Looking to buy a house...

[dgyn14]

We have our realtor who is a family friend and have strong faith in her. The area we are looking in is up in NJ and highly priced, but not highly competitive because many people are moving closer to NYC (and we will be moving about 10 miles further west).

Anyway, she showed us a slew of houses (7) within or near our budget (a couple were over, but with drastically lower taxes so the PMI is similar) on top of another 5 that we had looked at via open houses. Some are basically move in ready and just need a fresh coat of paint, a couple were complete gut jobs, and several were in between.

We like the idea of something in between; just needs cosmetic work and has a good layout/bones and in a good location. We found the perfect house...built in 1989 or 1990, good layout, needs updates, but we aren't talking a 1950s-70s fixer. The bigger issue is that one of the people who lives in the house is a smoker; primarily in the basement. The house is listed at what I believe to be around market value, but our realtor believes we could get it well below because of the number of upgrades needed on top of the cigarette odor. My question I suppose is how much should we budget for a professional cleanup for a larger sized house (about 4,000 sqft)? Are we better off coming in at a slightly higher price and build in the price of the smoke remediation into the contract? Is it something that is just too toxic and will really never go away and we should go with another option (we do have other options)?

We are doing a walkthrough with our contractor (we use him for our business contracting and my other family members use him too, so he is highly trustworthy) on Thursday to get an estimate...just looking to get some dungeonites opinions who may have gone through this process. The house has been listed for 4 months.

 

[SublimeKnight]

Count on replacing every inch of carpet and doing kilz on all the walls. Plus of course a deep cleaning. You want to do this before you move your furniture in, because it will seep into your furniture.

EDIT: It should go without saying that any fabric window treatments go straight to the trash too.

 

[USFSucks]

Count on replacing every inch of carpet and doing kilz on all the walls. Plus of course a deep cleaning. You want to do this before you move your furniture in, because it will seep into your furniture.

EDIT: It should go without saying that any fabric window treatments go straight to the trash too.

All of this. Basically, don't bother buying a smokers house

 

[EweSeaEff]

Had this exact situation when we bought our office. @SublimeKnight is dead on with everything. It's actually less daunting than it seems... Especially if you're planning to change paint, flooring, etc. anyway. You'll also want to get all of your ductwork thoroughly cleaned as well.

We changed flooring, did double coat of Kilz and cleaned ductwork and there's been zero trace and no complaints from anyone in the 3+ years since we did it.

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

Seeing smokers outside is like visiting a zoo exhibit. People who smoke inside should be aborted.

 

[CommuterBob]

If the house has been on the market a while, you can probably go low on the initial bid. Because it's a smoker's house, you'll need everything recommended above (new floors (budget $5/sf), window treatments (budget $200-$500/window), paint/wall paper (budget $200-$500 per room), duct cleaning ($500)) on top of whatever renovations you'll need for your plans. Yes, definitely build that into your bid for the house.

Unless you're in a hurry to buy for whatever reason, don't bid more than you want to pay (renovations included), and you can even put forth an initial bid of about 10% below what you'd really want to pay. If they don't counter offer, move on. Real estate can be tricky, but you can often get a good deal if you're willing to be patient.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Given the cancer, and disgusting everyone around you with a horrid smell that lingers on your clothes and in your house, why exactly do people willingly choose to smoke?

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

Lack of emotional stability

 

[barrister1602]

Given the cancer, and disgusting everyone around you with a horrid smell that lingers on your clothes and in your house, why exactly do people willingly choose to smoke?

If she smokes.....she pokes

 

[HuffyCane]

They would have to pay me to live there.

 

[jetsaholic]

If she smokes.....she pokes

Just like your mom...

 

[SublimeKnight]

@EweSeaEff good point on the duct cleaning.

They would have to pay me to live there.

Good point. Why go through all the trouble of getting the smoke smell out, when it will still smell like NJ?

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Given the cancer, and disgusting everyone around you with a horrid smell that lingers on your clothes and in your house, why exactly do people willingly choose to smoke?

Because it's cool.

 

[dgyn14]

@EweSeaEff good point on the duct cleaning.

Good point. Why go through all the trouble of getting the smoke smell out, when it will still smell like NJ?

Lol, thankfully the neighborhood is nice...I'm used to all of the jokes. Newark area does smell like trash, but there are some really nice areas believe it or not.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's advice. Yes, we were planning on replacing all carpets, window treatments, doing duct work, repainting everything, etc. before we even knew there was a smoker inside. We're budgeting a lot into the potential renovation cost; thankfully we are very liquid ATM. I have a max # for renovation estimate, and if our contractor believes it s more than that; we will move on. The entirety of the bottom floor are hardwoods, would they need to be completely replaced?

I just found out this doozy from our Realtor today though: The current owner is 2 years behind on property taxes. There currently aren't any liens (to our knowledge) and we would be purchasing title insurance in case there are any liens from contractors or other people, and the seller has to pay what is due through escrow, but I'd have to make sure we get a good real estate attorney. The positive is they must be very motivated to sell (How the hell have they not lowered the list price in 4 months)!?

 

[UCFKnight85]

Confirmed: smokers are deadbeats.

 

[barrister1602]

Just like your mom...

Excellent work grasshopper

When you can snatch the pebble from my hand....

 

[barrister1602]

Given the cancer, and disgusting everyone around you with a horrid smell that lingers on your clothes and in your house, why exactly do people willingly choose to smoke?

dated a woman who smoked for a short while. told me she was quitting. I gave her 3 weeks. She was still smoking like a chimney. I gone. I've put my face into some disgusting "situations" but hating kissing her ashtray of a mouth.

 

[CommuterBob]

The entirety of the bottom floor are hardwoods, would they need to be completely replaced?

Real hard wood? No. You could sand and refinish and be just fine.
Laminate? Probably not an issue at all, but depending on the type, you might need to replace.

 

[dgyn14]

Real hard wood? No. You could sand and refinish and be just fine.
Laminate? Probably not an issue at all, but depending on the type, you might need to replace.

Real, thanks good to know.

 

[crambone]

Kilz works very well. I helped my brother clean out an ex-"cat room" in his new house. Place smelled like cat pee. 2 coats of that stuff, new carpet and paint and you couldn't even tell there was one kitteh in there, let alone the zoo she had.

 

[Boston.Knight]

As a general rule of thumb, price in all your remediation as if you were hiring an expensive contractor to do everything . And don't assume the hardwood can even be sanded and refinished. Make sure it isn't shot first. The ducts - assume the worst - they need to be 'encapsulated' or even replaced they leaking anyways.

Learn how to look for signs of termites while you are checking the place out.

 

[dgyn14]

As a general rule of thumb, price in all your remediation as if you were hiring an expensive contractor to do everything . And don't assume the hardwood can even be sanded and refinished. Make sure it isn't shot first. The ducts - assume the worst - they need to be 'encapsulated' or even replaced they leaking anyways.

Learn how to look for signs of termites while you are checking the place out.

Well on top of our general contractor we will obviously have a home inspection done regardless of whether we choose this house or not, but yeah good advice to think of that into the build. The house is 20 years old so I'm hoping there shouldn't be many (or any) structural type issues and solely cosmetic and the smoke remediation.

 

[SublimeKnight]

Well on top of our general contractor we will obviously have a home inspection done regardless of whether we choose this house or not, but yeah good advice to think of that into the build. The house is 20 years old so I'm hoping there shouldn't be many (or any) structural type issues and solely cosmetic and the smoke remediation.

I just noticed the age of the house you're looking at (late 80s, early 90s) this is right around the time that house wraps started to become code on new construction. A lot of homes built at this time didn't have the wrap install properly and the wraps didn't allow moisture to escape as well as the new ones today. This resulted in a lot of houses with mold issues. Definitely make sure your inspector looks closely for signs of mold.

 

[UCFKnight85]

You do realize that looking for mold is like priority #1 for most every home inspector?

 

[SublimeKnight]

You do realize that looking for mold is like priority #1 for most every home inspector?

You'd be surprised what the inspection industry has become. GFCI OK? No wet spots on the ceiling drywall? Good to go.

If you inspector isn't going to show up with a inspection camera that he can fish into exterior walls, find another one.

 

[dgyn14]

Well....I just did some research and while the house itself is not in a flood zone, the rest of the cul-de-sac is! Lol. (There is a lake that centers a nature preserve on the west side of the cul-de-sac and the street is very flat-looks like it has poor drainage). There aren't any houses on the west side and now I know why. Looks like we will be looking for a different house after all of this. Oh well, on to the next. Thanks for everyone's advice though. The next 2 we are looking at-1 was built in 2000 and is almost move in ready, and the other is an '85 house completely renovated, move in ready if there aren't any issues with the bones/furnace/HVAC. (Neither are in flood zones).

 

[ReginaeUCF]

Well....I just did some research and while the house itself is not in a flood zone, the rest of the cul-de-sac is! Lol. (There is a lake that centers a nature preserve on the west side of the cul-de-sac and the street is very flat-looks like it has poor drainage). There aren't any houses on the west side and now I know why. Looks like we will be looking for a different house after all of this. Oh well, on to the next. Thanks for everyone's advice though. The next 2 we are looking at-1 was built in 2000 and is almost move in ready, and the other is an '85 house completely renovated, move in ready if there aren't any issues with the bones/furnace/HVAC. (Neither are in flood zones).

You're not ACTUALLY considering not buying flood insurance are you?
If you're not in a flood zone, it's almost free.

 

[dgyn14]

You're not ACTUALLY considering not buying flood insurance are you?
If you're not in a flood zone, it's almost free.

Oh no I would 100% buy flood insurance regardless. I didn't know that it would be almost free. I'm more concerned about the actual chance of a flood.

 

[ReginaeUCF]

Oh no I would 100% buy flood insurance regardless. I didn't know that it would be almost free. I'm more concerned about the actual chance of a flood.

I live on the water; about 3 bird miles form the mouth of the St Johns river. When i bought i wasnt in a "flood zone" until a few years ago. In 2009-2012ish i paid like $330 per year.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I'm not in the worst flood zone but I'm in one; I only pay like $900 a year. Seems like a lot until you rationalize it as costing the same as a nice dinner outing once a month.

 

[dgyn14]

My fiancée has gotten flooded out twice from a creek...even if it's a lower risk zone we are still uber cautious.

 

[CommuterBob]

Well....I just did some research and while the house itself is not in a flood zone, the rest of the cul-de-sac is! Lol. (There is a lake that centers a nature preserve on the west side of the cul-de-sac and the street is very flat-looks like it has poor drainage). There aren't any houses on the west side and now I know why. Looks like we will be looking for a different house after all of this. Oh well, on to the next. Thanks for everyone's advice though. The next 2 we are looking at-1 was built in 2000 and is almost move in ready, and the other is an '85 house completely renovated, move in ready if there aren't any issues with the bones/furnace/HVAC. (Neither are in flood zones).

That's a silly reason to not buy a home. The home wasn't in a flood zone, so what's the fear? Flood insurance rates are based on the flood maps - and even those are based on a 1% chance annually of a flood event. if the property is outside the flood zone, that's all that matters.

 

[dgyn14]

That's a silly reason to not buy a home. The home wasn't in a flood zone, so what's the fear? Flood insurance rates are based on the flood maps - and even those are based on a 1% chance annually of a flood event. if the property is outside the flood zone, that's all that matters.

Well only a tiny portion is included; I'm not sure how that impacts insurance. It's tough because my fiancee's family lost two different houses and everything inside...both of which were in 100 year flood zones; so it's tough to rationalize taking the risk if there are other houses that we like. We will definitely try to find out more history about the street if neighbors had flooding issues during Sandy or heavy storms.

We're taking the walk with the contractor tomorrow so we'll see what he quotes on the work we want done and smoke remediation and then visiting the more move in ready option.

 

[dgyn14]

We toured both properties today; our contractor confirmed the first property should be ok in terms of water and shows no signs of prior water issues and has good bones...but...after touring the more move in ready home we decided that was the better decision. It's a little more expensive, but overall monthly payments are about the same because taxes are so high in the first property . It also is bigger by about 300 sq ft and has a pool (I'm iffy on the pool because we'd only get to use it 4-6 months of the year and the work that goes into maintaining one, but it is a pretty awesome setup).

 

[mach3ucf]

I have to say I have been blessed, as I have not had to live with smokers..

I had to sell a house that was rented by smokers.
We have to stanley steam the whole house..

All carpets cleaned thoroughly, the air vents, we threw out the curtains..

I still sold the place at top dollar, but the seller spent close to $4,000 cleaning the house prior..
South Florida prices tend to be high, so it maybe cheaper in New Jersey?

 

[dgyn14]

Cost of living in NJ close to NYC (where we are) is either equal to or more expensive than the Miami area; with a few exceptions. South Jersey outside of the immediate Philly burbs and shore is about average though.

 

[CommuterBob]

I did my time...errr, lived in Central NJ when I was in middle school. Even back then, I had moved from a 2200 sf house we sold in St. Louis for $90k to a 1400 sf house we bought for $98k in NJ. We sold that house 3 years later (after remodeling the kitchen, dining room, and living room, adding a deck out back and landscaping the front) for $145k and bought a 2400 sf house in Columbus for $130k. Just looked on Zillow and now that same house in NJ has a Zestimate of over $430k. Holy crap!