Rep Ilhan Omar and Israel

[DaShuckster]

Representative Omar's comments about Israel has been an interesting story. It raises the question, "how can we question our country's ironclad support for Israel without being automatically labeled anti-semitic?"

When Omar story first broke, I had a hard time finding out exactly what Omar said that was so anti-semitic. After an internet search I finally determined Omar's crimes were to comment on the power of pro-Israel lobbying by saying "It's all about the Benjamins" and questioning the apparent 'dual allegiance' of some wealthy and influential American Jews when it comes to support for Israel.

Maybe it shows my anti-semitic naivete'. but I thought big bucks (you know, the Benjamins) was the very essence of lobbying. And when wealthy and influential American Jews can be counted on to be 'all-in' on Israel no matter what the issue, their allegiance can't be questioned without it being anti-semitic?

While I can appreciate the knee-jerk response to Omar's remarks, it still begs the question, how can we have an honest discussion about our support for Israel without the questioner being labeled as anti-semitic?

 

[Crazyhole]

Representative Omar's comments about Israel has been an interesting story. It raises the question, "how can we question our country's ironclad support for Israel without being automatically labeled anti-semitic?"

When Omar story first broke, I had a hard time finding out exactly what Omar said that was so anti-semitic. After an internet search I finally determined Omar's crimes were to comment on the power of pro-Israel lobbying by saying "It's all about the Benjamins" and questioning the apparent 'dual allegiance' of some wealthy and influential American Jews when it comes to support for Israel.

Maybe it shows my anti-semitic naivete'. but I thought big bucks (you know, the Benjamins) was the very essence of lobbying. And when wealthy and influential American Jews can be counted on to be 'all-in' on Israel no matter what the issue, their allegiance can't be questioned without it being anti-semitic?

While I can appreciate the knee-jerk response to Omar's remarks, it still begs the question, how can we have an honest discussion about our support for Israel without the questioner being labeled as anti-semitic?

When political theater is involved, there cant be an honest discussion. My first reaction to that comment was "damn straight, its just another example of how special interest lobbyists are too influential".

IMO, we do need to support Israel as an ally but it needs to be based on what is in our own best interests. They are a valuable partner to have in the middle east but just like any other country we shouldnt be giving them a bunch of money we don't have.

 

[UCFKnight85]

It’s actually really simple. If you rehash disgusting anti-Semitic stereotypes that have been used against Jews for decades then you’re going to be outed as an anti-Semite.

Saying Jewish money controls the US Govt or accusing American Jews of having a “dual allegiance” is literally what anti-Semites on both sides of the spectrum have been using to build resentment against Jews for decades.

She’s an anti-Semite. She associates with known anti-Senites and people who openly believe that Israel should not exist.

Trying to tie ANY of this to criticism of Israel is a pathetic deflection to buy her cover for her remarks. There are ways of criciisizing policies without invoking some of the worst anti-Jewish fear mongering sterotypes

 

[DaShuckster]

Saying Jewish money controls the US Govt or accusing American Jews of having a “dual allegiance” is literally what anti-Semites on both sides of the spectrum have been using to build resentment against Jews for decades.

I get the concern -- and when the criticism is coming from our first Muslim Congresswoman, it's certainly not going to be dismissed either.

But the hard truth is that pro-Israel lobbying IS a big deal and there are American Jews who are so unequivocally pro-Israel that one might honestly wonder what IS behind their support.

So do we ignore what we're seeing for fear of being dubbed anti-semitic? Is it even possible to engage in a 'PC discussion' regarding the level of support we provide to Israel?

 

[Crazyhole]

It’s actually really simple. If you rehash disgusting anti-Semitic stereotypes that have been used against Jews for decades then you’re going to be outed as an anti-Semite.

Saying Jewish money controls the US Govt or accusing American Jews of having a “dual allegiance” is literally what anti-Semites on both sides of the spectrum have been using to build resentment against Jews for decades.

She’s an anti-Semite. She associates with known anti-Senites and people who openly believe that Israel should not exist.

Trying to tie ANY of this to criticism of Israel is a pathetic deflection to buy her cover for her remarks. There are ways of criciisizing policies without invoking some of the worst anti-Jewish fear mongering sterotypes

You're extrapolating from her remark to fit a narrative. It's possible that it could have been a passive-aggressive shot at jewish-american money but just taking it at face value it really doesn't seem that bad. "Its all about the benjamins" can be said about anyone who is greedy.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I get the concern -- and when the criticism is coming from our first Muslim Congresswoman, it's certainly not going to be dismissed either.

But the hard truth is that pro-Israel lobbying IS a big deal and there are American Jews who are so unequivocally pro-Israel that one might honestly wonder what IS behind their support.

So do we ignore what we're seeing for fear of being dubbed anti-semitic? Is it even possible to engage in a 'PC discussion' regarding the level of support we provide to Israel?

Israel is a county that was founded following the largest mass slaughter of a religion in history, and in the first 20 years of being founded, was attacked 4 times by a multi-nation coalition of Arab and Muslim countries that refused to accept that a Jewish state should be allowed to exist.

……….and you wonder why American Jews may care so much about support for Israel?

There are thousands of American Christians who are extremely pro-Israel as well. Why don't they get the "dual allegiance" smears like Jews do? When's the last time Omar accused Marco Rubio of having a "dual allegiance" for being 100% pro-Israel?

As I said, it's extremely easy to criticize Israel's POLICY if you want, without invoking some of the most disgusting anti-Semitic smears that literally date back to 1939 Germany.

 

[Crazyhole]

Israel is a county that was founded following the largest mass slaughter of a religion in history, and in the first 20 years of being founded, was attacked 4 times by a multi-nation coalition of Arab and Muslim countries that refused to accept that a Jewish state should be allowed to exist.

……….and you wonder why American Jews may care so much about support for Israel?

There are thousands of American Christians who are extremely pro-Israel as well. Why don't they get the "dual allegiance" smears like Jews do? When's the last time Omar accused Marco Rubio of having a "dual allegiance" for being 100% pro-Israel?

As I said, it's extremely easy to criticize Israel's POLICY if you want, without invoking some of the most disgusting anti-Semitic smears that literally date back to 1939 Germany.

I think you just made the point that it wasn't specifically anti-semitic. American Christians also dump huge amounts of money into the pro-Israel policies we have in place.

 

[DaShuckster]

Israel is a county that was founded following the largest mass slaughter of a religion in history, and in the first 20 years of being founded, was attacked 4 times by a multi-nation coalition of Arab and Muslim countries that refused to accept that a Jewish state should be allowed to exist.

……….and you wonder why American Jews may care so much about support for Israel?

Once again, I "get" it. I don't dismiss why American Jews would be concerned about comments that could be considered smears.

But does that mean that any and all concerns people may legitimately have with the level of support we provide Israel are, by definition, anti-semitic?

 

[ucfversusbcs]

I get the concern -- and when the criticism is coming from our first Muslim Congresswoman, it's certainly not going to be dismissed either.
But the hard truth is that pro-Israel lobbying IS a big deal and there are American Jews who are so unequivocally pro-Israel that one might honestly wonder what IS behind their support.
So do we ignore what we're seeing for fear of being dubbed anti-semitic? Is it even possible to engage in a 'PC discussion' regarding the level of support we provide to Israel?

How does a Muslim benefit from white supremacy? The answer. She doesnt. Thats why i know when she mentions AIPAC and benjamins, i know its different then Europeans looking to smash Jewelry stores in their neighborhood.
Please be more clear about the concern about American Jews. Youre opening yourself to neo-Nazi and Hitler apologist sentiment.
For decades, i noticed how middle eastern response to Israel was mostly covered as antagonistic, as if their pots and pans were superior to the NATO financed Israeli military. The discussion of Zionism outside the region? Hijacked by white supremacists, bringing their dreadful talk of Holocaust denial and peddling books an honest living citizen pre-Israel wouldnt even know.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Once again, I "get" it. I don't dismiss why American Jews would be concerned about comments that could be considered smears.

But does that mean that any and all concerns people may legitimately have with the level of support we provide Israel are, by definition, anti-semitic?

No and I already said that. For instance, there may be an argument to be made that a very wealthy nation like Israel no longer needs the $2.5B in military assistance annually that we give. I would counter that but still, it's a valid point to make and it's a legit critique of policy rather than a smear.

And this point can be made without talking about dual allegiances or the influence of Jewish dark money.

 

[DaShuckster]

No and I already said that. For instance, there may be an argument to be made that a very wealthy nation like Israel no longer needs the $2.5B in military assistance annually that we give. I would counter that but still, it's a valid point to make and it's a legit critique of policy rather than a smear.

It IS a valid point to make but anyone who makes it is immediately labeled anti-Israel (psst, you know, anti-semitic.) That's the fear that makes any open dialogue about what Israel needs -- or doesn't need -- from the U.S. from happening.

 

[Crazyhole]

It IS a valid point to make but anyone who makes it is immediately labeled anti-Israel (psst, you know, anti-semitic.) That's the fear that makes any open dialogue about what Israel needs -- or doesn't need -- from the U.S. from happening.

As much as I hate to say it, there is a rational difference between being anti-Semitic and anti-zionist. A pretty good argument could be made that her comments were anti-zionist.

 

[DaShuckster]

As much as I hate to say it, there is a rational difference between being anti-Semitic and anti-zionist.

True, but the same question exists. Can I be 'pro' Jewish State in the Mideast and still raise questions about the level of support we provide to Israel.

I get the impression that if anyone publicly dares to question anything about our relationship with Israel they're branded a closet anti-Semite. Given this, it's no wonder why we subsidize their military to such a HUGE extent. $3.3 billion is earmarked for military aid to Israel this year.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

True, but the same question exists. Can I be 'pro' Jewish State in the Mideast and still raise questions about the level of support we provide to Israel.

.

Meditate about the South Africa apartheid system and you'll have your answer there.

 

[UCFKnight85]

It IS a valid point to make but anyone who makes it is immediately labeled anti-Israel (psst, you know, anti-semitic.) That's the fear that makes any open dialogue about what Israel needs -- or doesn't need -- from the U.S. from happening.

What the dialogue doesn’t need is anti-Semitic smears from sitting members of Congress. And I say that knowing that members of her own party can’t out in force against her for her smears.

Once that’s established then things can progress

 

[DaShuckster]

Meditate about the South Africa apartheid system and you'll have your answer there.

Huh? I've meditated on the South Africa apartheid system that the free world blasted as one of the worst crimes against humanity in the 20th Century--but which, nevertheless, the Reagan Administration maintained a close alliance with. That's you example?

If you meant post-apartheid South Africa, the foreign aid we give to them is dwarfed by what we give to Israel.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Huh? I've meditated on the South Africa apartheid system that the free world blasted as one of the worst crimes against humanity in the 20th Century--but which, nevertheless, the Reagan Administration maintained a close alliance with. That's you example?

If you meant post-apartheid South Africa, the foreign aid we give to them is dwarfed by what we give to Israel.

That's my response to a particular sentence of yours beforehand. Try to focus on that.
My point is the white people running South Africa shouldn't effect your view of other white people (in general). Just like your opinion of jews and your opinion of Israel.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Huh? I've meditated on the South Africa apartheid system that the free world blasted as one of the worst crimes against humanity in the 20th Century--but which, nevertheless, the Reagan Administration maintained a close alliance with. That's you example?

If you meant post-apartheid South Africa, the foreign aid we give to them is dwarfed by what we give to Israel.

You know what? Nevermind I misunderstood what you said or you reworded after.

 

[DaShuckster]

You know what? Nevermind I misunderstood what you said or you reworded after.

I've been known to go back and correct my typos, but didn't "reword" that one.

My point is the white people running South Africa shouldn't effect your view of other white people (in general). Just like your opinion of jews and your opinion of Israel.

The conduct of Israel's leaders doesn't influence the way I view Jews I interact with or vise versa. The issue is that because Israel is a Jewish State, any reservation/concern/question that U.S. lawmakers might have about our relationship with the country gets morphed into a "Hmmm...so you don't support Israel, huh?"

Granted, Omar's background magnified her comments and created a major panic attack within the Democrat Party. But the underlying issue remains: How can anyone ask legitimate questions about Israel in this kind of environment without being labeled anti-Semitic?

 

[ucfversusbcs]

The conduct of Israel's leaders doesn't influence the way I view Jews I interact with or vise versa. The issue is that because Israel is a Jewish State, any reservation/concern/question that U.S. lawmakers might have about our relationship with the country gets morphed into a "Hmmm...so you don't support Israel, huh?"

Granted, Omar's background magnified her comments and created a major panic attack within the Democrat Party.

Yeah hence the disregard. Like i said, after i re-reading i realized i wasnt answering what you wrote at all.
Or you re-worded it last minute.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

The issue is that because Israel is a Jewish State, any reservation/concern/question that U.S. lawmakers might have about our relationship with the country gets morphed into a "Hmmm...so you don't support Israel, huh?"
. But the underlying issue remains: How can anyone ask legitimate questions about Israel in this kind of environment without being labeled anti-Semitic?

The only comparison i came come up with is Revenge of the Sith, when Annakin turns into Darth Vader and his wife cant follow him down that path.

 

[Crazyhole]

The only comparison i came come up with is Revenge of the Sith, when Annakin turns into Darth Vader and his wife cant follow him down that path.

Oh criminy. Always with the Star Wars analogies. No wonder your wife still calls for me to come over while you are at bingo and the early bird special at Denny's.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Oh criminy. Always with the Star Wars analogies. No wonder your wife still calls for me to come over while you are at bingo and the early bird special at Denny's.

How many four loko's you're at now?

 

[DaShuckster]

Oh criminy. Always with the Star Wars analogies. No wonder your wife still calls for me to come over while you are at bingo and the early bird special at Denny's.

Sorry ucfversusbcs. This one did cause me to crack a smile.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Sorry ucfversusbcs. This one did cause me to crack a smile.

Eh he's too busy breaking down or on this board doing the same.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

@Crazyhole and @DaShuckster besides so what if I like Star Wars.
And it's not Denny's...it's Steak n Ale.

 

[Crazyhole]

Eh he's too busy breaking down or on this board doing the same.

Hurtful, but I'll take it.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Hurtful, but I'll take it.

I like Star Wars damn it! Its a move for all ages...all ages!

 

[Crazyhole]

Hurtful, but I'll take it.

Actually, this is probably a good opportunity to explain that situation. I developed an adrenal disorder called cushings syndrome about a year ago. It was caused by about 8 years of stress and then was put on a steroid that made it worse. Basically, my cortisol levels were so high for so long that it fried the part of my brain that regulates adrenaline and emotional response that I eventually flipped out. Deep depression, anxiety, suicidal machinations, sleep deprivation, etc. It was a very dark time for me. So I apologize for that being something that people remember me by, it really isn't who I am. All I can say about it is that everybody goes through shit. Some dont make it out alive, but I did.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Actually, this is probably a good opportunity to explain that situation. I developed an adrenal disorder called cushings syndrome about a year ago. It was caused by about 8 years of stress and then was put on a steroid that made it worse. Basically, my cortisol levels were so high for so long that it fried the part of my brain that regulates adrenaline and emotional response that I eventually flipped out. Deep depression, anxiety, suicidal machinations, sleep deprivation, etc. It was a very dark time for me. So I apologize for that being something that people remember me by, it really isn't who I am. All I can say about it is that everybody goes through shit. Some dont make it out alive, but I did.

and i watch Star Wars

I had a feeling i'd get this reaction, so i did my best to minimize or generalize the response to make it look like regular board material.

 

[DaShuckster]

I like Star Wars damn it! Its a move for all ages...all ages!

I once did too. The Last Jedi sucked.

 

[Crazyhole]

and i watch Star Wars

Rogue One is the only Star Wars film that was a good movie. Empire is overrated; the only reason anyone thinks it was good was because of the shock value at the end. Episode 4 was fun because it left us hanging, but when literally every other episode leaves you hanging because of poor character development and terrible writing it just makes the whole thing seem like a joke. I still watch them, but they really arent good movies.

 

[Crazyhole]

I once did too. The Last Jedi sucked.

You only feel that way because when you watched it at the rest home your wheelchair brakes came loose and you rammed into the back of Mabel's chair.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Rogue One is the only Star Wars film that was a good movie. Empire is overrated; the only reason anyone thinks it was good was because of the shock value at the end. Episode 4 was fun because it left us hanging, but when literally every other episode leaves you hanging because of poor character development and terrible writing it just makes the whole thing seem like a joke. I still watch them, but they really arent good movies.

I was always thought they'd start Annie on hookers and coke.

 

[Crazyhole]

I was always thought they'd start Annie on hookers and coke.

Nah, he was addicted to death sticks.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Nah, he was addicted to death sticks.

Lame. Annie shouldve used the force to convince Padme into threesomes.

 

[Crazyhole]

Lame. Annie shouldve used the force to convince Padme into threesomes.

I'm somewhat bothered by the fact that you refer to him as "Annie" but then again you're the human equivalent of a flaming pile of dog so I'll let it slide. If Annikan were to use his force powers to have a 3some, I have to think it would include Leia and Gandalf.

 

[DaShuckster]

You only feel that way because when you watched it at the rest home your wheelchair brakes came loose and you rammed into the back of Mabel's chair.

As usual, your personal attacks are lying pieces of bullsh*t!

It was Ramona's chair, Dickwipe.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

I'm somewhat bothered by the fact that you refer to him as "Annie" but then again you're the human equivalent of a flaming pile of dog so I'll let it slide. If Annikan were to use his force powers to have a 3some, I have to think it would include Leia and Gandalf and Captain Marvel.

FIFY

 

[DaShuckster]

FIFY

Wouldn't Captain Marvel make it a foursome?

Personally, I would add the Black Widow in there somewhere.