St. Pete wants MLS Franchise

[Poolside Knight]

I guess Tampa Bay still hasn't learned that over saturating a market is not a good thing. They can't even consistently support 3 Pro Franchises

http://www.tampabay.com/news/growth...tter-fit-for-st-petersburg-waterfront/2308396

 

[fabknight]

But soccer is the most popular sport in the world.

 

[UCFWayne]

They have an owner, they have a stadium ready to upgrade, and they have the market. They will get a MLS expansion franchise. The question is which one do they get. With Miami in question that leaves spot 24 open. Sacramento is all but ready to join. They will likely be in spot 25-28.

I hope it happens. A heated rivalry with Orlando vs Tampa would be just as good as the Seattle vs Portland one.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I guess Tampa Bay still hasn't learned that over saturating a market is not a good thing. They can't even consistently support 3 Pro Franchises

http://www.tampabay.com/news/growth...tter-fit-for-st-petersburg-waterfront/2308396

What a baseless claim about Tampa. The Lightning just reached their 98th straight sellout, the Rays are gaining huge TV ratings, and the Bucs are supported about as well as any NFL franchise would be coming off of years and years of sucking. The support picked up big time this year.

It's clear the Rays need to get over to Tampa but that's a location issue not a "city issue". People are watching on TV they just aren't tracking down to St Pete.

I do question the Rowdies trying to put MLS in the existing location. It's fine for getting a few thousand people as they do now but I don't see them ever drawing big. Soccer just isn't that big and people go downtown to eat and drink.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

The Rowdies are averaging 6000 a home game and are a minor league team. That's pretty damn good considering the Rays get about double that and they are a major league team. They'd get a good bump moving up to MLS. I question the St Pete stadium though, just an awful isolated location for sports teams.

 

[Poolside Knight]

What a baseless claim about Tampa. The Lightning just reached their 98th straight sellout, the Rays are gaining huge TV ratings, and the Bucs are supported about as well as any NFL franchise would be coming off of years and years of sucking. The support picked up big time this year.

It's clear the Rays need to get over to Tampa but that's a location issue not a "city issue". People are watching on TV they just aren't tracking down to St Pete.

I do question the Rowdies trying to put MLS in the existing location. It's fine for getting a few thousand people as they do now but I don't see them ever drawing big. Soccer just isn't that big and people go downtown to eat and drink.

it's not baseless. The Lightning do well but the Bucs & Rays have been ranked near the bottom in attendance most years. I have the same opinion about the Orlando and Miami markets. They don't need 3-4 Pro Franchises like North East markets.

 

[drays21]

Didn't Tampa have an MLS team when they had the Mutiny?
I don't know, but if that was a failure what would make the Rowdies anymore enticing?
Don't get me wrong, I live in Tampa and would be all for it but seems like they already had a crack at it.

 

[UCFWayne]

I do question the Rowdies trying to put MLS in the existing location. It's fine for getting a few thousand people as they do now but I don't see them ever drawing big. Soccer just isn't that big and people go downtown to eat and drink.

I question the location as well. Obviously it would probably be best to have their MLS team play somewhere in/around down town Tampa. They could keep their USL affiliate team at their current location.

It could possibly work since most MLS games are on Fri/Sat/Sun afternoons or nights. Only a couple Wednesday games a year. I think it would be easier drive on the weekends obviously. That stadium location is beautiful. Cant get much better than that.

Didn't Tampa have an MLS team when they had the Mutiny?
I don't know, but if that was a failure what would make the Rowdies anymore enticing?
Don't get me wrong, I live in Tampa and would be all for it but seems like they already had a crack at it.

Tampa used to have the Mutiny and yes they failed miserably. MLS has since retracted and learned some things. They have smaller venues more suited to their attendance levels. It sucks all the fan energy out of a game when you have 20k in a 65k NFL stadium. But when you have 20k in a 20k soccer specific stadium the atmosphere is great and rivals any sporting event youve been too.

On a plus side, the owner has the money and the land to do this all. He likely wont be asking the city government for a handout which is a huge plus. Youd also have a massive rivalry with OCSC from day one. That would help drive up better local support.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I question the location as well. Obviously it would probably be best to have their MLS team play somewhere in/around down town Tampa. They could keep their USL affiliate team at their current location.

It could possibly work since most MLS games are on Fri/Sat/Sun afternoons or nights. Only a couple Wednesday games a year. I think it would be easier drive on the weekends obviously. That stadium location is beautiful. Cant get much better than that.


Tampa used to have the Mutiny and yes they failed miserably. MLS has since retracted and learned some things. They have smaller venues more suited to their attendance levels. It sucks all the fan energy out of a game when you have 20k in a 65k NFL stadium. But when you have 20k in a 20k soccer specific stadium the atmosphere is great and rivals any sporting event youve been too.

On a plus side, the owner has the money and the land to do this all. He likely wont be asking the city government for a handout which is a huge plus. Youd also have a massive rivalry with OCSC from day one. That would help drive up better local support.

Land near downtown Tampa is extremely limited, hence the Rays problem. If there was land for a stadium, the Rays would secure it, not the Rowdies.

 

[UCFWayne]

http://www.rowdiessoccer.com/stadiumplan

It would certainly be a beautiful stadium. I personally dont think the view from the stands would be all that good. Most people would be in a bad location. I would personally tear down the original baseball stands on the north side and create a 3 sided stadium with on side completely open to the water. But thats just me. Rowdies can spend their money however they want.

 

[UCFWayne]

Land near downtown Tampa is extremely limited, hence the Rays problem. If there was land for a stadium, the Rays would secure it, not the Rowdies.

As it is with most cities. Wasnt their some old rail yard that hasnt been used in years? Probably too small for a MLB stadium, but possibly big enough for a MLS stadium.

 

[Knight_Magic]

St. Pete is interesting but I just don't see it happening.. I think when it's all said and done, you will have 28-32 teams in the MLS so it certainty is a race for the final sports.

You also have cities like Charlotte, Sacramento, Phoenix, St. Louis, and others in ramp up mode that want to make the move.

 

[Knight_Light]

http://www.rowdiessoccer.com/stadiumplan

It would certainly be a beautiful stadium. I personally dont think the view from the stands would be all that good. Most people would be in a bad location. I would personally tear down the original baseball stands on the north side and create a 3 sided stadium with on side completely open to the water. But thats just me. Rowdies can spend their money however they want.

You have to maximize sideline seating...can't have 2/3 of the seating being behind both goals.

Right now...there are so few sideline seats at Al Lang Stadium (or whatever it is called today) as its still the main baseball stands (built around home plate...or right corner of soccer field), where the best seats in those stands don't even reach mid-field. (There are temporary small bleachers on the other side).

Maybe the owners look at expanding usf's soccer stadium but yes, downtown Tampa area would be best...but not much available land to do so.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Right now there are make shift bleachers on the far sideline at Al Lang for Rowdy games. The issue is you can't build permanent sideline seating on that side since there's a road right there. This design is the best they could do given how constrained the space is in that spot downtown.

Also parking would royally suck if they actually did draw 20K to a game. That's smack dab in the middle of the Dali, Mahaffey, beach drive, the marina, and USFSP.

 

[UCFWayne]

St. Pete is interesting but I just don't see it happening.. I think when it's all said and done, you will have 28-32 teams in the MLS so it certainty is a race for the final sports.

You also have cities like Charlotte, Sacramento, Phoenix, St. Louis, and others in ramp up mode that want to make the move.

They arent stopping at 28 teams. They are following the NFL model and will go to 32 teams.

• Miami is in limbo right now for the 24th spot, but will be given more time to make it work. They might let another team in its place, but they still have a spot.
• Sacramento is ready to go right now and is a lock for the 25th spot.
• Charlotte/Raleigh fills a hole in the South East and will likely get a team. There are 2 competing ownership groups trying to get a team and stadium in place.
• Phoenix is a great market, the problem is the heat and at this time no ownership group.
• St Louis is a prime target of MLS. They have a big ownership group in place and are looking to lock up a deal for a stadium. However, I think they were relying on too much state/city money for it and its in jeopardy right now.
• Detroit is another prime target with some big owners involved. They are still working on getting a stadium deal in place.
• Cincinnati is also jumping up the list. Theyve blown away all previous USL/NASL attendance records. They also have a big time owner involved. They will get a team.
• San Antonio has the NBA Spur's owners involved. I have a feeling they will get a team at some point.
• Nashville rumors are out there. Apparently they have a big ownership group coming together and creating a plan.
  
• San Diego is in the mix if they lose their NFL franchise.

Tampa/St Pete sit in a great position for an expansion franchise. They have an owner, great market, and he has a plan for a stadium he can finance himself.

 

[MACHater02]

If you build it, they will come.

 

[bqknight]

The only way I see this getting done is if Miami falls apart...which I think it will. Nothing concrete or positive has come out from there.

Tampa did just hire Lashbrook as a consultant for them. He was the one who helped OCSC get into the MLS and is pretty much the best you can get when it comes to MLS Execs.

They seem serious about it but there are about 9 other teams that are super serious as well. St. Louis will get one if they get their stadium situation sorted. Sacramento likely will. Cincinnati seems to be skyrocketing right now. Wouldn't be surprised to see a NC team get it too maybe.

They said they will announce the next two additional teams the second half of 2017.

 

[Knight_Light]

MLS talent is already diluted (only a few major stars in the league to begin with), so adding more roster spots will not help.

 

[bqknight]

MLS talent is already diluted (only a few major stars in the league to begin with), so adding more roster spots will not help.

You know nothing about the league. Thanks for you always enlightening input on things.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

MLS talent is already diluted (only a few major stars in the league to begin with), so adding more roster spots will not help.

Dumb.

 

[UCFWayne]

The only way I see this getting done is if Miami falls apart...which I think it will. Nothing concrete or positive has come out from there.

Tampa did just hire Lashbrook as a consultant for them. He was the one who helped OCSC get into the MLS and is pretty much the best you can get when it comes to MLS Execs.

They seem serious about it but there are about 9 other teams that are super serious as well. St. Louis will get one if they get their stadium situation sorted. Sacramento likely will. Cincinnati seems to be skyrocketing right now. Wouldn't be surprised to see a NC team get it too maybe.

They said they will announce the next two additional teams the second half of 2017.

I already posted the other cities/groups that are interested in starting MLS clubs. I believe that Miami has no bearing on Tampa at all. Tampa is a major media market and is actually larger than Miami. They have an owner that could pay the expansion fee right now. He has been running a successful D2 soccer club for years. He also already owns a stadium that he can privately finance to become an MLS stadium. Almost all the other cities will require some level of city/state money to build a stadium.

 

[UCFKnight85]

You know nothing about the league. Thanks for you always enlightening input on things.

How is he wrong though? I watch European leagues often since I'm in Europe often; the talent difference between their leagues and the MLS is mind boggling. It's hard to watch MLS after having seen Euro games, simply because it feels like watching a minor league game with guys who can't hack it in Europe. It's a bit like watching the NFL Playoffs and then watching a pre season CFL game.

If the star power is limited, it would stand to reason that adding more teams will only bring in more guys that are subpar, and only playing at the MLS level because they need bodies.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Why are soccer haters so threatened all the time by the podunk minor league MLS? If they expand and fail, like you know they will, you can celebrate.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Why are soccer haters so threatened all the time by the podunk minor league MLS? If they expand and fail, like you know they will, you can celebrate.

Why can't soccer fans answer simple, basic questions without getting defensive?

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

What's the question? All you did was shit on the MLS. Yes, everyone knows the MLS isn't EPL or Bundesliga. The star power is limited in every sport, the only way to grow it is to continue expansion into new markets and develop the talent in those locations. OCSC in it's second year has three big names in Latin, Kaka and Shea, the star power isn't at dire as you try to make it seem.

 

[UCFKnight85]

What's the question? All you did was shit on the MLS. Yes, everyone knows the MLS isn't EPL or Bundesliga. The star power is limited in every sport, the only way to grow it is to continue expansion into new markets and develop the talent in those locations. OCSC in it's second year has three big names in Latin, Kaka and Shea, the star power isn't at dire as you try to make it seem.

Umm you completely ignored the question then.

The question was "why expand when the current # of teams is supporting a lower talent base to begin with"? You somewhat answered it above but your answer doesn't make sense. What does a new MLS market have to do with "developing talent in those locations"? Are you suggesting that the mere presence of an MLS team will sprout future stars at the local level?

 

[Poolside Knight]

I saw about a week ago that Christiano Ronaldo turned down a 100M offer to play in China. What MLS owner is rich enough to throw him a 2 year offer like that? He'd think longer about accepting since he likes spending time in the U.S.

 

[UCFWayne]

How is he wrong though? I watch European leagues often since I'm in Europe often; the talent difference between their leagues and the MLS is mind boggling. It's hard to watch MLS after having seen Euro games, simply because it feels like watching a minor league game with guys who can't hack it in Europe. It's a bit like watching the NFL Playoffs and then watching a pre season CFL game.

If the star power is limited, it would stand to reason that adding more teams will only bring in more guys that are subpar, and only playing at the MLS level because they need bodies.

I watch alot of EPL and sometimes Bundesliga on Sat/Sun mornings because the kids are up and its something to do. You are 100% right the talent difference is massive.

I know MLS isnt even the best league this side of the world. Im ok with it because its live/local. I think that as the league continues to grow and more and more stars will be attracted to the league. That in turn will help drive up attendance/ratings. That will boost MLS's wages and attract more and develop more "stars." Im ok with watching MLS grow over time. I am hopeful that one day MLS is considered the best league this side of the world.

With too much expansion, it will certainly dilute the American talent pool for a short period of time. However, with more and more MLS teams investing in academies, that should offset that down the road. Temporarily, they could just add an additional international spot to each team. The player pool for international soccer players is virtually unlimited.

 

[UCFWayne]

I saw about a week ago that Christiano Ronaldo turned down a 100M offer to play China. What MLS owner is rich enough to throw him a 2 year offer like that? He'd think longer about accepting since he likes spending time in the U.S.

The Chinese Super League is splashing a ton of cash. However, they have some very strict international player rules. That limits the number of guys going to the league. Of course, there are only 16 teams and that will change over time. The current president has made soccer one of his pet projects. Will that type of spending continue when hes gone?

 

[Poolside Knight]

The Chinese Super League is splashing a ton of cash. However, they have some very strict international player rules. That limits the number of guys going to the league. Of course, there are only 16 teams and that will change over time. The current president has made soccer one of his pet projects. Will that type of spending continue when hes gone?

yeah I'm sure they have unlimited cash but they still have to convince Europeans on wanting to live in China. That's where MLS could eventually gain an advantage vs leagues outside of Western Europe. The top European League players love spending time in California, Florida, and New York.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Umm you completely ignored the question then.

The question was "why expand when the current # of teams is supporting a lower talent base to begin with"? You somewhat answered it above but your answer doesn't make sense. What does a new MLS market have to do with "developing talent in those locations"? Are you suggesting that the mere presence of an MLS team will sprout future stars at the local level?

Yes it will. MLS teams bring multiple minor league teams on different levels, women's teams, soccer academies etc. Teams develop their own talent starting in youth leagues. More exposure to new markets will create a larger talent pool.