So if Trump pardons himself
- Thread starter Crazyhole
- Start date
Trump's issues when he leaves office are far greater at the state level, not federal. He can (I guess--no one has ever done this) get pardoned by himself or quit on 19 January and have Pence do it, but the state of NY, for one, is waiting in the wings to pounce the second he's done and he can't do a damn thing about it. I think he knows that.
Pardon won’t hold up. The framers in many cases alluded to this fact.
Article 1 Section 3 Clause 7 of the constitution points to the bounds of impeachment being removal from office, however once removed from office, the party “shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law”.
If a President could pardon himself he would be above the law for any illegal conduct that took place while in the office as a sitting president cannot be indicted. This is not what the founding fathers wanted.
Article 1 Section 3 Clause 7 of the constitution points to the bounds of impeachment being removal from office, however once removed from office, the party “shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law”.
If a President could pardon himself he would be above the law for any illegal conduct that took place while in the office as a sitting president cannot be indicted. This is not what the founding fathers wanted.
If it's federal, he's clear. But he has numerous problems at the state level where he's not going to pardon/get pardoned from. And the real problem with this stuff is that his re-election would have provided a statue of limitations on some of them.
He would be indicted and tried in federal court and he would have to appeal to the Supreme Court to uphold the pardon and they would then set the precedent.
And this is why a self-pardon would be a really bad idea.
If I'm the AG, I respect the fact that Biden isn't interested in spending his presidency with Trump headlining the news, which is what constant federal investigations / indictments /trials would lead to.
But, if Trump self-pardons, then not moving forward with anything sort of establishes the idea that the pardon was legitimate. At that point, I want to indict him on the dumbest charge I can JUST to challenge the pardon and establish precedent that it's worthless.
IMO, a pardon would eliminate any goodwill from the next Admin to give you a pass.
Not to mention it all but admits that crimes were committed. It will be hard to stop investigations when you admit that you did things you feel you needed a pardon for.
Nah, he ran for and acquired the Presidency. Best legal protection ever.
I think what you're referring to is a result of the Burdick case, which is really interesting. Burdick was pardoned by Woodrow Wilson as a way to force him to testify as to the source of a leak. Burdick refused to "accept" the pardon, insisting instead on retaining his 5th Amendment right. The court said that because accepting a pardon implies a confession, one always has a right not to accept.
To use the pardon, the recipient of the pardon must present it in court, effectively accepting the pardon as it applies to that case. At which point, you would have surrendered your 5th Amendment rights. So Trump and crew don't admit to anything by getting pardons. But if they want to use those pardons in defense of themselves in court, then they can be compelled to testify under threat of perjury.
So if you assumed there was a criminal conspiracy, it might be a bad idea to pardon anyone involved as that could force them to testify where they otherwise could plead the 5th.
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