Interesting tax proposal

[Crazyhole]

It's being proposed in Nebraska so not really applicable to any of you guys, but it's an interesting conversation to have on what the future of taxation might look like.
https://www.ketv.com/article/lawmaker-seeks-to-eliminate-income-and-property-taxes/30648493

Basically just replace income and property tax with a consumption tax, with an automatic credit of 1000 bucks to keep it from being too regressive. Thoughts on the idea?

 

[Cubs79]

This is somewhat similar to what do in Tennessee it sounds like (other than the $1000 part) and I would prefer a low income tax and low sales tax to be honest. This doesn't really eliminate taxes, it just moves them from one thing to another. And you also have to be careful with this type of plan, because people who live on the borders of the state will just drive across state lines for a lot of their bigger purchases and pay a smaller sales tax.

 

[Crazyhole]

This is somewhat similar to what do in Tennessee it sounds like (other than the $1000 part) and I would prefer a low income tax and low sales tax to be honest. This doesn't really eliminate taxes, it just moves them from one thing to another. And you also have to be careful with this type of plan, because people who live on the borders of the state will just drive across state lines for a lot of their bigger purchases and pay a smaller sales tax.

My biggest concern is that it's a very regressive tax. It will discourage spending and encourage saving, which is already a big part of the problem. If they could couple this with a form of tax on passive income and investment growth that land at a higher level it could maybe balance itself out.

 

[Cubs79]

My biggest concern is that it's a very regressive tax. It will discourage spending and encourage saving, which is already a big part of the problem. If they could couple this with a form of tax on passive income and investment growth that land at a higher level it could maybe balance itself out.

Yeah, I have certainly never tried to calculate what I end up paying in taxes now, to what I would pay under a typical income tax system, but I do know that I pay a lot in sales tax throughout the year. If I am not mistaken we have the highest sales tax in the country (or maybe 2nd). A lot of people think the idea of no income tax sounds great, but in reality they are getting that money from somewhere, and in my case it is through sales tax.

 

[UCFWayne]

how about a 10% sales tax on everything....

 

[Crazyhole]

how about a 10% sales tax on everything....

That's basically what this is. The issue is that a single person who makes 100k per year probably doesn't spend as much as a family of 4 that makes 60k, so it becomes pretty regressive.

 

[Cubs79]

That's basically what this is. The issue is that a single person who makes 100k per year probably doesn't spend as much as a family of 4 that makes 60k, so it becomes pretty regressive.

Yes, it certainly puts more of a tax burden on the poor and lower class than it does the upper middle class and wealthy.

 

[UCFWayne]

That's basically what this is. The issue is that a single person who makes 100k per year probably doesn't spend as much as a family of 4 that makes 60k, so it becomes pretty regressive.

but everyone would pay the exact same, no questions about fairness. i would also probably put something in about nothing under $10 would have to pay tax.

i know it will never happen, but i can dream.

 

[Crazyhole]

Yes, it certainly puts more of a tax burden on the poor and lower class than it does the upper middle class and wealthy.

Imagine living next door to warren buffet, raising 3 kids and knowing that you're paying more real tax dollars than him.

 

[fried-chicken]

CONSUMPTION TAX IS REGRESSIVE.

IT IS A HORRIBLE WAY TO TAX.

RICH PEOPLE DONT SPEND THEIR WEALTH ON CONSUMPTION SO THEY ARE NOT TAXED.

POOR PEOPLE SPEND THEIR WEALTH ON CONSUMPTION SO THEY ARE TAXED.

ONLY IDIOTS WANT CONSUMPTION TAX.

 

[KingDavid]

 

[Crazyhole]

CONSUMPTION TAX IS REGRESSIVE.

IT IS A HORRIBLE WAY TO TAX.

RICH PEOPLE DONT SPEND THEIR WEALTH ON CONSUMPTION SO THEY ARE NOT TAXED.

POOR PEOPLE SPEND THEIR WEALTH ON CONSUMPTION SO THEY ARE TAXED.

ONLY IDIOTS WANT CONSUMPTION TAX.

So would you change anything in our tax code other than rates for income?

 

[sk8knight]

My biggest concern is that it's a very regressive tax. It will discourage spending and encourage saving, which is already a big part of the problem. If they could couple this with a form of tax on passive income and investment growth that land at a higher level it could maybe balance itself out.

All else being what it is, this country could do with people spending less and saving more.

 

[Cubs79]

All else being what it is, this country could do with people spending less and saving more.

Then you have a weaker economy. Yes, it is great to have savings, but if we decrease spending then people lose jobs.

 

[sk8knight]

Then you have a weaker economy. Yes, it is great to have savings, but if we decrease spending then people lose jobs.

Yes, but then you have more people that can operate without the government safety net. Thus you need to take less in taxes. Thus there's more money in the economy.

 

[Cubs79]

Yes, but then you have more people that can operate without the government safety net. Thus you need to take less in taxes. Thus there's more money in the economy.

People who need a government safety net typically just aren't making enough to save though.

 

[sk8knight]

People who need a government safety net typically just aren't making enough to save though.

There are plenty that are frugal with every cent and need the net and I am more than happy to help. There are also plenty that repeatedly make bad decisions and could save but don’t. I have a harder time wanting to help those people.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Looking for a tax system that doesn’t penalize me. Why should I pay a dime more than anyone else?

 

[fried-chicken]

Looking for a tax system that doesn’t penalize me. Why should I pay a dime more than anyone else?

Because you've benefited from generational wealth that allowed you to start several failed businesses without taking substantial risk since you knew you had support and you wouldn't lose your house when you failed. When you finally became successful it wasn't because of anything you were specifically good at it was because you could keep trying until you got it right with zero risk. Most people don't have such a soft safety net most people have the pavement to catch their fall if they fail. You knew your in laws would never allow you to lose your home or face financial hardship so you just kept trying over and over until you found something that worked. The worst part is, that you're oblivious to the factors that led to your success because you never had to really earn it.

Rich people paying higher taxes helps create just 5 or 10% of the safety net for Americans that you enjoyed throughout your entire life.

 

[firm_bizzle]

How are they taxing goods purchased online?

 

[firm_bizzle]

Looking for a tax system that doesn’t penalize me. Why should I pay a dime more than anyone else?

Because you are awesome. Thanks for your generosity.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Because you've benefited from generational wealth that allowed you to start several failed businesses without taking substantial risk since you knew you had support and you wouldn't lose your house when you failed. When you finally became successful it wasn't because of anything you were specifically good at it was because you could keep trying until you got it right with zero risk. Most people don't have such a soft safety net most people have the pavement to catch their fall if they fail. You knew your in laws would never allow you to lose your home or face financial hardship so you just kept trying over and over until you found something that worked. The worst part is, that you're oblivious to the factors that led to your success because you never had to really earn it.

Rich people paying higher taxes helps create just 5 or 10% of the safety net for Americans that you enjoyed throughout your entire life.

Gal, the OG snowflake

 

[Sir Galahad]

Funny but wrong as usual. My father died when I was young and my mother was a school lunch lady. My in-laws have passed away and left 100% of the trust to FSU. Swing and a miss, again.

 

[fried-chicken]

Funny but wrong as usual. My father died when I was young and my mother was a school lunch lady. My in-laws have passed away and left 100% of the trust to FSU. Swing and a miss, again.

What they left you isn't the same as knowing that you were never at risk of financial hardship while you took "risks" and started businesses. You probably got funding easier than most. You had a saftey net that people without your family don't have. Can you honestly say that you risked the same as someone that starts a business without having a wealthy family to back them up? You cannot possibly be that blind to the specific advantages you had. Taking full credit for your success is so incredibly pompous. You're not significantly smarter than anyone who could have done the same as you in your situation.

So why should you pay more? Because you're not special. You enjoy a better life than the poorest in America and you're a product of your environment not exceptional skill. You literally fall for fake news conspiracy theories all the time so I doubt that you are some sort of savant business wizard.

You aren't going to bull shit me on this I have had the same advantages with regard to risk in starting a business. I started it with my own money but I knew I could keep a roof over my kids heads if it went belly up and my family is probably only 20% as well off as yours was.

I refuse to believe you can't understand that you had advantages in your life over the average American and that your increased tax burden goes to create only a fraction of the safety net that took you to where you are.

 

[NinjaKnight]

What they left you isn't the same as knowing that you were never at risk of financial hardship while you took "risks" and started businesses. You probably got funding easier than most. You had a saftey net that people without your family don't have. Can you honestly say that you risked the same as someone that starts a business without having a wealthy family to back them up? You cannot possibly be that blind to the specific advantages you had. Taking full credit for your success is so incredibly pompous. You're not significantly smarter than anyone who could have done the same as you in your situation.

So why should you pay more? Because you're not special. You enjoy a better life than the poorest in America and you're a product of your environment not exceptional skill. You literally fall for fake news conspiracy theories all the time so I doubt that you are some sort of savant business wizard.

You aren't going to bull shit me on this I have had the same advantages with regard to risk in starting a business. I started it with my own money but I knew I could keep a roof over my kids heads if it went belly up and my family is probably only 20% as well off as yours was.

I refuse to believe you can't understand that you had advantages in your life over the average American and that your increased tax burden goes to create only a fraction of the safety net that took you to where you are.

$20 says you get added to his ignore list for pointing out how goddamn stupid he is.

Gal is like most boomers and has an incredibly pathetic ego, the ultimate snowflake generation and get super triggered when you point out their flaws.

 

[fried-chicken]

Rich people literally cannot understand that there are poor people with the same work ethic and intelligence as them. It hurts their ego to feel that they are lucky and not just a product of pulling on their bootstraps.

How many times have you heard that poor people are lazy? It's practically the Republican moto, convince everyone that people are poor because they don't work hard and not because the wealthy who own the means of production in America have spent 50 years doing everything they can to lower wage expense (that means your paycheck). There's people in this country that work their asses off for 25k, 35k or 45k per year to support a whole family. Most of them aren't lazy they just don't have an easy path to success and the real wages in this country have stayed about the same while our GDP has doubled.

Only the incredibly obtuse attribute their entire success to work ethic. The ones who actually understand business know that the little introduction from a family member at a dinner or a sporting event might seem small but can often send you down the path to success. People without successful families do not get those introductions.

Enjoy your boat @Sir Galahad, but don't complain about your taxes because everyone knows you didn't risk as much as you claim to enjoy the life you have. I'm happy for you but when you don't even acknowledge your own advantages it comes off extremely arrogant.

 

[Sir Galahad]

What they left you isn't the same as knowing that you were never at risk of financial hardship while you took "risks" and started businesses. You probably got funding easier than most. You had a saftey net that people without your family don't have. Can you honestly say that you risked the same as someone that starts a business without having a wealthy family to back them up? You cannot possibly be that blind to the specific advantages you had. Taking full credit for your success is so incredibly pompous. You're not significantly smarter than anyone who could have done the same as you in your situation.

So why should you pay more? Because you're not special. You enjoy a better life than the poorest in America and you're a product of your environment not exceptional skill. You literally fall for fake news conspiracy theories all the time so I doubt that you are some sort of savant business wizard.

You aren't going to bull shit me on this I have had the same advantages with regard to risk in starting a business. I started it with my own money but I knew I could keep a roof over my kids heads if it went belly up and my family is probably only 20% as well off as yours was.

I refuse to believe you can't understand that you had advantages in your life over the average American and that your increased tax burden goes to create only a fraction of the safety net that took you to where you are.

Unlike you I NEVER received a penny from my in-laws. Put myself through school, worked my up, been through two IPO’s on my third. No One gave me shit unlike you. Just because you failed on your own doesn’t me the rest of us have.

 

[UCFKnightfan08]

I don’t know a damn thing about SirG’s personal life, financial situation, businesses (failed or successful) but lets assume everything FC said it 100% true - why is Sir G responsible for providing a “safety net” that you referred to? Someone in his family worked their ass off to set up future generations for success (again, knowing nothing about his situation and assuming FC is giving a legit description).

 

[NinjaKnight]

I don’t know a damn thing about SirG’s personal life, financial situation, businesses (failed or successful) but lets assume everything FC said it 100% true - why is Sir G responsible for providing a “safety net” that you referred to? Someone in his family worked their ass off to set up future generations for success (again, knowing nothing about his situation and assuming FC is giving a legit description).

I know you don't care about facts or reality, but there have been a gazillion studies showing that the key to becoming rich is not hard work.

 

[fried-chicken]

Unlike you I NEVER received a penny from my in-laws. Put myself through school, worked my up, been through two IPO’s on my third. No One gave me shit unlike you. Just because you failed on your own doesn’t me the rest of us have.

I didn't say they did. I said you never had to worry about losing your house. You knew you would never be allowed to really fail.

You shared before that several of your businesses didn't make it. That would be enough to do significant financial damage to most people. You just got to keep on trying though.

The fact that you don't see that you just married into the freedom to negate all real risk is pretty telling. You feel that you shouldn't have to pay more taxes because you feel like you earned everything you have and you totally discount the situation you happened to find yourself in. Had you married in your own pay scale you'd have been bankrupt. Since you married into a higher pay scale you are online complaining about your taxes helping people in worse situations than you.

 

[fried-chicken]

I don’t know a damn thing about SirG’s personal life, financial situation, businesses (failed or successful) but lets assume everything FC said it 100% true - why is Sir G responsible for providing a “safety net” that you referred to? Someone in his family worked their ass off to set up future generations for success (again, knowing nothing about his situation and assuming FC is giving a legit description).

"They worked their asses off!" HURRR DURRRR

So do a lot of people, who cares? Again with this rich people are rich because they work hard nonsense. Does Kim Kardashian work harder than the factory worker welding down the road is she smarter? She literally ****ed a rapper to get her start but she came from an important family.

 

[UCFKnightfan08]

"They worked their asses off!" HURRR DURRRR

So do a lot of people, who cares? Again with this rich people are rich because they work hard nonsense. Does Kim Kardashian work harder than the factory worker welding down the road is she smarter? She literally ****ed a rapper to get her start but she came from an important family.

not my main point but whatever. Main point: SirG doesn’t run his business to provide a “safety net” for anyone else.

 

[fried-chicken]

not my main point but whatever. Main point: SirG doesn’t run his business to provide a “safety net” for anyone else.

Well when you've thrived in a system that rewards people for who they married vs their merits the least you can do is make sure others who don't have the ability to marry wealth can feed their children. Even if you think they aren't working hard and that they are lazy because they make only 30k per year in their full time job.

 

[sk8knight]

Well when you've thrived in a system that rewards people for who they married vs their merits the least you can do is make sure others who don't have the ability to marry wealth can feed their children. Even if you think they aren't working hard and that they are lazy because they make only 30k per year in their full time job.

I find it interesting that you want to reward people for their merits but then complain about that hard work benefitting the children.

Also, trying to boil the argument down to hard work should equal success is a ridiculous misunderstanding of how the world works. Of course, that mentality fits right in with the worldview that Guevara, Castro, Maduro, Stalin, et al proposed. How’d that work out for the people of those countries?

 

[UCFKnight85]

I find it interesting that you want to reward people for their merits but then complain about that hard work benefitting the children.

Also, trying to boil the argument down to hard work should equal success is a ridiculous misunderstanding of how the world works. Of course, that mentality fits right in with the worldview that Guevara, Castro, Maduro, Stalin, et al proposed. How’d that work out for the people of those countries?

You’re addressing someone who thinks wealthy people are basically all Kin Kardashian since that’s actually the example he used to scoff at the idea that most wealthy people do, in fact, work their ass off and make socially responsible decisions to build wealth. Something that is troubling for the modern liberal worldview.

Shook gets more and more delusional by the year over here. The Russia hoax exploded in his face and now he’s reduced to pure insanity, up to and including pushing ideas that Trump tried to kill a sitting Ambassador

 

[Crazyhole]

Well when you've thrived in a system that rewards people for who they married vs their merits the least you can do is make sure others who don't have the ability to marry wealth can feed their children. Even if you think they aren't working hard and that they are lazy because they make only 30k per year in their full time job.

Last I checked, nobody is going hungry in this country regardless of income.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Last I checked, nobody is going hungry in this country regardless of income.

Last time I checked you're an absolute moron.


In 2017, 40 million people struggled with hunger in the United States.[1]

Reference: Feeding America. “Facts About Hunger and Poverty in America.” Feeding America, 2017. Web accessed April 16, 2019. ↩︎

https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-hunger-us

 

[fried-chicken]

Last I checked, nobody is going hungry in this country regardless of income.

Hahaha. Well you get your news spoon fed to you from people who only care about lowering taxes. For many children in America the meal they get at school is the only meal they eat each day.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Hahaha. Well you get your news spoon fed to you from people who only care about lowering taxes. For many children in America the meal they get at school is the only meal they eat each day.

Cue knight08: "well hurr Durr why should we pay for them lazy kids to eat?!? Pull yours of up by the boot strap and make a million bucks"

 

[Crazyhole]

Hahaha. Well you get your news spoon fed to you from people who only care about lowering taxes. For many children in America the meal they get at school is the only meal they eat each day.

Less than 1/10 of 1% of americans are chronically hungry. You guys conflate food insecurity with hunger. Nobody is going hungry to the point of worrying about.