There is no vaccine mandate

[Crazyhole]

It hasn't been signed or implemented into policy yet.

This brings up a lot of questions, but foremost in my mind is does an employer now have total liability for any damages if someone has a bad reaction to the vaccine. Technically, it's all on them for forcing an employee to get it.

 

[Cubs79]

It hasn't been signed or implemented into policy yet.

This brings up a lot of questions, but foremost in my mind is does an employer now have total liability for any damages if someone has a bad reaction to the vaccine. Technically, it's all on them for forcing an employee to get it.

If someone gets a vaccine to stay employed with the employer that is their personal decision. They arent forcing anyone to get a vaccine, people are allowed to quit and employees are allowed to fire people, especially in at will work states.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

A person isn’t required to be employed. So no they will not be liable for a hypothetical vaccine injury based on an employment requirement. There are already vaccine requirement for children entering school and schools is actually something required. There are no legality issues.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Hope they get sued if they are forcing vaccinations.

People will sue, no doubt. You can sue for anything. They will end up poorer for it, but it’s their right.

 

[chemmie]

What happened to businesses having the freedom to run how they see fit? Does that only count when discriminating against gays and blacks?

 

[Crazyhole]

A person isn’t required to be employed. So no they will not be liable for a hypothetical vaccine injury based on an employment requirement. There are already vaccine requirement for children entering school and schools is actually something required. There are no legality issues.

Kids are not required to be vaccinated to attend school. I wish this canard would go away.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Kids are not required to be vaccinated to attend school. I wish this canard would go away.

Without medical exemption states have laws that require students to be vaccinated to attend public school. You can home school or maybe pay for a private school to take an unvaccinated child in (though most of those also have the requirement). It’s a choice not unlike choosing to be self employed.

 

[Crazyhole]

Without medical exemption states have laws that require students to be vaccinated to attend public school. You can home school or maybe pay for a private school to take an unvaccinated child in (though most of those also have the requirement). It’s a choice not unlike choosing to be self employed.

There are only like 2 or 3 states that have that policy. The rest of them you can just say no and your kid can go to public school.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

There are only like 2 or 3 states that have that policy. The rest of them you can just say no and your kid can go to public school.

14 states have philosophical exemptions. An additional 30 states have a verifiable religious exemption. And 6 states only have a medical exemption.

 

[UCFBS]

Short version: Right now corporate lawyers are still debating various scenarios and many don't know how to handle many. The common theme among them all is that the administration has provided extremely piss-poor, and often utterly lacking, guidance so they can reduce their civil liablity.

I.e., None of this fits any existing scenario or common law.

Spoiler: Based on my advisement from lawyers, directly, 1st hand

Hence why the OP is at least partially correct, the 'mandate' is really still being debated ... even though it will likely still be a 'mandate' for some, but not all. Federal prime contractors will likely have no exemptions, for starters. Beyond that, again, it's still heavily under review.

That's not saying it as a lawyer, but pointing out the obviousness of the truth of the entire legal community right now, including nearly a half-dozen lawyers I've had to personally speak with, or as advised with a larger group of officers and peers.

Anyone saying otherwise is only showcasing their gross ignorance.

E.g., some of us are in the real position where we don't know how this is going to affect volunteers and non-profits -- including foreign entities (like one I represent as an officer) -- since the mandate includes remote individuals, and how they are defined as 'employees' (when they aren't paid, or corp-to-corp).

But I am tired of the bullshit statements around here, and then people who have the balls to make fun of me, when they themselves FIRST started making legal statements! Some of you continue to asserting things that are dead wrong even legally irresponsible, and then when I point that out ...

You literally have the balls of saying I'm the one doing such?! Your original assertion, followed by accusation and one-way attitude, is beyond nuts.

Spoiler: A great example of total hypocrisy and liability

Which brings me to @hemightbejeremy who has mouthed off about me not being a lawyer, when he is the one that usually posts well before me, and states many things that many lawyers I work with regularly would say is utterly wrong and irresponsible.

A person isn’t required to be employed.

Okay, now that made me laugh ... because it's the stupidest thing I've ever read. And no, you don't need to be a lawyer to understand why.

Your employer can be totally sued by you by forcing you to do things to remain employed which causes injury. That still happens plenty in an at-will/right-to-work state too.

I really don't understand your logic here at all, especially the hypocrisy of it at times. Most specifically, most of your statement seem to be utterly partisan, and then applied differently ... the exact same statement.

So no they will not be liable for a hypothetical vaccine injury based on an employment requirement.

Did you just say there's no such thing as a vaccine injury?

They are very difficult to prove in the US, but yes, they do happen. In 2/3rds of intra-musclar vaccine cases, it's the technician injecting it into the shoulder-bone or other technician-caused issue. The other 1/3rd are payload related.

There are already vaccine requirement for children entering school and schools is actually something required. There are no legality issues.

Public instititutions are another issue, and any lawyer will point out it's not the same as private.
I.e., it's utterly reckless to equate the two, and go ahead and find a lawyer who disagrees.

I know you bozos will mouth off about how I'm not a lawyer, but you're actually the ones asserting law FIRST.
I just choose not to be ignorant, especially given my background, while you guys spew off blindly.

And I'm the problem?!

Seriously ... this right here is about as irresponsible as one can get.
And no, I don't just do IT ... geez, some of you guys literally are the king of hypocrisy.

 

[UCFBS]

... And 6 states only have a medical exemption.

Yes, which is why we're at the point where we will harm or kill a kid ... which is what the AMA is arguing against too.

I.e., the AMA is for eliminating all non-medical exceptions, but is for all medical exemptions, and has been critical of the hypocrisy -- with both parties, not just one.

But we live in a society that now values the group over the individual, and that's why American Libertarianism in the US is dead. Because even science doesn't matter.

 

[Nautiknight]

Employers jumped the gun on this nonmandate mandate. There are significant constitutional issues with the government forcing a drug on individuals. Thus an end around guilting employers to do it. get the vaccine or don't pay your mortgage ,your food bill or power bill is the choice some people are more or less forced to make. its wrong .

I am a small business owner. Honestly about half my crew has had covid and as biologist I believe in science and natural immunity so they are good to go and the other half are vaccinated. so I am told because I don't ask. I am not mandating anything regarding their individual healthcare choices . I respect my employees liberty to do what they know best for their lives.

 

[chemmie]

Employers jumped the gun on this nonmandate mandate. There are significant constitutional issues with the government forcing a drug on individuals. Thus an end around guilting employers to do it. get the vaccine or don't pay your mortgage ,your food bill or power bill is the choice some people are more or less forced to make. its wrong .

I am a small business owner. Honestly about half my crew has had covid and as biologist I believe in science and natural immunity so they are good to go and the other half are vaccinated. so I am told because I don't ask. I am not mandating anything regarding their individual healthcare choices . I respect my employees liberty to do what they know best for their lives.

It isn't a drug, Mr. Biologist.

 

[Ucfmikes]

Yes, which is why we're at the point where we will harm or kill a kid ... which is what the AMA is arguing against too.

I.e., the AMA is for eliminating all non-medical exceptions, but is for all medical exemptions, and has been critical of the hypocrisy -- with both parties, not just one.

But we live in a society that now values the group over the individual, and that's why American Libertarianism in the US is dead. Because even science doesn't matter.

Yes, which is why we're at the point where we will harm or kill a kid ... which is what the AMA is arguing against too.

I.e., the AMA is for eliminating all non-medical exceptions, but is for all medical exemptions, and has been critical of the hypocrisy -- with both parties, not just one.

But we live in a society that now values the group over the individual, and that's why American Libertarianism in the US is dead. Because even science doesn't matter.

Employers jumped the gun on this nonmandate mandate. There are significant constitutional issues with the government forcing a drug on individuals. Thus an end around guilting employers to do it. get the vaccine or don't pay your mortgage ,your food bill or power bill is the choice some people are more or less forced to make. its wrong .

I am a small business owner. Honestly about half my crew has had covid and as biologist I believe in science and natural immunity so they are good to go and the other half are vaccinated. so I am told because I don't ask. I am not mandating anything regarding their individual healthcare choices . I respect my employees liberty to do what they know best for their lives.

 

[sk8knight]

If someone gets a vaccine to stay employed with the employer that is their personal decision. They arent forcing anyone to get a vaccine, people are allowed to quit and employees are allowed to fire people, especially in at will work states.

I’m all for what you’re saying about the right to work or not, but you can extend that philosophy to harsh working environments, unfair pay environments, harassing environments, etc. No one has to work at that place where all the boys act like they’re 13 and have posters of women in bikinis and make crude jokes but stop short of pressing it on women. Yet we all know that any woman bringing a lawsuit will win because the employer has created an environment in which women feel uncomfortable. Forcing a vaccine creates a potentially harmful situation for an employee without any real connection to most people’s work requirements.

 

[DaShuckster]

I’m all for what you’re saying about the right to work or not, but you can extend that philosophy to harsh working environments, unfair pay environments, harassing environments, etc. No one has to work at that place where all the boys act like they’re 13 and have posters of women in bikinis and make crude jokes but stop short of pressing it on women. Yet we all know that any woman bringing a lawsuit will win because the employer has created an environment in which women feel uncomfortable. Forcing a vaccine creates a potentially harmful situation for an employee without any real connection to most people’s work requirements.

ROTFLMAO. Comparing a health and safety measure to sexual harassment. 🤪

 

[hemightbejeremy]

I’m all for what you’re saying about the right to work or not, but you can extend that philosophy to harsh working environments, unfair pay environments, harassing environments, etc. No one has to work at that place where all the boys act like they’re 13 and have posters of women in bikinis and make crude jokes but stop short of pressing it on women. Yet we all know that any woman bringing a lawsuit will win because the employer has created an environment in which women feel uncomfortable. Forcing a vaccine creates a potentially harmful situation for an employee without any real connection to most people’s work requirements.

I think more people are injured from lifting 50 pounds (as specified in job requirement) than a vaccine. Orders of magnitude more actually. There are discrimination laws that protect certain classes of people from being discriminated against. There is no precedent for a protected class that consists of people who voluntarily choose to be part of that class (unless you believe sexual orientation is a choice).

 

[Crazyhole]

Very strange situation.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

View embedded media

Very strange situation.

I heard that the federal mandate does apply as the airlines are considered federal contractors.

U.S. Airlines, As Federal Contractors, Must Vaccinate All Workers | Aviation Week Network

The major U.S. airlines are taking steps to comply with a directive from the Biden administration ordering large federal contractors to vaccinate their employees by Dec. 8.

aviationweek.com

 

[Crazyhole]

I heard that the federal mandate does apply as the airlines are considered federal contractors.

U.S. Airlines, As Federal Contractors, Must Vaccinate All Workers | Aviation Week Network

The major U.S. airlines are taking steps to comply with a directive from the Biden administration ordering large federal contractors to vaccinate their employees by Dec. 8.

aviationweek.com

I wonder if Biden will take the Reagan approach to this. That would REALLY complicate things.

 

[UCFBS]

I think more people are injured from lifting 50 pounds (as specified in job requirement) than a vaccine.

And far more kids are killed by parental negligence from all sorts of things than any gun -- even parental negligence with a gun. Which brings me too ...

Orders of magnitude more actually.

But if you apply the same statistics to pneumonia or influenza-B ... we should have locked down a long time ago to 'protect the kids.'

Add TB into the mix, and that too is a reason to 'protect the adults.'

That's why we are now a hyperbole society that refuses to look at the raw data, and I now call 'Lies, Damn Lies and Zuctistics.'

We literally refuse to be objective, and want to be utterly partisan.

There are discrimination laws that protect certain classes of people from being discriminated against. There is no precedent for a protected class that consists of people who voluntarily choose to be part of that class

That's not true at all. We have hate crimes based on religious affiliation, among other things.

I hoenstly don't understand why you keep throwing out 'facts' that are easily disproven, other than for partisan reasons.

(unless you believe sexual orientation is a choice).

Again ... religion. People are discriminated in this country for religion, constantly, and are a protected class in the 1st Amendment.

Did you miss some of the recent rulings by the SCOTUS against states like Colorado, where even the Progressive Justices -- even all of them in a couple of cases -- clearly and very loudly stated that the state of Colorado had systematically discriminated against religious choices in ways that treated them differently than everyone else?

Why to Progressives act like this doesn't exist, and there are no protections, when even Progressive SCOTUS Justices are pointing it out?

 

[UCFBS]

A person isn’t required to be employed.

I just cannot let this go ...

It's the right to a livelihood. You need to stop making this assertion. It's the same as the 'fire/croweded theater' argument, at utter odds with the US Constitution.

And yes, so directly advised by a lawyer.

 

[Crazyhole]

American Airlines canceled 229 flights today.

 

[Crazyhole]

14 states have philosophical exemptions. An additional 30 states have a verifiable religious exemption. And 6 states only have a medical exemption.

Last night I was talking to a friend who is a legitimate antivaxxer. I asked him if his kids had been vaccinated and he said no, they never got any vaccine of any kind. No MMR, Dtap, polio, nothing. I asked what he had to do to get them enrolled in school and he said for public schools they never even asked. When he enrolled his daughter in college, he said it was just one form that asked if she was vaccinated for each thing, but nobody questioned it. I found that interesting because I know the guy that was the dean of admissions at that college and he insists that kids have always had to be vaccinated to go to public schools.

I'm not suggesting anything by this, I just thought it was interesting because I had never really even thought much about the issue until this year. My kids were all vaxxed and I assumed it actually was required to go to school.

 

[Ucfmikes]

Sweet! Hope holiday travel is completely destroyed by the Biden regime.

It won’t matter to you retards anyway. There’s no airline based in your mother’s basement. You need a mask anyway

 

[Ucfmikes]

I've been in and out of hotels nearly every other weekend since the start of the China virus.

Meanwhile the betas are hiding.

To give @Crazyhole his weekly handjobs?

Hope it’s not in NGEbraska since you can’t fly anywhere. I’ve been overseas and all over the country. 😂😂😂

 

[UCFBS]

I'm waiting for the lawsuits where each and every gov't admits they don't have to counter the proof that Natural Immunity qualifies as eqiuvalent or better than vaccinations from a public safety standpoint.

At that point, every gov't basically admits they didn't pass the mandate for science-backed reasons, and has to admit they've suspended everyone's right to the pursuit of happiness without justification.

If I was a justice in that state when that happens, I'd put out an arrest warrant for contempt on the official of the Executive Order, and throw them in jail, telling them, "Prove to me you weren't in contempt, and then after you do in a court of law, I'll just say it doesn't matter, I'm taking away your livelihood too 'Because I said so,' and sentence you for contempt yet further."

Heck, if I was removed from the bench and disbarred after, I'd probaly just say, "See, this is the example we've set. I just applied it in the same manner, and it was wrong. It was worth it to showcase how wrong it is."