Trump bringing back the death penalty

[UCFWayne]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/new...0190725-wutqhzizf5ez7jdkn4ajaupwzi-story.html

U.S. to resume executions for first time since 2003, starting in December with 5 inmates

#winning

 

[Ucfmikes]

Hillary is hosed

I’m kidding!!!

 

[Crazyhole]

Total distraction and completely politically motivated. We all know that none of these people will be executed, it's just something to draw attention away from whatever other important stuff is going on.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Can you imagine being so fuking stupid you call yourself a libertarian and support the death penalty.

This board never ceases to entertain.

 

[UCFWayne]

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/fede...ital-punishment-after-nearly-two-decade-lapse

these are the fine upstanding citizens that some would say dont deserve the cruel and unusual punishment of the death penalty.

• Daniel Lewis Lee, a member of a white supremacist group, murdered a family of three, including an eight-year-old girl. After robbing and shooting the victims with a stun gun, Lee covered their heads with plastic bags, sealed the bags with duct tape, weighed down each victim with rocks, and threw the family of three into the Illinois bayou. On May 4, 1999, a jury in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas found Lee guilty of numerous offenses, including three counts of murder in aid of racketeering, and he was sentenced to death. Lee’s execution is scheduled to occur on Dec. 9, 2019.
• Lezmond Mitchell stabbed to death a 63-year-old grandmother and forced her nine-year-old granddaughter to sit beside her lifeless body for a 30 to 40-mile drive. Mitchell then slit the girl’s throat twice, crushed her head with 20-pound rocks, and severed and buried both victims’ heads and hands. On May 8, 2003, a jury in the U.S. District Court for the District of Arizona found Mitchell guilty of numerous offenses, including first degree murder, felony murder, and carjacking resulting in murder, and he was sentenced to death. Mitchell’s execution is scheduled to occur on Dec. 11, 2019.
• Wesley Ira Purkey violently raped and murdered a 16-year-old girl, and then dismembered, burned, and dumped the young girl’s body in a septic pond. He also was convicted in state court for using a claw hammer to bludgeon to death an 80-year-old woman who suffered from polio and walked with a cane. On Nov. 5, 2003, a jury in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Missouri found Purkey guilty of kidnapping a child resulting in the child’s death, and he was sentenced to death. Purkey’s execution is scheduled to occur on Dec. 13, 2019.
• Alfred Bourgeois physically and emotionally tortured, sexually molested, and then beat to death his two-and-a-half-year-old daughter. On March 16, 2004, a jury in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas found Bourgeois guilty of multiple offenses, including murder, and he was sentenced to death. Bourgeois’ execution is scheduled to occur on Jan. 13, 2020.
• Dustin Lee Honken shot and killed five people—two men who planned to testify against him and a single, working mother and her ten-year-old and six-year-old daughters. On Oct. 14, 2004, a jury in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Iowa found Honken guilty of numerous offenses, including five counts of murder during the course of a continuing criminal enterprise, and he was sentenced to death. Honken’s execution is scheduled to occur on Jan. 15, 2020.

imagine arguing that a guy that would kill a 63yr grandmother, and then make her 9yr grand daughter sit next to the dead body for 30-40 miles before killing her doesnt deserve the death penalty. yea id say you are a sick person.

 

[UCFBS]

As a Libertarian, I'm against the death penalty for two (2) reasons.

1. Cost - It costs more in lawyers to execute than take care of the rest of their lives
2. Due Process - To 'save on [lawyer] costs,' some locales (e.g., Texas) limit appeals and other Due Process

It's the 1-2 combination that keeps me steadfast against the 'death penalty' in the US.

 

[UCFWayne]

As a Libertarian, I'm against the death penalty for two (2) reasons.

1. Cost - It costs more in lawyers to execute than take care of the rest of their lives
2. Due Process - To 'save on [lawyer] costs,' some locales (e.g., Texas) limit appeals and other Due Process

It's the 1-2 combination that keeps me steadfast against the 'death penalty' in the US.

i wonder if youd feel the same if someone raped and murdered members of your family.

 

[UCFBS]

i wonder if youd feel the same if someone raped and murdered members of your family.

I would force myself to be the same. Remember, I'm a Libertarian, and to take that even further, I'm a Libertarian who was very moved by the testaments in the Gospel to forgive and leave judgement to both God and blind justice, among other things.

 

[Crazyhole]

I would force myself to be the same. Remember, I'm a Libertarian, and to take that even further, I'm a Libertarian who was very moved by the testaments in the Gospel to forgive and leave judgement to both God and blind justice, among other things.

You don't have to remind anybody that you're a libertarian.

 

[fried-chicken]

i wonder if youd feel the same if someone raped and murdered members of your family.

LINO

 

[UCFKnightfan08]

If you purposely kill someone, there’s no use for you here anymore. Not saying people guilty of negligent homicide and things like that need to get the death penalty but these cases that AG Barr is talking about fit the bill perfectly.

 

[UCFWayne]

LINO

you doing ok? i know its been a really tough couple weeks for you. #losing

 

[Crazyhole]

LINO

Lol, what does that even mean? As a libertarian myself, I ascribe to the ideal that people shouldn't be categorized in any way shape or form. As a libertarian, I am able to hold my own positions that are independent of any political party and would never label anyone. The fact that you are labeling people upsets me because I am a libertarian. It's unfair to me, as a libertarian that you would call someone not a libertarian even though they clearly are a libertarian because they hold the same values as millions of other people who individually identify as being libertarian based on their belief that individuality and our own experience keeps us from having a label that we carry.


Sorry UCFBS, I just had to do it.

 

[Husk in butt]

No sympathy for cold blooded murders. Assuming the case is obvious, fast track death row. Funny the left sides with murders, child killers, lazy folks, and corrupt politicians. Great platform!

 

[DaShuckster]

We've become a real pussy society ever since we stopped chopping off people's hands for burglary.

 

[UCFBS]

If you purposely kill someone, there’s no use for you here anymore. Not saying people guilty of negligent homicide and things like that need to get the death penalty but these cases that AG Barr is talking about fit the bill perfectly.

That's not the argument.

The argument is how many cases and appeals -- as well as years and money for lawyers -- do we require before we are 'certain' they are guilty? That's the actual question, because upon death, there is no 'real' acquittal possible for the person (when they are still alive).

From my Libertarian viewpoint, it's too expensive to do so thoroughly, and the Texas approach has resulted in the death of innocent people. So life imprisonment is what I support.

SIDE NOTE: I do think executing Manning would have prevented President Obama commuting her (formerly his) sentence after only 20% of time served. It's the only time I supported such, and Manning confessed. I'd support death to stop 100% politically motivated, 0% appropriate, releases after so little time served. BTW, I originally defended the (same) person who leaked only select cables (whistleblowing), but not the full dump of them (total a-hole'ism without care). I think Manning should have served her full 35 years, period, or at least 20-25 before parole. And her lawyers wanting her released over 'medical complications' just makes me roll over given all the transgender military personnel still serving (don't get me started).

 

[UCFBS]

Lol, what does that even mean? As a libertarian myself, I ascribe to the ideal that people shouldn't be categorized in any way shape or form. As a libertarian, I am able to hold my own positions that are independent of any political party and would never label anyone. The fact that you are labeling people upsets me because I am a libertarian. It's unfair to me, as a libertarian that you would call someone not a libertarian even though they clearly are a libertarian because they hold the same values as millions of other people who individually identify as being libertarian based on their belief that individuality and our own experience keeps us from having a label that we carry.
Sorry UCFBS, I just had to do it.

I think I've explained my viewpoint enough. Some Libertarians disagree with me, but I listed my Libertarianism in response to someone asking if it was someone I knew, cared about, loved, etc...

Libertarians are supposed to separate their personal feelings from the state, and that's what I did. I don't know any Libertarian principals that disagree with that.

 

[Crazyhole]

I think I've explained my viewpoint enough. Some Libertarians disagree with me, but I listed my Libertarianism in response to someone asking if it was someone I knew, cared about, loved, etc...

Libertarians are supposed to separate their personal feelings from the state, and that's what I did. I don't know any Libertarian principals that disagree with that.

You aren't libertarian enough to self describe as a libertarian because libertarians are individuals that are free from labels. The only people who are libertarian enough to be labeled libertarian reject the idea of being labeled.

 

[UCFBS]

You aren't libertarian enough to self describe as a libertarian because libertarians are individuals that are free from labels. The only people who are libertarian enough to be labeled libertarian reject the idea of being labeled.

Okay, let me re-phrase ... "I practice American Libertarian ideals in all of my views, unless otherwise noted. This includes not wanting to use my emotions in place of the judicial system."

Disclaimed enough for you?

 

[Crazyhole]

Okay, let me re-phrase ... "I practice American Libertarian ideals in all of my views, unless otherwise noted. This includes not wanting to use my emotions in place of the judicial system."

Disclaimed enough for you?

Libertarians never have to retract and disclaim. They also don't recognize the judicial system.

 

[UCFKnight85]

The death penalty should go away for one simple reason: we have exonerated guys on death row with new DNA evidence who were scheduled to die. Think about that. Someone who was totally innocent of a crime was not just imprisoned but sentenced to die. I have to imagine then that we actually have killed innocent people who were sentenced to death before anyone had DNA evidence to free them.

If there's even a .1% chance that we could send an innocent person to death then the practice needs to go away.

 

[fried-chicken]

Libertarians never have to retract and disclaim. They also don't recognize the judicial system.

 

[UCFBS]

The death penalty should go away for one simple reason: we have exonerated guys on death row with new DNA evidence who were scheduled to die. Think about that. Someone who was totally innocent of a crime was not just imprisoned but sentenced to die. I have to imagine then that we actually have killed innocent people who were sentenced to death before anyone had DNA evidence to free them.
If there's even a .1% chance that we could send an innocent person to death then the practice needs to go away.

^^^ That is actually a very American Libertarian viewpoint

My added comment is that it costs more to put someone on death row, than keep them alive the rest of their life ... in appeals and lawyers required by the former.
Unless one is like Texas, where we limit costs by limiting appeals, which is where this argument returns ... killing people faster to save on costs, only to find out they were innocent later.

That's why life imprisonment is cheaper and more just, because the alternatives are about cost v. constitutionality.

 

[sk8knight]

^^^ That is actually a very American Libertarian viewpoint

My added comment is that it costs more to put someone on death row, than keep them alive the rest of their life ... in appeals and lawyers required by the former.
Unless one is like Texas, where we limit costs by limiting appeals, which is where this argument returns ... killing people faster to save on costs, only to find out they were innocent later.

That's why life imprisonment is cheaper and more just, because the alternatives are about cost v. constitutionality.

Maybe the problem isn’t the penalty, but rather the standard for conviction itself. Beyond a reasonable sounds great and legal scholars know what it means, but most people don’t. We’re taking away people’s lives, whether through incarceration or death penalty, on cases that should never have been convictions in the first place.

 

[UCFKnight85]

^^^ That is actually a very American Libertarian viewpoint

My added comment is that it costs more to put someone on death row, than keep them alive the rest of their life ... in appeals and lawyers required by the former.
Unless one is like Texas, where we limit costs by limiting appeals, which is where this argument returns ... killing people faster to save on costs, only to find out they were innocent later.

That's why life imprisonment is cheaper and more just, because the alternatives are about cost v. constitutionality.

It's not a viewpoint of any particular political leaning. It's an opinion that makes sense for someone at any point on the political spectrum.

 

[ChrisKnight06]

It's not a viewpoint of any particular political leaning. It's an opinion that makes sense for someone at any point on the political spectrum.

At this point do you think he does it on purpose?

 

[UCFBS]

At this point do you think he does it on purpose?

Considering 2/3rds of Americans are Libertarian-leaning more than anything, maybe I'm just trying to get people to see it more than they do?

 

[UCFKnight85]

Considering 2/3rds of Americans are Libertarian-leaning more than anything, maybe I'm just trying to get people to see it more than they do?

lol what?

 

[UCFBS]

lol what?

2/3rds of Americans, when polled with a simple set of questions -- and this has been done by countless groups, many of the same ones that feed various national polls -- identify with Libertarian values, ones that have many things at odds with both the common Conservative or common Liberal sets.

E.g., nearly 3/4ths believe the government should preserve both the 2nd Amendment and a Woman's Right to Choose

 

[ChrisKnight06]

lol what?

Essentially all we need to do is get 2/3 of us to claim Libertarian and he'll stop.

Show of hands?