... that Micahel Sam got the short end of the stick for revealing his sexuality:
http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/30/8265615/shane-ray-michael-sam-draft
http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/30/8265615/shane-ray-michael-sam-draft
More evidence...
- Thread starter jetsaholic
- Start date
Sam had 2 teams look at him, had 8-9 months of the NFL celebrating him (while the majority of the NFL yelled how un-biased they were), and couldn't make a team. He had a 2nd chance at the veteran's combine and did dreadfully, hence proof to the teams that didn't want him that he can't play in the NFL. He's out of the NFL because at this point in time, he isn't good enough. It has 0 to do with him being gay. You have to be an ignorant baboon to think that there's no gays in the NFL. Funnily enough, this same conversation is being had in England's football (soccer), with fools thinking there's no gays in football. Plus, in the end, there is absolutely no proof that this other guy can play in the NFL yet. Sam's said he might go to the CFL, hence maybe both guys will eventually succeed in the NFL or both will bomb.
So can somebody explain how he became a consensus All-American and the SEC Defensive Player of the Year? Was that because of his orientation too?
So did I miss where Jacoby Glenn came out as gay too? Wasn't he second team All American? What happened to him not getting drafted? If you want equal treatment for all players stop complaining when they don't make it. Sounds like you want special treatment.
There is a difference between college and NFL. Again, if you really feel he's the only gay who's been connected to the NFL then you're fooling yourself. Your reasoning doesn't even make much sense. Sam came out before he got the awards, so I guess you're saying as a whole the entire college game has no problem with him being gay, yet the entire NFL is completely anti-gay, eventho the NFL made a huge fanfare over him being drafted and celebrated him being in the NFL, and then, the Commish went out of his way trying to get the Cowboys to sign Sam.
Prior to Sam who was the last SEC Defensive player of the year not to play at least one season in the NFL?
These are all the past DPOTY winners in the SEC since 2003:
2014 Shane Ray* Missouri 47 Solo, 18 Ast, 14.5 Sk, 0 Int
2013 Michael Sam Missouri 31 Solo, 17 Ast, 11.5 Sk, 0 Int
2012 Jarvis Jones* Georgia 52 Solo, 33 Ast, 14.5 Sk, 1 Int
2011 Morris Claiborne* Louisiana State 32 Solo, 19 Ast, 0.0 Sk, 6 Int
2010 Patrick Peterson* Louisiana State 29 Solo, 13 Ast, 0.0 Sk, 4 Int
2009 Rolando McClain* Alabama 53 Solo, 52 Ast, 4.0 Sk, 2 Int
2008 Eric Berry Tennessee 7 Att, 37 Yds, 5.3 Avg, 0 TD
2007 Glenn Dorsey* Louisiana State 34 Solo, 35 Ast, 7.0 Sk, 0 Int
2006 Patrick Willis Mississippi 87 Solo, 50 Ast, 3.0 Sk, 0 Int
2005 Demeco Ryans* Alabama 41 Solo, 35 Ast, 5.0 Sk, 1 Int
2004 David Pollack* Georgia
2003 Chad Lavalais* Louisiana State 1 Int, -5 Yds, 0 TD
You don't get on that list if you're a chump. At the D Line position, his stats compare to Shane Ray and Glenn Dorsey. The only guy on that list that didn't play or isn't playing in the NFL is David Pollack because he got Randy Orton-ed on his first game and broke his $hit.
Just read the article. His starts are 100% comparable to Shane ray and he comes from the same exact system. Some of his measurables are better and he doesn't have any off the field issues. I could argue Shane Ray got preferential tratment over Michael Sam because, regardless of my opinion on marihuana,USING IT IS AGAINST LEAGUE REGULATIONS. I can't find anywhere where it says liking dudes is against regulations too.
My opinion is that if Micahel Sam would've stayed private (as private as you can in this day and age) about his sexuality, he would've been picked WAAAAAAAAAAAAY before the mercy-fukc 7th round and would've gotten a chance to play. It's logic: you pick a guy in the early rounds, you wanna know what your money just got you; you pick a guy in the 7th round, you don't have a problem cutting him. And it is also my opinion that his sexuality made him untouchable for all the other teams. Of course they're going to say it doesn't matter, it's what they're supposed to say.
2014 Shane Ray* Missouri 47 Solo, 18 Ast, 14.5 Sk, 0 Int
2013 Michael Sam Missouri 31 Solo, 17 Ast, 11.5 Sk, 0 Int
2012 Jarvis Jones* Georgia 52 Solo, 33 Ast, 14.5 Sk, 1 Int
2011 Morris Claiborne* Louisiana State 32 Solo, 19 Ast, 0.0 Sk, 6 Int
2010 Patrick Peterson* Louisiana State 29 Solo, 13 Ast, 0.0 Sk, 4 Int
2009 Rolando McClain* Alabama 53 Solo, 52 Ast, 4.0 Sk, 2 Int
2008 Eric Berry Tennessee 7 Att, 37 Yds, 5.3 Avg, 0 TD
2007 Glenn Dorsey* Louisiana State 34 Solo, 35 Ast, 7.0 Sk, 0 Int
2006 Patrick Willis Mississippi 87 Solo, 50 Ast, 3.0 Sk, 0 Int
2005 Demeco Ryans* Alabama 41 Solo, 35 Ast, 5.0 Sk, 1 Int
2004 David Pollack* Georgia
2003 Chad Lavalais* Louisiana State 1 Int, -5 Yds, 0 TD
You don't get on that list if you're a chump. At the D Line position, his stats compare to Shane Ray and Glenn Dorsey. The only guy on that list that didn't play or isn't playing in the NFL is David Pollack because he got Randy Orton-ed on his first game and broke his $hit.
Just read the article. His starts are 100% comparable to Shane ray and he comes from the same exact system. Some of his measurables are better and he doesn't have any off the field issues. I could argue Shane Ray got preferential tratment over Michael Sam because, regardless of my opinion on marihuana,USING IT IS AGAINST LEAGUE REGULATIONS. I can't find anywhere where it says liking dudes is against regulations too.
My opinion is that if Micahel Sam would've stayed private (as private as you can in this day and age) about his sexuality, he would've been picked WAAAAAAAAAAAAY before the mercy-fukc 7th round and would've gotten a chance to play. It's logic: you pick a guy in the early rounds, you wanna know what your money just got you; you pick a guy in the 7th round, you don't have a problem cutting him. And it is also my opinion that his sexuality made him untouchable for all the other teams. Of course they're going to say it doesn't matter, it's what they're supposed to say.
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So the NFL....a league where winning is everything, cut a guy, because he was gay? Pretty sure if the league could deal with the likes of Ray Lewis, Mike Vick, etc would be more than happy to have a talented gay player. As someone else said, he's had two opportunities, been cut both times and bombed in the veteran combine. Sam not being in the NFL has to do with him not having NFL talent....nothing else. College stats mean nothing when it comes to the NFL, way too many examples to prove that!
So essentially you're pretty much guaranteed at least one season in the NFL as SEC Defensive Player of the Year, unless you're gay.
You guys don't see what I'm saying and that is a good thing. It means you are open minded and you think that what I'm saying is stupid and isn't supposed to happen. And you are absolutely 100% right...
But it did happen...
I'm not making $hit up, I'm going with stats and facts and numbers. And, yes, the DPOTY in the SEC is pretty much a guaranteed first round pick every single year. Look at the fukcing stats!!!!! Not all Heisman winners turn into good pros, but when was the last time one of them wasn't drafted in the first round in the last decade? Troy Smith in 2007, that's it.
There is a certain status attached to award winners. Once again, I'm not making this up, look up the stats. The fact that you think I'm crazy means that you agree with me because it is crazy that, on this day and age, a football player lost all his status because of who he fukcs.
But it did happen...
I'm not making $hit up, I'm going with stats and facts and numbers. And, yes, the DPOTY in the SEC is pretty much a guaranteed first round pick every single year. Look at the fukcing stats!!!!! Not all Heisman winners turn into good pros, but when was the last time one of them wasn't drafted in the first round in the last decade? Troy Smith in 2007, that's it.
There is a certain status attached to award winners. Once again, I'm not making this up, look up the stats. The fact that you think I'm crazy means that you agree with me because it is crazy that, on this day and age, a football player lost all his status because of who he fukcs.
Before he came out...he was a late round projection...no one, at any time, thought he was a first round talent. He had a great year....on a team with a really good defense, in a weaker SEC East. If he could help a team win, he'd be on a roster right now...
If talent was the only factor Josh Gordon and Richie Icognito would have played last year. There are rules both written and unwritten that will prevent you from playing in the NFL.
OP sounds like a young person who hasn't watched much college football.
There are reasons why the "most outstanding college football player in the NATION" is many times not projected to do well at all in the NFL...hence Heisman winners like Charlie Ward and Jason White (not even drafted), Torreta (7th round) to others drafted in the 4th round like Wuerffel and Weinke et al.
I think its great that many players in college receive awards based on their COLLEGE PLAY...and not based on their NFL projections, as sometimes, their skill sets do not necessarily transfer to the NFL game.
Others like Ty Detmer, was selected in the 9th round...something that doesn't even exist today (Draft is just 7 rounds).
Winning awards is great....heck, Bruce Miller was a TWO TIME DEFENSIVE Player of the Year...yet not one team wanted him to play defense...as he fell to a last round pick by San Fran on a whim to try and play FB.
Yes, GM's in the NFL with Millions of $$$ spent on scouting players do make mistakes (i.e. on bad draft picks to UDFA who end up as very good players) but even so-so players get invited to camps...and while odds are long they make a 53 man roster..if you have the goods to help an NFL team...you will be discovered.
First, K_L, you've met me. Several times.
Second, you keep bringing up outliers. Charlie Ward decided not to enter the draft. Jason White, Torreta, my example of Troy Smith, all outliers. You do know what an outlier is, right?
Third, teams don't want Micahel Sam. They don't want to deal with Micahel Sam's off-the-field "issue".
I love Bruce Miller as much as any of you do but being the DPOTY in C-USA and in the SEC are two completely different things. You don't have to like it but you need to accept it as fact. It is a completely different level of competition and cannot be compared like apples to apples. I hate it, but it's fact. Once again, don't believe me, believe the stats.
Missouri's coach knew Michael Sam was gay because he told him once get got his LOI. The coach told him to keep it under wraps. Once again, the information is out there. If the coach knew, do you really think nobody else knew? He dated a kid that went to school at Missouri. Do you really think this was a secret? Michael Sam's sexuality has been up for debate (and I don't know why since it isn't anybody's fukcing business who he decides to sleep with) way before he decided to become public about it. Not for a second do I believe that the kid was #1 overall pick material. Perhaps he wasn't first or second round material. But 7th round? I call bullshit, especially when you have guys from Div II (look at that, an old school reference. Maybe I'm not as young as you fukcing think) schools with less accolades getting drafted before him when the level of competition isn't even comparable.
Logic is just that, logic. Michael Sam's sexuality planted a seed in the back of the minds of the people that knew which made sure that, no matter what he does, his accomplishments will never measure up against the norm because he's gay and gay people are not supposed to be good at football. By the time he became public with his sexuality, it was just a formality. Had he kept his sexuality under wraps, he would've been drafted higher. 3rd, maybe 4th round. He would've gotten priority over a 7th round pick. That would've allowed him some playing time and then we would've been able to see his true potential. And, please, don't bring up Brady or any other 6th-7th round outlier because that's all they are. The draft has been in place for decades because the system works. Statistics dictate that a first round pick is supposed to be a better player than a 7th round pick and that is usually the case.
Stop it with the exeptions and the outliers because, by doing so, you're just trying to justify an act of bigotry and that makes you as guilty as the people involved.
Second, you keep bringing up outliers. Charlie Ward decided not to enter the draft. Jason White, Torreta, my example of Troy Smith, all outliers. You do know what an outlier is, right?
Third, teams don't want Micahel Sam. They don't want to deal with Micahel Sam's off-the-field "issue".
I love Bruce Miller as much as any of you do but being the DPOTY in C-USA and in the SEC are two completely different things. You don't have to like it but you need to accept it as fact. It is a completely different level of competition and cannot be compared like apples to apples. I hate it, but it's fact. Once again, don't believe me, believe the stats.
Missouri's coach knew Michael Sam was gay because he told him once get got his LOI. The coach told him to keep it under wraps. Once again, the information is out there. If the coach knew, do you really think nobody else knew? He dated a kid that went to school at Missouri. Do you really think this was a secret? Michael Sam's sexuality has been up for debate (and I don't know why since it isn't anybody's fukcing business who he decides to sleep with) way before he decided to become public about it. Not for a second do I believe that the kid was #1 overall pick material. Perhaps he wasn't first or second round material. But 7th round? I call bullshit, especially when you have guys from Div II (look at that, an old school reference. Maybe I'm not as young as you fukcing think) schools with less accolades getting drafted before him when the level of competition isn't even comparable.
Logic is just that, logic. Michael Sam's sexuality planted a seed in the back of the minds of the people that knew which made sure that, no matter what he does, his accomplishments will never measure up against the norm because he's gay and gay people are not supposed to be good at football. By the time he became public with his sexuality, it was just a formality. Had he kept his sexuality under wraps, he would've been drafted higher. 3rd, maybe 4th round. He would've gotten priority over a 7th round pick. That would've allowed him some playing time and then we would've been able to see his true potential. And, please, don't bring up Brady or any other 6th-7th round outlier because that's all they are. The draft has been in place for decades because the system works. Statistics dictate that a first round pick is supposed to be a better player than a 7th round pick and that is usually the case.
Stop it with the exeptions and the outliers because, by doing so, you're just trying to justify an act of bigotry and that makes you as guilty as the people involved.
I care. I care because I believe that this goes beyond a simple "life isn't fair" thing. I care because I don't appreciate discrimination. I can keep listing reasons why I care but I can see you don't care.
Then go post your rants on an LGBT message board. Someone there might give a damn.
Really? Everyone in here has given their reasons why Sam didn't male it and you can't accept that. All he said was to make this argument with people who care more about orientation then talent.
And all I am saying is that if he lacked the talent, we would've never heard of him because he wouldn't have been a consensus All American and the SEC Defensive Player Of The Year.
But that has nothing to do with talent, I guess.
Wow, you know absolutely NOTHING about me: my gender, my race, my color, or my sexual orientation, yet you call me the bigot. Just because I state an opinion that nobody cares to discuss your topic on a message board about UCF sports, you automatically revert to the "bigot" card. Why is that? Is it because you are too small minded to accept the fact that not everyone is interested in reading your political diatribes about homophobia on a UCF sports forum. Is it because you believe that anyone who doesn't share your believes is somehow opposed to equal rights? Go on, you can omit it. You're all for free speech and love thy neighbor as long as it doesn't offend you. You're that guy, aren't you?
Would you be as spirited to deliver that same observation about NFL teams' reluctance to sign Tim Tebow because of his Christianity? Using your thought process, isn't he also being "discriminated" against? But I'm guessing you don't care about that. Well guess what? Neither do I. What you fail to grasp is that NFL teams choose not to deal with the media circus that both players bring to the table. There are enough good players that are as talented as Sam and Tebow that don't bring the same distractions to a team as those two do. Why would a team deal with that if they don't have to?
Had Sam not made a big to do about his homosexuality prior to the draft he probably would have been drafted higher and still in the league. It's not the NFL's responsibility, or any business for that matter, to be a social test tube. As someone else stated above, you are ignorant if you think that there are no other homosexuals in sports. And you can bet that their teammates and managers know they are gay. The difference is they don't make a political statement out of it.
If people, regardless of their political and cultural leanings, would just live their lives and stop trying to impose their beliefs on everyone else we would all be better off. What you do on your own is fine by me as long as you're not constantly in my face with it. If you don't want to be called a thug then stop dressing and acting like one. If you want to be hired by a Fortune 500 company then don't get tats all over your body. If you don't want to alienate women voters then stop marching in front of women's' clinics carrying signs calling them sinners. It's pretty simple.
There will always be bigots because there will always be ignorant people. As long as there is no REAL discrimination stop labeling everyone that way just because they don't walk in line with your believe system. All you're doing is driving the wedge even deeper. And yes, my earlier statement still applies...life isn't fair. If it were we would all be rich or poor, not both. So get over it.
To the rest of the UCF Rivals members, I apologize for turning this thread into something other than sports.
Bigotry isn't attached to gender, race, color or sexuality nor do I give a flying fukc about yours. Bigotry is attached to intolerance. Your previous statement was an intolerant statement. If YOU don't care about the subject I'm writing about then stop reading and posting about it. But don't tell me to go post somewhere else because you're not interested.
Yes, Tebow is being discriminated because of his over-excesive christianity. Everybody knows that. Is that the only determining factor to his NFL career path so far? No.
You actually agree with me about the fact that had Michael Sam shut the fukc up and kept his sexuality under wraps, teams would've looked at him differently.
You just proved my point. This isn't about talent, it's about a league not wanting to deal with a guy that publicly admits that he sleeps with dudes because of today's media crazy world we live in. And it also seems that you, while having an opinion, just take it in the chin and move on. Seems like you are ok with the world being fukced up as long as it doesn't intervene with your daily routine. I feel sorry for you.
And don't fukcing apologize for "turning this thread into something other than sports". This is about something other than sports. I guess you just don't get it. Why do I even bother with you fukcs?
Yes, Tebow is being discriminated because of his over-excesive christianity. Everybody knows that. Is that the only determining factor to his NFL career path so far? No.
You actually agree with me about the fact that had Michael Sam shut the fukc up and kept his sexuality under wraps, teams would've looked at him differently.
You just proved my point. This isn't about talent, it's about a league not wanting to deal with a guy that publicly admits that he sleeps with dudes because of today's media crazy world we live in. And it also seems that you, while having an opinion, just take it in the chin and move on. Seems like you are ok with the world being fukced up as long as it doesn't intervene with your daily routine. I feel sorry for you.
And don't fukcing apologize for "turning this thread into something other than sports". This is about something other than sports. I guess you just don't get it. Why do I even bother with you fukcs?
I never once said that I didn't agree with your point. I just said that nobody gave a crap about your topic in this forum. That's when you turned it into a personal attack on me. You're the intolerant one calling me a bigot when you know nothing about me. I never said I didn't like homosexuals, yet you assumed I don't. You still don't even know if I am gay or not. Maybe I am, and I'm just tired of people like you making it harder on the rest of us by getting on your soap box whenever you can.
Stop hating bro. Accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you. I came to terms a long time ago that not everyone agrees with me. It's okay, debate is good. Just stop labeling people bigots for no other reason than they don't agree with you.
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No, you think nobody gives a crap about the subject. If nobody cared, nobody would've posted. If you don't care, don't post. Move along. I don't want everybody to agree with me. I want to have a conversation about a serious subject, like I was having.
You could be gay, straight, black, white, short, tall, fat, skinny, muslim, christian, atheist, I don't give a fukc. I don't treat people or talk to people based on what they are, I do it based on how they treat me and they talk to me. The only person that said:
Is you.
Your response says that, in my opinion, you care enough about the subject, but with an opposing view, to tell me to shut the fukc up about it. I DON'T HAVE TO SHUT THE FUKC UP ABOUT IT. If people don't care, they'll stop posting and the thread will go away but as long as people keep posting, I will have a civilized debate like I was having with everybody else before you decided to bring your arrogant, bigoted ass into the conversation.
In other words, fukc off, get off this thread. You have admittedly said you don't care about the subject so why the fukc are you even trying?
You could be gay, straight, black, white, short, tall, fat, skinny, muslim, christian, atheist, I don't give a fukc. I don't treat people or talk to people based on what they are, I do it based on how they treat me and they talk to me. The only person that said:
Is you.
Your response says that, in my opinion, you care enough about the subject, but with an opposing view, to tell me to shut the fukc up about it. I DON'T HAVE TO SHUT THE FUKC UP ABOUT IT. If people don't care, they'll stop posting and the thread will go away but as long as people keep posting, I will have a civilized debate like I was having with everybody else before you decided to bring your arrogant, bigoted ass into the conversation.
In other words, fukc off, get off this thread. You have admittedly said you don't care about the subject so why the fukc are you even trying?
Talk about being bigoted. Jetsaholic you won't listen to anyone who says he wasn't good enough, wasn't talented enough, didn't have the skills. You want special treatment for Sam and for that reason you're setting the cause backs years. I hope you're happy.
Michael Sam isn't bitter. He knows he hasn't been good enough to make a team. So why are you?
NFL has had accused rapists, murderers, and drug users. So, why wouldn't they let a gay man on their team if he was good enough and could help them win? It's actually good publicity for a team. Shows they are fair and sensitive to the modern era.
Bottom line is that he's not fast enough to be an effective pass rusher in the NFL. He's not talented enough.
He's not good enough. Plain and simple
Who cares if he was the SEC defensive player of the year. Archie Griffin won 2 Heismans and he sucked. Many other examples of this
Tebow comes with more baggage and he keeps getting chances, so why wouldn't Sam if he's good enough?
NFL has had accused rapists, murderers, and drug users. So, why wouldn't they let a gay man on their team if he was good enough and could help them win? It's actually good publicity for a team. Shows they are fair and sensitive to the modern era.
Bottom line is that he's not fast enough to be an effective pass rusher in the NFL. He's not talented enough.
He's not good enough. Plain and simple
Who cares if he was the SEC defensive player of the year. Archie Griffin won 2 Heismans and he sucked. Many other examples of this
Tebow comes with more baggage and he keeps getting chances, so why wouldn't Sam if he's good enough?
Because, you little man, made it into more than a conversation about whether or not SAM's homosexuality is the reason NFL teams shy away from him when you called me a bigot. I'm trying to teach you a valuable life lesson so that when you grow up you will actually be a contributing member of society instead of some occupy wall street protester that whines that everyone else is responsible for your shortcomings.
I'll go slow so you can follow...
Your contention is Sam is not in the NFL because he is gay, or in your own words, because of who he sleeps with (I'll spare the board what you actually called it). You even went so far as to list his accomplishments as a collegiate and compared him to other DPOTY in the SEC. The sole purpose for your thread was to try to convince everyone on this forum that these "facts" prove what happened to him is an act of bigotry by every team and its management.
When others posted opposing opinions of why Sam is not in the NFL or examples of players having similar college careers that didn't make it in the NFL, you dismissed their posts and told them to stop justifying bigotry or they would be just as guilty as the NFL teams.
That's when I first chimed in to basically say no one cares about your agenda so get over it and move on with your life. I never said to shut up, or that I don't appreciate the struggles that gays and lesbians go through. You obviously had an opinion that no one else replying shared with you. If you were looking for validation then this forum wasn't cooperating.
When someone else has a legitimate opinion that gets in the way of your political beliefs It's easier to call them a bigot than to have a real debate. Your hope, and those like you, is that anyone opposed to your views will shy away because of their fear of being labeled a bigot or racist so you can have the entire platform to yourself.
So tell me...who is the intolerant one here? The one that simply said to get over it, or the one who keeps calling me a bigot and to shut the F up?
One last time. There are undoubtedly players in the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, etc., etc., that are gay. They are in those leagues because they are good enough to be, but more importantly, they don't bring unnecessary distraction to their teams. Players are overlooked or cut everyday for being distractions that teams don't want to deal with. Hence the reference to Richie Incognito from someone else above, and my reference to Tebow.
In my opinion, being gay is not why NFL team's shied away from Sam. Making a big deal about being gay and being on the front page of every sports page in the country is why teams shied away from Sam. If he were the consensus first pick in the draft teams might have dealt with the media frenzy. But he wasn't, so they did what every company in the world does. They weigh the risk vs. reward of hiring someone. In Sam's case, the risk that he would be a distraction to the team exceeded the perceived reward of having him on the team. That is not an act of bigotry against gays. If anything, it's an act of bigotry against idiots that bring unnecessary attention to themselves. See the difference?
So my opinion differs from yours. So what? That doesn't make me a bigot. Grow up and stop crying wolf when you're feelings get hurt.
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Jets he was never projected to be a 3rd or 4th rounder. He had one...(((((ONE)))) great year playing on a great defense. Sam is not in NFL for one and only one reason. He isn't good enough.
Oh, I listen, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. This is meant to be a conversation, a point-counterpoint. I expressed my opinions and theories, the people against them presented their opinions and theories. That's what a fukcing conversation is. It isn't until douchenozzle comes and tells me to take my topic somewhere else because nobody cares that I feel the need to change my tone. If nobody cares, nobody would be posting about it. You can care with an oposing view, I'll accept that. You can care with a similar view, I'll accept that too. I am not the person that turned this thread into a shit fest, waterhead here did. Mikesi, K_L, hater, gonzo, they all brought points to the table against my views and I accepted them and presented my counter opinion.
I see now you obviously want no part of this conversation and you want it off this forum. This isn't North Korea. Stop talking to me and I'll stop talking to you. Pretty simple, you can tell me I'm wrong, stupid, crazy, whatever, but don't tell me to stop talking about something. I'm not forcing you to be here.
I see now you obviously want no part of this conversation and you want it off this forum. This isn't North Korea. Stop talking to me and I'll stop talking to you. Pretty simple, you can tell me I'm wrong, stupid, crazy, whatever, but don't tell me to stop talking about something. I'm not forcing you to be here.
You are absolutely right, he isn't bitter. At least, he doesn't seem to be. Says a lot about him.
I see your example of Archie Griffin and, like I said in an earlier post, he's an outlier. Statistics show that these guys that win these awards are better than the norm.
Yes, with all the crazynes surrounding the league, an openly gay player playing every Sunday would be a great story, but it will also create lots of backlash. Do you remember the critizism ESPN received for showing Sam and his boyfriend kissing after he got drafted?
I don't know why Tebow keeps getting chances and Sam doesn't. If they're both deemed terrible, then it must be that the NFL would rather deal with christianity than homosexuality... and that's wrong in my book.
Tebow is getting more chances because his issues aren't about physical talent. It's more about technique. Tebow has more upside and has won playoff games in this league.
Statistics show that college players who win these awards are generally good players. However, there are those who aren't and Sam is one of them. He's one of the "outliers"
There's no evidence to support that signing an openly gay player would create bad publicity and backlash IMO. Not in today's liberal society.
The NFL happily employs women beaters, murderers, alcoholics, drug addicts, child beaters, rapists, etc. They're not going to blackball a guy because he likes dicks in his ass.
Perhaps. Maybe Sam IS an outlier indeed. It just doesn't feel right, the way the whole thing developed.
And I want to agree with you about there being less backlash about an openly gay player, but, in a way, this is uncharted waters. Micahel Sam was the first player to admit his homosexuality before joining the league. I think all players that have "come out", men's sports, have done so once their careers are over.
Would you agree that physical talent and technique go hand in hand? I think you can teach technique, regardless of size limitations. Dwight Freeney is only 6'1", 260. His technique isn't limited by his size. The league has changed in the last few years. Maybe Freeney would've never been drafted because of his size. The ghost of Vernon Gholston makes me a bit cynical, I guess.
BTW, thanks for being able to have a conversation about a subject without telling me to take a hike because you don't agree with me. We need more posters like you.
Sure they would. That makes him an anomaly. Hence the reason the others don't come out.
I didn't tell you to take a hike because I didn't agree with you, I was telling you to take a hike, as you see it, because you were calling out everyone that didn't agree with your position as justifying bigotry and therefore making them just as guilty. Go back and read your own posts up to my first post.
Jets, I like your passion. And if used in a way that stimulates conversation instead of labeling everyone as bigots that don't agree with your believes you might actually make a difference. I can tell from your last few posts that your tone has changed and has actually garnered real conversation that may lead more people to the middle instead of opposite ends. You my friend, are headed in the right direction.
Peace brother, and Go Knights!
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