Reparation talk in the House

[fried-chicken]

I think the basis of it probably started with an unequal criminal justice system largely regarding drug use. A black man is/was more likely to get a longer sentence than a white man for the same crime. That began the cycle of broken families. From that point on it was probably the result of perpetuating drug use and violent crime, over-sexualization, and pop culture that glorified it, but at it's core it was depression. One generation of boys who didn't have a dad around turns into 5 and the cycle just continues for many people who either feel stuck or don't know any different. I feel like African American boys are also just naturally more drawn to sports, and when they idolize the most successful black people in that arena, it makes them focus even more on that passion, which draws them away from finding other potential they have that can lead to a more likely successful career. African American girls (and all girls for that matter) who grew up without a dad put a lot of the focus on wanting to have a man in their lives, sometimes to the point of making unwise decisions in an attempt to feel secure, only to be on the wrong end of a bad deal and left to make further bad decisions that perpetuate the cycle. Also, for all of the good that came from the civil Rights movement, there were also some unintended consequences as well. The militant factions that existed in the 60s bred a feeling of animosity that became an "us vs them" mentality that doesn't go away easily. That probably worked to isolate some of those people, which isn't a healthy place to be. I'll never forget something that my grandpa said back in the mid 80s. I grew up in a town with 3 black families, all of whom had kids around my age and I was friends with all of them. The dad's in those families were the president of a bank, a production manager at an aerospace company, and a salesman. They all did well and the families were all involved in stuff. So my grandpa said "minorities do well when they are less than 5 % of the population because they learn to interact with others. When you get above that, they just stick with each other". At the time ( I was like 8 years old) I didn't think much of it. Later on I started to think that was a pretty racist thing to say. Now, I think I see that he's probably right. I can't say that I totally understand it, but my inclination is to think that the more any subset of people interacts socially with others, it creates a feeling of "we". The more they isolate themselves with other like individuals it becomes "us" and "them", and that's not a good place to be.

Poor people have a harder road to the middle class than I did. I was born already there. I didn't do anything special. If I was born poor I'd still be poor. All my mistakes in life were smoothed over by sound advice from family who had experienced success.

When you start a whole race poor you'll have some that make it to the middle class and they'll have to fight racist laws and racism. I didn't have to do shit to get here. Warren Buffett who you mentioned earlier was born rich. He wouldn't be Warren Buffett without a senator father.

The point is that we placed black people in the lowest social class and kept them there. We currently live in a world where black people just flat out get paid less than white people. They are still fighting an uphill battle.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Poor people have a harder road to the middle class than I did. I was born already there. I didn't do anything special. If I was born poor I'd still be poor. All my mistakes in life were smoothed over by sound advice from family who had experienced success.

When you start a whole race poor you'll have some that make it to the middle class and they'll have to fight racist laws and racism. I didn't have to do shit to get here. Warren Buffett who you mentioned earlier was born rich. He wouldn't be Warren Buffett without a senator father.

The point is that we placed black people in the lowest social class and kept them there. We currently live in a world where black people just flat out get paid less than white people. They are still fighting an uphill battle.

Your entire post starts with a lie and a commonly thrown around false assertion that Harvard researchers debunked in 2015:

Economists have been looking into the issue of U.S. economic mobility for a long time. But they've often been hampered by the lack of adequate data, says Gary Solon, an economics professor at Michigan State University. He calls the study released this week much more comprehensive than anything that's come before.

"The unusual thing is that this research team has gotten cooperation from the Internal Revenue Service to access tax return data, which of course are not generally available to researchers," Solon says.

The researchers, led by Raj Chetty of Harvard University, looked at low-income people born in the early 1970s, and how likely they were to advance to top income brackets. The researchers then compared their economic mobility with that of people born later.

"What we found is that mobility has remained remarkably stable," says Harvard's Nathaniel Hendren, a co-author of the study. "The chance in which kids can climb up or down the income ladder has remained pretty stable over the last 20 to 25 years."

The study "addresses a very burning question about whether the recent rise in inequality has substantially changed economic mobility," says David Autor, an economics professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "And at least in the short time window in which they're able to look, the answer is no. So that's good news."

 

[Crazyhole]

So, militant blacks are the ones responsible for making it an "us vs them" situation?

Somehow I knew that there would be an ass-hat response to a single statement in a long post. If we can't objectively look at both sides of the equation then what's the point of even talking about stuff?

 

[Crazyhole]

Poor people have a harder road to the middle class than I did. I was born already there. I didn't do anything special. If I was born poor I'd still be poor. All my mistakes in life were smoothed over by sound advice from family who had experienced success.

When you start a whole race poor you'll have some that make it to the middle class and they'll have to fight racist laws and racism. I didn't have to do shit to get here. Warren Buffett who you mentioned earlier was born rich. He wouldn't be Warren Buffett without a senator father.

The point is that we placed black people in the lowest social class and kept them there. We currently live in a world where black people just flat out get paid less than white people. They are still fighting an uphill battle.

Just curious, did Warren Buffets middle class upbringing give him the work ethic to sell Coke bottles and chewing gum at age 7, or was that a result of his dad being wealthy that he was able to make money doing so that he could invest?

 

[UCFWayne]

only white people are smart enough to succeed. black people arent smart enough to succeed on their own, they need help from white people.*

 

[NinjaKnight]

only white people are smart enough to succeed. black people arent smart enough to succeed on their own, they need help from white people.*

You stupid racist fuk. How do you continually come up with all time stupid takes? I'm honestly almost impressed at your willfully ignorance.

 

[fried-chicken]

only rich people are rich enough to succeed. Poor people arent rich enough to succeed on their own, they need help from rich people.

Literally this. Is Kim Kardashian smart? No, shes rich because she's born rich. If she were born poor she'd still be poor.

That's how it works. For every one story of class mobility in America there's 100 against. It's the outlier.

 

[fried-chicken]

It's a wealth issue and it only became a race issue when white people made sure all black people started poor and made laws to keep them there and that's where they've stayed. There is no evidence that being born smart and poor is better than being born dumb and rich.

Bootstraps don't exist. It's too easy for rich people to stay rich and it's too hard for poor people to stop being poor.

We don't even aspire to leave our classes really. We set goals to move within our class. No one here thinks they have a shot at having a 50MM net worth. You're all just trying to become upper middle class. If you accept that leaving the middle class is extremely rare why are you unwilling to accept that leaving poverty is extremely rare?

Putting an entire race of people at a massive disadvantage has had extreme consequences that blacks don't face at the same rate in Europe for example. The only way to fix it is to pull people out of poverty.

 

[Crazyhole]

It's a wealth issue and it only became a race issue when white people made sure all black people started poor and made laws to keep them there and that's where they've stayed. There is no evidence that being born smart and poor is better than being born dumb and rich.

Bootstraps don't exist. It's too easy for rich people to stay rich and it's too hard for poor people to stop being poor.

We don't even aspire to leave our classes really. We set goals to move within our class. No one here thinks they have a shot at having a 50MM net worth. You're all just trying to become upper middle class. If you accept that leaving the middle class is extremely rare why are you unwilling to accept that leaving poverty is extremely rare?

Putting an entire race of people at a massive disadvantage has had extreme consequences that blacks don't face at the same rate in Europe for example. The only way to fix it is to pull people out of poverty.

That was a great post until the very end. You can pull people out of poverty but you can't pull the mindset of poverty out of people, they have to do it themselves.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Literally this. Is Kim Kardashian smart? No, shes rich because she's born rich. If she were born poor she'd still be poor.

That's how it works. For every one story of class mobility in America there's 100 against. It's the outlier.

And how many "middle class" people do you think start off there but end up poor due to piss poor decisions? Answer: plenty. It happens every day. Yet if I believe you, this is utterly impossible since you've taken the matter of choice and decision making out of the equation. Nope, upward mobility is purely decided by what income bracket your parents are in and that's that. Nevermind the fact that there is downward mobility in this country ever single day that totally destroys this hypothesis.

When I go to get gas and I see someone who is lower income buying packs of cigarettes to smoke, I know that every study on the issue of smoking has drawn a strong correlation between smoking and poverty. So is that person not moving up economically because the meanie Man is against him and it's just impossible? Or is he not moving up economically due to the probably myriad of bad decisions being made that is making moving up way harder?

 

[UCFWayne]

i guess all those people that started tech companies were already super rich before they created them. who knew?

 

[sk8knight]

And how many "middle class" people do you think start off there but end up poor due to piss poor decisions? Answer: plenty. It happens every day. Yet if I believe you, this is utterly impossible since you've taken the matter of choice and decision making out of the equation. Nope, upward mobility is purely decided by what income bracket your parents are in and that's that. Nevermind the fact that there is downward mobility in this country ever single day that totally destroys this hypothesis.

When I go to get gas and I see someone who is lower income buying packs of cigarettes to smoke, I know that every study on the issue of smoking has drawn a strong correlation between smoking and poverty. So is that person not moving up economically because the meanie Man is against him and it's just impossible? Or is he not moving up economically due to the probably myriad of bad decisions being made that is making moving up way harder?

Neal Boortz used to say the poor are poor largely because they keep doing things that make them poor and the rich are rich because they keep doing things that make them rich. He also put forth that you could take all of the money today and distribute it evenly to everyone and it wouldn't take long for the money to redistribute back to where it is now.

That's, of course, oversimplifying it. If you grow up in an area where the people around you are all making bad choices, where there are multiple temptations, and where there is cultural pressure away from good behaviors, then it is more likely that you will make bad decisions. Conversely, if the people around you are making good decisions, and there aren't a lot of bad temptations in the neighborhood, it's much easier to make good decisions. There is definitely merit there but I wonder if this particular factor may be more of a class issue rather than a race issue. There are white ghettos where people exhibit much of the same behavior as black ghettos. Likewise, people of all races living in middle class areas with middle class ideals don't exhibit the same behaviors as those in ghettos.

Chicago tried a mixed income experiment on this very theory awhile back. They razed some projects and replaced them with $600k+ townhomes. In half of the townhomes, they put low income families. The other half paid full value. The results showed that the low income residents did better than the people who were displaced and ended up in low income neighborhoods. There was a downside, though, that there still was a crime element in those neighborhoods that didn't exist in the non-mixed higher income neighborhoods. The property values dropped for a number of reasons (the crash was one of them). It will be interesting to see what happens after 2 or 3 generations, but the original makeup has changed a bit because of the value decrease and the people who bailed on the experiment early.

 

[chemmie]

These people are in their late-40s and 50s now.
Some of these are the people who should have just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. The others want to "Make America Great Again."

News flash: it takes a little more than 50 years, where discrimination and racism are still prevalent, to fix major social wounds caused by 450 years of slavery and another 100 years of legal racism.

 

[UCFKnight85]

All of our teachers, cops, and judges are raging racist KKK members!!!

Thanks @chemmie for yet another valid contribution that was in no way ignorantly vague or just dumb.

 

[chemmie]

All of our teachers, cops, and judges are raging racist KKK members!!!

Thanks @chemmie for yet another valid contribution that was in no way ignorantly vague or just dumb.

Instead of just saying "damn, that's pretty screwed up," you make the conscious decision to get butthurt, angry, and defensive, and make a preposterous appeal to absurdity like you did.

Then you wonder why people call you a racist?

Think, Broski.
I know it is very difficult for you, but you need to learn to control your emotions and reactionary outbursts. Those impulsive responses tell people a lot about you.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Instead of just saying "damn, that's pretty screwed up," you make the conscious decision to get butthurt, angry, and defensive, and make a preposterous appeal to absurdity like you did.

Then you wonder why people call you a racist?

Think, Broski.
I know it is very difficult for you, but you need to learn to control your emotions and reactionary outbursts. Those impulsive responses tell people a lot about you.

lol the only person who calls me a racist is you, mostly because you're severely insecure that you are the actual racist, and that me and others personally watched your hurl around racist insults and racist derogatory comments at a person you thought was Hispanic.

No one's angry here, just laughing at you. You project your insecurities more than anyone I've ever seen.

 

[UCFWayne]

lol the only person who calls me a racist is you, mostly because you're severely insecure that you are the actual racist, and that me and others personally watched your hurl around racist insults and racist derogatory comments at a person you thought was Hispanic.

No one's angry here, just laughing at you. You project your insecurities more than anyone I've ever seen.

chemmie doesnt think black people are smart enough to get themselves out of economic problems. but you are the racists one.

 

[chemmie]

lol the only person who calls me a racist is you, mostly because you're severely insecure that you are the actual racist, and that me and others personally watched your hurl around racist insults and racist derogatory comments at a person you thought was Hispanic.

No one's angry here, just laughing at you. You project your insecurities more than anyone I've ever seen.

So, now you were there? Your story has changed 20 times and now you claim to actually be there 12 years ago?
...and you wonder why nobody takes you seriously. Even the people who were actually there don't remember anything, but you weren't there, claim you were there, and know what happened. LOL.

But, don't get off topic. We're talking about your consistent reactionary outbursts to racial stories that show your racist tendencies. You'd rather get butthurt and angry for the poor white folks than even acknowledge that racism has ever been an issue. We know how you roll, Broski. We've seen it all before.

 

[chemmie]

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Instead of just saying "damn, that's pretty screwed up," you make the conscious decision to get butthurt, angry, and defensive, and make a preposterous appeal to absurdity like you did.

Then you wonder why people call you a racist?

Think, Broski.
I know it is very difficult for you, but you need to learn to control your emotions and reactionary outbursts. Those impulsive responses tell people a lot about you.

Right wing white posters trying to demonize those that call out racism. Not surprised.

 

[chemmie]

Right wing white posters trying to demonize those that call out racism. Not surprised.

It really is hard to believe that these are their impulsive reactions. Instead of anything thoughtful or empathetic, their impulse is anger, sarcasm, and absurdity. It really does show others a lot.