Racism doesn’t exist

[Crazyhole]

According to CRT, race is a social construct therefore it is not objectively real. Race can not be measured nor quantified in any way because it is made up.

So how can someone be a racist if race doesn't exist? How would a racist know who to hate?

 

[Crazyhole]

Sexism also can't exist because sex is fluid. I have no idea who I'm supposed to be discriminating against.

 

[Cubs79]

A Social construct does not mean something is fake.

 

[Crazyhole]

A Social construct does not mean something is fake.

A social construct is something that is not objectively real.

 

[Cubs79]

A social construct is something that is not objectively real.

No it doesnt. If race is a social construct, which it is, that doesnt mean that people arent still viewed as a particular race. They are. And because they are it also means racism can and does exist.

 

[Crazyhole]

No it doesnt. If race is a social construct, which it is, that doesnt mean that people arent still viewed as a particular race. They are. And because they are it also means racism can and does exist.

How do I know what race a person is?

 

[Cubs79]

How do I know what race a person is?

Dude, quit acting dumb. You very well know that people view a persons race based off their physical appearance and in most cases skin color.

 

[Crazyhole]

Dude, quit acting dumb. You very well know that people view a persons race based off their physical appearance and in most cases skin color.

Lol. You just gave an objective description of a thing that by definition is not objectively real. Big dumb.

 

[Cubs79]

Lol. You just gave an objective description of a thing that by definition is not objectively real. Big dumb.

It is objective because society has made it that way, do you not understand this? It isnt science based, it is society based. Again, just because something is a social construct, it doesnt mean the construct isnt real.

 

[Crazyhole]

It is objective because society has made it that way, do you not understand this? It isnt science based, it is society based. Again, just because something is a social construct, it doesnt mean the construct isnt real.

If society changes it, will it still be objective?

 

[Cubs79]

If society changes it, will it still be objective?

Not necessarily, I mean things change in the world.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

1.3/10

 

[Crazyhole]

Not necessarily, I mean things change in the world.

So eventually, if society decides it, you would agree that an "X" is an "A".

 

[Cubs79]

So eventually, if society decides it, you would agree that an "X" is an "A".

Its not an equation. Sociatel viewpoints, norms, moress, etc change over time. Views on various things today are different than views were in the 1960s, 1800s, 1500s, etc etc etc.

 

[Crazyhole]

Its not an equation. Sociatel viewpoints, norms, moress, etc change over time. Views on various things today are different than views were in the 1960s, 1800s, 1500s, etc etc etc.

Of course it is. Race is a social construct and was invented just a few hundred years ago, and it is a purely American phenomenon. (People in Africa have no idea that race is even a thing, still to this day). Prior to that, there was no way to delineate race. Society had no idea that people that had dark skin were any different than people of light skin. They couldn't even perceive it.

 

[Cubs79]

Of course it is. Race is a social construct and was invented just a few hundred years ago, and it is a purely American phenomenon. (People in Africa have no idea that race is even a thing, still to this day). Prior to that, there was no way to delineate race. Society had no idea that people that had dark skin were any different than people of light skin. They couldn't even perceive it.

You are going off the rails.

 

[Crazyhole]

You are going off the rails.

Lol. Does it make you mad that I'm pointing out the paradox that CRT has created? Or does it make you mad that I am happy to accept that race is a social construct so I don't see the color of people's skin?

 

[Cubs79]

Lol. Does it make you mad that I'm pointing out the paradox that CRT has created? Or does it make you mad that I am happy to accept that race is a social construct so I don't see the color of people's skin?

You havent pointed out a paradox. You think you are, but that is because you arent understanding that race can be both a construct, and a real thing based on societies views, at the same time.

 

[Crazyhole]

You havent pointed out a paradox. You think you are, but that is because you arent understanding that race can be both a construct, and a real thing based on societies views, at the same time.

Is a social construct objectively real? Can it be quantified in any way, and if so, how?

 

[Cubs79]

Is a social construct objectively real? Can it be quantified in any way, and if so, how?

It doesnt matter if it is objectively real. If it is society's perception it is still true at that moment.

 

[Crazyhole]

It doesnt matter if it is objectively real. If it is society's perception it is still true at that moment.

Sweet. If society agreed that I am an attack helicopter, I can be an attack helicopter. If society agrees that the earth is flat, the earth is flat. If society agrees that God is real, he is real.

 

[Cubs79]

Sweet. If society agreed that I am an attack helicopter, I can be an attack helicopter. If society agrees that the earth is flat, the earth is flat. If society agrees that God is real, he is real.

The Earth being round is science, not a construct. I dont think you really understand what a social construct is, which is the problem here.

The Earth is round whether people believe it is round or not, that is science. The idea of race only exists because people made it exist. See the difference?

 

[Crazyhole]

The Earth being round is science, not a construct. I dont think you really understand what a social construct is, which is the problem here.

The Earth is round whether people believe it is round or not, that is science. The idea of race only exists because people made it exist. See the difference?

Are black people objectively black? Are white people objectively white? Can you tell by observation or does society have to agree that it is true?

 

[Cubs79]

Are black people objectively black? Are white people objectively white? Can you tell by observation or does society have to agree that it is true?

Does society have to agree what is true? Different skin tones? That is observable obviously, but that isnt race in and of itself. There are obviously lots of ranges in peoples skin tones even within the same races.

 

[Crazyhole]

Does society have to agree what is true? Different skin tones? That is observable obviously, but that isnt race in and of itself. There are obviously lots of ranges in peoples skin tones even within the same races.

Society has always agreed on what race is, until now. You and I could sit side by side and agree that "that person is white, that person is black, that person is east asian", but CRT is saying that this is based on a social construct and NOT on quantifiable, observable characteristics.

So why would you entertain the idea that what you can see with your own eyes may be wrong? It's deception intended to confuse you, and we all need to reject it before it goes any further.

 

[Cubs79]

Society has always agreed on what race is, until now. You and I could sit side by side and agree that "that person is white, that person is black, that person is east asian", but CRT is saying that this is based on a social construct and NOT on quantifiable, observable characteristics.

So why would you entertain the idea that what you can see with your own eyes may be wrong? It's deception intended to confuse you, and we all need to reject it before it goes any further.

It is based on a construct. Society accepts a lot of constructs.

You are trying to equate color with the idea of race. They arent the same thing. A ginger, freckled, pale Irish person, and an olive skinned, dark hair Italian are both considered white in this day and age, but they dont have the same skin tone. Society has decided they are white.

 

[Crazyhole]

It is based on a construct. Society accepts a lot of constructs.

You are trying to equate color with the idea of race. They arent the same thing. A ginger, freckled, pale Irish person, and an olive skinned, dark hair Italian are both considered white in this day and age, but they dont have the same skin tone. Society has decided they are white.

No, and you just proved it by defining people based on their physical characteristics and ascribing an accurate heritage to them. There is no confusion whatsoever in reality, and you know it. You cannot say in any honesty whatsoever that if you see a black person or an Asian person that you would have NO IDEA what their race is when you can easily identify the differences between Irish people and Italian people.

 

[Cubs79]

No, and you just proved it by defining people based on their physical characteristics and ascribing an accurate heritage to them. There is no confusion whatsoever in reality, and you know it. You cannot say in any honesty whatsoever that if you see a black person or an Asian person that you would have NO IDEA what their race is when you can easily identify the differences between Irish people and Italian people.

Huh? THat makes no sense. I pointed out that different skin tones can still considered the same race.

Of course I would know what their race is, that doesnt make any less a construct. You dont understand what a social construct is.

 

[Crazyhole]

Huh? THat makes no sense. I pointed out that different skin tones can still considered the same race.

Of course I would know what their race is, that doesnt make any less a construct. You dont understand what a social construct is.

A social construct is something that is not objectively real, it is something that society agrees upon, like currency or language.

If society agrees that a black man is a white woman, that doesn't make it real no matter how hard you try to believe it because there is a quantifiable aspect to both that dictate reality.


But I'll entertain your premise. Tell me why the traditional approach to determine race or sex by observation and measurable quantifiable factors is faulty compared to your claim that both are based on the fluidity of popular opinion.

 

[Cubs79]

A social construct is something that is not objectively real, it is something that society agrees upon, like currency or language.

If society agrees that a black man is a white woman, that doesn't make it real no matter how hard you try to believe it because there is a quantifiable aspect to both that dictate reality.


But I'll entertain your premise. Tell me why the traditional approach to determine race or sex by observation and measurable quantifiable factors is faulty compared to your claim that both are based on the fluidity of popular opinion.

You keep using the term not objectively real. That is not what a social construct is. Social constructs are real, they just arent organic. Money, is a social construct, but money is real and does exist. It is the same for race. Race does exist, but it is a social construct, because society made it one.

I didnt say it was faulty. Being a social construct isn't necessarily a fault. It can be for sure, but it doesnt have to be. Many social constructs are positive I would say.

 

[Crazyhole]

You keep using the term not objectively real. That is not what a social construct is. Social constructs are real, they just arent organic. Money, is a social construct, but money is real and does exist. It is the same for race. Race does exist, but it is a social construct, because society made it one.

I didnt say it was faulty. Being a social construct isn't necessarily a fault. It can be for sure, but it doesnt have to be. Many social constructs are positive I would say.

Why People Make Social Constructs and How They Can Change

A social construct helps humans understand the objective world. Both gender and race are examples of social constructs. Learn more about this term and its history.

www.verywellmind.com

A social construct is not objectively real. That is why I cannot say I am an attack helicopter because an attack helicopter is an objectively real thing. Race is not a social construct because it also is based on objectively real attributes that are observable and quantifiable. Unless you are willing to say that Donald Trump could be a black woman if society agrees on it, you may as well admit the obvious, which is that race is an objective reality.

 

[fried-chicken]

Crazyhole is determined to be dumb on this and many other issues. He probably heard this on some chud podcast and thought he had a major gotcha moment.

He underestimated that he's a moron and this isn't that complex to understand.

 

[fried-chicken]

Why People Make Social Constructs and How They Can Change

A social construct helps humans understand the objective world. Both gender and race are examples of social constructs. Learn more about this term and its history.

www.verywellmind.com

A social construct is not objectively real. That is why I cannot say I am an attack helicopter because an attack helicopter is an objectively real thing. Race is not a social construct because it also is based on objectively real attributes that are observable and quantifiable. Unless you are willing to say that Donald Trump could be a black woman if society agrees on it, you may as well admit the obvious, which is that race is an objective reality.

Melanin level is observable. Other than that, race that is based on physical features is a mash up of stereotypical assumptions which are not always accurate. An attack helicopter always looks the same. A white person doesn't always look the same.

 

[Cubs79]

Why People Make Social Constructs and How They Can Change

A social construct helps humans understand the objective world. Both gender and race are examples of social constructs. Learn more about this term and its history.

www.verywellmind.com

A social construct is not objectively real. That is why I cannot say I am an attack helicopter because an attack helicopter is an objectively real thing. Race is not a social construct because it also is based on objectively real attributes that are observable and quantifiable. Unless you are willing to say that Donald Trump could be a black woman if society agrees on it, you may as well admit the obvious, which is that race is an objective reality.

It can most certainly be objectively real. We create things all the time that are real, so why cant a social construct be real? Is money not real?

If the idea of race didnt exist then the idea of Donald Trump being black would also not exist, since the idea of black as a race would also not exist. So no, he cannot be a black person based on how we view race at this point in time.

But you arent an attack helicopter. You can call yourself one yes, but that doesnt mean you are one (and no, that is not meant to allude to a transgender people).

 

[Crazyhole]

Melanin level is observable. Other than that, race that is based on physical features is a mash up of stereotypical assumptions which are not always accurate. An attack helicopter always looks the same. A white person doesn't always look the same.

Who said a white person always has to look the same? Race can be multi-modal. Obviously there are overlaps in racial characteristics but they are not a social construct invented 300 years ago. Sex, on the other hand is not bimodal or fluid in any way. There is a clear demarcation point between one sex and the other. These issues go hand in hand because both are being presented as things that are simply determined by popular opinion, which is nothing more than a deception tactic.

 

[Cubs79]

Who said a white person always has to look the same? Race can be multi-modal. Obviously there are overlaps in racial characteristics but they are not a social construct invented 300 years ago. Sex, on the other hand is not bimodal or fluid in any way. There is a clear demarcation point between one sex and the other. These issues go hand in hand because both are being presented as things that are simply determined by popular opinion, which is nothing more than a deception tactic.

Nobody is arguing sex is fluid. You are equating sex and gender. Sex is scientific, gender is a social construct.

 

[Crazyhole]

It can most certainly be objectively real. We create things all the time that are real, so why cant a social construct be real? Is money not real?

If the idea of race didnt exist then the idea of Donald Trump being black would also not exist, since the idea of black as a race would also not exist. So no, he cannot be a black person based on how we view race at this point in time.

But you arent an attack helicopter. You can call yourself one yes, but that doesnt mean you are one (and no, that is not meant to allude to a transgender people).

Correct. No matter how much I try to convince someone, and no matter how hard I try to change my body, I can never be an attack helicopter. I can also never be a woman, nor can anyone else that is born a biological male. I can't be a turtle, a rock, or a jet propulsion pack for Iron man. If I believed I was, that would be a form of mental illness. It would also be a mental illness if I claimed that I am black, but according to you as long as society agrees that I am black it's totally legit.

 

[Cubs79]

Correct. No matter how much I try to convince someone, and no matter how hard I try to change my body, I can never be an attack helicopter. I can also never be a woman, nor can anyone else that is born a biological male. I can't be a turtle, a rock, or a jet propulsion pack for Iron man. If I believed I was, that would be a form of mental illness. It would also be a mental illness if I claimed that I am black, but according to you as long as society agrees that I am black it's totally legit.

You already have a transgender thread, this thread is about race. Everything doesnt have to revolve about the rights fascination with transgenders.

 

[Crazyhole]

Nobody is arguing sex is fluid. You are equating sex and gender. Sex is scientific, gender is a social construct.

You better keep up son. They didn't stop at gender, sex is now fluid as well.

5 years ago the idea of gender being fluid would have been a joke, but today you embrace it. What will you embrace tomorrow?

 

[Crazyhole]

You already have a transgender thread, this thread is about race. Everything doesnt have to revolve about the rights fascination with transgenders.

It's all tied together.