The awareness and promotion of STEM education is one of the more important initiatives in education. Now there are groups adding arts to the equation. Is adding arts actually a good thing or a case of inclusive destruction of a good thing?
STEM to STEAM
- Thread starter sk8knight
- Start date
I hadn't heard of this so before reacting I figured I'd read what these STEAM folks are advocating. Fuk STEM and STEAM.. It should be STEAMP. Science, Tech, Eng, Arts, Math, Psychedelics. We'd absolutely dominate.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5031895
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5031895
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Lmao more faux outrage invented by fox news. Good Lord you people will believe anything.
But the original push was to encourage people into STEM classes from the arts paths. Isn’t adding arts just negating that push?
That's absolutely disingenuous. And there is nothing wrong with offering a well-rounded education that includes and shows the importance of the arts. We aren't talking about turning everyone into Mozart or Monet, for Christ's sake.
There’s nothing wrong, that’s true. But the people pursuing STEM paths was decreasing and there was a lack of gender diversity as well. The initiative isn’t a judgement on arts but an acknowledgement of future needs for this country. We can’t count on the rest of the world for our STEM professionals.
And that in and of itself is fine. I don't argue that. Your initial statement was to encourage people into stem from the arts. The purpose of STEM is as you stated in your most recent post--not as some assault on the arts. My inclusion of the arts in the equation isn't a matter of luring people into the discipline. It's more about a well-rounded education.
Understand and they need some rounding. But they need a strong emphasis on STEM and my initial question still stands. Is making them equal helping or hurting the STEM cause?
I don't think it does. It's not like there still can't still be a strong emphasis on STEM. I think a lot of students appreciate a diverse education (some don't, sure) but it would probably amaze you the number of students in the sciences and other STEM areas who take a minor in music or continue to play their instrument in our ensembles at UCF. It's very important to them. Furthermore, many students do Capstone or Honors in the Major by crossing disciplines in their field and combining it with areas in the arts. Believe me, I either chair or sit on MANY of these committees every year. It has been an extremely important resume builder for those who want to go to grad school. A diverse approach as many of these students have taken has led to countless of them that I have witnessed firsthand to receive graduate assistantships and teaching fellowships at major universities around the country.
So, no, I don't think it hurts the STEM cause. If anything, in my experience, it has helped greatly.
So I'll go back to the link in my initial post. If the hang-up is the acronym then we're missing the point. Is the push actually to make the arts "equal" or is just a component to spur innovation and creative thinking? If the latter I can't possibly see anything wrong with it.
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I’m often asked why science, technology, engineering and math are the only words used to create the acronym, and when Project Lead The Way (PLTW), the STEM organization I am proud to lead, will change STEM to STEAM, STREAM or STEMM — incorporating art, reading or music into the acronym. If that is the debate, we are clearly missing the point. It’s not about adding to the acronym, but instead adding to the relevancy of learning. It’s about showing students how technical concepts relate to real-world situations and providing them with hands-on projects and problems that help them apply concepts in a new context. It’s about nurturing students’ curiosity and helping them develop creativity, problem solving and critical thinking skills. STEM isn’t simply the subjects in the acronym. It’s an engaging and exciting way of teaching and learning.
Look no further than the materials and technology artists use: computers and graphics, paint, a canvas. Computer scientists develop the graphics technology, chemists work to ensure the right chemical composition to create vibrant colors, and engineers design a stronger canvas that absorbs the right amount of paint. Furthermore, the same creativity that inspires beautiful works of art is the same creativity that has led to some of the world’s highest-performing, usable and visually appealing inventions. For instance, the Corvette Stingray, the 2014 North American Car of the Year, is an engineering marvel and one of the top-performing automobiles on the market. But, it’s also aesthetically appealing. The same could be said for your new light-weight running shoes, your single-serving coffee maker, or the acoustically designed facilities for your community’s symphony orchestra. These are all examples of engineering and the arts working together, and they all resulted from the same design process engineers use to build the world’s most advanced fighter jets, develop new energy solutions, and create targeted therapies for chronic diseases.
STEM can be found in virtually every discipline and in every product. STEM is not exclusive to the subjects of science, engineering, technology or math. We must continue engaging students in the STEM disciplines and encouraging them to combine technical knowledge and skills with the creativity that leads to innovative ideas — ideas that give the arts new technologies, music new instruments, farmers new machines, and our businesses a competitive advantage. Unless we continue building the STEM pipeline, each profession suffers.
Project Lead The Way is the nation’s leading provider of STEM education programs for students in elementary, middle, and high school. Through world-class curriculum, high-quality teacher professional development, and a network of business and educational leaders, PLTW is preparing students for the global economy.
https://www.pltw.org/our-programs
Reading through the pathways you can see the artistic influences. On its face it seems like a great idea. I guess it depends on which organization you're looking at as far as what the Art component actually looks like.
==============================
I’m often asked why science, technology, engineering and math are the only words used to create the acronym, and when Project Lead The Way (PLTW), the STEM organization I am proud to lead, will change STEM to STEAM, STREAM or STEMM — incorporating art, reading or music into the acronym. If that is the debate, we are clearly missing the point. It’s not about adding to the acronym, but instead adding to the relevancy of learning. It’s about showing students how technical concepts relate to real-world situations and providing them with hands-on projects and problems that help them apply concepts in a new context. It’s about nurturing students’ curiosity and helping them develop creativity, problem solving and critical thinking skills. STEM isn’t simply the subjects in the acronym. It’s an engaging and exciting way of teaching and learning.
Look no further than the materials and technology artists use: computers and graphics, paint, a canvas. Computer scientists develop the graphics technology, chemists work to ensure the right chemical composition to create vibrant colors, and engineers design a stronger canvas that absorbs the right amount of paint. Furthermore, the same creativity that inspires beautiful works of art is the same creativity that has led to some of the world’s highest-performing, usable and visually appealing inventions. For instance, the Corvette Stingray, the 2014 North American Car of the Year, is an engineering marvel and one of the top-performing automobiles on the market. But, it’s also aesthetically appealing. The same could be said for your new light-weight running shoes, your single-serving coffee maker, or the acoustically designed facilities for your community’s symphony orchestra. These are all examples of engineering and the arts working together, and they all resulted from the same design process engineers use to build the world’s most advanced fighter jets, develop new energy solutions, and create targeted therapies for chronic diseases.
STEM can be found in virtually every discipline and in every product. STEM is not exclusive to the subjects of science, engineering, technology or math. We must continue engaging students in the STEM disciplines and encouraging them to combine technical knowledge and skills with the creativity that leads to innovative ideas — ideas that give the arts new technologies, music new instruments, farmers new machines, and our businesses a competitive advantage. Unless we continue building the STEM pipeline, each profession suffers.
Project Lead The Way is the nation’s leading provider of STEM education programs for students in elementary, middle, and high school. Through world-class curriculum, high-quality teacher professional development, and a network of business and educational leaders, PLTW is preparing students for the global economy.
https://www.pltw.org/our-programs
Reading through the pathways you can see the artistic influences. On its face it seems like a great idea. I guess it depends on which organization you're looking at as far as what the Art component actually looks like.
Also great points. I think I’m mostly in agreement with your view on this topic.
i have nothing against the arts. in fact i wish the arts were more present in our schools. i particularly think more musical education early on would prove beneficial in the long run. i think there have been many studies that show learning how to play music enhances grades overall.
that said, i think they need to focus on STEM more in high school and push more students in that direction.
that said, i think they need to focus on STEM more in high school and push more students in that direction.
Ahhh yes, the "inclusion" and "participation" non-sense. Seriously... Why can't Arts be separate? Why does someone in the Arts have to be considered with STEM? Why do they have to be included?
It's like when I was in my Environmental Engineering classes during my core, we got a few Liberal Arts majors in the room. The instructor reminded them that Calculus II was a prerequisite, and we didn't see them the next class.
You either have the foundations or you don't. I'm fine with Arts who do. But don't try to say you're STEM if you don't have the foundations.
So you had Liberal Arts majors in your engineering classes, where Calc 2 was a pre-req, and they bailed having feared Calc 2, even though...….you had to have passed it to be in the Engineering class in the first place?
Wut?
And yet, engineers were still behind with the 'art' of it.
The weight-balance-aero involved, right down to not just the intakes, but the discharge of the hot air of the radiator coming out of the hood that provides additional down-force.
Especially in the Z06 and ZR1 packages that were Co-designed.
Most people don't know that the hood of the Porsche 911, despite being a mid-engine, is higher than the Corvette since the 5th generation ('97+). The 911 is also bigger overall, unless one has a wide-bodied, Z-option (other than Z51 - - but the Z52/GS, Z06 or ZR1) Corvette, then it's about the same.
The 'big' 6.2L V8 OHV ('pushrod') is actually a smaller volume, flatter and lower center-of-gravity, than a 4L OHC, and even more so twin-turbo (and even (4L-TT v. 6.2L-SC).
Especially in the Z06 and ZR1 packages that were Co-designed.
Most people don't know that the hood of the Porsche 911, despite being a mid-engine, is higher than the Corvette since the 5th generation ('97+). The 911 is also bigger overall, unless one has a wide-bodied, Z-option (other than Z51 - - but the Z52/GS, Z06 or ZR1) Corvette, then it's about the same.
The 'big' 6.2L V8 OHV ('pushrod') is actually a smaller volume, flatter and lower center-of-gravity, than a 4L OHC, and even more so twin-turbo (and even (4L-TT v. 6.2L-SC).
Also engineers. The interior was designed by an engineer named 'Brian.' I talked at great length with him in 2013 April at the NCM Bash.**
**
It's funny you mentioned this, because I just got an offer, today, to visit the Bowling Green plant at the end of April - - the same plant that has been shut down and tours cut-off for 18 months or so now to be 'retooled' (yeah, what's coming next?) - - as a NCM Lifetime Member. But $500/person is a bit too much for me. Unless anyone wants to pay my way and go with me? (shameless beg) 
Most people don't know that GM took the interior to Europe in 2012, and did a 'blind test,' saying it was a new 'European supercar interior.'
8% picked the Porsche 911, said it was 'too plastic'
19% picked the Nissan GT-R, shocking people liked it more than the 911!
22% picked the Audi R8, which I like myself
51% picked the Corvette Stingray interior, not knowing it was a Corvette
The biggest shocker to most people was that most thought the 911 interior was crap, and once revealed it was the 911, they said it "made a huge difference not seeing the Porsche crest."
19% picked the Nissan GT-R, shocking people liked it more than the 911!
22% picked the Audi R8, which I like myself
51% picked the Corvette Stingray interior, not knowing it was a Corvette
The biggest shocker to most people was that most thought the 911 interior was crap, and once revealed it was the 911, they said it "made a huge difference not seeing the Porsche crest."
STEM is the Foundation of it all! Sorry, not optional.
Yes, but... No, students who do not want the Foundations do not get to be STEM. Sorry, that BS has to end.
I deal with STEM-less fools that distract and limit us every day - - everything from energy to the environment. Right now any STEM who tries to educate someone on energy and the environment is labeled a 'climate denier' because the STEM-less fools don't understand what they are saying.
That happens constantly. STEM is STEM, either you have the foundations, or you don't. Period.
Yes, but the 'arts' students must have STEM.
Art is implied.
Just like business is implied.
If people don't recognize that engineering is about business as much as applied science, just like art as much as applied science, that's their ignorance.
As I always used to joke with finance majors, "I proved the equations of your 'past/future value of money' buttons in your HP 12C calculator as part of my Engineering Management class."
I used that line on a finance major in HR that tried to prevent me from hiring a guy without a college degree. I told him it wasn't required for IT, and he kept saying it made people 'well rounded.' I then told him to stop telling me what is required for my job, and proved the point that I knew the foundations of his major better than him ... so I could HR better than him, in reverse.
He finally let me hiring the guy I wanted after that.
I used that line on a finance major in HR that tried to prevent me from hiring a guy without a college degree. I told him it wasn't required for IT, and he kept saying it made people 'well rounded.' I then told him to stop telling me what is required for my job, and proved the point that I knew the foundations of his major better than him ... so I could HR better than him, in reverse.
He finally let me hiring the guy I wanted after that.
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In the early '90s there was this whole 'chic' among Liberal Arts majors to take Environmental Engineering classes. I ran into so many who were signing up for them when I was a Freshman-Sophomore years. They literally though it was about policies and politics.
It was so bad advisors were being told to reach out to all students without majors to make them aware of pre-requisites. We had 2 in our class. I talked to one before, and mentioned the calculus pre-requisite. He was totally unaware.
The instructor reminded everyone first thing, after introducing his name. I didn't see him or a friend he was talking to again after that first class.
I went to a Neil DeGrasse Tyson event a couple years ago and he had a great take on this. His viewpoint, which I agree with, is we need both STEM and the arts to have a whole, enriched society, but that both disciplines deserve to fully funded on their own. Lumping them all together as STEAM does a disservice to both.
And yet, engineers were still behind with the 'art' of it.
Without the engineering, there's no art in an automobile.The weight-balance-aero involved, right down to not just the intakes, but the discharge of the hot air of the radiator coming out of the hood that provides additional down-force.
Especially in the Z06 and ZR1 packages that were Co-designed.
Most people don't know that the hood of the Porsche 911, despite being a mid-engine, is higher than the Corvette since the 5th generation ('97+). The 911 is also bigger overall, unless one has a wide-bodied, Z-option (other than Z51 - - but the Z52/GS, Z06 or ZR1) Corvette, then it's about the same.
The 'big' 6.2L V8 OHV ('pushrod') is actually a smaller volume, flatter and lower center-of-gravity, than a 4L OHC, and even more so twin-turbo (and even (4L-TT v. 6.2L-SC).
Also engineers. The interior was designed by an engineer named 'Brian.' I talked at great length with him in 2013 April at the NCM Bash.**
**It's funny you mentioned this, because I just got an offer, today, to visit the Bowling Green plant at the end of April - - the same plant that has been shut down and tours cut-off for 18 months or so now to be 'retooled' (yeah, what's coming next?) - - as a NCM Lifetime Member. But $500/person is a bit too much for me. Unless anyone wants to pay my way and go with me? (shameless beg)
Most people don't know that GM took the interior to Europe in 2012, and did a 'blind test,' saying it was a new 'European supercar interior.'
Without the engineering, there's no art in an automobile.8% picked the Porsche 911, said it was 'too plastic'
19% picked the Nissan GT-R, shocking people liked it more than the 911!
22% picked the Audi R8, which I like myself
51% picked the Corvette Stingray interior, not knowing it was a Corvette
The biggest shocker to most people was that most thought the 911 interior was crap, and once revealed it was the 911, they said it "made a huge difference not seeing the Porsche crest."
STEM is the Foundation of it all! Sorry, not optional.
Yes, but... No, students who do not want the Foundations do not get to be STEM. Sorry, that BS has to end.
I deal with STEM-less fools that distract and limit us every day - - everything from energy to the environment. Right now any STEM who tries to educate someone on energy and the environment is labeled a 'climate denier' because the STEM-less fools don't understand what they are saying.
That happens constantly. STEM is STEM, either you have the foundations, or you don't. Period.
Yes, but the 'arts' students must have STEM.
Art is implied.
Just like business is implied.
If people don't recognize that engineering is about business as much as applied science, just like art as much as applied science, that's their ignorance.
As I always used to joke with finance majors, "I proved the equations of your 'past/future value of money' buttons in your HP 12C calculator as part of my Engineering Management class."
I used that line on a finance major in HR that tried to prevent me from hiring a guy without a college degree. I told him it wasn't required for IT, and he kept saying it made people 'well rounded.' I then told him to stop telling me what is required for my job, and proved the point that I knew the foundations of his major better than him ... so I could HR better than him, in reverse.
He finally let me hiring the guy I wanted after that.
I feel like you're arguing with no one. The dude you keep quoting is part of a leading STEM education provider. He's in your corner. Dude is just incorporating artistic and creative STEM projects at a young age to foster creative thought. This isn't an either or FFS.
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WTF are you babbling on and on about? Absolutely nothing to do with what I typed.
Spoiler: BS is going to come back and tell you that you misunderstood him. Part of his classic deflection when he posts incoherent shit and then called out on it.
Tick tock tick tock.
tldrAnd yet, engineers were still behind with the 'art' of it.
Without the engineering, there's no art in an automobile.The weight-balance-aero involved, right down to not just the intakes, but the discharge of the hot air of the radiator coming out of the hood that provides additional down-force.
Especially in the Z06 and ZR1 packages that were Co-designed.
Most people don't know that the hood of the Porsche 911, despite being a mid-engine, is higher than the Corvette since the 5th generation ('97+). The 911 is also bigger overall, unless one has a wide-bodied, Z-option (other than Z51 - - but the Z52/GS, Z06 or ZR1) Corvette, then it's about the same.
The 'big' 6.2L V8 OHV ('pushrod') is actually a smaller volume, flatter and lower center-of-gravity, than a 4L OHC, and even more so twin-turbo (and even (4L-TT v. 6.2L-SC).
Also engineers. The interior was designed by an engineer named 'Brian.' I talked at great length with him in 2013 April at the NCM Bash.**
**It's funny you mentioned this, because I just got an offer, today, to visit the Bowling Green plant at the end of April - - the same plant that has been shut down and tours cut-off for 18 months or so now to be 'retooled' (yeah, what's coming next?) - - as a NCM Lifetime Member. But $500/person is a bit too much for me. Unless anyone wants to pay my way and go with me? (shameless beg)
Most people don't know that GM took the interior to Europe in 2012, and did a 'blind test,' saying it was a new 'European supercar interior.'
Without the engineering, there's no art in an automobile.8% picked the Porsche 911, said it was 'too plastic'
19% picked the Nissan GT-R, shocking people liked it more than the 911!
22% picked the Audi R8, which I like myself
51% picked the Corvette Stingray interior, not knowing it was a Corvette
The biggest shocker to most people was that most thought the 911 interior was crap, and once revealed it was the 911, they said it "made a huge difference not seeing the Porsche crest."
STEM is the Foundation of it all! Sorry, not optional.
Yes, but... No, students who do not want the Foundations do not get to be STEM. Sorry, that BS has to end.
I deal with STEM-less fools that distract and limit us every day - - everything from energy to the environment. Right now any STEM who tries to educate someone on energy and the environment is labeled a 'climate denier' because the STEM-less fools don't understand what they are saying.
That happens constantly. STEM is STEM, either you have the foundations, or you don't. Period.
Yes, but the 'arts' students must have STEM.
Art is implied.
Just like business is implied.
If people don't recognize that engineering is about business as much as applied science, just like art as much as applied science, that's their ignorance.
As I always used to joke with finance majors, "I proved the equations of your 'past/future value of money' buttons in your HP 12C calculator as part of my Engineering Management class."
I used that line on a finance major in HR that tried to prevent me from hiring a guy without a college degree. I told him it wasn't required for IT, and he kept saying it made people 'well rounded.' I then told him to stop telling me what is required for my job, and proved the point that I knew the foundations of his major better than him ... so I could HR better than him, in reverse.
He finally let me hiring the guy I wanted after that.
I'm not arguing with you. I'm commenting how people don't realize that the 'engineering' part is not optional. Too many people see it as 'oh, but artists can contribute.' Yes ... if they have the background.
It's a 'sensitive' subject for me because I've been through over 60 organizations on various projects, and a good 1/3rd of them failed because people didn't have the expertise required. I always left well before that point, sans one (never to be repeated).
So whenever STEAM comes up, it's literally like, "and this is literally the problem, 'inclusion' in the team ..."
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