The disenfranchised myth

[Trigeek]

I can’t remember who it was that posted about not appreciating the Trump rally and insurgents plight. The case was made we have ignored these people who are struggling and losing the ability to make a living in America (I paraphrase).

I’d suggest that is all crap and a false narrative. These insurgents traveled to Washington DC, paid for hotels, dinners, beers etc. they are not poor and struggling.
This is all about racism. I believe all of the last 4 years is a reactionary backlash to Obama being president. It drew all these underground racist out and they have exposed themselves.
This is the reality. Look at the mob that attacked the capitol. White supremacy and racism on display.

 

[DaShuckster]

This is all about racism. I believe all of the last 4 years is a reactionary backlash to Obama being president. It drew all these underground racist out and they have exposed themselves.

This is the reality. Look at the mob that attacked the capitol. White supremacy and racism on display.

I don't believe we have 72 million racists in this country but there's no question the Trump Candidacy was a backlash to Obama. No question about it.

The attack on the capitol -- and its aftermath -- is a stark, clear-cut example of how much differently we respond to the potential for violence when it involves African American protesters vs "Regular Joes" like you and me.

 

[Trigeek]

I don't believe we have 72 million racists in this country but there's no question the Trump Candidacy was a backlash to Obama. No question about it.

The attack on the capitol -- and its aftermath -- is a stark, clear-cut example of how much differently we respond to the potential for violence when it involves African American protesters vs "Regular Joes" like you and me.

I agree. I do think the mass majority are republicans regardless and vote on single issues, abortion, Guns, etc.. But the loud and proud masses are racist when you boil it down to the truth.

 

[DaShuckster]

I agree. I do think the mass majority are republicans regardless and vote on single issues, abortion, Guns, etc.. But the loud and proud masses are racist when you boil it down to the truth.

I do believe the issue of police violence against blacks is a complex and complicated issue. But that said, I do believe there is an undercurrent of racism that pervades policing in this country.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Sort of. Parties consist of coalitions, that's how you get to 74 million. Republicans call them the "grassroots" which is a term for non-elite. The Republican Party is the party of the money/corporate class. The problem is that there aren't enough of them to win elections. They need the "grassroots" (unwashed). The problem is that since Reagan, they been feeding the grassroots one corporate candidate after another. In 7 presidential elections from 1988-2012, there have only been 2 candidates on the ballot from the working class, Jack Kemp & Sarah Palin, both of those campaigns were a disaster. It's been only corporate schmuck after another. Finally in 2016, after supporting the GOP for decades they rejected all of the next in line corporatists (JEB!, Rubio, Cruz, Kasich, Carly, Christie, etc) and nominated a candidate that spoke to their anger. 2016 emboldened them (Thanks Hillary). They are here to stay.

 

[Happy Hands]

I’m not sure if you’re serious or just trolling. Isn’t this the answer that Obama gives when people don’t agree with him? Racism. It’s lazy. Especially for someone as smart as Obama. It is, however, a conversation stopper and a way to get sympathy. There are legitimate gripes with the way Obama presided over the country. He was very far to the left and that would cause people on the right to respond the way they did. Hillary was seen as an extension of the Obama presidency as well as being one of the most entrenched politicians in modern history.

Trump was a populist who was able to gain support by painting himself as a Washington outsider(which he clearly was given how every institution in government has opposed his every move. Biden and Harris are the correction to having an outsider in the white house

Did some racists like him? Yes. We’re all his supporters racis? Of course not. Most of his supporters were just people scared of the policies that Obama, and Clinton and now Biden, wanted to put in place.

Trust in government is probably at an all time low. Especially on the right. People on both the left and the right correctly feel ignored by a government that doesn’t care about them.

 

[DaShuckster]

I’m not sure if you’re serious or just trolling. Isn’t this the answer that Obama gives when people don’t agree with him? Racism. It’s lazy.

And when people like me hear responses like this one, I can't help but think, come on, YOU can't be serious!

Is racism the only thing at work? Nope, far from it. But to say it doesn't exist is incredibly naive.

Trump was a populist who was able to gain support by painting himself as a Washington outsider

And how did he kick-off his entry into the world of politics? By becoming the vocal leader of the 'birther' movement.

 

[firm_bizzle]

I’m not sure if you’re serious or just trolling. Isn’t this the answer that Obama gives when people don’t agree with him? Racism. It’s lazy. Especially for someone as smart as Obama. It is, however, a conversation stopper and a way to get sympathy. There are legitimate gripes with the way Obama presided over the country. He was very far to the left and that would cause people on the right to respond the way they did. Hillary was seen as an extension of the Obama presidency as well as being one of the most entrenched politicians in modern history.

Trump was a populist who was able to gain support by painting himself as a Washington outsider(which he clearly was given how every institution in government has opposed his every move. Biden and Harris are the correction to having an outsider in the white house

Did some racists like him? Yes. We’re all his supporters racis? Of course not. Most of his supporters were just people scared of the policies that Obama, and Clinton and now Biden, wanted to put in place.

Trust in government is probably at an all time low. Especially on the right. People on both the left and the right correctly feel ignored by a government that doesn’t care about them.

Obama has a fragile ego as well. He and Michelle have a view that the pushback against them is all racism (a lot of it is). The problem is that the people who have legitimate policy differences coddle the racists because they are on the same team.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Trump is just the modern Archie Bunker. Upset at how the neighborhood is changing. A lot people feel this way.

 

[Crazyhole]

And when people like me hear responses like this one, I can't help but think, come on, YOU can't be serious!

Is racism the only thing at work? Nope, far from it. But to say it doesn't exist is incredibly naive.
And how did he kick-off his entry into the world of politics? By becoming the vocal leader of the 'birther' movement.

I just had a tangential thought. Could Ilhan Omar be speaker of the house? I wonder how far down the line of presidential succession you have to go before not being a natural born citizen isn't a disqualifier.

 

[Happy Hands]

And when people like me hear responses like this one, I can't help but think, come on, YOU can't be serious!

Is racism the only thing at work? Nope, far from it. But to say it doesn't exist is incredibly naive.
And how did he kick-off his entry into the world of politics? By becoming the vocal leader of the 'birther' movement.

I didn’t say racism didn’t exist, it’s just not a very good answer to why people opposed his policies. I don’t think it is racist to say that sending a plane with hundred of millions of dollars to Iran is a bad idea. I don’t think it is racist to say that killing two American citizens without due process is a bad idea. I don’t think it is racist to say that Obama era regulations stifled the economy. I could go on, but I think you shuck what I’m saying. Obama uses racism to avoid defending his actions. It is cheap.

Yes, Trump is a twat and the birther movement was stupid. I’m pretty sure Trump was involved in politics for years before he ran by paying off politicians and hanging out with the Clintons on Epstein’s island. He was never that far removed from the swamp he preached against.

 

[DaShuckster]

I didn’t say racism didn’t exist, it’s just not a very good answer to why people opposed his policies.

I agree. But when an issue that DOES involve racism is raised, the knee-jerk reaction from Conservatives is to roll their eyes and say, "here we go again, we're all racists, yada, yada, yada" instead of having an open and honest discussion that involves a touchy subject.

 

[Happy Hands]

I agree. But when an issue that DOES involve racism is raised, the knee-jerk reaction from Conservatives is to roll their eyes and say, "here we go again, we're all racists, yada, yada, yada" instead of having an open and honest discussion that involves a touchy subject.

Is truth.

 

[Crazyhole]

BREAK: PBS Chief Counsel Caught on Camera Demanding ‘Re-Education Camps’, Child Confiscation, and Molotov Cocktails Thrown At Trump - The National Pulse

A new Project Veritas video reveals Michael Beller, PBS Principal Counsel, celebrating the death of Trump supporters and calling for their re-education while admitting he’d participate in violent acts if Joe Biden lost the presidency.In the 2-minute video, Beller can be seen celebrating his...

thenationalpulse.com

Thoughts?

 

[chemmie]

Trump is just the modern Archie Bunker. Upset at how the neighborhood is changing. A lot people feel this way.

THIS is the truth. People can claim they vote for him because he isn't a "Washington Insider," but the truth is they all wanted to go back to the past. They hate progress. They hate that blacks, women, Mexicans, gays, trans, Muslims, etc.etc. etc... have eaten into the power of the great white male, and the traditional hierarchy. This is why racism is so prevalent. It is the truth. Many of them are racists, because they can't get over the fact that christian, white, males, are losing their grip on power.

 

[chemmie]

Is truth.

Yes, it is. Lots of you are racists.

I think the real problem is people think being racist means you're a card-carrying white nationalist neo-nazi. No. You don't have to be burning crosses to be a racist. Racism is endemic in American society. It is here, without most people knowing. Simple comments, statements, and beliefs, are rooted in racism. People may not believe they are racist, and they may even have minorities that they are close to and love, but they often still have inherent racism they don't even recognize.

 

[Crazyhole]

Yes, it is. Lots of you are racists.

I think the real problem is people think being racist means you're a card-carrying white nationalist neo-nazi. No. You don't have to be burning crosses to be a racist. Racism is endemic in American society. It is here, without most people knowing. Simple comments, statements, and beliefs, are rooted in racism. People may not believe they are racist, and they may even have minorities that they are close to and love, but they often still have inherent racism they don't even recognize.

How convenient. You don't have to do anything or even know it, but you're a racist.

That's like saying "you've never had homosexual relations and you might not even feel like you are, but you're gay.

 

[chemmie]

How convenient. You don't have to do anything or even know it, but you're a racist.

That's like saying "you've never had homosexual relations and you might not even feel like you are, but you're gay.

Stop projecting.

 

[Happy Hands]

Yes, it is. Lots of you are racists.

I think the real problem is people think being racist means you're a card-carrying white nationalist neo-nazi. No. You don't have to be burning crosses to be a racist. Racism is endemic in American society. It is here, without most people knowing. Simple comments, statements, and beliefs, are rooted in racism. People may not believe they are racist, and they may even have minorities that they are close to and love, but they often still have inherent racism they don't even recognize.

Lots of me? I’m not a Trump supporter or a conservative. However, yes humans are tribal and therefore have a preference for their own group. It is a survival mechanism that has remained from a time when members of other tribes could be dangerous, but one’s own tribe would be a source of safety. It’s human instinct and isn’t solely inherent in just one group. Being bias toward your own group is natural, but it is also something we need to look out for in a society that depends on many differing groups living together.

I do know that progressives really believe that conservatives are all racists, that’s what the media has told them for years. Even black conservatives are viewed as self hating. It’s demeaning and ridiculous.

 

[DaShuckster]

I do know that progressives really believe that conservatives are all racists, that’s what the media has told them for years.

Of course, the notion that 'all conservatives are racists' is absurd.

As a former card-carrying Republican, I would never have joined the party if that were the case. But you know what? It would certainly help destroy that false narrative if conservatives would condemn blatant race-baiting and dog whistles when they occur. But at best, they hold their noses and ignore it because it means votes.

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

I agree. I do think the mass majority are republicans regardless and vote on single issues, abortion, Guns, etc.. But the loud and proud masses are racist when you boil it down to the truth.

Agree but how do you explain the way they have been brainwashed by right wing media and the orange idiot himself?
They've been brainwashed to hate, not think for themselves, and discriminate.

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

THIS is the truth. People can claim they vote for him because he isn't a "Washington Insider," but the truth is they all wanted to go back to the past. They hate progress. They hate that blacks, women, Mexicans, gays, trans, Muslims, etc.etc. etc... have eaten into the power of the great white male, and the traditional hierarchy. This is why racism is so prevalent. It is the truth. Many of them are racists, because they can't get over the fact that christian, white, males, are losing their grip on power.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^ CONSERVATIVE means STAY THE SAME, never advance.

 

[Trigeek]

Agree but how do you explain the way they have been brainwashed by right wing media and the orange idiot himself?
They've been brainwashed to hate, not think for themselves, and discriminate.

We are posting on a university forum so I’ve always assumed the majority are college educated. I often ask myself with regard to left wing media if that sounds correct? I’ve been trained to think analytically but still worrying about being “led to the well”. The fact that I’m concerned about that is good. As my doctor tells me, if you’re worried about taking medication you probably don’t have a concern about becoming hooked.
Somehow we have to regulate or control or point out the blatant lies. It’s a historical problem. We’ve relied on professional journalism but then the Hannities pop up who pretend to be journalists. They (and there are those in the left) feed red meat to the masses. Somehow we have to have an individual for everyone. A JFK figure to step up and be supported by everyone. Not sure how to get there in politics. I do it all the time in work and life though

 

[Boosted87]

I can’t remember who it was that posted about not appreciating the Trump rally and insurgents plight. The case was made we have ignored these people who are struggling and losing the ability to make a living in America (I paraphrase).

I’d suggest that is all crap and a false narrative. These insurgents traveled to Washington DC, paid for hotels, dinners, beers etc. they are not poor and struggling.
This is all about racism. I believe all of the last 4 years is a reactionary backlash to Obama being president. It drew all these underground racist out and they have exposed themselves.
This is the reality. Look at the mob that attacked the capitol. White supremacy and racism on display.

I think you're wrong here. More importantly, I think blaming "racism" is the single worst way the left can communicate the problems we have. Why? The leader of the Proud Boys is from Little Havana in Miami and identifies as "Afro-Cuban." Every time someone calls the Proud Boys a "white supremacist" group they lose credibility to reasonable people trying to understand what the F is going on.

So if you're writing a PhD thesis on this, yea you're to deal a lot with the "white nationalism" angle here. It's absolutely a big part of what's going on. But the HUGE bulk of Trump supporters would not identify themselves as racist and they'd be happy to march side-by-side with a black dude wearing a MAGA shirt. So as soon as you tell that person "well you know actually you are racist you just don't realize it" you've lost them.

This makes race a divisive wedge issue that both sides exploit. You unite these sides by talking about the economic issues that are at the root of the actual grievances. If Trump blames Mexicans and the left blame White Supremacists, we aren't getting anywhere. Both sides can come together and continue to make policy that benefits the corporate donors that fund them both at the expense of the working class.

Hillary Clinton's use of the term "deplorable" was the single worst political statement I can remember. In a single word, she summed up the exact feelings of rural America - that the elites in DC think nothing of them. That their grievances don't matter. That they're all a bunch of backwards racist hillbillies.

The vast majority of the people at the Capitol are victims. They were manipulated by a demagogue, aided by a propaganda system, and organized by con-artist grifters.

 

[DaShuckster]

Somehow we have to regulate or control or point out the blatant lies. It’s a historical problem. We’ve relied on professional journalism but then the Hannities pop up who pretend to be journalists. They (and there are those in the left) feed red meat to the masses.

You nailed it. This is why the country has become so divisive.

It took a lot more than one crazy old coot in the White House to bring us to where we are today. He had serious help.

Thanks to the "news sources" living on cable and the internet we're allowed to live in two alternate realities. The day after the attack on the Capitol I listened to Rush Limbaugh because I was curious what his take would be. Would he 'fess up?Naturally, I learned that Trump supporters could relax because it had to be the work of Antifa because the Right would NEVER resort to violence. I sat in my car realizing that half the country was listening -- and believing -- his bullshit.

Given that, is it any wonder that we got to the point where people could attack the Capitol because an election that was won by 7 million-plus votes and by multiple states in the Electoral College was viewed as "stolen"?

 

[Boosted87]

Somehow we have to regulate or control or point out the blatant lies. It’s a historical problem. We’ve relied on professional journalism but then the Hannities pop up who pretend to be journalists. They (and there are those in the left) feed red meat to the masses. Somehow we have to have an individual for everyone. A JFK figure to step up and be supported by everyone. Not sure how to get there in politics. I do it all the time in work and life though

I simply don't think we understand how to balance the 1st Amendment in the age of instantaneous mass communication. You're right - the media used to be trusted gatekeepers. We relied on rational people to filter for the masses.

This is why I'm not particularly bothered by social media cracking down in recent days. I wholeheartedly support free speech. But no one argues that the media in the 1960's was censoring speech because they chose not to cover baseless conspiracy theories. If social media companies have to assume the "gatekeeper" role to keep us moving forward so be it. I dislike it but I prefer it to the alternative where FB radicalizes grandpa.

 

[firm_bizzle]

I think you're wrong here. More importantly, I think blaming "racism" is the single worst way the left can communicate the problems we have. Why? The leader of the Proud Boys is from Little Havana in Miami and identifies as "Afro-Cuban." Every time someone calls the Proud Boys a "white supremacist" group they lose credibility to reasonable people trying to understand what the F is going on.

So if you're writing a PhD thesis on this, yea you're to deal a lot with the "white nationalism" angle here. It's absolutely a big part of what's going on. But the HUGE bulk of Trump supporters would not identify themselves as racist and they'd be happy to march side-by-side with a black dude wearing a MAGA shirt. So as soon as you tell that person "well you know actually you are racist you just don't realize it" you've lost them.

This makes race a divisive wedge issue that both sides exploit. You unite these sides by talking about the economic issues that are at the root of the actual grievances. If Trump blames Mexicans and the left blame White Supremacists, we aren't getting anywhere. Both sides can come together and continue to make policy that benefits the corporate donors that fund them both at the expense of the working class.

Hillary Clinton's use of the term "deplorable" was the single worst political statement I can remember. In a single word, she summed up the exact feelings of rural America - that the elites in DC think nothing of them. That their grievances don't matter. That they're all a bunch of backwards racist hillbillies.

The vast majority of the people at the Capitol are victims. They were manipulated by a demagogue, aided by a propaganda system, and organized by con-artist grifters.

It was unfortunate that she used that term. However, at that time early summer 2016, that was Trump's coalition. He had not coalesced the Republican Party yet. His base were people like him sexists, racists, xenophobes, grifters, conspiracy theorists charlatans and people on the outskirts of the GOP. That was obvious by the staff that surrounded him.

 

[ChrisKnight06]

I think you're wrong here. More importantly, I think blaming "racism" is the single worst way the left can communicate the problems we have. Why? The leader of the Proud Boys is from Little Havana in Miami and identifies as "Afro-Cuban." Every time someone calls the Proud Boys a "white supremacist" group they lose credibility to reasonable people trying to understand what the F is going on.

So if you're writing a PhD thesis on this, yea you're to deal a lot with the "white nationalism" angle here. It's absolutely a big part of what's going on. But the HUGE bulk of Trump supporters would not identify themselves as racist and they'd be happy to march side-by-side with a black dude wearing a MAGA shirt. So as soon as you tell that person "well you know actually you are racist you just don't realize it" you've lost them.

This makes race a divisive wedge issue that both sides exploit. You unite these sides by talking about the economic issues that are at the root of the actual grievances. If Trump blames Mexicans and the left blame White Supremacists, we aren't getting anywhere. Both sides can come together and continue to make policy that benefits the corporate donors that fund them both at the expense of the working class.

Hillary Clinton's use of the term "deplorable" was the single worst political statement I can remember. In a single word, she summed up the exact feelings of rural America - that the elites in DC think nothing of them. That their grievances don't matter. That they're all a bunch of backwards racist hillbillies.

The vast majority of the people at the Capitol are victims. They were manipulated by a demagogue, aided by a propaganda system, and organized by con-artist grifters.

Man I can't like this enough

 

[Trigeek]

I think you're wrong here. More importantly, I think blaming "racism" is the single worst way the left can communicate the problems we have. Why? The leader of the Proud Boys is from Little Havana in Miami and identifies as "Afro-Cuban." Every time someone calls the Proud Boys a "white supremacist" group they lose credibility to reasonable people trying to understand what the F is going on.

So if you're writing a PhD thesis on this, yea you're to deal a lot with the "white nationalism" angle here. It's absolutely a big part of what's going on. But the HUGE bulk of Trump supporters would not identify themselves as racist and they'd be happy to march side-by-side with a black dude wearing a MAGA shirt. So as soon as you tell that person "well you know actually you are racist you just don't realize it" you've lost them.

This makes race a divisive wedge issue that both sides exploit. You unite these sides by talking about the economic issues that are at the root of the actual grievances. If Trump blames Mexicans and the left blame White Supremacists, we aren't getting anywhere. Both sides can come together and continue to make policy that benefits the corporate donors that fund them both at the expense of the working class.

Hillary Clinton's use of the term "deplorable" was the single worst political statement I can remember. In a single word, she summed up the exact feelings of rural America - that the elites in DC think nothing of them. That their grievances don't matter. That they're all a bunch of backwards racist hillbillies.

The vast majority of the people at the Capitol are victims. They were manipulated by a demagogue, aided by a propaganda system, and organized by con-artist grifters.

Ok, I think you make some very credible points.
First, I struggle with the statement that the Proud Boys can't be racist because they have an Afro-Cuban leader. I get the point but actions speak louder and I do believe they perform and support racist acts.

I agree it's a difficult position and claiming racist is a divisive wedge and they do and will use the old adage of "Some of my best friends are blacks...". I get your point of if you want to solve this issue on a grand scheme it's not going to work claiming racist. I do think Trump has used a racist tendency to wake a sleeping giant. However, I don't believe this is an issue of a group of people being exploited or suffering more than others.

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that the people of the Capital are victims manipulated by a demagogue, aided by propaganda and con artist..

Great post BTW... Thanks,

 

[DaShuckster]

I think you're wrong here. More importantly, I think blaming "racism" is the single worst way the left can communicate the problems we have. Why? The leader of the Proud Boys is from Little Havana in Miami and identifies as "Afro-Cuban."

Enjoy your posts, Boosted, but I have a problem with this statement because racism is not a 'white' condition, it's a human one. Minorities can be just as racist as anybody else. It's just that its usually more overt when you're in the majority culture. Same is true of sexism. It's not just a 'male' thing.

 

[Boosted87]

It was unfortunate that she used that term. However, at that time early summer 2016, that was Trump's coalition. He had not coalesced the Republican Party yet. His base were people like him sexists, racists, xenophobes, grifters, conspiracy theorists charlatans and people on the outskirts of the GOP. That was obvious by the staff that surrounded him.

Just checked and that was Sept 2016 - like 60 days before the General election. If you know American politics, you know that a wet paper bag is gonna get 45% of the vote in a 2 party race. She literally said "half" of his supporters fit that description. But it doesn't matter - once you say that, 100% of them are going to assume you're speaking of them.

 

[Boosted87]

Enjoy your posts, Boosted, but I have a problem with this statement because racism is not a 'white' condition, it's a human one. Minorities can be just as racist as anybody else. It's just that its usually more overt when you're in the majority culture. Same is true of sexism. It's not just a 'male' thing.

I mean yea I get it but you're not going to persuade the people that need persuading with a PhD thesis on race in America. Race is a huge issue and probably always will be. I have family members that fit the definition of the problem here. Not overtly racist in anyway and think that means race isn't a problem. Tell them the Proud Boys is a White Supremacist organization with a black/cuban leader and they roll their eyes.

So this is more a question of how you message to these Americans with relatable empathy rather than simply telling them how smart we are and how ignorant they are.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Just checked and that was Sept 2016 - like 60 days before the General election. If you know American politics, you know that a wet paper bag is gonna get 45% of the vote in a 2 party race. She literally said "half" of his supporters fit that description. But it doesn't matter - once you say that, 100% of them are going to assume you're speaking of them.

I get your point. It probably would have been more fitting earlier in the year. I remember a cartoon ad about Trump's base, saying that he had the guys with combovers, on their 3rd wife, liked long ties, cheaters and people who like gold plated stuff locked up. He had a bunch of misfits running his campaign.

 

[DaShuckster]

So this is more a question of how you message to these Americans with relatable empathy rather than simply telling them how smart we are and how ignorant they are.

How do you message the 'Archie Bunkers' of the country who don't want to be 'educated' by "those meathead libs"?

I had to smile when GOP leaders were congratulating themselves following the election over a small (but, nonetheless, increased) percentage of Black men who voted Republican this time. My first thought was that it had more to do with their discomfort over the Democrat Party's 'big umbrella' support for LGBTQ than with anything the GOP actually did.

 

[Crazyhole]

How do you message the 'Archie Bunkers' of the country who don't want to be 'educated' by "those meathead libs"?

I had to smile when GOP leaders were congratulating themselves following the election over a small (but, nonetheless, increased) percentage of Black men who voted Republican this time. My first thought was that it had more to do with their discomfort over the Democrat Party's 'big umbrella' support for LGBTQ than with anything the GOP actually did.

You just did it again. The only reason blacks would vote republican is because they are homophobes.

 

[Boosted87]

How do you message the 'Archie Bunkers' of the country who don't want to be 'educated' by "those meathead libs"?

Number one - don't be a know it all. For these folks it's emotional. Attacking their beliefs feels like a personal attack on them. Especially when the attack is "everybody's racist".

You don't need to try and understand why they mobbed the capitol. We all know who's fault that is. But you do want to understand why they were susceptible to his kind of message and why it resonates. I don't have all the answers but I do know there are obvious things making it worse.

 

[Cubs79]

Number one - don't be a know it all. For these folks it's emotional. Attacking their beliefs feels like a personal attack on them. Especially when the attack is "everybody's racist".

You don't need to try and understand why they mobbed the capitol. We all know who's fault that is. But you do want to understand why they were susceptible to his kind of message and why it resonates. I don't have all the answers but I do know there are obvious things making it worse.

I get where you are coming from, but at some point, their beliefs need to be attacked, or better yet, just disassociated with. The Q anon type stuff I think needs to be ridiculed for being what it is, which is a delusional cult. I don't think we get anywhere by pretending this is all normal, I think all we do is make it even more acceptable. Now I do agree there is a difference in someone who just has different mainstream Republican/Libertarian political views, and the more radical people, so I am not talking about all Republicans or even Trump supporters. But I do think Q anon, Proud Boys etc, are beyond what you are talking about. How do you even pretend to have a conversation with someone who wears a Camp Aushwitz shirt? How do you reason with someone who thinks because you support Democrats, that you are a pedophile?

 

[Crazyhole]

I get where you are coming from, but at some point, their beliefs need to be attacked, or better yet, just disassociated with. The Q anon type stuff I think needs to be ridiculed for being what it is, which is a delusional cult. I don't think we get anywhere by pretending this is all normal, I think all we do is make it even more acceptable. Now I do agree there is a difference in someone who just has different mainstream Republican/Libertarian political views, and the more radical people, so I am not talking about all Republicans or even Trump supporters. But I do think Q anon, Proud Boys etc, are beyond what you are talking about. How do you even pretend to have a conversation with someone who wears a Camp Aushwitz shirt? How do you reason with someone who thinks because you support Democrats, that you are a pedophile?

Agreed for the most part. People that have insane beliefs like that there are more than 2 genders should also be mocked and ridiculed for that belief.

 

[Cubs79]

Agreed for the most part. People that have insane beliefs like that there are more than 2 genders should also be mocked and ridiculed for that belief.

Except that doesn't affect you in any way what so ever. Let's stop with the false equivalencies.

 

[Crazyhole]

Except that doesn't affect you in any way what so ever. Let's stop with the false equivalencies.

How does it affect you if someone believes in qanon?