If you ever wondered why police have tactical units and gear
- Thread starter sk8knight
- Start date
It was reported that one officer took a round that bounced off his Kevlar Helmet and saved his life.
Is there any reason to try and negotiate in circumstances like this? I'm not trying to armchair this, but should the policy be just to go in once a tactical unit has arrived?
It depends on the situation. In an active shooter situation, the guy is shooting so you kill him before he kills everyone. If you read the news, this guy was active, then took hostages. In a hostage situation, they negotiate. The units pulled back. But there were more details that caused the decision to go ahead and take him out.
Yeap. This is pretty much SOP. The cops would have heard if the guy was inside killing people and they would have went in. They did the same thing in Paris. There were hostages so you try and negotiate it. Daylight was coming so they decided it was time to move. The FBI and every other national agency was in on these decisions. It wasn't just OPD.
Responders to this came from agencies across central Florida and participated in the entry. There are many details of this not released to the media. Daylight may have been a factor but it wasn't the primary factor in the decision. Regardless, realize that these officers with families of their own rushed into that club directly into the face of someone who was shooting real bullets at them. Without hesitation. I know some of them. They acted heroically that day in a situation where many of us would falter.
Any time someone says "automatic weapons," without any further adjectives, I pretty much ignore it.
If they don't prefix it with "semi," "fully" or replace it with "selective fire," and get those facts out there, then it could mean a weapon designed in the 19th century. It's way too clear people don't know the first things about guns, and probably shouldn't say anything. Especially with even the Washington Post now wrongly stating AR-15 "style" weapons were banned by the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban (AWB), we've not got even moderate and sometimes right-leaning media outlets showcasing their own ignorance.
I mean, I can style a Ferraro like a Ferrari, but it's still not going to perform like one.
I thought this would change after the San Bernardino shooting, where they extensively modified their weapons to be fully automatic. But the media pretty much botched that. You can even see the reactions of the ATF and FBI agents in the background in many press conferences just cringing after statements and, even more so, loaded, ignorance-based questions.
If they don't prefix it with "semi," "fully" or replace it with "selective fire," and get those facts out there, then it could mean a weapon designed in the 19th century. It's way too clear people don't know the first things about guns, and probably shouldn't say anything. Especially with even the Washington Post now wrongly stating AR-15 "style" weapons were banned by the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban (AWB), we've not got even moderate and sometimes right-leaning media outlets showcasing their own ignorance.
I mean, I can style a Ferraro like a Ferrari, but it's still not going to perform like one.
I thought this would change after the San Bernardino shooting, where they extensively modified their weapons to be fully automatic. But the media pretty much botched that. You can even see the reactions of the ATF and FBI agents in the background in many press conferences just cringing after statements and, even more so, loaded, ignorance-based questions.
I agree, but they're about to get second guessed to all hell about waiting 3 hours.
Sure, and it's a sad fact of America at this point. From what I understand, given what information they had at the time, I think they made the right decisions. Hopefully this doesn't turn into an inquisition because that helps no one.
My understanding of the events from the various press conferences: the first exchange of gunfire was between 1 uniformed off duty officer and the shooter. The shooter entered the club and the officer waited for backup. When backup arrived, the three went in and forced the shooter into a bathroom. After he was barricaded in the bathroom, the situation settled and they got as many people out as they could. At this point, SWAT was called and it became a hostage situation with the shooter claiming he had set explosives. The breach occurred a few hours later when the situation began to escalate again.
From my understanding, the first units responded to the initial shots fired inside the club. They found him at the entrance and ended up pushing him back into the club. It wasn't a scenario where he went through them to get into the club.
Agreed. I think the attention may go towards friendly fire from police. They said they were investigating but never denied the possibility of friendly fire.
That's why I didn't like the media going on about the body count.
There is very likely the possibility that several people got caught in the cross-fire, and then there will be the common demonizations of police all over again. The police did everything right from what I read so far, even if they ended up shooting some people at points. Because they held back and literally did most everything to minimize death, but at some point, they had to take him down before others went.
As always ... I think it would help a lot if we taught kids how to deal with violence as much as we do fire. But, apparently, we'll keep being ignorant as a society.
I figured the police had to act. They were really patient up until an event forced their hand. I'm just afraid if any details come out on the ballistics, the media will have a field day as a result.
Similar threads
