Trump revokes california waiver for emissions

[UCFWayne]

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/18/7618...ng-california-to-set-its-own-emissions-standa

President Trump said Wednesday his administration is revoking a waiver that allowed California to set its own standards for automobile emissions — a move that could derail a years-long push to produce more fuel efficient cars.


on one hand i think there should be 1 national standard, but im not a fan of trump doing this. i think this falls under state rights. either way im sure this is already heading to courts

 

[NinjaKnight]

Can you imagine, being so goddamn stupid that you call yourself a libertarian and then say things like "there should be 1 national standard"



Best comedy show ever.

 

[sk8knight]

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/18/7618...ng-california-to-set-its-own-emissions-standa

President Trump said Wednesday his administration is revoking a waiver that allowed California to set its own standards for automobile emissions — a move that could derail a years-long push to produce more fuel efficient cars.


on one hand i think there should be 1 national standard, but im not a fan of trump doing this. i think this falls under state rights. either way im sure this is already heading to courts

If it's a states-rights issue, then they shouldn't need a waiver. Fix the emissions policy in the first place to give the states more authority. It's trickier than that, though, in this case because you have one state setting the de facto standard for the rest of the country and setting the price floor as well. Another thought is, what difference does it make if we're just phasing out fossil fuel-powered automobiles anyways?

 

[Crazyhole]

The consumer movement for more fuel efficient cars is already dictating the market. California emissions standards are obsolete and at this point can only be used as a tool for social engineering. Personally, I don't care what California does as long as it only affects the people of California, but when they carry enough weight to dictate things for the rest of us I take issue with it.

 

[UCFWayne]

If it's a states-rights issue, then they shouldn't need a waiver. Fix the emissions policy in the first place to give the states more authority. It's trickier than that, though, in this case because you have one state setting the de facto standard for the rest of the country and setting the price floor as well. Another thought is, what difference does it make if we're just phasing out fossil fuel-powered automobiles anyways?

its definitely worth a debate. i think it would be one thing if they were arguing for lesser standards, but they wanted higher. i can see the pros/cons for both arguments. im guessing this is going to court and they will decide.

 

[fried-chicken]

The people of California voted for their representatives who put in a standard for pollution that they were comfortable with given their population density and the federal government over rode them and said you can't decide for yourself and our "libertarian" cant decide if he likes it or not.

 

[NinjaKnight]

The people of California voted for their representatives who put in a standard for pollution that they were comfortable with given their population density and the federal government over rode them and said you can't decide for yourself and our "libertarian" cant decide if he likes it or not.

Exactly why this board is a comedy gold mine. You can't pay for this amount of delusional hilarity.

Only slight downside is realizing these literal idiots are allowed to vote. But I try not to think about that too much.

 

[Crazyhole]

The people of California voted for their representatives who put in a standard for pollution that they were comfortable with given their population density and the federal government over rode them and said you can't decide for yourself and our "libertarian" cant decide if he likes it or not.

It's a matter of practicality. Auto manufacturers can't produce different vehicles that are only allowed to be sold in one state, and with California being as populated as they are allowing them to dictate standards that affect the rest of the country isn't a good example of how federalism works and is pretty unnecessary at this point. People all over the country are demanding more fuel efficient vehicles so we don't need California or Texas or even the federal government coming up with arbitrary numbers on how things should look.

The simple truth is that not everybody can drive a Prius, but those who can will buy one, or a car that is comparably efficient because it makes sense economically to do so. The rest of us need to be able to buy a vehicle that suits our needs and by California setting standards that affect everyone it limits our options on what we can buy. I, and many others, NEED a truck that doesn't get great gas mileage due to the nature of what we do. The California emissions standards drive up the costs of these types of vehicles to the point where it now makes more sense to stick with a vehicle that gets 11 mpg instead of buying a new one that gets 20 that could do the same thing.

 

[UCFBS]

I feel it is stupid and self-defeating for Trump to do this ...

Every state should have the right to push innovation as it sees fit. That's the idea of having state autonomy. Although it is funny to see many Democrats now screaming, essentially, "States' Rights!" They very much exist for this reason.

The only aspect where Trump may win in the courts is if the Federal Government can show a Civil Rights issue.

E.g., couple of examples ...

• California makes existing property illegal to use, or makes fines excessive on older vehicles that the right becomes untennable
• California makes laws on vehicles that make cars completely incompatible (exclusive) with other states, instead of just more restrictive

I really do not see where California is 'going wrong' ... yet. If someone can point out something, I'm willing to read it, but I think the administration is in the wrong as of right now.

Environmental policy has always been an union of federal, state and local ordinances and laws.

 

[sk8knight]

I feel it is stupid and self-defeating for Trump to do this ...

Every state should have the right to push innovation as it sees fit. That's the idea of having state autonomy. Although it is funny to see many Democrats now screaming, essentially, "States' Rights!" They very much exist for this reason.

The only aspect where Trump may win in the courts is if the Federal Government can show a Civil Rights issue.

E.g., couple of examples ...

• California makes existing property illegal to use, or makes fines excessive on older vehicles that the right becomes untennable
• California makes laws on vehicles that make cars completely incompatible (exclusive) with other states, instead of just more restrictive

I really do not see where California is 'going wrong' ... yet. If someone can point out something, I'm willing to read it, but I think the administration is in the wrong as of right now.

Environmental policy has always been an union of federal, state and local ordinances and laws.

California has clearly declared their intent to use their legislation to drive the rest of the country. They know quite well that their decisions will have implications far beyond the boundaries of their states. This is when states’ rights abuses federalism. It Is one thing for a state to create its own governmental playground, that’s how the country was set up. Its another when that playground directly causes changes in the commerce of every other state. That is not the way it was meant to work.

It’s not just environment. The Fair Pay to Play legislation is the same thing. They are intentionally creating a discord to force other states and the NCAA to fall in line. Acts like these give California a disproportionate leadership role and undercuts the voting power of every other states’ electorate.

 

[Cubs79]

It's a matter of practicality. Auto manufacturers can't produce different vehicles that are only allowed to be sold in one state, and with California being as populated as they are allowing them to dictate standards that affect the rest of the country isn't a good example of how federalism works and is pretty unnecessary at this point. People all over the country are demanding more fuel efficient vehicles so we don't need California or Texas or even the federal government coming up with arbitrary numbers on how things should look.

The simple truth is that not everybody can drive a Prius, but those who can will buy one, or a car that is comparably efficient because it makes sense economically to do so. The rest of us need to be able to buy a vehicle that suits our needs and by California setting standards that affect everyone it limits our options on what we can buy. I, and many others, NEED a truck that doesn't get great gas mileage due to the nature of what we do. The California emissions standards drive up the costs of these types of vehicles to the point where it now makes more sense to stick with a vehicle that gets 11 mpg instead of buying a new one that gets 20 that could do the same thing.

This is nothing more than a gift to oil companies, and it's silly to pretend otherwise. California has had lower emissions standards than other states for decades, and it hasnt impacted your ability to drive a truck one bit.

 

[Crazyhole]

This is nothing more than a gift to oil companies, and it's silly to pretend otherwise. California has had lower emissions standards than other states for decades, and it hasnt impacted your ability to drive a truck one bit.

It's affected my ability to buy one. The prices on new trucks have gone up significantly due to higher emissions standards, especially in the last 10 years.

 

[Cubs79]

California has clearly declared their intent to use their legislation to drive the rest of the country. They know quite well that their decisions will have implications far beyond the boundaries of their states. This is when states’ rights abuses federalism. It Is one thing for a state to create its own governmental playground, that’s how the country was set up. Its another when that playground directly causes changes in the commerce of every other state. That is not the way it was meant to work.

It’s not just environment. The Fair Pay to Play legislation is the same thing. They are intentionally creating a discord to force other states and the NCAA to fall in line. Acts like these give California a disproportionate leadership role and undercuts the voting power of every other states’ electorate.

California's intent is so the state doesnt end up being a smog infested mess like it was in the 60s and 70s.

 

[goodknightfl]

It doesn't matter, the world ends in 10 years anyways. eat, drink, carbon up the air and party down.

 

[Cubs79]

It's affected my ability to buy one. The prices on new trucks have gone up significantly due to higher emissions standards, especially in the last 10 years.

The price of lots of things have gone up in the last 10 years including housing. And cars in general are simply much better products than they have been in the past, so it isnt just because of emissions. Of course lower emission standards also mean you will be paying more in gas since you will have to fill up more often.

California has had an emissions waiver since 1968. This isnt a new thing. Sure, the standards change, but they change gradually over time. If this was so impactful on car prices, then why have you only noticed it in the last 10 years, and not the previous 40 years before that, when California started setting their own standard?