Is Baseball in Trouble?

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by UCFWayne, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    13,100
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Location:
    Casselberry
  2. Brandon

    Brandon Publisher
    Staff
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    Messages:
    94,048
    Likes Received:
    67,936
    Location:
    Winter Park, FL
    It's been a freezing April almost everywhere in the U.S. other than Florida. Can't really take this seriously unless the trend continues into the summer.
     
  3. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    Baseball is making more money than ever.

    It’s been snowing for half the league still. People aren’t gonna sit in snow flurries.
     
    USFSucks likes this.
  4. Poolside Knight

    Poolside Knight Diamond Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    Messages:
    11,437
    Likes Received:
    7,292
    The average age of regular viewers is a lot higher than the other pro leagues which doesn't bode well for the future. The sport is localized to the NE, LA, and Chicago. Those markets will get the attendance and ratings but you are going to get a lot of the nation tuned out with all the tanking.
     
  5. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    Hmmm you may want to tell that to the Rays who just signed a new TV deal that is bigger than the entire MLS annual TV contract annually

    Or StLouis which is considered one of the best base all cities in America
     
  6. Poolside Knight

    Poolside Knight Diamond Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    Messages:
    11,437
    Likes Received:
    7,292
    using the Rays as an example of the state of MLB
    [​IMG]
     
    NinjaKnight and USFSucks like this.
  7. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    ??? They just signed a new massive TV deal

    Are you denying this?
     
  8. btbones

    btbones Todd's Tiki Bar
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Messages:
    25,846
    Likes Received:
    13,689
    Location:
    Beautiful northwest volusia county Florida
    I’m waiting for his answer as well
     
  9. KnighttimeJoe

    KnighttimeJoe Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    15,413
    Likes Received:
    5,590
    It’s pretty simple:

    Very early start to the season + shitty weather (six games alone are canceled today) = lower attendance. The Cubs have had three games canceled so far. They should have canceled Saturday’s game since it was, in the words of several players, the coldest and worst conditions in which they’ve ever played. The Royals v. Angels on Saturday was played in a damn snowstorm.
     
  10. bqknight

    bqknight Silver Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,781
    Likes Received:
    707
    That's not accurate. The Rays deal is set to be $50M/year for now and would average out to be $82M/year. The deal runs until 2033 too.

    MLS deal is worth about $90 mill a year and runs until 2022, which, unless something weird happens, you can expect that to rise, just at the fact their adding teams.

    The Rays deal is also for ALL Rays games (unless they're on national TV). This is for a few games on the weekend. I don't think the amount of games would even add up to a whole baseball season.

    Anyway, Baseball sucks and unless it changes, I see it running into issues once the current generation of fans isn't there.
     
    UCFWayne likes this.
  11. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    Ok soccer fan. The MLS is an embarrassment
     
    USFSucks likes this.
  12. bqknight

    bqknight Silver Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,781
    Likes Received:
    707
    It’s not.

    And I was just saying your statement was wrong, because it was.
     
  13. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    The fact remains that a “poor” MLB team basically has the same sized TV deal as the entire MLS
     
  14. bqknight

    bqknight Silver Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,781
    Likes Received:
    707
    K... I never claimed otherwise.
     
  15. Poolside Knight

    Poolside Knight Diamond Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    Messages:
    11,437
    Likes Received:
    7,292
    Comparing the league with the NBA is a more fair fight. NBA has a much brighter future than MLB.

    MLS is a Triple A Retirement league for the World's best players, until you get La Liga talent teams in the U.S(which might never happen). it's a dumb comparison
     
  16. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    You keep saying these things yet nothing supports your thesis.

    Baseball last year esclipsed $10B in revenue- which marks the 16th straight year of revenue growth. Despite attendance which plagues every sports league now, television ratings are through the roof.

    TV networks are not shelling out huge money for 10 year contracts to capture the older demographic.

    The NBA is half the size of the MLB. $5B total.
     
  17. 1ofTheseKnights

    1ofTheseKnights Todd's Tiki Bar
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    28,456
    Likes Received:
    7,889
    Location:
    Sarasota
    Global warming will start any day now Copernicus
     
    Poolside Knight likes this.
  18. Happy Hands

    Happy Hands Silver Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,032
    Likes Received:
    3,535
    College ladies bowling was on ESPN yesterday. It was still a better product than the NBA. The fact that people will watch anything, let's me know that baseball will be ok.

    I'm not joking when I say that there exists a sport where teams rarely score more that 4 points a game combined and it is popular. Basically the players run up and down the field for an hour and a half and often flop about if they get kicked in the shin. Every team has a special scarf for the fans to wear.
     
  19. sk8knight

    sk8knight Golden Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    The demographics do not bode well for baseball’s future. Marketwatch.com has run some articles tracking viewership demos and participation and predicts an upturn for soccer and a downturn for baseball. With that said, baseball is far higher than MLS right now and will remain that way for quite a while. Now, if the Health concerns in football destroy that sport then we should see a big change in all of the viewership patterns.

    From marketwatch.com: “Baseball has the oldest viewers of the top major sports, with 50% of its audience 55 or older (up from 41% a decade ago), according to Nielsen ratings. The average age of baseball viewers is 53, compared with 47 for the NFL and 37 for the NBA, according to the ratings. And fewer young people are playing the sport: The number of people between the ages of 7 and 17 playing baseball in the U.S. decreased by 41% from 9 million in 2002 to 5.3 million in 2013.”

    Also from marketwatch.com: “The biggest growth potential, however, comes from soccer. Major League Soccer’s average audience of 308,000 last year is small by just about any standard, but up nearly 20% from a decade earlier. Fox Sports 1’s MLS average of 188,000 is similarly tiny, but more than double what the former Fox Soccer drew during its last year of MLS broadcasts in 2011. Most tellingly, the 696,000 that the MLS drew to five Fox network-television broadcasts last year was the league’s highest viewership ever — on any channel.

    MLS viewers are an average of just 40 years old, and 15% are younger than 18. The only other leagues with that kind of following among kids are also soccer related: The English Premier League (43 on average, 10% under 18), international soccer like Fox and ESPN’s UEFA Champions League coverage (39 on average, 13% under 18) and Mexico’s Liga MX (39 on average, 17% under 18).”
     
    Poolside Knight and UCFWayne like this.
  20. bqknight

    bqknight Silver Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,781
    Likes Received:
    707
    LOL. Love the outdated MLS takes. There has been a shift in what players are coming to MLS. Yes, there are still some "outdated" EPL players but for the most part there has been a big push for young, South American talent.

    It's still got a good bit of growing to do but the growth in just the last 5 years is incredible. Remember, this league didn't play their first game until about 20 years ago.

    MLB has been around since, what, the early 1900's?

    I don't think MLS is anywhere close to taking over pretty much any other major sports league in the USA. Not yet anyway but the sh!t it gets is outdated.
     
    UCFWayne likes this.
  21. Ace of Knights

    Ace of Knights Bronze Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    1,271
    I’m not worried about baseball. It’s viewersh has been older recently but football peaked and is starting its decent. Couple that with the fact that youth football is down across the board which I believe has led to a surge in youth baseball and soccer participation. That will eventually lead to a change in viewing.

    Wasn’t the World Series the highest rated ever last year? And their regional numbers are typically good as well.
     
  22. KNIGHTTIME^

    KNIGHTTIME^ Golden Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,210
    Likes Received:
    830
    MLB is doing great. The weather is the big factor right now. They make so much money off the TV deal.

    MLS is somewhere around NHL (probably lower). I went to a recent Orlando City game and the stadium holds like 28K I believe and probably had 6K or more empty seats. They don't play many games so getting that few is a real joke for a Saturday game. I'm glad we have a MLS team, but lets not make it bigger than it really is. It is a only followed by a very niche crowd....usually younger hipster crowd. I was able to get tickets 4 rows up in the lower bowl for $20 each on Stubhub if that shows you the demand.
     
  23. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    No, it's doomed. The soccer fans tell us so- all the time.

    Might as well pack up the MLB and close it down.
     
  24. KnighttimeJoe

    KnighttimeJoe Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    15,413
    Likes Received:
    5,590
    I’ll say this (by no means is it scientific): most of my hardcore football friends who played high school or college ball currently have their boys in tee ball or soccer. Football isn’t going away but both baseball and soccer are going to benefit from parents who don’t want to risk their kids on the gridiron.
     
  25. bqknight

    bqknight Silver Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,781
    Likes Received:
    707
    Oh, look. Hyperbole from 85. SHOCKER!

    I even made a point to say I don't think MLS is anywhere near any of the other leagues, including MLB.
     
    Poolside Knight likes this.
  26. btbones

    btbones Todd's Tiki Bar
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Messages:
    25,846
    Likes Received:
    13,689
    Location:
    Beautiful northwest volusia county Florida
    I consider soccer to be way too young in the US to really compare it to the others . If it can hold its own for a few more years then I think the potential for Growth will really expand
     
  27. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    13,100
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Location:
    Casselberry
    i dont think baseball is in trouble right now, but over the next decade i think it will see a decline. i think it will still remain one of the top sports in america, but i think we will see soccer gain more ground over that time.

    mls is closest to the nhl. i think its possible to see a shift after mls gets its next media rights deal in 2023. the demographics definitely favor soccer.

    by all accounts soccer is actually one of the most popular sports in america. liga mx and epl both get great ratings. that said, mls gets mostly lower ratings but continues to grow year over year. soccer fits in with the younger generations because its only 2 hours long and is considered a world game. mls has shown slow but steady growth over the past decade and i believe that will be the case over the next decade.
     
    siroz99 likes this.
  28. Ace of Knights

    Ace of Knights Bronze Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    1,271
    Yep, Orlando City isn’t even selling their stadium out consistently anymore. The novelty of the team and stadium is fading and until the last three games they have been terrible.

    Soccer will continue to grow in popularity in the US and I expect the MLS to keep growing but it’s not the best in the world so it will always be hindered to a certain extent.
     
  29. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    I'm not talking specifically about you, but between this board and the Dungeon, I've listened to MANY soccer fanboys insist that the MLS will surpass the MLB in just a matter of years. They're convinced, beyond all fact and logic that is presented.
     
  30. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    IMO football will be on life support in 10 years or so. That's not hyperbole. I don't know any parents allowing their kids to play football and we've already decided that ours won't either. It's been scientifically proven that football is absolutely awful for a brain in general, but even worse for a child's brain. They've now found in studies that high school kids were contracting CTE without even sustaining concussions- regular hits in the game were enough.

    Soon enough it'll be tough for high schools to sponsor football in its' present form, given the liability they'll incur knowing that all of this research on CTE is coming out.

    That said, soccer has always been a popular sport for young kids in America. I played it. The thing is that by the time kids reach the age where competitive leagues are the norm, they ditch soccer and pick baseball, football, or basketball. I just think baseball and basketball will pick up more kids at the high school level.
     
  31. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    13,100
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Location:
    Casselberry
    kids used to pick those sports because lets face it, there was no money in soccer. now all the actual best leagues in the world are easily accessible on saturday and sunday mornings. they now know there is a ton of money in soccer and can become global sports icons. also there are a ton of great athletes that simply arent tall enough to make it in the other sports. you dont have to be tall to play soccer well.

    my wifes sister just graduated from hs last year. soccer was one of the most popular sports they watched. students could easily name soccer stars. they would struggle to name more than a few baseball stars. of course, nfl and nba were king.

    of course thats a hs in south florida. it could easily be the other way around in different parts of the country.
     
    DHodges34 and Poolside Knight like this.
  32. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    There's money in soccer? Maybe overseas where there's a tiny handful of Americans playing. The MLS is far from a big money league.
     
  33. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    13,100
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Location:
    Casselberry
    Of course there is money in soccer, in fact, there is big money in soccer. MLS is not a top 10 league in the world, maybe one day it will be.

    https://www.forbes.com/pictures/5924841ba7ea434078d44dcf/the-worlds-highest-paid-s/#7dbb67142f07
    • Christiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid) – $93 million.
    • Lionel Messi (Barcelona) – $80 million.
    • Neymar Jr (Barcelona) – $37 million.
    • Gareth Bale (Real Madrid) – $34 million.
    • Zlatan Ibrahimovic (Manchester United) – $27 million.
    https://nypost.com/2017/06/07/the-top-25-highest-paid-athletes-in-the-world-for-2017-are/

    Forbes has released their 2017 list of the top 25 athletes in the world, and the athletes earning top-dollar come from across the spectrum. There are eight NBA players, four golfers, four soccer players, three race car drivers, two NFL players, two tennis players, a fighter and a runner.
     
  34. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    Um yes, I said there was money overseas, which all of those players are.

    Europeans playing in European leagues.
     
  35. Happy Hands

    Happy Hands Silver Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,032
    Likes Received:
    3,535
    I'll say this, Atlanta United is still killing it in attendance. Having a really nice indoor stadium helps. Mostly, I just think people want to see where UCF claimed their Natty.
     
  36. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    13,100
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Location:
    Casselberry
    kids werent exposed to european soccer leagues until the past decade where soccer was finally put on tv here. kids watch these games regularly and they get great ratings. their ratings are better than the nhl. kids now know that they can make big money in soccer, something that they didnt know about in the past. that is what i was saying.

    because of that knowledge in potential earnings, you will probably see more kids stick with soccer now vs in the past. more americans will start to play overseas in the coming decade. in fact there are more now than there have been in the past.

    also i didnt realize messi or neymar were european. learn something new every day....
     
    DHodges34 and Poolside Knight like this.
  37. Poolside Knight

    Poolside Knight Diamond Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    Messages:
    11,437
    Likes Received:
    7,292
    lol at 85 raging against soccer so much

    I used to be that close minded about it years ago but going to an Orlando City game is a much better atmosphere/experience than watching a Rays game in an empty ballpark that looks like a Sams Club.
     
  38. KNIGHTTIME^

    KNIGHTTIME^ Golden Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,210
    Likes Received:
    830
    LOL. It makes sense now
     
    Happy Hands and UCFWayne like this.
  39. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    58,341
    Likes Received:
    20,042
    lol at soccer fans still making wild claims that are rooted in absolutely no fact.

    Way to make a comparison using the Rays, by the way. Pretty much everyone agrees they need a new park, which is why the talk around Tampa for the past 10 years has been where they'll move to.

    I've been to EPL games in England. They're fairly fun, even when you get to see a whopping 3 shots all game. But MLS games for the most part have the feel of a AA minor league game with the talent to match.
     
  40. Poolside Knight

    Poolside Knight Diamond Knight
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    Messages:
    11,437
    Likes Received:
    7,292
    You do the same thing with political discussions as you are doing in this topic. If anyone doesn't agree with 100% of your post you go to absolutes and labels. Read my posts, I'm not some scarf wearing soccer lover. I said the in person experience of an Orlando City game is better than the Rays. That's it. And @sk8knight posted the age numbers that my first reply as to why I and a lot of people think baseball's future could have issues. Hell Derek Jeter is a part owner of a team and he acknowledged this.
     
    UCFWayne likes this.

Share This Page