Orlando - Miami train

[UCFWayne]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/fl-all-aboard-florida-brightline-20151109-story.html

Glad to see they are moving along with the project. I dont really care what they call it as long as the price is right and it is reliable. As long as it eases up some of the congestion on the turn pike its all good.

 

[fabknight]

Oh great! Just one more way to move more Hispanics into the Orlando area.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

They should have built the HSR from Tampa to Orlando so I could be the only user and wouldn't have had to drive to Rays games. /Whatachart

 

[OmniKnight]

Cool, but why couldn't they offer higher speed trains with faster service? 60-70 minutes to Miami would be much more compelling than 3 hours

 

[mach3ucf]

Time for you to learn Spanish.. Here this will help..

https://www.duolingo.com/

 

[aent]

Cool, but why couldn't they offer higher speed trains with faster service? 60-70 minutes to Miami would be much more compelling than 3 hours

federal law would require the tracks to be grade separated to provide that level of service, an expensive proposition. they are going the maximum speed they can without having to build lots of new bridges

 

[UCFRogerz]

I don't willingly go to Miami and this doesn't make it any more likely.

 

[OmniKnight]

federal law would require the tracks to be grade separated to provide that level of service, an expensive proposition. they are going the maximum speed they can without having to build lots of new bridges

Shame the lazy life types cost us so much money, or we could afford to move upward as a society

 

[goodknightfl]

I don't willingly go to Miami and this doesn't make it any more likely.

This. another huge waste of taxpayer money.

 

[fabknight]

I don't willingly go to Miami and this doesn't make it any more likely.

However, it would make it more likely that Miami comes to you.

 

[CommuterBob]

Cool, but why couldn't they offer higher speed trains with faster service? 60-70 minutes to Miami would be much more compelling than 3 hours

The FEC already owns like 80% of the corridor, which is keeping the costs of the project down. To do true 180-200 mph HSR would need a completely sealed guideway, meaning lots of R/W acquisition, bridges, and fencing/walls to keep people and animals out of the guideway. That extra cost makes the project unfeasible financially - public or private.

 

[CommuterBob]

This. another huge waste of taxpayer money.

There's very little taxpayer money going into this (in the end - they are taking some government loans, but they will be responsible for paying those back). It's a private company that is funding the vast majority of this.

 

[CommuterBob]

They should have built the HSR from Tampa to Orlando so I could be the only user and wouldn't have had to drive to Rays games. /Whatachart

The HSR would have dropped you off in downtown Tampa. You'd still have to drive to St. Pete.

 

[UCFWayne]

Not sure why some people are complaining about this. It looks to be privately funded and adds another transportation choice. This should help keep costs down.

 

[OmniKnight]

The FEC already owns like 80% of the corridor, which is keeping the costs of the project down. To do true 180-200 mph HSR would need a completely sealed guideway, meaning lots of R/W acquisition, bridges, and fencing/walls to keep people and animals out of the guideway. That extra cost makes the project unfeasible financially - public or private.

Maybe it could be financially feasible if EBT were scaled back to exclude Pizza Hut, cigarettes, and lobster

 

[UCFKnight85]

Trains simply aren't attractive in Florida. No matter what city you're in, you'll need a car. There are no NYC's in Florida.

So all a train does is get you to a location where it's then required to.....rent a car. So instead of spending $40 in gas and driving the 3.5 hours to Miami, you have to take a train for a few hundred bucks and then rent a car for a few hundred bucks. How does that make any sense?

I guess you could take an Uber, but again, after 5-6 rides you'll be at the cost of just taking your own car down anyways.

Trains work when there are dense population centers with pre-existing underground subway mass transit. Which of course is not possible in Florida.

 

[CommuterBob]

Trains simply aren't attractive in Florida. No matter what city you're in, you'll need a car. There are no NYC's in Florida.

So all a train does is get you to a location where it's then required to.....rent a car. So instead of spending $40 in gas and driving the 3.5 hours to Miami, you have to take a train for a few hundred bucks and then rent a car for a few hundred bucks. How does that make any sense?

I guess you could take an Uber, but again, after 5-6 rides you'll be at the cost of just taking your own car down anyways.

Trains work when there are dense population centers with pre-existing underground subway mass transit. Which of course is not possible in Florida.

Define "work." Fixed rail transit operates to some degree in almost every major municipality in this country.

 

[OmniKnight]

Trains simply aren't attractive in Florida. No matter what city you're in, you'll need a car. There are no NYC's in Florida.

So all a train does is get you to a location where it's then required to.....rent a car. So instead of spending $40 in gas and driving the 3.5 hours to Miami, you have to take a train for a few hundred bucks and then rent a car for a few hundred bucks. How does that make any sense?

I guess you could take an Uber, but again, after 5-6 rides you'll be at the cost of just taking your own car down anyways.

Trains work when there are dense population centers with pre-existing underground subway mass transit. Which of course is not possible in Florida.

I don't entirely agree. I would take a train to Miami to enjoy a weekend down there... We'd walk, ride the metro, or Uber/taxi where necessary. It would sure as hell beat driving (effort, mileage, fuel, parking at hotel, parking anywhere, etc.) or dealing with airports (not much time savings, high ticket cost, parking cost, commute cost, general annoyance). It's a conceptually solid option, and the same could be said for people coming from SFL to enjoy Orlando or Tampa.

If there were true HSR to Miami, I'd leave Orlando at 6pm for a 7:30 dinner reservation and come back the same night or next morning. A 3 hour one-way trip does make that kind of short turnaround difficult to swing.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I don't entirely agree. I would take a train to Miami to enjoy a weekend down there... We'd walk, ride the metro, or Uber/taxi where necessary. It would sure as hell beat driving (effort, mileage, fuel, parking at hotel, parking anywhere, etc.) or dealing with airports (not much time savings, high ticket cost, parking cost, commute cost, general annoyance). It's a conceptually solid option, and the same could be said for people coming from SFL to enjoy Orlando or Tampa.

If there were true HSR to Miami, I'd leave Orlando at 6pm for a 7:30 dinner reservation and come back the same night or next morning. A 3 hour one-way trip does make that kind of short turnaround difficult to swing.

We'll see. It will come down to prices.

I've read that ABF estimated prices could be between $11 or $143 for a one way ticket. That's a considerable gap and prices will trend towards the $143 if ridership isn't at estimates. Another study said that they'd have to charge $273 for a one way just to cover the debt being issued on this. There will be 32 trains running per day; will they really fill those trains?

It would be a huge value at say $20 each way. It'd be completely unattractive at $120 or more each way.

 

[OmniKnight]

We'll see. It will come down to prices.

I've read that ABF estimated prices could be between $11 or $143 for a one way ticket. That's a considerable gap and prices will trend towards the $143 if ridership isn't at estimates. Another study said that they'd have to charge $273 for a one way just to cover the debt being issued on this. There will be 32 trains running per day; will they really fill those trains?

It would be a huge value at say $20 each way. It'd be completely unattractive at $120 or more each way.

Fair points, and that's their own damn fault. Have to do these things right if you're going to do them...

 

[UCF-icenhl-06]

the whole 'not having to do the long drive' thing appeals to me. I would even pay a little more for it vs. driving costs. Plus Broward County is getting Uber back so I'd just Uber to station, Uber to beach or family's house where I can use my moms car. Back to station.

In Orlando, is the station going to be reasonably close to the SunRail station? I would assume so...which adds more ability to get to south florida without having to even take your car somewhere to park.

Like it was said above, its another transportation option. I'll take it.

 

[Poolside Knight]

I'll probably never use it but International tourists will like this

 

[UCFhonors]

The FEC already owns like 80% of the corridor, which is keeping the costs of the project down. To do true 180-200 mph HSR would need a completely sealed guideway, meaning lots of R/W acquisition, bridges, and fencing/walls to keep people and animals out of the guideway. That extra cost makes the project unfeasible financially - public or private.

You mean stupid govt laws makes private enterprise advancements impossible.

 

[CommuterBob]

the whole 'not having to do the long drive' thing appeals to me. I would even pay a little more for it vs. driving costs. Plus Broward County is getting Uber back so I'd just Uber to station, Uber to beach or family's house where I can use my moms car. Back to station.

In Orlando, is the station going to be reasonably close to the SunRail station? I would assume so...which adds more ability to get to south florida without having to even take your car somewhere to park.

Like it was said above, its another transportation option. I'll take it.

The Orlando station is at OIA. SunRail is working on an extension that will connect to OIA, but it's probably 3 years or so beyond when Brightline opens up at OIA.

 

[CommuterBob]

We'll see. It will come down to prices.

I've read that ABF estimated prices could be between $11 or $143 for a one way ticket. That's a considerable gap and prices will trend towards the $143 if ridership isn't at estimates. Another study said that they'd have to charge $273 for a one way just to cover the debt being issued on this. There will be 32 trains running per day; will they really fill those trains?

It would be a huge value at say $20 each way. It'd be completely unattractive at $120 or more each way.

Most likely the lower fares between the three SFL cities and the higher fares between Orlando and SFL. It's supposed to be competitive with airfare between Orlando and SFL.

And Brightline will open up the corridor for additional Tri-Rail service in SFL in the coming years as well.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Most likely the lower fares between the three SFL cities and the higher fares between Orlando and SFL. It's supposed to be competitive with airfare between Orlando and SFL.

And Brightline will open up the corridor for additional Tri-Rail service in SFL in the coming years as well.

I hope that's not their actual strategy, because they are mostly competing against people with cars making the drive. Not people flying.

 

[UCFWayne]

85 I agree that in FL is a little harder to justify traveling by trains. We are jsut so spread out here. I think that with the advent of these light rail train systems, that might start to change in the coming years. You have to start somewhere. I just hope they keep the prices reasonable.

 

[aent]

The Orlando station is at OIA. SunRail is working on an extension that will connect to OIA, but it's probably 3 years or so beyond when Brightline opens up at OIA.

There likely will be some sort of light rail or maglev system connecting it to the International Drive. Also, the airport already has transportation to lots of hotels and theme parks like Disney World... which tons of the tourists already come to Orlando without a car and stay there.

 

[CommuterBob]

There likely will be some sort of light rail or maglev system connecting it to the International Drive.

I wouldn't hold your breath on that happening.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

It would cost me $50 in gas (even less for people in cars) plus a negligible amount in maintenance/depreciation to drive to Miami from Orlando in the same amount of time and not have to worry about paying even more for transportation in Miami. It needs to be a lot faster or cheaper for it to make sense. Dumb foreign tourists will use it but that won't amount to a lot of riders.

 

[aent]

I wouldn't hold your breath on that happening.

Why? They are building the orlando airport for it, there is private financing in place, and if the maglev fails from the company with the bad track record, there are others looking at doing the same route with a cheaper light rail system The government is likely happy to subsidize a portion of it anyways.

 

[UCF11and1]

I think I am with the majority when I say that I would pay not to have to drive the last 2 hours to Miami (or in Miami). This could be a winner with Uber or good bus service

 

[CommuterBob]

Why? They are building the orlando airport for it, there is private financing in place, and if the maglev fails from the company with the bad track record, there are others looking at doing the same route with a cheaper light rail system The government is likely happy to subsidize a portion of it anyways.

Yes, the airport is building a platform for it at the ITF (or at least they have it in their plans; whether it actually gets built or not will be the true barometer). The private financing isn't in place. The maglev team has a conditional funding agreement with their second financier (because the first one fell through) and have yet to sign any agreements with any local entities, mostly because they keep missing deadlines. At some point the local governments are going to tire of the maglev team's antics and despite the "free" price tag, are probably going to cut bait on the project.

As for the "others looking to do the same route with a cheaper light rail system," this would be the first I've seen or heard of that. Can you cite an example of this or share what you have heard?

 

[UCFWayne]

It says there will be a stop in Ft Lauderdale. I have family down there and will consider this option if its cheap enough and leave times are good.

 

[aent]

As for the "others looking to do the same route with a cheaper light rail system," this would be the first I've seen or heard of that. Can you cite an example of this or share what you have heard?

http://www.growthspotter.com/projec...give-over-to-light-rail-20151027-story.html?=
its a paid article, so a few quotes:
“Tony was in a meeting with us and Globalvia, and the principals of Globalvia said if they determine maglev would not be feasible, they would offer a light rail system,” said Phil Brown, executive director of the Greater Orlando Aviation Authority.

“Should maglev technology not be finally available for this project, Globalvia is still committed to invest its equity and raise project financing for the deployment of a light rail transit system,”

 

[CommuterBob]

http://www.growthspotter.com/projec...give-over-to-light-rail-20151027-story.html?=
its a paid article, so a few quotes:
“Tony was in a meeting with us and Globalvia, and the principals of Globalvia said if they determine maglev would not be feasible, they would offer a light rail system,” said Phil Brown, executive director of the Greater Orlando Aviation Authority.

“Should maglev technology not be finally available for this project, Globalvia is still committed to invest its equity and raise project financing for the deployment of a light rail transit system,”

Fair enough. More power to them.