Inconsistency under GOL

[C-MontCityKnight2]

Yes, I know GOL led us to our best season ever, but I did a bit of research to see if I unfairly criticize his performance of 5 losing seasons in 12 years with it being extremely likely we'll have two 0-win seasons. Our closest analogies would be ECU and Houston - neither school has been in a power conference, and both schools have made significant financial investments in their programs. The caveat here is both of those schools have had to deal with new coaches during the 12 years we've had 1 coach. The stats over the last 12 years are below.

Houston: 3 losing seasons (3, 5, and 5 wins). As many as 13 wins a couple years ago followed by a rebuilding year with 5 wins.
ECU: 3 losing seasons (2, 5 and 5 wins). As many as 9 wins followed by a rebuilding year with 6 wins.

Thoughts?

 

[HammerB08]

Seems that when most comparable teams have a terrible year they at least pick up a couple wins. Going 0-fer is a complete embarrassment. Does it make us any better or mean we had a better season if we get 1-2 wins? No, but I think for the health of the program at this point to go winless when facing a not-so-tough schedule would be very damaging from a perception standpoint. Everyone knows the season is down the tubes. Please find a way to pick up a win somewhere, somehow. A win on Thanksgiving would be fantastic.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Houston used to be in the Southwest Conference but that was before the creation of the BCS in 1998.
ECUs worse record recently was 1-11 in 2003 and that coach lost his DC job at North Texas i believe.

 

[firm_bizzle]

I think that is pretty fair. The biggest factor with inconsistency for me shows in attendance. GOL would $hit the bed in crappy games which totally kills the momentum of the program. You never knew what you were going to get. A 2nd zero win season pretty much takes us back to when he started, do we give him another 9 years to get us back to the Fiesta bowl?

 

[firm_bizzle]

Houston used to be in the Southwest Conference but that was before the creation of the BCS in 1998.
ECUs worse record recently was 1-11 in 2003 and that coach lost his DC job at North Texas i believe.

I don't think ECU has all of the advantages that we do. Houston does now with their new stadium.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

I don't think ECU has all of the advantages that we do. Houston does now with their new stadium.

ECU has upgraded their stadium but yeah for the most part theyre in a small town surrounded by other ACC and SEC programs. That said if there was any program that benefited the most from Miami and their sanctions in the 90s it was ECU....especially the 1999 Hurricane Floyd game.

I doubt UCF with O'Leary could do that. Hell we lost to a Penn State team suffering the brunt of recruiting violations in Ireland of all places. That shouldve been an easy win.

As for Houston, that program died after this - http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...erback-gino-torretta-hurricanes-run-and-shoot

...and wasnt resurrected until Art Briles and Kevin Sumlin started coaching. Houston had some one win seasons but they didnt keep the coach like UCF kept O'Leary.

Sometimes i wonder how organized our program really is.

 

[KnightVision82]

Following GOL at this point feels like an eternity...

I don't like bringing up the painful past like freezing my butt off watching our team
lose the Liberty Bowl to Ole Miss. Yes, George won that one the second time
but too often our butts were frozen to our seats watching games we should have won
or blown out the opponent.

With Taafe gone, GOLs warts have become more visible again.

 

[C-MontCityKnight2]

Following GOL at this point feels like an eternity...

I don't like bringing up the painful past like freezing my butt off watching our team
lose the Liberty Bowl to Ole Miss. Yes, George won that one the second time
but too often our butts were frozen to our seats watching games we should have won
or blown out the opponent.

With Taafe gone, GOLs warts have become more visible again.

While I certainly remember freezing my butt off at the liberty bowl, I don't remember Ole Miss. What I do remember is a bunch of stupid friggin' cowbells from Mississippi State!

But yeah, I can't imagine how we'll explode as a program once we move into the modern era of college football. GOL peaked in 2013 and has been setting the program back the last 2 years. Even before that though, I think there are a number of coaches who in their 10th year could have replicated GOLs success at UCF. I think the next coach will truly bring us to the point of consistently beating P5, and finally pounding the lesser teams in our conference.

Every once-in-a-while GOL put together a pounding, but for the most part we have always played down. I am so ready for this to be over at the end of the season. I wish he'd do it sooner so we could start our search now.

 

[UCFBS]

Yes, I know GOL led us to our best season ever, but I did a bit of research to see if I unfairly criticize his performance of 5 losing seasons in 12 years with it being extremely likely we'll have two 0-win seasons.

Now you're actually being logical. I won't guilt anyone for bringing this up, it's very fair criticism. In fact, I don't consider it a feat that GoL gave us our best season ever, but he had 3 solid seasons in a row.

Otherwise, yes, the yo-yo'ing was getting old.

Our closest analogies would be ECU and Houston - neither school has been in a power conference, and both schools have made significant financial investments in their programs. The caveat here is both of those schools have had to deal with new coaches during the 12 years we've had 1 coach. The stats over the last 12 years are below.
Houston: 3 losing seasons (3, 5, and 5 wins). As many as 13 wins a couple years ago followed by a rebuilding year with 5 wins.
ECU: 3 losing seasons (2, 5 and 5 wins). As many as 9 wins followed by a rebuilding year with 6 wins.
Thoughts?

ECU kept Skip Holtz, and only lost him when he went to South Florida.

Houston is in Texas, which seems to be hard on head coaches.
Then again, so is the state of Florida.

 

[Poolside Knight]

I don't think ECU has all of the advantages that we do. Houston does now with their new stadium.

UH is in a bad area and is still very much trying to fight off the commuter school lack of pride issue, they are like Texas's USF but with even less support

 

[firm_bizzle]

While I certainly remember freezing my butt off at the liberty bowl, I don't remember Ole Miss. What I do remember is a bunch of stupid friggin' cowbells from Mississippi State!

But yeah, I can't imagine how we'll explode as a program once we move into the modern era of college football. GOL peaked in 2013 and has been setting the program back the last 2 years. Even before that though, I think there are a number of coaches who in their 10th year could have replicated GOLs success at UCF. I think the next coach will truly bring us to the point of consistently beating P5, and finally pounding the lesser teams in our conference.

Every once-in-a-while GOL put together a pounding, but for the most part we have always played down. I am so ready for this to be over at the end of the season. I wish he'd do it sooner so we could start our search now.

You also have to understand that the reason for that 2013 season was because we were part of the club for one year and won our conference.

 

[mattropolis]

Here's the only stats that matters:
UCF: 3.3 conference titles and A BCS bowl win. Large TV market. Good attendance for G5 school, ignoring how much people on here whine about how we have a horrible fan base.
ECU: 2 conference titles. Played for the conference title five other titles....but conference titles or playing for them doesn't matter, right? Smaller TV market.
Houston: 1 conference title. They win lots of games but usually choke when it matters. Nice stadium (at least it looks nice on TV...haven't been there myself) but attendance is poor for opening up a new complex. They barely got a bump in attendance when they opened their new stadium. Even at 6-0 their last home game only says 25K attended. If we were 6-0 do you think there'd only be 25K in attendance....I think not. Big TV market. BTW, ESPN lists nearly 27K for attendance for us at the UConn game. We suck and are still pulling in as many or more fans as indicated for this team, however they come up with that number.

BTW, ECU actually has four losing seasons:
2004: 2-9
2005: 5-6
2010: 6-7
2011: 5-7
They've only reached the 10-win plateau once. Not surprising that was 2013 when we left (along with some other programs that were at or near the top of CUSA), and a bunch of sh_t programs were added to their conference/division (they played four conference games against teams that ended up with 1 or 2 conference wins). They have a nice stadium and a great fanbase.

According to this article on SBNation: http://www.minerrush.com/2015/4/7/8148419/group-of-five-attendance-numbers-aac-mw-mac-sun-belt-cusa
we have the #2 attendance behind ECU. That's right....#2. I don't know what they exactly based their numbers on but it is at least to compare with. Houston is #10.

 

[EngAlum98]

Houston has had 1 Conference Championship in those 12 years. ECU has 2. UCF has 4 in 12 years!!! (Technically, 4 in the past 8). Do you want to be mediocre like those other two schools and have average seasons, or bounce around a little and have higher success?

 

[EngAlum98]

Should I mention also that our little sister school to the west that has had pretty much all of the same things going for them as we have and has had better recruiting has ZERO championships? Let me say is again....ZERO Championships!

 

[C-MontCityKnight2]

Houston has had 1 Conference Championship in those 12 years. ECU has 2. UCF has 4 in 12 years!!! (Technically, 4 in the past 8). Do you want to be mediocre like those other two schools and have average seasons, or bounce around a little and have higher success?

This was kind of the point of my post. I didn't actually add up the total W-L over the last 12 years, but my guess is we'd be right around Houston's level (but ahead of ECU). And that is with two 0 win seasons. I guess I'd prefer going the route we have gone, but I think there are tons of coaches out there that can get us the wins and make the lows not be so low.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Should I mention also that our little sister school to the west that has had pretty much all of the same things going for them as we have and has had better recruiting has ZERO championships? Let me say is again....ZERO Championships!

These are Conference America championships.

 

[EngAlum98]

This was kind of the point of my post. I didn't actually add up the total W-L over the last 12 years, but my guess is we'd be right around Houston's level (but ahead of ECU). And that is with two 0 win seasons. I guess I'd prefer going the route we have gone, but I think there are tons of coaches out there that can get us the wins and make the lows not be so low.

I'm sure there are coaches that can do better. The ones that have make more than we are paying GOL and/or leave early to bigger teams with more money. Examples:
Tommy Tuberville - Highest Paid AAC Coach (1 Championship in 2 years)
Dan Hawkins - Boise State 5 seasons- Hired away by Colorado for more money (Turns out it was his Offensive Coordinator (Chris Petersen) that was getting the wins)
Chris Petersen - Boise State 8 seasons- Hired away by Washington for more money
Larry Fedora - Southern Miss 4 seasons - Never has a losing record and gets hired away by UNC for more money

 

[C-MontCityKnight2]

I'm sure there are coaches that can do better. The ones that have make more than we are paying GOL and/or leave early to bigger teams with more money. Examples:
Tommy Tuberville - Highest Paid AAC Coach (1 Championship in 2 years)
Dan Hawkins - Boise State 5 seasons- Hired away by Colorado for more money (Turns out it was his Offensive Coordinator (Chris Petersen) that was getting the wins)
Chris Petersen - Boise State 8 seasons- Hired away by Washington for more money
Larry Fedora - Southern Miss 4 seasons - Never has a losing record and gets hired away by UNC for more money

False. Plenty of coaches do it for much less than we pay GOL:

Rod Carey - NIU ($1.5 million less than GOL) 4-3, 7 point loss to #1 OSU with much much much less talent (remember, GOL got blown out against them with one of our best teams ever).
Scott Satterfield - App State ($1.5 million less than GOL) 5-1, pounded inferior conference teams.
Matt Campbell - Toledo ($1.4 million less than GOL) 6-0, P5 win, ranked.
Willie Fritz - GA Southern ($1.4 million less than GOL) 5-1, pounded inferior conference teams.
Jeff Brohm - W. Ky ($1.3 million less than GOL) 6-1, P5 win, pounded inferior conference teams.
Matt Rhule - Temple ($1.2 million less than GOL) 6-0, P5 wins, win over UCF, ranked.
Justin Fuente - Memphis ($500k less than GOL) 6-0, P5 wins, ranked.
Any further questions?

 

[EngAlum98]

False. Plenty of coaches do it for much less than we pay GOL:

Rod Carey - NIU ($1.5 million less than GOL) 4-3, 7 point loss to #1 OSU with much much much less talent (remember, GOL got blown out against them with one of our best teams ever).
Scott Satterfield - App State ($1.5 million less than GOL) 5-1, pounded inferior conference teams.
Matt Campbell - Toledo ($1.4 million less than GOL) 6-0, P5 win, ranked.
Willie Fritz - GA Southern ($1.4 million less than GOL) 5-1, pounded inferior conference teams.
Jeff Brohm - W. Ky ($1.3 million less than GOL) 6-1, P5 win, pounded inferior conference teams.
Matt Rhule - Temple ($1.2 million less than GOL) 6-0, P5 wins, win over UCF, ranked.
Justin Fuente - Memphis ($500k less than GOL) 6-0, P5 wins, ranked.
Any further questions?

Yes, I have a question... Are you bipolar?

We are talking about inconsistency (as is your topic) and you go spatting off about one season. And I could spat something off about each of your mentioned teams, but figured that would be a waste of my time.

 

[KnightsofGroveland]

I hope we can afford Matt Campbell. He's my pick to bring us to the future!

 

[jetsaholic]

Here come the huggers...

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

Yes, I know GOL led us to our best season ever, but I did a bit of research to see if I unfairly criticize his performance of 5 losing seasons in 12 years with it being extremely likely we'll have two 0-win seasons. Our closest analogies would be ECU and Houston - neither school has been in a power conference, and both schools have made significant financial investments in their programs. The caveat here is both of those schools have had to deal with new coaches during the 12 years we've had 1 coach. The stats over the last 12 years are below.

Houston: 3 losing seasons (3, 5, and 5 wins). As many as 13 wins a couple years ago followed by a rebuilding year with 5 wins.
ECU: 3 losing seasons (2, 5 and 5 wins). As many as 9 wins followed by a rebuilding year with 6 wins.

Thoughts?

Let me ask this: How many of those losses mentioned were losses at home to 1-AA teams or Teams considered beatable? That's the real bad part of this season.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Here's the only stats that matters:

No its not.

 

[mattropolis]

This was kind of the point of my post. I didn't actually add up the total W-L over the last 12 years, but my guess is we'd be right around Houston's level (but ahead of ECU). And that is with two 0 win seasons. I guess I'd prefer going the route we have gone, but I think there are tons of coaches out there that can get us the wins and make the lows not be so low.

There sure are. I don't fear the future. I'm just not going to piss and moan about the current situation because there is nothing we can do about it but be fans, and the guy has probably earned himself one more year to turn things around. Like I've said many times before, what wee do next is going to be more important than what we've already accomplished.

 

[mattropolis]

False. Plenty of coaches do it for much less than we pay GOL:

Rod Carey - NIU ($1.5 million less than GOL) 4-3, 7 point loss to #1 OSU with much much much less talent (remember, GOL got blown out against them with one of our best teams ever).
Scott Satterfield - App State ($1.5 million less than GOL) 5-1, pounded inferior conference teams.
Matt Campbell - Toledo ($1.4 million less than GOL) 6-0, P5 win, ranked.
Willie Fritz - GA Southern ($1.4 million less than GOL) 5-1, pounded inferior conference teams.
Jeff Brohm - W. Ky ($1.3 million less than GOL) 6-1, P5 win, pounded inferior conference teams.
Matt Rhule - Temple ($1.2 million less than GOL) 6-0, P5 wins, win over UCF, ranked.
Justin Fuente - Memphis ($500k less than GOL) 6-0, P5 wins, ranked.
Any further questions?

Yes. What will their record look like in ten years at the same G5 school? It's sometimes not hard to do something for a couple of years at a program, then move on but none of these guys seem to have hung around any job that long...yet, with the execption of Willie Fritz that spent more than ten years at Central Missouri, where he won one, yes one conference title. He also had 8 of the 13 season where he won 7 or less games. He tore things up at Sam Houston state.

Rod Carey is 4-3 this year. Time to pull the plug? If it was our fanbase they sure would be talking about it.

Sattersfield was handed a team that went 8-4 the two previous season and took them to 4-8, then 7-5, then whatever he has done this year. Seems like they have made progress each year under him.

Matt Rhule. Guy has been 8-16 (5-11) in his last two seasons. He's made progress each year. Seems to be moving that program in the right direction. Let's see where he finished. In his second season GOL played for the conference title. I'm just saying to show what he did in his first two seasons, and Rhule was handed a program that had own 8-9 games in three of the previous four seasons.

Campbell has been pretty sold. No 10 win seasons and no conference titles.

Willie Fritz - Seems to be doing a bang-up job racking up wins and conference tiles.

Borhm was 8-5 his first year (4-4) in conference. They are doing well this year but let's see where they finish.

Fuente is En Fuego. Took a sh_t program and has made them much, much better. He was 7-17 (5-11) his first two seasons. They key here in assessing him against another coach is to see if he stays there long enough to go through Lynch finishing out his career, and then having to rebuild around a new QB. If he bails at or before Lynch graduates, hard to say what the guy can do over the long haul.

It seems like most coaches last less than 5 years at a place, and an article I previously link to showed that only 29% of the current coaches have been with their program more than 5 years so in all likelihood that is the new blueprint: Medicrity or worse for 1-2 years then success, coach leaves, repeat cycle. Sounds like what we've been through. Maybe we were trend-setters and didn't even realize it.

 

[EngAlum98]

Quit trying to make sense to the haters. The grass is always greener on the other side. They don't know what they have until it's gone.

 

[jetsaholic]

Yes. What will their record look like in ten years at the same G5 school? It's sometimes not hard to do something for a couple of years at a program, then move on but none of these guys seem to have hung around any job that long...yet, with the execption of Willie Fritz that spent more than ten years at Central Missouri, where he won one, yes one conference title. He also had 8 of the 13 season where he won 7 or less games. He tore things up at Sam Houston state.

Rod Carey is 4-3 this year. Time to pull the plug? If it was our fanbase they sure would be talking about it.

Sattersfield was handed a team that went 8-4 the two previous season and took them to 4-8, then 7-5, then whatever he has done this year. Seems like they have made progress each year under him.

Matt Rhule. Guy has been 8-16 (5-11) in his last two seasons. He's made progress each year. Seems to be moving that program in the right direction. Let's see where he finished. In his second season GOL played for the conference title. I'm just saying to show what he did in his first two seasons, and Rhule was handed a program that had own 8-9 games in three of the previous four seasons.

Campbell has been pretty sold. No 10 win seasons and no conference titles.

Willie Fritz - Seems to be doing a bang-up job racking up wins and conference tiles.

Borhm was 8-5 his first year (4-4) in conference. They are doing well this year but let's see where they finish.

Fuente is En Fuego. Took a sh_t program and has made them much, much better. He was 7-17 (5-11) his first two seasons. They key here in assessing him against another coach is to see if he stays there long enough to go through Lynch finishing out his career, and then having to rebuild around a new QB. If he bails at or before Lynch graduates, hard to say what the guy can do over the long haul.

It seems like most coaches last less than 5 years at a place, and an article I previously link to showed that only 29% of the current coaches have been with their program more than 5 years so in all likelihood that is the new blueprint: Medicrity or worse for 1-2 years then success, coach leaves, repeat cycle. Sounds like what we've been through. Maybe we were trend-setters and didn't even realize it.

Quit trying to make sense to the haters. The grass is always greener on the other side. They don't know what they have until it's gone.

You're both so quaint.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Quit trying to make sense to the haters. The grass is always greener on the other side. They don't know what they have until it's gone.

How do those nuts taste?