Just wanted to fork off a discussion to the Cooler, since we're seeing a lot of this more and more.
I've brought up the NGSW Competition a few times, from a LinkedIn article I wrote awhile back ...
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/sigs-plan-b-277-fury-bryan-j-smith/
To including it in various comments I realize I really shouldn't be 'babbling' in other threads.
Finland Re-Aligning to NATO, Sweeden Becoming Less Neutral
The more 'Russian ordinance-aligned' Fins use the RK62 (AKM-system, improved by Valmet) 7.62x39 [Short] Russian (not confused with 7.62x54R) as their standard issue, and are most well-known for the M76 and other M-improvements. The 'neutral' Swedes use the AK5 (FN FNC), 5.56x45 NATO. Those will continue to be the primary arms in the shorter term, much like our M4, the German G36, the UK's SA80 and others ... although the French just moved to the HK416 (long story).
However ...
Sweeden still has a lot of older AK4 (H&K G3), 7.62x51 NATO, rifles. And both use bolt-actions in 7.62x51 NATO and even older 6.5x55 Swedish, which is still a 'common standard' in Europe for civilian target shooters (and dominated the Olympics before .22LR was mandated, let alone smaller, reduced energy .17).
6.5x47 Creedmoor Becoming Common in US Special Forces, some Marksmen Roles
The 6.5x47 Creedmoor is also taking over, as it's like the 6.5x55 Swedish in performance, but fits in the 2.8" (71mm) over-all length (OAL) 'short-action' of a 7.62x51 weapon. The US has been buying more and more 6.5mm barrels and the 6.5 Creedmoor too for M21, M24 and countless other, bolt-action, as well as HK417 and SCAR-H (SCAR17) semi-auto platforms as well.
Hence why both are looking at a massive purchase of a 'Designated Marksman' rifles, semi-automatic systems well beyond those current, very limited bolt-action rifle option. We're talking 5 digits of units, not standard issue, but 'commonly used' among a very sparse population.
Sig Sauer's Traditional AR-10/FAL-like NGSW Rifle Platform
One system they are seriously giving a good look at is the Sig Sauer (Germany) AR-10/FAL-like platform in the MCX series, especially the Spear and other units, because it shoots the 7.62x51 NATO, the increasingly popular in special forces and sniper units 6.5x47 Creedmoor (6.5x55 Swede like ballistics), and ... this includes their new 'hybrid' cartridge similar to the one for the Next Generation Squad Weapon (NGSW) cartridge and weapons.
The commercial Sig Sauer cartridge is the .277 Fury, which is a SAAMI standardized 0.277" bullet and 6.8mm bore that could be CIP standarized as well soon too.
In the NGSW, the 6.8mm (bore) bullet was the Army's design, leaving both the cartridge and weapon designs (both rifle and light machine gun) up to the proposals. Although it's not the same bullet as the Army's 6.8mm NGSW, it's fully compatible, cartridge-wise, like .308 Winchester to 7.62 NATO (the latter is slightly longer though), not unlike the .223 Remmington to the 5.56mm NATO.
Close to the Army's specs, the .277 Fury is 6.8mm bore (.277 bullet) of 135-140gr (9g) at 3,000fps (900mps), nearly matching the requirements for 2,700ft-lbs (3,650J) class in the NGSW project. Of all the NGSW entries, the Sig Sauer approach is the only traditional approach, so -- again -- it's platform compatible with AR-10/FAL short-action in its, albeit modified for higher pressuers, as a MCX series.
That means, unlike at least one, if not both, of the other NGSW contractors, the Sig Sauer approach can also fire 7.62 NATO and 6.5 Creedmoor, all while the new alloy bolt-face/lower case + upper brass case 6.8x51 (71.8mm OAL, so it fits in many AR-10/FAL short-actions). They need the alloy to handle the 80,000 psi (550MPa) -- yes, a good 15,000 beyond even 'test spec' of anything common in AR-10/FAL -- while still fitting in that action.
And that was the point of my LinkedIn article several years back too.
Being .277 Fury Compatible the Best Bet for Smaller Nations?
As more and more militaries are looking towards an semi-auto in a standard, albeit marksman class, rifle that would be issued to more and more units. This Sig MCX offering is 'backwards compatible' but also 'future proof' options that, again, in 5 digit volumes (bringing the costs down to under mid-5 figures USD), might make the perfect choice for just about everything.
Will be interesting to watch the small arms acquisition of Sweeden and Finland together, let alone if Congress kills NGSW altogther past the selection by the Army, and does not allow general acquisition ... which is very likely. The Sig .277 Fury may still come out on-top, with the Sig MCX, in other sales, much like the AR-10 platform did in the AR-15 and AR-18, even if not AR-10 or AR-16 itself, for that matter. Although the Dutch, and a few others, did opt for the AR-10.
I've brought up the NGSW Competition a few times, from a LinkedIn article I wrote awhile back ...
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/sigs-plan-b-277-fury-bryan-j-smith/
To including it in various comments I realize I really shouldn't be 'babbling' in other threads.
- https://ucf.forums.rivals.com/threads/russia-attacks-ukraine-putin-is-a-thug-mega-thread-🇺🇦.99328/page-71#post-2481219
- https://ucf.forums.rivals.com/threa...er-before-it-begins.95944/page-4#post-2357965
Finland Re-Aligning to NATO, Sweeden Becoming Less Neutral
The more 'Russian ordinance-aligned' Fins use the RK62 (AKM-system, improved by Valmet) 7.62x39 [Short] Russian (not confused with 7.62x54R) as their standard issue, and are most well-known for the M76 and other M-improvements. The 'neutral' Swedes use the AK5 (FN FNC), 5.56x45 NATO. Those will continue to be the primary arms in the shorter term, much like our M4, the German G36, the UK's SA80 and others ... although the French just moved to the HK416 (long story).
However ...
Sweeden still has a lot of older AK4 (H&K G3), 7.62x51 NATO, rifles. And both use bolt-actions in 7.62x51 NATO and even older 6.5x55 Swedish, which is still a 'common standard' in Europe for civilian target shooters (and dominated the Olympics before .22LR was mandated, let alone smaller, reduced energy .17).
6.5x47 Creedmoor Becoming Common in US Special Forces, some Marksmen Roles
The 6.5x47 Creedmoor is also taking over, as it's like the 6.5x55 Swedish in performance, but fits in the 2.8" (71mm) over-all length (OAL) 'short-action' of a 7.62x51 weapon. The US has been buying more and more 6.5mm barrels and the 6.5 Creedmoor too for M21, M24 and countless other, bolt-action, as well as HK417 and SCAR-H (SCAR17) semi-auto platforms as well.
Hence why both are looking at a massive purchase of a 'Designated Marksman' rifles, semi-automatic systems well beyond those current, very limited bolt-action rifle option. We're talking 5 digits of units, not standard issue, but 'commonly used' among a very sparse population.
Sig Sauer's Traditional AR-10/FAL-like NGSW Rifle Platform
One system they are seriously giving a good look at is the Sig Sauer (Germany) AR-10/FAL-like platform in the MCX series, especially the Spear and other units, because it shoots the 7.62x51 NATO, the increasingly popular in special forces and sniper units 6.5x47 Creedmoor (6.5x55 Swede like ballistics), and ... this includes their new 'hybrid' cartridge similar to the one for the Next Generation Squad Weapon (NGSW) cartridge and weapons.
The commercial Sig Sauer cartridge is the .277 Fury, which is a SAAMI standardized 0.277" bullet and 6.8mm bore that could be CIP standarized as well soon too.
In the NGSW, the 6.8mm (bore) bullet was the Army's design, leaving both the cartridge and weapon designs (both rifle and light machine gun) up to the proposals. Although it's not the same bullet as the Army's 6.8mm NGSW, it's fully compatible, cartridge-wise, like .308 Winchester to 7.62 NATO (the latter is slightly longer though), not unlike the .223 Remmington to the 5.56mm NATO.
Close to the Army's specs, the .277 Fury is 6.8mm bore (.277 bullet) of 135-140gr (9g) at 3,000fps (900mps), nearly matching the requirements for 2,700ft-lbs (3,650J) class in the NGSW project. Of all the NGSW entries, the Sig Sauer approach is the only traditional approach, so -- again -- it's platform compatible with AR-10/FAL short-action in its, albeit modified for higher pressuers, as a MCX series.
That means, unlike at least one, if not both, of the other NGSW contractors, the Sig Sauer approach can also fire 7.62 NATO and 6.5 Creedmoor, all while the new alloy bolt-face/lower case + upper brass case 6.8x51 (71.8mm OAL, so it fits in many AR-10/FAL short-actions). They need the alloy to handle the 80,000 psi (550MPa) -- yes, a good 15,000 beyond even 'test spec' of anything common in AR-10/FAL -- while still fitting in that action.
And that was the point of my LinkedIn article several years back too.
Being .277 Fury Compatible the Best Bet for Smaller Nations?
As more and more militaries are looking towards an semi-auto in a standard, albeit marksman class, rifle that would be issued to more and more units. This Sig MCX offering is 'backwards compatible' but also 'future proof' options that, again, in 5 digit volumes (bringing the costs down to under mid-5 figures USD), might make the perfect choice for just about everything.
Will be interesting to watch the small arms acquisition of Sweeden and Finland together, let alone if Congress kills NGSW altogther past the selection by the Army, and does not allow general acquisition ... which is very likely. The Sig .277 Fury may still come out on-top, with the Sig MCX, in other sales, much like the AR-10 platform did in the AR-15 and AR-18, even if not AR-10 or AR-16 itself, for that matter. Although the Dutch, and a few others, did opt for the AR-10.
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