Hong Kong Protests

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by UCFWayne, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry
  2. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    71,881
    Likes Received:
    39,711
    I can't imagine they want to be subject to being sent off to face "justice" in a country with 2 million people in concentration camps.
     
  3. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry
  4. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry


    the protests are still going on down there and they are starting to turn violent
     
  5. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    71,881
    Likes Received:
    39,711
    These guys are apparently part of some gang that has ties to the mainland and they were pictured smiling and shaking hands with a PM that is pro-Mainland China.

    Makes me wonder if the Communists are paying these thugs to go kick the shit out of enough people to scare them off the streets. HK is the most policed state in the world and yet they were nowhere to be found after these guys started attacking people.
     
    UCFWayne likes this.
  6. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry


    protests still going strong
     
  7. DaShuckster

    DaShuckster Silver Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,983
    Likes Received:
    1,432
    On top of everything else, this Hong Kong thing has the potential to blow up the world markets.
     
  8. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry
  9. Poolside Knight

    Poolside Knight Diamond Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    Messages:
    14,270
    Likes Received:
    11,407
    should have been like the Falkland Islands and remained part of the UK


    Moscow getting in on the protests
    [​IMG]
    opposition candidate
     
  10. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    71,881
    Likes Received:
    39,711
    Apparently a HK cop shot a bean bag at some girl's eye last night when protesting and it caused the eye to rupture from the eye socket and dangle while TV cameras were rolling for everyone to see. :eek:

    That then spurred today's massive protest and their slogan is "eye for an eye".
     
    Ucfmikes and UCFWayne like this.
  11. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry
    sounds like trump should run some guns to the protesters
     
  12. UCFBS

    UCFBS Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Messages:
    14,482
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    Location:
    US-AL-BHM/Montevallo
    I don't think the British would try to take on China like they did Argentina. And even Argentina might have been a half-dozen bomb fuses away from making the British thing twice during the landings.
     
  13. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry
    looks like they are protesting in the airport again today
     
  14. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    71,881
    Likes Received:
    39,711
    Beijing sends the People's Army to "restore order" in 3, 2, 1.....
     
  15. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry
    im actually surprised the protests havent been met with violence from the police/army yet
     
  16. Ace of Knights

    Ace of Knights Silver Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,553
    Likes Received:
    1,962
    This is going to get ugly real quick. The military is mobilizing. Tianenmen Square part 2.
     
    UCFWayne likes this.
  17. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    71,881
    Likes Received:
    39,711
    Nah. This isn't 1989 where China was still a semi-hermit kingdom that largely was cut off from the world. They wouldn't dare sending in troops to clear the airport w/ force knowing the world is now watching every second of this unfold.

    That said I don't know what these protestors want. Like, will they only leave if China totally drops governance of HK? Drops the entire British handover agreement? Good luck.
     
  18. Ace of Knights

    Ace of Knights Silver Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,553
    Likes Received:
    1,962
    I’m not so sure about that. Honestly, what’s anybody going to do to them if they do?
     
  19. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry
    so i dont really know the history of hong kong very well. found this post the other day and it seems to do a good job of explaining it.

    HONG KONG’S PROTEST by Ken Gulley (unbiased america facebook)

    I’ve been approached by a few friends asking a simple but complicated question - “What the hell is going on in Hong Kong?”

    The simple and quick answer may be found in the latest article by any major outlets but at the risk of being less convenient, let's get to the root of the problem.

    To truly understand what is going on in Hong Kong, we must first look at the autonomous region’s history.

    • BACKGROUND

    Hong Kong became a colony of the United Kingdom in 1842 after it was ceded to the empire at the end of the First Opium War and the subsequent Second Opium War which finalized its land area.

    In 1898 the UK signed a 99-Year lease with Qing China vowing to return Hong Kong to Chinese control in 1997. In that time, infrastructure, immigrant populations (especially after the Chinese Civil War and Communist takeover of China) exploded. In the 1990s, Hong Kong stood out as a global and financial hub.

    In 1984, the Sino-British Joint Declaration decided that the 1997 lease end would guarantee a “one country, two system” governance of Hong Kong. The impending transfer led many to emigrate from Hong Kong, practicing their British “right to abode” by fleeing to Europe.

    In 1997, Hong Kong was transferred to Chinese control with the democratic region still operating as a free government under Chinese rule. Chinese National Law does not apply to Hong Kong currently. Full governance will apply in 2047 but there is debate over what that will entail. Since then, Beijing has slowly but heavily applied political influence on Hong Kong.

    • FAST FORWARD

    In 2017, Carrie Lam became Chief Executive of Hong Kong in a 3-way election by the members of the election committee. Lam was the Beijing-favored candidate and quickly secured her favor with the mainland with the trial and imprisonment of pro-democracy and independence activist and the disqualification of four pro-democracy lawmakers for their “oath-taking” rituals which were declared to be illegal and outside the standard procedure.

    In 2019 the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (Amendment) Bill 2019 was proposed after the murder of a pregnant Hong Konger by her Hong Konger boyfriend in Taiwain. Due to current irregularities regarding extradition practices between Hong Kong and mainland China (where Hong Kong criminals are refused extradition to the mainland though the mainland extradites criminals to Hong Kong), police in Hong Kong were unable to prosecute the murder suspect for the murder that took place in Taiwan.

    The lack of extradition treaties also extend to Taiwan. Extradition laws as written have raised fears among Hong Konger population believing the law would be law would open a portal for greater mainland control of Hong Kong and open the population up to a different legal system (re: communist) as opposed to those practiced in Hong Kong (English Common Law). Fears were also echoed by the business community in Hong Kong who currently practice business in the freest economic system in the world. The American Chamber of Commerce in Hong Kong (AmCham) declared the mainland's "criminal process is plagued by deep flaws, including lack of an independent judiciary, arbitrary detention, lack of fair public trial, lack of access to legal representation and poor prison conditions.”

    Critics of the bill have requested a temporary agreement with Taiwan to allow extradition then immediately close said agreement immediately after the murderer was handed over - given Taiwan’s democratic practice.

    In response, Taiwan stated it would not be a part of any agreement that declared Taiwan to be a part of mainland China - so as to prevent the use of said agreement by mainland China against its citizens. Taiwanese officials have cause for concern about any agreement and view it suspiciously as an attempt by Pro-Beijing officials in Hong Kong to assert power and authority on Taiwan.*

    • PROTESTS

    The current Hong Kong legislative body is made up of the localist camp, pro-democracy camp, and pro-Beijing camp. The Pro-Beijing camp is currently the majority and exerting pressure for legislators to support Chief Executive Lam and the bill.

    International pressure has come from formal leaders in the UK (House of Lords), concern from the US (Mike Pompeo) and opposition from
    Other US delegates and commissioners, opposition from EU delegations, and various international organizations including but not limited to Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, etc.

    A no-confidence vote against Lam by Hong Kong’s legislature was repelled by pro-Beijing loyalists and various meetings attempted concerning the bills have erupted into chaos that resulted in physical altercations. Amendments have been proposed and considered.

    Prior to the bill’s suspension, large protests took place on March 31st and April 28th - countering the proposed legislation.

    June 9th saw a larger protests with upwards of 1 million people in attendance. The protests remained relatively peaceful until midnight when alleged incidents of assault on police occurred resulting in pepper spray and arrests.

    June 16th saw the largest protest to date with upwards of 2 million in attendance. Lam offered an apology of mishandling the bill and her service to the public on the 18th but refused to withdraw the bill completely.

    As it stands, the bill has been suspended and declared “dead” as of July 9th but a withdrawal of the bill has not been put in place.

    As the protests continue into August, four demands have been highlighted by certain student unions acting as representatives of the protestors. These demands include a withdrawal of the extradition bill; retraction of all references to the 12 June protest being a riot; release all arrested protesters; and accountability of police officers who used excessive force.

    The protests have largely remained tied to the extradition bill but have also expanded into a revival of sorts for a pro-democracy expansion in opposition to impending Chinese control and regulation. There are even photographs and videos in circulation showing pro-democracy protestors waving US flags, singing the US National Anthem, and holding pro-2nd Amendment signs.

    On Monday, demonstrators shut down Hong Kong’s international airports including one of the busiest international airports in the world. Lam has warned that the city is “at the brink of no return.”

    Beijing issued a stern warning and perhaps an allusion to impending crackdowns by declaring the protests were showing “signs of terrorism.” Beijing has reportedly amassed military vehicles on the mainland border with Hong Kong.

    Lastly, there are considerable concerns made by Hong Kong observers and activists that many of the “riotous” activities have been stoked by police and/or Triad gang members. BBC has prior documentation in past protests (2014) of Triad involvement and/or paid protestors acting on behalf of pro-Beijing interests.

    The world’s eyes warily monitor the situation in Hong Kong.

    • IMPLICATIONS

    China boasts the largest standing military with upwards of 1.5-2.0Million troops.

    China’s history of crackdown on pro-democracy advances (I.e. Tiananmen Square) have been heavy handed and considerable. Hong Kong offers different challenges for Beijing as there is a wider array of freedom (and therefore public knowledge and press) of any actions Beijing may take.

    Given the size of the protests, international media has been relatively underwhelming. The US position, while pro-democracy, has been fairly mum but urges caution. The US is currently embroiled in a trade-war with China, involved with tensions over recent arms agreements with Taiwan, and growing conflict over Chinese Island building in the South China Sea - raising concerns from Japan, Korea, Australia and the Philippines among others.

    Hong Kong is an urban community boasting a population of 7 million people with 1 million millionaires.

    * [ Side note: China considers Taiwan to be a rogue state that it will force into unity by peace or force if necessary - all buy 16 nations have unofficial relations with Taiwan so as to maintain relations with China. China has declared it would refuse to recognize and have formal relations with any nation that officially recognizes Taiwan as a separate nation. All but 16 nations maintain de-facto embassies in Taiwan (including the US) as a work around. The US maintains an unofficial but now-High Level official relations with Taiwan after an Act passed by the Trump Administration. Continued Arms trade under the Obama Administration maintained a tit-for-tat strife between the US and China leading to varied ranges of tariffs and disagreements.]

    Sources:
    • BI https://www.businessinsider.com/one-in-7-in-hong-kong-is-a-millionaire-2018-3 / https://www.businessinsider.com/vid...s-gather-in-shenzen-hong-kong-protests-2019-8 (Left Lean)
    • NYT - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/09/world/asia/taiwan-arms-sales.amp.html (Left Lean)
    • SCMP- https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...-kong-lawmakers-disqualified-over-oath-taking (Left Lean)
    • CNN - https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/asia/hong-kong-airport-fifth-day-protests-intl-hnk/index.html / https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/asia/hong-kong-airport-chaos-intl-hnk/index.html (Left Lean)
    • BBC -
    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-china-48607723 (Left Centrist lean)
     
  20. UCFBS

    UCFBS Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Messages:
    14,482
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    Location:
    US-AL-BHM/Montevallo
    Hong Kong and Mainland China actually speak 2 very different dialects.
    Even the Taiwanese speak the same as Mainland China.

    Now writing is a whole, other issue ... even in just Mainland China.
    They are only now standardizing things across their populace, yeah, in the 21st Century.
     
  21. KingDavid

    KingDavid Five-Star Recruit
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2003
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    758
  22. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry
  23. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry
    via facebook unbiased america
    HONG KONG LEADER CARRIE LAM FINALLY AGREES TO PROTESTER DEMANDS TO WITHDRAW CHINA EXTRADITION BILL THAT SPARKED PROTESTS
    By Kevin Ryan

    Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam has finally caved in to protester demands to withdraw the China extradition bill that led to three months of unrest. The bill would have allowed citizens to be sent for trial in mainland China.

    Mrs. Lam’s previous refusal to use the word “withdrawal” had angered many. She suspended the bill on June 15, but a mass rally a day later demanding she formally withdraw it drew a record turnout of two million people. Opposition groups said without a formal withdrawal, the city’s legislature could quickly revive it for a reading and vote.

    In a televised address, Mrs. Lam today finally agreed to the formal withdrawal. She also pledged to increase dialogue with the community and said she would initiate an independent review of the political, economic, and social climate.

    Although the withdrawal satisfies the original goal of the protesters, the unrest was no longer solely focused only on it, instead growing into a larger statement against Beijing’s influence in the operation of the relatively autonomous region.

    The opposition movement is still making several other demands, including releasing the arrested protesters, not labeling the protests as riots, conducting an inquiry into the police handling of the riots, and restarting the constitutional reform process.

    After local media reported the withdrawal, thousands of protesters took to the social media app Telegram to say the concession wasn’t enough and they would continue to push for all their demands. Anger at authorities has risen as police have been criticized for acts of brutality against protesters.

    The UK operated Hong Kong under a 99 year lease from China starting in 1898. Its hands-off system of governance created the closest thing to a free market economy in the world. Hong Kong had the lowest level of business regulations in the world, the freest trade in the world, one of the smallest governments in the world. The combination created unprecedented prosperity, with Hong Kong residents enjoying one of the highest median incomes, the longest life expectancy, the highest IQs, the second highest test scores, the sixth lowest crime rate, the best public infrastructure, and one of the least corrupt economies in the entire world.

    When Britain’s lease was set to expire in 1997, China announced it intended to take back Hong Kong, inspiring fear in residents that they'd be subjected to China’s authoritarian governance.

    So the UK negotiated a "One country, two systems" treaty with China stating that Hong Kong's economic system and way of life would remain unchanged for a period of 50 years until 2047.

    At the time China expressed support for Hong Kong's plan to elect its leaders via democratic elections, but China later reneged, and in 2017, only China-approved candidates were allowed to run in the city's elections.

    SOURCE: https://www.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-leader-carrie-lam-to-withdraw-china-extradition-bill-11567582875
     
  24. fried-chicken

    fried-chicken Golden Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    6,611
    Likes Received:
    3,032
    No one cared.
     
  25. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry
    [​IMG]
     
  26. UCFBS

    UCFBS Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Messages:
    14,482
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    Location:
    US-AL-BHM/Montevallo
    China's word is basically crap, and it's why almost every country in the region is an American ally now.
     
  27. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,564
    Likes Received:
    8,472
    Location:
    Casselberry
    i dont know if its true, but i had heard the protesters stopped to honor 9/11. i thought that was pretty cool if it was true. havent see to many places report on it, but then again not too many are covering the china protests in debt anyways.
     
  28. UCFBS

    UCFBS Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Messages:
    14,482
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    Location:
    US-AL-BHM/Montevallo
    Everyone loves the US when they want the US to intervene.

    Trump is anti-intervention, so they shouldn't hold their breath. Of course, if there is a deal to be made in the trade war, he might take it.
     

Share This Page