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Police In Tulsa

btbones

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Haven't seen this posted but haven't been in here that much. Absolutely one of the most sickening videos I have ever seen. At a time when law enforcement needs to be mending fences these jackasses throw gasoline on the fire. Inexcusable and not something that can be labeled a mistake. Pure and simple act of murder and should be treated as such
 
Yeah, I saw this yesterday. Disgusting abuse of force. I get that the guy wasn't complying with everything the cops were asking of him, but he was unarmed and had his hands in the air. There really wasn't a reason to have the weapons drawn in the first place.

Not complying with directions is not an offense punishable by death.
 
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Except his hands weren't up when he was shot. Go to the helicopter footage and stop it at 11 seconds; he is next to an open side window and his right hand is reaching for, or into, his pocket for something during a time when police have ordered him to keep his hands up and away from his body.

I have no idea what he did before this that could possibly lead to this confrontation, but the idea that his hands were up at time of shooting is a lie. There is video to prove that.
 
http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/teren...censored-youtube-audio-unarmed-hands-arms-up/

Link includes a lot of videos.

Again, he was unarmed. Why were the police pointing their weapons at an unarmed man? Sure he "allegedly" didn't comply with instructions, but since when is that an offense punishable by death?

EDIT: The helicopter video includes audio from the pilot saying "he looks like a bad dude." The pilot is flying 100 feet or so above the scene of a guy walking with his hands in the air. The only way that conclusion can be reached is because the suspect/victim is black.
 
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Looks like a mistake to me.

She is alone with him and he is non-compliant so she goes lethal. That's pretty standard.

He disregards her and walks back to the car. Another cop shows up and deploys his taser.

The guy moves his hands as if he is going to reach into his pocket or open the door. Cop 2 lights him up with the taser. It is ineffective and he continues with his furtive movements. Cop 1 squeezes the trigger thinking she was going to taser him again, but she forgets she has a gun in her hand and shoots him.

The stuff planted in the paper is somewhat troubling. He might be a father and might be enrolled at TCC, but he was also on felony probation for drug trafficking, had a history of violent offenses, and there was a warrant for his arrest. If you are going to report on character, report it all.

It's unclear how much the cops knew about his background and if that affected their decision making. I doubt it mattered. They were out there talking to him in response to a violent domestic incident.

The investigation into the shooting is being treated as a criminal matter. That's a good thing, but I don't see the criminal intent element here.
 
he was also on felony probation for drug trafficking, had a history of violent offenses, and there was a warrant for his arrest.
Not according to the article I linked, though. EDIT: hmmm, that information that said he hadn't been arrested since 1996 and didn't even have so much as a traffic ticket since 2005 has been deleted.

She is alone with him and he is non-compliant so she goes lethal. That's pretty standard.

Watch the videos. This is incorrect he is being tasered and shot almost simultaneously and there are FOUR cops pointing weapons at him. And again, non-compliance is not grounds for lethal force.
 
Can we get some good ass tasers? None of this Obama's America Van Jones green jobs shit taser. Cops need a way to knock people who aren't following lawful orders out without killing them.
 
Multiple camera angles show him reaching into his car or trying to open his door. I guess the cops should have waited until he pulled a gun on them and started shooting? Why is it so difficult to listen to simple requests from police?
 
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Can we get some good ass tasers? None of this Obama's America Van Jones green jobs shit taser. Cops need a way to knock people who aren't following lawful orders out without killing them.
Because police departments kept getting sued every time one was used. I bet they decided they werent worth the cost of litigation they brought.
 
There was a guy on MSNBC a few weeks back arguing that cops shouldn't have tasers. If they are allowed to beat people up again and get their aggression out, suspects won't get electrocuted or killed.
 
Multiple camera angles show him reaching into his car or trying to open his door. I guess the cops should have waited until he pulled a gun on them and started shooting? Why is it so difficult to listen to simple requests from police?
So you believe non-compliance should be met with the death penalty? Ridiculous. There was no weapon. And yes, they should have waited until he pulled a gun to start shooting.
 
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Make no mistake. Im not defending her actions, just attempting to explain other potential scenarios. I've been teaching cops for close to a decade now. Unlike some of the other armchairs out there on the net, I actually have a tiny bit of knowledge on these issues.

As for the background of the suspect, I am admitted to the bar in Oklahoma. I know my way around the courthouse website in Tulsa. His record is his record. If the media doesnt want to risk being accused of "Trayvonning" him and omitting details that MIGHT have influenced the actions of the officers IF she/they knew them, they shouldn't be putting stuff in the newspaper about him being a pastor either. His record is his record. Unless there is a different person with the same name in Tulsa County, and that is quite possible, he has been convicted of multiple violent felonies and there was an active warrant for his arrest for violation of probation relating to drug trafficking. Not possession, not sale, trafficking. The same people who claim he was some kind of saint in the community are the same people who hired Ben Crump (Trayvon and Ferguson lawyer) within HOURS of his death before they could possibly know the circumstances surrounding the shooting. So forgive me for discounting what the paper says.

But let's be fair. Why in the hell is a 40 year old woman with 3 years of experience out on patrol alone in a violent crime area? Who joins the police department as a second career in their late 30s? Even if you do, if you are a road toad, you either wanted that job or they wouldn't give you anything else. Neither is a good sign. You have to wonder about the psychological profile and fear factor here. Plenty of questions about hiring, not just training here.




I have watched the videos. I was talking about the time period before the other officers arrive and she is alone and he is walking back to the car. We simply don't know what she knew at the time, what he said, what he was doing, or why he was going back to the car.

All of that said, contrary to your assertion, non-compliance under certain circumstances is grounds for using deadly force. It depends on the context of the use of the weapon and what weapon is used. Deadly force is a baton. In some departments the taser is deadly force, but lower on the lethal scale than the firearm. I invite you to go to your local sheriff's office citizen academy. Most of them have "shoot-dont shoot" training simulators available to the citizenry so you get a chance to understand what decision making is all about. I went through an extended training program as a prosecutor because I was assigned to a community policing unit and had to be out on the street a lot. I scored higher than any cadet that had gone through the entire training that year -- and I still got killed twice. Once by a guy in a convenience store (I was supposedly dispatched to check on the welfare of a female after a domestic battery in the parking lot.) As I walked up in the simulator, a guy approached me, told me that his wife was in the car and that his 2 year old was upset and choking on something. He handed the baby to me and I informed the training officer that I would begin infant choking EMS. The guy shot me in the forehead before I could finish the sentence. If I had looked over to see that the woman was dead in the car, he would have shot me too. It can be that quick. Everyone in Oklahoma has guns. EVERYONE. You have to operate on the assumption that anyone that is reaching into their pocket when a cop is telling them not to, no matter how unreasonable the situation, is carrying a gun and could use it. You cannot wait until the gun is produced to react in every situation. If you do, you'll be dead. So you have to take procedures under certain circumstances to minimize that risk. For whatever reason, this guy didnt want to do that. What I think happened is that he got agitated, her fear and stress level went up, and she accidentally discharged the firearm thinking that she was holding a taser. But it is also possible that she thought he was connected to the violent domestic disturbance she was responding to when she saw the car, she knew he was a violent felon, that he wasn't obeying commands, she thought he might know there was a warrant for his arrest so he could be a flight risk, and the guy reached into his pocket after being told not to. I don't think that happened here, but its an example of how the context of the video can change the perception of what you see.

Im sure the feds will figure it out. Until then, forgive me for discounting your take based on what Ben Crump and his family have told the media looking for a payout.
 
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It's almost as if he was trying to prove a point... I will never understand why someone wouldn't just listen and follow directions especially with four guns pointed at you, but yes I'm just a white male who's never been profiled.
 
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So you believe non-compliance should be met with the death penalty? Ridiculous.

When did I say that?

There was no weapon. And yes, they should have waited until he pulled a gun to start shooting.

The cops didn't know that. The guy is reaching for something. If he listened to multiple very simple requests he would still be alive.
 
Multiple camera angles show him reaching into his car or trying to open his door. I guess the cops should have waited until he pulled a gun on them and started shooting? Why is it so difficult to listen to simple requests from police?

Its the nature of our technology driven society. In our daily bubble protected by technology, we have a greater control over how we interact with people and what is available to us. Tired of having to answer the phone and communicate when someone else wants to talk to you, we now have texting and email. If you want to respond, you will. Everyone goes into a restaurant and through a combination of allergy excuses and "on the side" ordering creates their own menu. You can have 60 beers on the shelf of your bar and at least one douchebag per hour will come in and ignore the huge beer selection and complain you don't have something else. Not because that is what he actually wanted, but because I have so many choices and HE is unable to control the situation and demand something specific. He had to look through the menu to figure out what we didnt have before he asked for it and tried to leverage the conversation.

Same thing here. Im betting this guy was sick of being on probation. He was probably sick of racist ass Tulsa cops. And make no mistake, a large portion of them are straight up on par with Klan members, even some of the black ones. His car breaks down and rather than treating him like an 80 year old woman broken down on the side of the road, she went through her training steps to minimize the risk that this was an ambush, he was a violent fleeing felon, etc. This guy decided that he didnt want to be treated that way, that he should be given the benefit of the doubt and be in control of the situation, not her. He wound up dead. Why? We don't know. I betting it was an accident, but it is clear from the beginning of the tape that it began because he wanted to control the situation, not her.
 
Also, there is a car downstream of the fired shot. Thankfully, the officer hit her target, because otherwise she could have ended up shooting an innocent bystander who was just sitting there.
 
When did I say that?



The cops didn't know that. The guy is reaching for something. If he listened to multiple very simple requests he would still be alive.
If the cops hadn't shot him, he'd still be alive. There were other ways of dealing with a non-compliant suspect other than shooting him, especially when the scene isn't clear of other people and the cops put more than the suspect in harm's way.
 
If the cops hadn't shot him, he'd still be alive. There were other ways of dealing with a non-compliant suspect other than shooting him, especially when the scene isn't clear of other people and the cops put more than the suspect in harm's way.

This guy couldn't control how the police would react. He could control his own actions though. Self preservation.
 
This guy couldn't control how the police would react. He could control his own actions though. Self preservation.
So the police have carte blanche to act of their own self-preservation above the safety of the public? The police are not there to control how people act, unless they are under arrest. This man was not in the commission of a crime. He was not a danger to the public. His only offense was that he walked away from a cop, who really had no reason to detain him.
 
So the police have carte blanche to act of their own self-preservation above the safety of the public? The police are not there to control how people act, unless they are under arrest. This man was not in the commission of a crime. He was not a danger to the public. His only offense was that he walked away from a cop, who really had no reason to detain him.

Self preservation. If multiple cops have guns pulled on me I'm going to do everything they say. He had no control over what the cops were going to do, so why tempt it. 99% of people would have left this confrontation alive.
 
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Self preservation. If multiple cops have guns pulled on me I'm going to do everything they say. He had no control over what the cops were going to do, so why tempt it. 99% of people would have left this confrontation alive.
I have to ask, why would the cops have the guns pulled in the first place? He's pulled over because his car stalled. He's not in the commission of a crime. He's not threatening anyone. Why are the weapons drawn?
 
I have to ask, why would the cops have the guns pulled in the first place? He's pulled over because his car stalled. He's not in the commission of a crime. He's not threatening anyone. Why are the weapons drawn?

Because he's a scary looking black dude. Were he white, he'd have been taken calmly and probably driven to Burger King so he could satisfy his munchies.
 
I have to ask, why would the cops have the guns pulled in the first place? He's pulled over because his car stalled. He's not in the commission of a crime. He's not threatening anyone. Why are the weapons drawn?
Exactly. If he had " accidentally " shot and killed the officer or an unarmed citizen he would be charged with murder in some fashion or other. Same rule should apply here imo. I may be missing something but this guy didn't deserve to die
 
I have to ask, why would the cops have the guns pulled in the first place? He's pulled over because his car stalled. He's not in the commission of a crime. He's not threatening anyone. Why are the weapons drawn?
Was there even audio or are you making up the part about "He's not threatening anyone?" All I saw was the helicopter video.

Regardless, a drawn weapon is a pretty good indication of intent and a pretty obvious clue, even to the most casual observer, that you do as asked and stop whatever you are doing that caused the draw. There is no way this guy has been blind to the past few years of police violence.

What is the motivation for ignoring a command issued by a cop, regardless of other circumstances? Why do that if there is no reason to? Why continue to ignore commands if a weapon is drawn? I don't get it. I honestly don't get it, but then again, I've never been put in a situation like that since I'm a white male and likely racist (I'm not), if you believe the media stereotypes.

I watched the helicopter video on mute. Based on that video and the comments in this thread, I agree that the police officer who did the shooting needs to be put in prison / tried for murder. All police shootings need to be treated as such, no matter the race of the person(s) involved, really, at least until these pieces of shit are weeded out.
 
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Something tells me the responding cops didn't treat him like a little old lady who's car had broken down. In fact, they likely only added to his frustration with the situation. Things escalated from there. Cops were in fear for their lives... blah blah blah you know the rest.
 
I have to ask, why would the cops have the guns pulled in the first place? He's pulled over because his car stalled. He's not in the commission of a crime. He's not threatening anyone. Why are the weapons drawn?

No one here knows but if racism is as rampant in Tulsa as Huffy says then why even give them an opportunity to do something when four of them have guns pulled. Just follow what they are saying ffs.
 
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Either lazy reporting, unsophisticated reporting, biased reporting, or principled journalism only reporting facts known and verifiable. It depends on how you want to spin it.

TerEnce Crutcher, age 40 had no record, but had recently been sued for not paying the money he owed to the Oklahoma Mental Health Association.

TerAnce Crutcher, also aged 40, was known drug trafficker with a shooting with intent to kill arrest that was dropped when a witness didnt show up. Same person? No way to know without comparing the fingerprints on the deceased with the fingerprints on the judgment and sentence. So I am possibly wrong, but given the use of criminal aliases and the similarity of the names being explained away as simply a typo, if probably right.
 
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Was there even audio or are you making up the part about "He's not threatening anyone?" All I saw was the helicopter video.

Regardless, a drawn weapon is a pretty good indication of intent and a pretty obvious clue, even to the most casual observer, that you do as asked and stop whatever you are doing that caused the draw. There is no way this guy has been blind to the past few years of police violence.

What is the motivation for ignoring a command issued by a cop, regardless of other circumstances? Why do that if there is no reason to? Why continue to ignore commands if a weapon is drawn? I don't get it. I honestly don't get it, but then again, I've never been put in a situation like that since I'm a white male and likely racist (I'm not), if you believe the media stereotypes.

I watched the helicopter video on mute. Based on that video and the comments in this thread, I agree that the police officer who did the shooting needs to be put in prison / tried for murder. All police shootings need to be treated as such, no matter the race of the person(s) involved, really, at least until these pieces of shit are weeded out.
His car stalled and he left it in the middle of the road. Someone called 911 to report the car in the middle of the road. The responding officer was on her way to a domestic disturbance call (unrelated, but another officer said it could be for some reason) and saw him. According to the 911 audio, he was high on something and it was sitting there for at least 10 minutes. The guy ran up to another driver claiming the SUV was going to blow up.

So if he's high, what are the chances, he's thinking rationally? Pretty slim. Still not an offense worth the death penalty without a trial.
 
And just watched the helicopter video again. There is a blood streak on the driver's door window. He can't be reaching into the door if the window is up, and there can't be a streak on the window if the window is down.

EDIT: Still shot showing blood streak on the window.
 
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First off they don't know if he is or isn't armed. I agree she didn't need to fire, most likely panicked. I don't know, but I think if a cop has his/her gun pulled on me, I am doing what ever they want. His right hand clearly was no longer up, what he was doing I have no idea.
 
And just watched the helicopter video again. There is a blood streak on the driver's door window. He can't be reaching into the door if the window is up, and there can't be a streak on the window if the window is down.

He was still reaching for something. His hand went down. Just listen to the fuking cops when they have four guns pulled on you. It's really very very very simple.
 
His car stalled and he left it in the middle of the road. Someone called 911 to report the car in the middle of the road. The responding officer was on her way to a domestic disturbance call (unrelated, but another officer said it could be for some reason) and saw him. According to the 911 audio, he was high on something and it was sitting there for at least 10 minutes. The guy ran up to another driver claiming the SUV was going to blow up.

So if he's high, what are the chances, he's thinking rationally? Pretty slim. Still not an offense worth the death penalty without a trial.
That's about the only explanation for non-compliance with an officer is being high AF. This is also a reason for the officer to be jumpy if the guy is acting irrationally, not listening, and heading towards his car.

When viewing a vehicle from the back, can you honestly tell that the side window is not open? Doubtful.

Just so we're clear. I'm NOT saying this shooting was justified in any way shape or form.

Reasons to disobey cop.
1. Did something or plan on doing something wrong, potentially putting lives at risk
2. High af
3. Tarded
 
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