Water is more corrosive than you think and it takes out the copper coils pretty fast, then you're paying up the ass for the electric backup heat.

There are other options than water. This is a long discussion I'd love to have, but not here.

I'm really behind on my off-grid projects. I need to find the time. I have 3 acres, around neighbors with 10-20 acres, here in mid-Alabama for a reason.

After the Great Recession, I knew where we were headed with $1T+/year deficits.

The Energy crunch is coming. At least I'm in 'Bama, the gateway to pipelines, and a state with its own ports, without all the BS regulation that does nothing (and actually hurts the environment).

We also have some manufacturing industry too ... along with the most Engineers per capita in Huntsville.

 

[Nautiknight]

There's no long term payoff with geothermal. By the time it has broken even, the equipment needs to be replaced. Just stick with an air source heat pump if you absolutely think that a heat pump is the way to go.

So, in Florida geothermal might not be worth it as heat pumps are relatively efficient down to 50 F and it starts to drop off in the 40s and plummets from there. I have a Water Furnace in the North Carolina mountains and in the winter our lows are routinely in the teens and twenties. Extracting heat from 55 degree ground water is significantly better than trying to extract heat from 17 degree air. Its also incredible on cooling as well . You could look at geo because in the summer your outside condenser is dumping heat to the air from your home. Dumping heat across a heat exchanger to water is more efficient.

For those that may not know, my geothermal system uses a compressor with refrigerant. The geothermal part is exchanging or dumping heat to a liquid versus the air. You still need a cold refrigerant to pass through evaporator coils to generate the cooling for passing house air through. The evaporated refrigerant absorbs heat thus cooling the air around it.

 

[UCF11and1]

So, in Florida geothermal might not be worth it as heat pumps are relatively efficient down to 50 F and it starts to drop off in the 40s and plummets from there. I have a Water Furnace in the North Carolina mountains and in the winter our lows are routinely in the teens and twenties. Extracting heat from 55 degree ground water is significantly better than trying to extract heat from 17 degree air. Its also incredible on cooling as well . You could look at geo because in the summer your outside condenser is dumping heat to the air from your home. Dumping heat across a heat exchanger to water is more efficient.

For those that may not know, my geothermal system uses a compressor with refrigerant. The geothermal part is exchanging or dumping heat to a liquid versus the air. You still need a cold refrigerant to pass through evaporator coils to generate the cooling for passing house air through. The evaporated refrigerant absorbs heat thus cooling the air around it.

So the refrigerant is the middle man?
Is the refrigerant running through radiators inside the house or is it a central unit that cools/warms the air in the house?

 

[goodknightfl]

Coal Powered furnace is the best way to go. That being said if you live in Fl. south of Ocala, what do you need with a furnace?

 

[UCFBS]

So the refrigerant is the middle man?
Is the refrigerant running through radiators inside the house or is it a central unit that cools/warms the air in the house?

I'm over-simplifying, but it's used in the heat exchange. Most people get confused because unlike ... say ... a window A/C or even full HVAC unit that is self-contained, 'central HVAC' has multiple components for strategic (or practical) reasons.

I'll let those with more practical experience maintaining exchanges, pumps and air movers break it down, but basically as @Nautiknight pointed out ...

So, in Florida geothermal might not be worth it as heat pumps are relatively efficient down to 50 F and it starts to drop off in the 40s and plummets from there.

Heat exchange has everything to do with differential. The more differential, the more geothermal is worth it. Which brings me to ...

I have a Water Furnace in the North Carolina mountains and in the winter our lows are routinely in the teens and twenties. Extracting heat from 55 degree ground water is significantly better than trying to extract heat from 17 degree air. Its also incredible on cooling as well .

Yep, it goes both ways, both heat and cold.

E.g., ambient of the temperature some 6-9m (20-30') down is 10-15C (50-60F), so being able to get even 15C (60F) ambient without any actual 'thermal exchange cost' (there are still both the air mover and some cost outside too) in 30C+ (86F+) does 'add up' in the SE US, especially Florida that has warm days 9+ months/year, and warm nights 6+ months.

Better insulating your home is also the best investment return as well. I'll let @Nautiknight talk more ... among others who have more practical experience.

Spoiler: Personal, My Primary Residence (central AL)

I've found that even in dead central Alabama (northern Chilton County), which is about 6/6 months cold/hot (and quite weird at times), it costs me more to heat, than cool. I could improve my insulation in some areas of my home, but for being originally built/extended in 1945/1968, it's really good, sans the split-level basement.

I actually get some benefit, while some loss, in not having a poured foundation, and just a basic vapor barrier.