It's football season. How many of you all use the porto potties?
OneCore to rule them all: how Windows Everywhere finally happened
- Thread starter UCF w00t
- Start date
Just giving a threat to bump ... because you guys eat up the marketing, and forget 3 years later that it never happened. I'm a patient man. Besides, when I'm right (like on why you should buy tickets from UCFAA to help the program, among other things), you guys just get pissed and insult me, instead of admitting otherwise.
The SIA and rest of the industry knows what is going on. All new Windows on ARM development was destroyed almost 2 years ago, and it's in pure sustainment mode at this point. But you guys have your fingers in your years, making sounds, acting like Windows ports. It doesn't. But what do I know, right?
True. Some people asked, so I came back.
But I'm not wrong on this. I'm avoiding everything else in the Cooler, but this one ... I'm going to be a thorn in your side. I'm an expert in this portion of the industry, and work with the people at Microsoft, not just someone who listens to marketing BS.
I know most of you will never admit you're wrong, and that's fine. The threads themselves do that for me.
I told you all this was coming five years ago and you laughed at me. #Redemption.
Don't expect me to acknowledge or apologize.
anon_x731qvsnsyb8i
Diamond Knight
Huh? You're kidding, right? There are several out right now.
They killed the legacy RT with x86, ARM and others, and now they have just Windows 10. But what you're failing to realize -- again, marketing -- is that they've basically "re-invented" the "mobile" for PC-architectures only, plus they are trying to get some over to ARMv8, usually with emulation! That's the joke this is! It's Windows ... for PC architectures, just mobile, portable, set-top, etc... ones. Please explain how this isn't marketing? They are basically telling everyone to get to x86 if possible!
But ... here's the problem (e.g., Asus Chairman)! Developers do not trust Microsoft! They do not like Windows on even x86 phones!!! They have been f'd over on CE, Embedded NT, RT and now back to a x86-centric NT strategy!
The XBox One is a PC!
Literally ... you eat up the marketing, and fail to understand what they industry is saying! They are tired of Microsoft doing this!
Define "great"? Seriously dude. Do you understand how much existing code will not run on it? Are you literally making my point for me by using the Pi as an example? Seriously?
Microsoft's entire Windows -- and I stress Windows -- future is based on 1 preferred platform ... x86-64, porting as much as they can from their 32-bit only codebase, dropping what they can, emulating 32-bit structures as necessary -- and, a "second class citizen" in ARMv8 (64-bit) with uEFI, using x86 byte code emulation as needed. They are completely shifting to x86 by default, and have told all their partners to do such.
But because you only listen to marketing, they literally have you fooled. Everything I predicted about RT and ARM came true! But in true Microsoft fashion, everytime they abandon a strategy, leaving developers stranded, they push another strategy.
This is an x86 strategy. And you ate it up!
Dude, where do you get Linux "fanboi"? That's like saying a Microsoft employee is a Windows "fanboi"! WTF?!
I spend nearly a decade working for Red Hat, as a direct employee for 7 of them, several years (and still on and off) as a contractor (that presents myself as Red Hat). I literally left them because I got tired of 100+ hour/weeks, first when my father was ill and I couldn't get away (2012), and then again when I was totally over-utilized (2014), and will only work hourly for them now. You do know Microsoft has recruited me several times, correct? In the mid '00s, late '00s and again just 2 years ago (with the big Azure ramp-up, and being a leading SDN expert in Red Hat). I know some of the guys with the Azure team (I was almost one of them!), along with past, core NT/Win32 architects now at Google.
Do you know how much open source I've done on Windows? Mono projects? Everyone talks about Mono being a portability solution to non-Windows, but that's a joke. If you don't write for Mono, and stick with Visual Studio, you get 32-bit Windows-only code. You are absolutely listening to marketing, not reality. I've ported to/from both.
Here's an ultra simple test, and no Googling ...
Q: What are the primary differences between Cygwin and MinGW? Why would a product developer choose one or the other?
You realized I was one of Red Hat's leading Senior Consultants at major accounts, even done some custom embedded and a crapload of Windows integration.
I have cost Microsoft over 9 figures in revenue -- mid 8 figures at just one account in 3 months. Not being a Linux "fanboi," but literally eliminating the waste that the generic PC platform with Windows and "fat" solutions is in so many roles it should not be. They literally throw money at the problem when their customers refuse to do so any more. At that same customer, I was enemy #1 for 400 Windows developers for a reason.
At one point Microsoft and Red Hat were even talking about the political aspects of me becoming a MCM on Directory Server, because they are usually all Microsoft employees or Gold Partners. I literally got pulled into a lot of AD at many accounts because I do a lot of Kerberos and LDAP internals, migrations, etc... (to the point Red Hat often had to pull the SoW out). I mean, really ... I was one of the half-dozen guys in the company focused on large-scale Linux-Windows interoperability as a SME for major accounts.
Microsoft, of course, shut down the Masters program abruptly (less than 30 days notice), pissing a lot of us MCPs off, especially those who had sunk tens of thousands of dollars into it.
No crap. Because I do a lot of open source on Windows ... and more than just rebuilding Apache on Windows (although that alone is a sustainable nightmare with the countless ISVs who built abandoned Apache Win32 solutions). Geez, you're talking down to me like I haven't done this, when I've done a crapload more open source on Windows than you because open source was (and still is) my life!
Literally dude. It's called subject matter expertise, and you keep crossing into mine! Open source, Mono, portability. Microsoft ... is a joke when it comes to this. Their own Azure team understands this. You are totally a marketing spewing fool. And I'm the fanboi? Because I understand the non-sense?
I literally have been in the code, over and over! You're talking marketing and conference non-sense. How many times has Microsoft reneg'd on this? They shift the strategy! Even just from that last developer conference you even quoted! This is an x86 strategy! ARM will never materialize as a first-class citizen in comparison, and is only there are a carrot that will never happen en masse. Or at least it will take a lot of emulation and a lot of new code.
The Azure team is the only one working on actual portability, not the Windows team! And they are focused on cross-GNU/Linux and Windows codebases, unlike the Windows team who is still focused on x86 only or x86 first (when things actually port). That's the team that may have some things happen, but it's going to be post Windows 10.
Honestly, enjoy the marketing.
It's the same thing in securities and trading. People assume Windows dominates the backend, because they see .NET on Windows at Bloomberg and Reuters. The backend is where it is at, and where the money is. But perception = reality, marketing is king. Doesn't matter that Microsoft and Accenture got their @$$es handed to them for the debacle of the LSE, Accenture being heavily subsidized by Microsoft, their specified partner, not LSE's choice.
People who say such have never written portable code. All they know is Visual Studio and 100% assume it ports.
I am holding a 950XL in my hand right now. When I put it into a port, it has near-full windows 10 desktop...32-bit applications support is due November. I have the actual notice of this update on my phone right now and I am part of the early-adopter program.
I think I said something about this a few years ago? Yes? Maybe?
So, you can run any Windows software on it?
Applications executing on the actual phone itself (not just displaying)?
Disclaimer: I've been talking to the Continuum team lately.
SPOILER!!
SPOILER!!
SPOILER!!
SPOILER!!
Fukc you gon' do 'bout it, biaicccchhh???
anon_x731qvsnsyb8i
Diamond Knight
So, you can run any Windows software on it?
Applications executing on the actual phone itself (not just displaying)?
Disclaimer: I've been talking to the Continuum team lately.
So you know about the 32-bit emulation they are working on to work in tandem with ARM to create a seamless interface. I can also project my phone to any Windows 10 machine on my network. This was announced several months ago.
I have been able to get some simple 32-bit apps running, yes. It can actually handle 64-bit. Full GUI needs the 32-bit emulation though.
Yes, the one they basically won't talk about ... for a reason. Microsoft has had access to Digital's binary translation for 2 full decades, and they still cannot get it to work well. The fact that they have to go to this in the first place, basically exposes how unportable all that legacy of Win32/x86 code is -- which is what enterprises expect, and why they have less than 1% of the market.
I.e., if it worked natively, people wouldn't use other platforms, and most Enterprises woulud all be on Windows phones. But since they cannot get those apps on Mobile, they just go to other platforms. That's the only reason people stay with Windows, the legacy ties into the desktop.
Yes, Windows catching up with the POSIX world that has done this since the '80s, iOS and Android since inception, etc... Yes, yes, that's not hard to do. Seemless, remote display is commodity on other platforms, and Windows is finally enabling it, generically, decades after others. The GDI emulation is a real PITA for them.
But has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I'm talking about portable code and making things native executing.
Yes, native Win32/ARMv7, with Win64/ARMv8 finally hitting. Instead of doing all that work in the '90s on Alpha, and making Win code 64-bit clean, they are now finally getting around to it. It is nice to finally see full, native Win64/ARMv8 and Win64/x86-64, because it's forcing Microsoft itself to write portable code, going forward -- again, most of us argued why they should do back in the '90s.
But they still require the emulation for Win32/x86-only code that won't port. Which is why their teams don't like to talk about it. The developer teams are literally 'under-the-gun' to make things work, after all those promises over all those conferences.
Before it was RT. Now it's Continuum. Next it will be ... possibly just giving into Android instead. We'll see what happens.
But Microsoft management is waking up to the reality that they have less than 1% of the phone market, and are spending a lot of money (although far less than just 2-3 years ago) to get this to work. It's getting extremely difficult to argue for this expenditure, instead of just making everything x86 for Windows, and looking at another platform when it's ARM.
Especially since there is no reason why you couldn't have a real, x86 Windows desktop display on Android, as well as Android display on a x86 Windows desktop. Again, we'll see what happens.
anon_x731qvsnsyb8i
Diamond Knight
Yes, the one they basically won't talk about ... for a reason. Microsoft has had access to Digital's binary translation for 2 full decades, and they still cannot get it to work well. The fact that they have to go to this in the first place, basically exposes how unportable all that legacy of Win32/x86 code is -- which is what enterprises expect, and why they have less than 1% of the market.
I.e., if it worked natively, people wouldn't use other platforms, and most Enterprises woulud all be on Windows phones. But since they cannot get those apps on Mobile, they just go to other platforms. That's the only reason people stay with Windows, the legacy ties into the desktop.
Yes, Windows catching up with the POSIX world that has done this since the '80s, iOS and Android since inception, etc... Yes, yes, that's not hard to do. Seemless, remote display is commodity on other platforms, and Windows is finally enabling it, generically, decades after others. The GDI emulation is a real PITA for them.
But has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I'm talking about portable code and making things native executing.
Yes, native Win32/ARMv7, with Win64/ARMv8 finally hitting. Instead of doing all that work in the '90s on Alpha, and making Win code 64-bit clean, they are now finally getting around to it. It is nice to finally see full, native Win64/ARMv8 and Win64/x86-64, because it's forcing Microsoft itself to write portable code, going forward -- again, most of us argued why they should do back in the '90s.
But they still require the emulation for Win32/x86-only code that won't port. Which is why their teams don't like to talk about it. The developer teams are literally 'under-the-gun' to make things work, after all those promises over all those conferences.
Before it was RT. Now it's Continuum. Next it will be ... possibly just giving into Android instead. We'll see what happens.
But Microsoft management is waking up to the reality that they have less than 1% of the phone market, and are spending a lot of money (although far less than just 2-3 years ago) to get this to work. It's getting extremely difficult to argue for this expenditure, instead of just making everything x86 for Windows, and looking at another platform when it's ARM.
Especially since there is no reason why you couldn't have a real, x86 Windows desktop display on Android, as well as Android display on a x86 Windows desktop. Again, we'll see what happens.
I ask, what was the purpose of your reiteration of everything I said? I already know all of this and I have nothing to prove. A little tip, generally, those that are REALLY in the know...say very little.
Okay, so we agree, far more than we disagree.
Yes, but Microsoft has been heavily marketing one thing, and it's been at-odds with the few insiders I know that have been confirming it's nothing of the sort.
Again, I've been around this since late NT 3.1 Alphas. They promise a lot about non-x86, non-core developments, and then drop-the-ball, and eventually promise something else, to get people distracted from what they originally promised. All the meanwhile, the reality laid bare.
We'll see if they still stick with the plan. But right now it's looking more like RT all over again. Even Azure has had to backtrack on the Powershell on Linux announcements, as things just won't port. Again, too much of .NET has dependencies on Win32/x86-only C/C++ code.
Exactly. The lunatic has to prove to everyone that he has worth. He doesn't, but he still tries.
When I have questions about the computer industry, I ask experts like Knightman, not self-proclaimed IT geeks like the lunatic who work in a call-in center and help people restart their computers. I appreciate doers, not losers.
I really don't want to read what this idiot typed, but this is what he normally does. He expands on everything you say. He doesn't contribute anything. Just ignore him, dude.
Hey UCFBS - quick fact check on RedHat:
IS MOTHER GOING TO LET PEOPLE PUT LAWN DARTS IN HER BUTTHOLE DURING THIS WEEKS TAILGATE LIKE LAST YEAR????
Please let me know.
