Jemel Hill wants to bring back segregation now

[Husk in butt]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-wants-black-athletes-to-leave-white-colleges


My only guess is she is looking for attention. I don't believe she actually believes blue Chip athletes need to leave to play Div 2 with little exposure, coaching experience, etc. I'm pretty sure most campus don't consider themselves "white" colleges either.

 

[Crazyhole]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-wants-black-athletes-to-leave-white-colleges


My only guess is she is looking for attention. I don't believe she actually believes blue Chip athletes need to leave to play Div 2 with little exposure, coaching experience, etc. I'm pretty sure most campus don't consider themselves "white" colleges either.

People like this truly do want 2 countries based on racial lines.

 

[Cubs79]

Her point wasn't about segregation, it was about saving HBCU's, many of which are very good schools but struggle financially. Top tier athletes going to those schools would provide a financial boost to them.

 

[sk8knight]

People like this truly do want 2 countries based on racial lines.

I don't think that I'll ever understand people who advocate segregation as a solution for institutional racism.

 

[sk8knight]

Her point wasn't about segregation, it was about saving HBCU's, many of which are very good schools but struggle financially. Top tier athletes going to those schools would provide a financial boost to them.

Athletic departments don't save schools.

 

[Cubs79]

Athletic departments don't save schools.

They certainly don't hurt them. Smaller schools almost always benefit from having deep runs in the NCAA tournament and things of that nature, because it is essentially free advertising for the school.

 

[Cubs79]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...-athletes-should-leave-white-colleges/596629/

BTW, here is the actual article, since the link posted in this thread was an opinion about the article, and not the article it self.

 

[sk8knight]

They certainly don't hurt them.

They certainly can and do. Not just HBCU's either.

 

[Cubs79]

They certainly can and do. Not just HBCU's either.

Not if they are ran properly. (I was editing while you responded) But smaller schools that pull off upsets in the NCAA tournament and things of that nature almost always have more applications and people looking into the school. It is essentially free advertising. So yeah, Zion Williamson or someone of that stature, going to FAMU or Howard instead of Duke, would have certainly been a huge deal to those schools.

 

[UCFWayne]

They certainly don't hurt them. Smaller schools almost always benefit from having deep runs in the NCAA tournament and things of that nature, because it is essentially free advertising for the school.

almost every single football team loses money except for the p5.

 

[Crazyhole]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...-athletes-should-leave-white-colleges/596629/

BTW, here is the actual article, since the link posted in this thread was an opinion about the article, and not the article it self.

Moreover, some black students feel safer, both physically and emotionally, on an HBCU campus—all the more so as racial tensions have risen in recent years. Navigating a predominantly white campus as a black student can feel isolating, even for athletes. Davon Dillard is a basketball player who transferred to Shaw University after Oklahoma State dismissed him for disciplinary reasons. “Going to a school where most of the people are the same color as you, it’s almost like you can let your guard down a little bit,” he told me.

If I said that I feel like I can put my guard down when I'm around more white people I would be labeled a racist, and I'm not even 100% white. This kid says this and some people immediately jump to the conclusion that white people are doing things that make him uncomfortable, so it's justified. If I say Mexicans make me feel uncomfortable then I'm just a bigot. I really hate this double standard.

 

[Cubs79]

almost every single football team loses money except for the p5.

A lot of smaller schools don't have football, or are FBS and don't have nearly the expenses of major college football.

 

[UCFWayne]

A lot of smaller schools don't have football, or are FBS and don't have nearly the expenses of major college football.

there are 130 schools in div1 and i dont even know how many there are in div 2. if they dont have a massive p5 tv deal, they lose money. this is not up for debate.

 

[EweSeaEff]

Not if they are ran properly. (I was editing while you responded) But smaller schools that pull off upsets in the NCAA tournament and things of that nature almost always have more applications and people looking into the school. It is essentially free advertising. So yeah, Zion Williamson or someone of that stature, going to FAMU or Howard instead of Duke, would have certainly been a huge deal to those schools.

Counterpoint: Zion goes to FAMU or Howard and, sure, there's an initial pop in interest in the school. However, television contracts govern and few to no FAMU or Howard games are broadcast nationally so no one seems him regularly (except for SportsCenter highlights from time to time), so that "pop" diminishes over time. Zion also plays against far inferior competition, so no one can really tell whether he's up for the challenge of facing elite athletes at the next level. This ends up hurting Zion, his wallet and his potential ability (a-la Lebron, etc.) to use his profile and celebrity status to fight for social justice (assuming that's one of his interests anyway).

 

[Cubs79]

Moreover, some black students feel safer, both physically and emotionally, on an HBCU campus—all the more so as racial tensions have risen in recent years. Navigating a predominantly white campus as a black student can feel isolating, even for athletes. Davon Dillard is a basketball player who transferred to Shaw University after Oklahoma State dismissed him for disciplinary reasons. “Going to a school where most of the people are the same color as you, it’s almost like you can let your guard down a little bit,” he told me.

If I said that I feel like I can put my guard down when I'm around more white people I would be labeled a racist, and I'm not even 100% white. This kid says this and some people immediately jump to the conclusion that white people are doing things that make him uncomfortable, so it's justified. If I say Mexicans make me feel uncomfortable then I'm just a bigot. I really hate this double standard.

It isn't a double standard, it is the power structure. The sole reason HBCU's exist in the first place is because African American's weren't allowed in many universities for a good portion of our countries history. So to act like now that wanting HBCU's to thrive is somehow racist is ridiculous.

But if a person of color says they don't feel comfortable around white people, and your immediate response is to think that person is in the wrong, then maybe examine it a bit more.

 

[Cubs79]

there are 130 schools in div1 and i dont even know how many there are in div 2. if they dont have a massive p5 tv deal, they lose money. this is not up for debate.

But we aren't just talking about football and the initial post you quoted of mine was quite specifically referencing basketball.

 

[Husk in butt]

Not if they are ran properly. (I was editing while you responded) But smaller schools that pull off upsets in the NCAA tournament and things of that nature almost always have more applications and people looking into the school. It is essentially free advertising. So yeah, Zion Williamson or someone of that stature, going to FAMU or Howard instead of Duke, would have certainly been a huge deal to those schools.

Zion Williamson got his mom living in a mansion while playing at Duke. Probably another $200,000 from Nike. He doesn't owe a specific school anything especially when the talent level, coaching, exposure, etc will be much less at a HBCU.

I'm hoping there is no such thing as a black college in another 10 years. Time to live together, study, etc.

 

[Cubs79]

Counterpoint: Zion goes to FAMU or Howard and, sure, there's an initial pop in interest in the school. However, television contracts govern and few to no FAMU or Howard games are broadcast nationally so no one seems him regularly (except for SportsCenter highlights from time to time), so that "pop" diminishes over time. Zion also plays against far inferior competition, so no one can really tell whether he's up for the challenge of facing elite athletes at the next level. This ends up hurting Zion, his wallet and his potential ability (a-la Lebron, etc.) to use his profile and celebrity status to fight for social justice (assuming that's one of his interests anyway).

Television goes to the product. If some of the top teams in the country are HBCU's., then TV is going to show those games.

Plus that isn't really true in basketball. Players leave after 1 year all the time and used to leave after high school against HS competition and were drafted early. Guys are also drafted frequently from other countries where they haven't competed against the same competition.

 

[Cubs79]

Zion Williamson got his mom living in a mansion while playing at Duke. Probably another $200,000 from Nike. He doesn't owe a specific school anything especially when the talent level, coaching, exposure, etc will be much less at a HBCU.

I'm hoping there is no such thing as a black college in another 10 years. Time to live together, study, etc.

They are "Historically" Black colleges. White people are more than welcome to go to school there as well.

Nobody said he owed any school anything, I was just bringing up a recent big name player.

 

[sk8knight]

Television goes to the product. If some of the top teams in the country are HBCU's., then TV is going to show those games.

Plus that isn't really true in basketball. Players leave after 1 year all the time and used to leave after high school against HS competition and were drafted early. Guys are also drafted frequently from other countries where they haven't competed against the same competition.

It's college sports. People follow their alma mater. TV follows the viewers, not the talent. Sure, there may be a spike here or there, but there is no meritocracy in college sports.

For an athletic department to save the HBCU, the athletic department would need to draw donations to the school that can be used for the general fund or academics. They would need to attract people to the HBCU that are going to school there because of the athletic department that aren't athletes. They would need to be able to generate enough athletic revenue to not only be self-sufficient but to also build up the rest of the college so that everything other than athletics can compete with the other schools. Bottom line, the schools aren't failing because they aren't good at sports and they won't be saved by getting better at sports.

 

[Crazyhole]

It isn't a double standard, it is the power structure. The sole reason HBCU's exist in the first place is because African American's weren't allowed in many universities for a good portion of our countries history. So to act like now that wanting HBCU's to thrive is somehow racist is ridiculous.

But if a person of color says they don't feel comfortable around white people, and your immediate response is to think that person is in the wrong, then maybe examine it a bit more.

You just perfectly displayed the double standard

 

[Cubs79]

It's college sports. People follow their alma mater. TV follows the viewers, not the talent. Sure, there may be a spike here or there, but there is no meritocracy in college sports.

For an athletic department to save the HBCU, the athletic department would need to draw donations to the school that can be used for the general fund or academics. They would need to attract people to the HBCU that are going to school there because of the athletic department that aren't athletes. They would need to be able to generate enough athletic revenue to not only be self-sufficient but to also build up the rest of the college so that everything other than athletics can compete with the other schools. Bottom line, the schools aren't failing because they aren't good at sports and they won't be saved by getting better at sports.

That isn't true. Duke is one the most popular basketball teams in the country, despite the fact it is a small extremely elite school. The majority of Duke basketball fans most certainly did not go to Duke. The reason Duke became a big TV draw is because of talented players, not because of Alumni. I think this is true of many teams. If it was just alumni then the best TV schools with regards to ratings would simply be the schools with the largest alumni base, but that certainly isn't the case much of the time. I don't think Rutgers and NYU are ratings power houses, yet both have large alumni bases.

Again, good sports programs are almost like free advertising. Smaller schools especially, always get a bump in applications if they make a splash in the NCAA tournament, sell more tickets the following year, etc etc.


I am not saying that HBCU's should only focus on sports or that kids should have to go to an HBCU obviously, but her point isn't unreasonable either. I certainly don't think its controversial. Many HBCU's are good schools, so why shouldn't she (or anyone) want them to do well in sports?

 

[Cubs79]

You just perfectly displayed the double standard

Double standards only work if things are equal. The treatment of races in this country has most certainly not always been equal, and you can argue it still isn't equal today.

 

[Crazyhole]

Double standards only work if things are equal. The treatment of races in this country has most certainly not always been equal, and you can argue it still isn't equal today.

So the black athlete wasn't comfortable around white athletes because of the power structure. Lol. I guess a white person should be comfortable anywhere at anytime because they have the power structure behind them.

 

[UCFWayne]

jemel hill is a racist. i dont take anything she says seriously.

athletic departments generally lose money expect for all but the biggest schools. if they focused more on sports, it would likely only hurt them more. if they are struggling, its not because of sports.

 

[Cubs79]

So the black athlete wasn't comfortable around white athletes because of the power structure. Lol. I guess a white person should be comfortable anywhere at anytime because they have the power structure behind them.

Take it up with the person who said it. You are basically arguing that his experiences aren't real. I don't know, I am not him. Go ask him and explain to him why he is out of line and you know better.

Nobody said anything about a white person being comfortable anywhere anytime.

 

[sk8knight]

That isn't true. Duke is one the most popular basketball teams in the country, despite the fact it is a small extremely elite school. The majority of Duke basketball fans most certainly did not go to Duke. The reason Duke became a big TV draw is because of talented players, not because of Alumni. I think this is true of many teams. If it was just alumni then the best TV schools with regards to ratings would simply be the schools with the largest alumni base, but that certainly isn't the case much of the time. I don't think Rutgers and NYU are ratings power houses, yet both have large alumni bases.

Again, good sports programs are almost like free advertising. Smaller schools especially, always get a bump in applications if they make a splash in the NCAA tournament, sell more tickets the following year, etc etc.


I am not saying that HBCU's should only focus on sports or that kids should have to go to an HBCU obviously, but her point isn't unreasonable either. I certainly don't think its controversial. Many HBCU's are good schools, so why shouldn't she (or anyone) want them to do well in sports?

Duke University would be just fine if the sport of basketball never existed. You're conflating athletic success and revenue with institutional success and revenue. They are not the same at all. Athletics departments are not free advertising; they're extremely expensive. They're paid for by student fees, tickets, and donations. At many schools, they also drain on the general fund of the school. This isn't just opinion, there are quite a few articles out there detailing the struggles of athletic departments and the strain they put on schools.

As for Rutgers, that school got into the B1G largely on their huge alumni base, whether they watch RU sports or not. This gives them a huge payday and provides for their athletic department.

 

[Cubs79]

Duke University would be just fine if the sport of basketball never existed. You're conflating athletic success and revenue with institutional success and revenue. They are not the same at all. Athletics departments are not free advertising; they're extremely expensive. They're paid for by student fees, tickets, and donations. At many schools, they also drain on the general fund of the school. This isn't just opinion, there are quite a few articles out there detailing the struggles of athletic departments and the strain they put on schools.

As for Rutgers, that school got into the B1G largely on their huge alumni base, whether they watch RU sports or not. This gives them a huge payday and provides for their athletic department.

Of course Duke would be fine, that has nothing to do with the point. You said alumni drives TV ratings, I said that isn't true and used Duke as an example. People like to watch talented teams, whether they went to school their or not. I am looking forward to LSU-Texas this weekend, yet I didn't go to either school, but I think it is a good game.

 

[sk8knight]

For the most part, the schools getting the big TV money have huge alumni bases and are already the foremost schools in their areas. An HBCU would have a huge uphill climb to get to a high exposure level even if they're getting 4 and 5 star athletes from recruiting (although some of those athletes probably wouldn't be 4 & 5 stars if they committed to an HBCU). Hell, UCF has a huge student population, a big alumni base, and a very successful football program and yet it still requires a good amount of financial support from the school to exist. There's no way the athletic program would "save" UCF if the school itself were failing.

 

[Cubs79]

For the most part, the schools getting the big TV money have huge alumni bases and are already the foremost schools in their areas. An HBCU would have a huge uphill climb to get to a high exposure level even if they're getting 4 and 5 star athletes from recruiting (although some of those athletes probably wouldn't be 4 & 5 stars if they committed to an HBCU). Hell, UCF has a huge student population, a big alumni base, and a very successful football program and yet it still requires a good amount of financial support from the school to exist. There's no way the athletic program would "save" UCF if the school itself were failing.

You are focusing on the word save. Let me replace "save" with "benefit". And basketball is much more feasible than football for sure. Yes, football tends to be better with the bigger schools, but other sports that isn't necessarily the case. Plenty of mid-size schools have strong programs in other sports, including basketball.

But I still don't get the controversy. Would it hurt anyone, anywhere, if a top tier basketball player went to Howard instead of UNC? I don't think so, so why is her trying to prop up some schools so controversial?

The only reason it is controversial is because she is talking about HBCU's, so people are think she is calling for segregation. If she were talking about mid majors, and brought up most of the same reasons, that the schools have benefited their communities for a long time, etc etc, no one would have an issue with it. But, people also conflate "Historically" black colleges, as "only" black colleges, which isn't the case. White people and other races can attend these schools, just as black people can attend non HBCU's. HBCU's are no more segregated than a non HBCU that is 90% white.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Her point wasn't about segregation, it was about saving HBCU's, many of which are very good schools but struggle financially. Top tier athletes going to those schools would provide a financial boost to them.

I'm curious on her chances of bringing it back - black segregation that benefits black that is.
And i'm wondering when did segregation ever benefit black people in the US.
Thats what the white supremacists on this board are assuming right?

 

[Cubs79]

I'm curious on her chances of bringing it back - black segregation that benefits black that is.
And i'm wondering when did segregation ever benefit black people in the US.
Thats what the white supremacists on this board are assuming right?

She isnt talking about segregation.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

She isnt talking about segregation.

Playing off the white supremacist headlines.

Fox news - Jemele Hill's call for black athletes to leave 'white' colleges draws charges of 'pro-segregation' and racism

White supremacy examiner - ‘Progressive’ racism: Jemele Hill wants ‘black athletes to leave white colleges’

white supremacy times - Jemele Hill pens racist call for blacks to leave white colleges

 

[sk8knight]

Playing off the white supremacist headlines.

Fox news - Jemele Hill's call for black athletes to leave 'white' colleges draws charges of 'pro-segregation' and racism

White supremacy examiner - ‘Progressive’ racism: Jemele Hill wants ‘black athletes to leave white colleges’

white supremacy times - Jemele Hill pens racist call for blacks to leave white colleges

Keep saying it. You’re going to make it meaningless.

 

[UCFWayne]

Keep saying it. You’re going to make it meaningless.

there is this great childrens tale about a boy and a wolf. im guessing hes never heard of it.

 

[UCFKnight85]

If you find yourself defending Jemele Hill then you know that you're inept intellectually

 

[Poolside Knight]

Jemelle young African American men love Latinas and snow bunnies, good luck in this venture

 

[ucfversusbcs]

there is this great childrens tale about a boy and a wolf. im guessing hes never heard of it.

Says the one who suggested Jemele is promoting black supremacy.

 

[Cubs79]

Why should this matter to anyone beyond the administrators and alumni of the HBCUs themselves? Because black colleges play an important role in the creation and propagation of a black professional class. Despite constituting only 3 percent of four-year colleges in the country, HBCUs have produced 80 percent of the black judges, 50 percent of the black lawyers, 50 percent of the black doctors, 40 percent of the black engineers, 40 percent of the black members of Congress, and 13 percent of the black CEOs in America today. (They have also produced this election cycle’s only black female candidate for the U.S. presidency: Kamala Harris is a 1986 graduate of Howard University.)

This is probably the biggest point of her article. That HBCU's have done a lot of good for African Americans, and they are important schools. But for some reason, also wanting to lift up these schools athletically, especiall considering black athletes make up the majority of the athletes in the "money" sports, is controversial, for no other reason than the word "black".

 

[UCFKnight85]

Why should this matter to anyone beyond the administrators and alumni of the HBCUs themselves? Because black colleges play an important role in the creation and propagation of a black professional class. Despite constituting only 3 percent of four-year colleges in the country, HBCUs have produced 80 percent of the black judges, 50 percent of the black lawyers, 50 percent of the black doctors, 40 percent of the black engineers, 40 percent of the black members of Congress, and 13 percent of the black CEOs in America today. (They have also produced this election cycle’s only black female candidate for the U.S. presidency: Kamala Harris is a 1986 graduate of Howard University.)

This is probably the biggest point of her article. That HBCU's have done a lot of good for African Americans, and they are important schools. But for some reason, also wanting to lift up these schools athletically, especiall considering black athletes make up the majority of the athletes in the "money" sports, is controversial, for no other reason than the word "black".

You’re full of shit dude. You can note all of the above and still NOT insist that all black athletes must shun non-HBCU schools.

It’s insanely racist to insist that black kids should go there on absolutely no merit or basis beyond other black kids primarily go there. It’s racist to insist that black athletes are better off amongst majority black populace’s at schools.