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Two more tankers attacked off Iran's coast

Her proposal is to study reparations and its potential impacts. There is nothing specific in her proposal beyond conducting studies.
So the mainstream Democrat position is to study whether or not we should give money to people who are 6-8 generations removed from slavery. Yeah, you guys really should run with that.
 
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So the mainstream Democrat position is to study whether or not we should give money to people who are 6-8 generations removed from slavery. Yeah, you guys really should run with that.
Curious who are we alienating here? Need it on record.
 
Curious who are we alienating here? Need it on record.
Pretty much everyone who pays taxes, and anyone who doesn't pay taxes that wouldn't receive any benefits from it. Would a millionaire that came from a family that had slavery in their history get reparations? Would a person whos family lived in abject poverty in the 1840s but wasn't a slave get reparations? How about the people who relocated to Liberia? Do we owe every person in that country? How about the freedmen who moved west and benefitted from the land-grant and homestead projects of the 1860s through the 1890s? Did they already receive their reparations since they got land for free? Its just a silly concept with so many holes in it that it isn't even worth studying.
 
Pretty much everyone who pays taxes, and anyone who doesn't pay taxes that wouldn't receive any benefits from it. Would a millionaire that came from a family that had slavery in their history get reparations? Would a person whos family lived in abject poverty in the 1840s but wasn't a slave get reparations? How about the people who relocated to Liberia? Do we owe every person in that country? How about the freedmen who moved west and benefitted from the land-grant and homestead projects of the 1860s through the 1890s? Did they already receive their reparations since they got land for free? Its just a silly concept with so many holes in it that it isn't even worth studying.
Did they already receive their reparations since they got land for free? Nope. The 40 acres and a mule proposed by the Republicans never moved on.
And slave owners were actually paid reparations for having to lose them.

What Americans Think About Reparations And Other Race-Related Questions
https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...reparations-and-other-race-related-questions/
 
So the mainstream Democrat position is to study whether or not we should give money to people who are 6-8 generations removed from slavery. Yeah, you guys really should run with that.

You just pointed out all the candidates that are running with it.
 
Did they already receive their reparations since they got land for free? Nope. The 40 acres and a mule proposed by the Republicans never moved on.
And slave owners were actually paid reparations for having to lose them.

What Americans Think About Reparations And Other Race-Related Questions
https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...reparations-and-other-race-related-questions/
Uh, the homestead act most definitely did happen and there were former slaves or their descendants who were part of that. I'm not saying that all of them benefitted from it, but some did. Are they still eligible for reparations? How about the descendants of slaves who did really well for themselves? Can there be a demarcation for who deserves and who doesn't deserve reparations? And if I am not the descendant of someone who had anything to do with slavery, why should my money go to fund it?
 
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So the mainstream Democrat position is to study whether or not we should give money to people who are 6-8 generations removed from slavery. Yeah, you guys really should run with that.
well see how many of them push for it in the debates. i hope they do.
 
Uh, the homestead act most definitely did happen and there were former slaves or their descendants who were part of that.
Opportunity and reparation are not the same.
Slaveowners got reparation for lost slaves and probably had the same opportunites to move out west too.
See the difference?
 
Nope, one gives a person the chance to live up to their potential and the other gives them the chance to buy a 2014 Corolla.
and you complain about being taken out of context lol..

Not only that but comparing a slaves contribution to a 2014 Corolla.

I cant say im surprised. Eh. Strike that. I like debating you otherwise.
 
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Lol Jeremy Hunt’s smackdown of this anti-Semitic asshole is basically what can be said for the Sanders crowd and lefties still pushing conspiracy theories

 
and you complain about being taken out of context lol..

Not only that but comparing a slaves contribution to a 2014 Corolla.

I cant say im surprised. Eh. Strike that. I like debating you otherwise.
Well seriously, reparations would likely only be a few thousand bucks at best. Not enough to make a significant improvement in anyone's life.
 
lmao fukc off with your reparations, I didn't do shit.

Here's the problem with the left's view on race relations. My generation grew up in fully integrated schools, playing sports with people of all colors, adoring Will Smith on Fresh Prince, idolizing Michael Jordan and singing along to Snoop Dog.

A generation that is fully tolerant towards people of color, we were not raised under Jim Crow or embroiled in the debate of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Hell, some of us watched OJ Simpson run from the cops then get away with murdering 2 people.

What did we get in return? We got sucker punched into being made to believe we're guilty of transgressions that took place nearly 100 years before the holocaust. We're being told that through this conspiracy of "implicit bias" that we are all inherently racists from the day we're born. You don't know my life, you don't know anybody's life.

You gonna tell the poor white kid whose father walked out on him and mother died of an opiate overdose that because of their "privilege" they owe somebody money for something that happened 150 years ago? You should be ashamed to have the gall to assume so much about a singular group of people, while trying to guilt them of the same thing.

Eat shit. All we ever wanted was to be left alone.
 
Well seriously, reparations would likely only be a few thousand bucks at best. Not enough to make a significant improvement in anyone's life.

I’d be curious to know how they intend to deal with assessing invoices to whities whose family came over in the early 20th century and weren’t even on this continent when slavery was occurring.
 
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Iran just shot down a US drone in international airspace if anyone cares that they’re now targeting our military assets

I now wait for the usual suspects to tell me how this could be another false flag operation or that we err in fact flying over Tehran
 
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Iran just shot down a US drone in international airspace if anyone cares that they’re now targeting our military assets

I now wait for the usual suspects to tell me how this could be another false flag operation or that we err in fact flying over Tehran

A global hawk is a big ass plane. They also took a shot at a reaper the other day. Time to stop d!cking around with distractions and start taking things more seriously.

Edit: heard it was a Triton. The Navy’s bigger version of the Global Hawk. Both of these are high altitude aircraft. Iran has no way of knowing what it was if it was flying at altitude. It could have easily been an airliner. Dangerous turn of events. The Iranian government needs to get the Revolutionary Guard under control.
 
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Crazy idea: maybe if this administration didn't tell 10,000+ documented lies, including such insanely easy things to debunk like the crowd size or weather at Trump's inauguration, we would be inclined to believe them a little more?

Why should we trust him on this stuff that requires faith, when they have proven to be 100% willing to lie about petty pointless stuff that we can observe to be absolutely untrue?
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Iran has shot down a drone over international waters and the first leftie reply is to whine and cry about Trump. Incredible.

Iran could sink a US Navy vessel and kill everyone on board and I feel like certain people here would blame Trump and state that he "made" Iran do it.
 
A global hawk is a big ass plane. They also took a shot at a reaper the other day. Time to stop d!cking around with distractions and start taking things more seriously.

Edit: heard it was a Triton. The Navy’s bigger version of the Global Hawk. Both of these are high altitude aircraft. Iran has no way of knowing what it was if it was flying at altitude. It could have easily been an airliner. Dangerous turn of events. The Iranian government needs to get the Revolutionary Guard under control.
My first impression of this is that the Ayatollah had to make that call. It's long since been known that the end-goal for them is based on their religious belief that if they can start ww3 then the Mahdi will re-emerge and they will be fulfilling prophecy. From a political or economic standpoint they know they have nothing to gain from this. It has to be religious zealotry behind it.
 
My first impression of this is that the Ayatollah had to make that call. It's long since been known that the end-goal for them is based on their religious belief that if they can start ww3 then the Mahdi will re-emerge and they will be fulfilling prophecy. From a political or economic standpoint they know they have nothing to gain from this. It has to be religious zealotry behind it.

A founding and enduring core principle of their Islamic Revolution that is still true today is that Israel is illegitimate and must be eradicated as a Jewish state. It's the reason that they propped up and support Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Hamas, etc.

Wishing for the eradication of an entire state full of Jews can only be based upon the most intensive religious hatred possible.
 
My first impression of this is that the Ayatollah had to make that call. It's long since been known that the end-goal for them is based on their religious belief that if they can start ww3 then the Mahdi will re-emerge and they will be fulfilling prophecy. From a political or economic standpoint they know they have nothing to gain from this. It has to be religious zealotry behind it.

I agree. Especially concerning since we have another religious but job hell bent on bringing about Armageddon since that is a requirement for his crazy religion's end time rapture. Pence is not fit for duty, and it's terrifying he and the Ayatollah are in power.
 
I need proof that Iran shot down a drone

Can someone please deliver the wreckage to my house with their “supreme leader’s” signed order to shoot it down?

:joy:
 
A founding and enduring core principle of their Islamic Revolution that is still true today is that Israel is illegitimate and must be eradicated as a Jewish state. It's the reason that they propped up and support Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Hamas, etc.

Wishing for the eradication of an entire state full of Jews can only be based upon the most intensive religious hatred possible.
I have a couple of Muslim friends and I've been meaning to ask them about this. It seems odd that the Koran has so many references to the Jews but in 600 AD the Jews weren't really much of a power or threat to anyone. Up to that point, the Jews hadn't killed or enslaved a single Muslim follower. I could see how Muhammed or his followers would have had serious problems with the Romans, but why the Jews? It just seems like a strange essential doctrine for a religion to hold on to. It's not like they all of a sudden decided to hate Israel when the country was founded, its a basic tenet of their faith that predates the formation of Israel by 1300 years.
 
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Iran is definitely a problem. But we are dangerously close to war right now. But the American people are not going to want it.

Trump needs to be careful. It’s not a time for big loud boasts on Twitter. And it’s times like this where I wish we had a secretary of defense.
 
Iran is definitely a problem. But we are dangerously close to war right now. But the American people are not going to want it.

Trump needs to be careful. It’s not a time for big loud boasts on Twitter. And it’s times like this where I wish we had a secretary of defense.
I definitely don't want war, but I wouldnt be opposed to the US responding with the total destruction of the Iranian navy. If it were me, I would give them an ultimatum: attack another foreign vessel and you won't have a single ship left to sail around the straights. Then tell the world that we will provide security for any ship moving through there, even China. Isolate Iran from the rest of the world and then respond to any aggression with 100 times what they perpetrate.
 
Iran is definitely a problem. But we are dangerously close to war right now. But the American people are not going to want it.

Trump needs to be careful. It’s not a time for big loud boasts on Twitter. And it’s times like this where I wish we had a secretary of defense.

The acting SecDef is a West Point grad with about as much policy experience as you could want in a SecDef. He's far more qualified than a guy like Chuck Hagel that Obama inserted during his years.

Why is it somehow the US is the one who has to be careful here? We asserted economic sanctions on this terrorist nation, as we've done to nations across the world, and they chose to respond by blowing things up which easily could have killed tons of people.

Tim Kaine just went on NPR and made the extremely dangerous assertion that economic sanctions can be held accountable if Iran or any other nation responds with military force. In other words, he's blaming the US and Trump. If that were to become precedent and adopted by nations we have under sanction then the world would become massively more dangerous overnight.
 
The acting SecDef is a West Point grad with about as much policy experience as you could want in a SecDef. He's far more qualified than a guy like Chuck Hagel that Obama inserted during his years.

Why is it somehow the US is the one who has to be careful here? We asserted economic sanctions on this terrorist nation, as we've done to nations across the world, and they chose to respond by blowing things up which easily could have killed tons of people.

Tim Kaine just went on NPR and made the extremely dangerous assertion that economic sanctions can be held accountable if Iran or any other nation responds with military force. In other words, he's blaming the US and Trump. If that were to become precedent and adopted by nations we have under sanction then the world would become massively more dangerous overnight.

It’s a game of chicken. They blew up a drone in order to see what kind of response it would illicit. To see how Trump would react. And to test what U.S. allies would do behind us.

Do we respond militarily where full out war is risked? Do we try something cyber? More sanctions? The U.S. is in the driver’s seat and should use caution. No one wants a war, especially Trump. It would likely split his base in half if we get into another conflict in the Middle East.
 
It’s a game of chicken. They blew up a drone in order to see what kind of response it would illicit. To see how Trump would react. And to test what U.S. allies would do behind us.

Do we respond militarily where full out war is risked? Do we try something cyber? More sanctions? The U.S. is in the driver’s seat and should use caution. No one wants a war, especially Trump. It would likely split his base in half if we get into another conflict in the Middle East.

I think the better question is this: can we allow this notion that any sanctioned country is justified in using a military response to be perpetuated? The first thing that must happen is to have Democrats like Tim Kaine to stop giving cover to the Iranians and blaming the President when they respond to sanctions with military action.
 
It’s a game of chicken. They blew up a drone in order to see what kind of response it would illicit. To see how Trump would react. And to test what U.S. allies would do behind us.

Do we respond militarily where full out war is risked? Do we try something cyber? More sanctions? The U.S. is in the driver’s seat and should use caution. No one wants a war, especially Trump. It would likely split his base in half if we get into another conflict in the Middle East.
How long do you let that game of chicken go on? And no, his base wouldn't split over a military action. They want to see resolve and feel like Trump is a badass. If he destroyed Iran's navy it would go WAY further than economic sanctions. Trumps base supporters want to live vicariously through him and satisfy their own desires to be the toughest guy in the bar. He has the power they wish they had and want to see him use it.
 
How long do you let that game of chicken go on? And no, his base wouldn't split over a military action. They want to see resolve and feel like Trump is a badass. If he destroyed Iran's navy it would go WAY further than economic sanctions. Trumps base supporters want to live vicariously through him and satisfy their own desires to be the toughest guy in the bar. He has the power they wish they had and want to see him use it.

Do you honestly believe that if more American blood and treasure his spent on another war in the Middle East his entire base will be behind him? I don’t. It would take a lot more than a drive being blown up for Americans to get behind this.
 
Do you honestly believe that if more American blood and treasure his spent on another war in the Middle East his entire base will be behind him? I don’t. It would take a lot more than a drive being blown up for Americans to get behind this.

Trump doesn't want this and that's not what we'll get. Which is why he's been trying to bolster our actual allies in the Gulf region to deal with Iran, if needed, on their own. And yet even that is now getting pushback from Democrats.

But I think we should remember that the Iranians killed a huge number of Americans in Iraq. They have been attacking and killing Americans for years now.
 
Do you honestly believe that if more American blood and treasure his spent on another war in the Middle East his entire base will be behind him? I don’t. It would take a lot more than a drive being blown up for Americans to get behind this.
His base, and pardon my characterization of them, is about 5-10% of the population who are generally uneducated, outdoorsy types who like guns and beer and hate taxes. To them, more aggression is better. There is probably about 20% who will never like him no matter what he does. Then there is about 30% who really don't care that much because they are just living their lives. The remaining 40% or so will swing one way or the other but less than half of them are really focused on foreign affairs. As long as they see their own financial situation being stable they will go with the status quo. That isn't his base, it's people who only see their own lives.
 
religious but job hell bent on bringing about Armageddon since
tumblr_inline_n4kp7iy1Bv1rqyxnz.png
 
So in the US/Iran conflict, people always call Iran the bad guys, but let’s reflect on what the US has done to Iran. These are all FACTS!!!!!

1. The CIA helped lead a 1953 coup that brought down Iranian Prime Minister Muhammad Mossadegh, fueling a surge of nationalism which culminated in the 1979 Iranian Revolution and poisoning U.S.-Iran relations into the 21st century.

2. When Saddam Hussein/Irag INVADED/WAGED WAR against Iran, the US joined forces to help out Saddam by giving several billion dollars' worth of economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology, non-U.S. origin weaponry, military intelligence, and special operations training.

3. The US knew Iraq was going to use chemical weapons against Iran and did nothing about it. The Iraqis used mustard gas and sarin prior to four major offensives in early 1988 that relied on U.S. satellite imagery, maps, and other intelligence.

4. The United states accidentally shot down Iran Air Flight 655. This was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on July 3,1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed, and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed. The US paid a very big settlement to the families.

Conclusion – Research your history in these US conflicts and you will realize that we aren’t always the good guys. You think Iran just hates us for no reason? They have NEVER invaded another country in their history. In this current conflict, it’s a clear set up by the US. They had a drone that was already in the area and probably did the damage to those tankers. Iraq has nothing to gain from damaging a Japanese ship when they are trying to work with Japan. Feel free to look up anything I posted here. These are all facts that may hurt some of your feelings.
 
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So in the US/Iran conflict, people always call Iran the bad guys, but let’s reflect on what the US has done to Iran. These are all FACTS!!!!!

1. The CIA helped lead a 1953 coup that brought down Iranian Prime Minister Muhammad Mossadegh, fueling a surge of nationalism which culminated in the 1979 Iranian Revolution and poisoning U.S.-Iran relations into the 21st century.

2. When Saddam Hussein/Irag INVADED/WAGED WAR against Iran, the US joined forces to help out Saddam by giving several billion dollars' worth of economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology, non-U.S. origin weaponry, military intelligence, and special operations training.

3. The US knew Iraq was going to use chemical weapons against Iran and did nothing about it. The Iraqis used mustard gas and sarin prior to four major offensives in early 1988 that relied on U.S. satellite imagery, maps, and other intelligence.

4. The United states accidentally shot down Iran Air Flight 655. This was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on July 3,1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed, and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed. The US paid a very big settlement to the families.

Conclusion – Research your history in these US conflicts and you will realize that we aren’t always the good guys. You think Iran just hates us for no reason? They have NEVER invaded another country in their history. In this current conflict, it’s a clear set up by the US. They had a drone that was already in the area and probably did the damage to those tankers. Iraq has nothing to gain from damaging a Japanese ship when they are trying to work with Japan.

Lol this folks is what propaganda looks like. Iran has invaded most of the Middle East with their proxies and yet this guy actually just said this.

When the Iranians codify that Israel should not exist where does that fall on the spectrum of “being bad”?
 
So in the US/Iran conflict, people always call Iran the bad guys, but let’s reflect on what the US has done to Iran. These are all FACTS!!!!!

1. The CIA helped lead a 1953 coup that brought down Iranian Prime Minister Muhammad Mossadegh, fueling a surge of nationalism which culminated in the 1979 Iranian Revolution and poisoning U.S.-Iran relations into the 21st century.

2. When Saddam Hussein/Irag INVADED/WAGED WAR against Iran, the US joined forces to help out Saddam by giving several billion dollars' worth of economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology, non-U.S. origin weaponry, military intelligence, and special operations training.

3. The US knew Iraq was going to use chemical weapons against Iran and did nothing about it. The Iraqis used mustard gas and sarin prior to four major offensives in early 1988 that relied on U.S. satellite imagery, maps, and other intelligence.

4. The United states accidentally shot down Iran Air Flight 655. This was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on July 3,1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed, and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed. The US paid a very big settlement to the families.

Conclusion – Research your history in these US conflicts and you will realize that we aren’t always the good guys. You think Iran just hates us for no reason? They have NEVER invaded another country in their history. In this current conflict, it’s a clear set up by the US. They had a drone that was already in the area and probably did the damage to those tankers. Iraq has nothing to gain from damaging a Japanese ship when they are trying to work with Japan. Feel free to look up anything I posted here. These are all facts that may hurt some of your feelings.

Brave of you to share this on this board. If you check the history of the WC, you'll realize its primarily right wingers and white nationalists. Some of them are so bad, even the right wingers wanted some of the right wing extremists banned.

There's probably, maybe five lefties on this board and never Trumpers. This is Trumps board!

Welcome!. :)
 
So in the US/Iran conflict, people always call Iran the bad guys, but let’s reflect on what the US has done to Iran. These are all FACTS!!!!!
1. The CIA helped lead a 1953 coup that brought down Iranian Prime Minister Muhammad Mossadegh, fueling a surge of nationalism which culminated in the 1979 Iranian Revolution and poisoning U.S.-Iran relations into the 21st century.
Yes, and the US should apologize for helping the British in doing this.

It's why we reversed our view in the '56 Suez Incident -- crossing the British, French and Israelis -- which is when the US became defacto guarantor of the region's stability -- even though we don't need Middle East oil any more.

2. When Saddam Hussein/Irag INVADED/WAGED WAR against Iran, the US joined forces to help out Saddam by giving several billion dollars' worth of economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology, non-U.S. origin weaponry, military intelligence, and special operations training.
France and Germany did far more, as did others --- Singapore being #1. The same is true in '95, when France and Germany blocked UN resolutions, only for things to be uncovered in '96 ... and the documentation found in '03 proving both France and Germany were undermining the UN against Iraq from '92-95 for self-interest.

3. The US knew Iraq was going to use chemical weapons against Iran and did nothing about it. The Iraqis used mustard gas and sarin prior to four major offensives in early 1988 that relied on U.S. satellite imagery, maps, and other intelligence.
No, the US condemned it, as did others. UN Resolutions 582 and 612 were 15-0-0, everyone voted for it, including the US, in the Security Council.

There is a lot of evidence that it was not just the US, but other countries were involved. It wasn't as much satellite data either, but actual, direct, aerial recon. Iraq had a lot of capabilities from the Soviets, who were 'playing both sides.'

4. The United states accidentally shot down Iran Air Flight 655. This was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on July 3,1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed, and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed. The US paid a very big settlement to the families.
This is because Iran had attacked US commercial, flagged and even military vessels.

After the USS Stark incident with Iraq, the US Navy was determined not to let that happen again -- Iran or Iraq!

Conclusion – Research your history in these US conflicts and you will realize that we aren’t always the good guys. You think Iran just hates us for no reason? They have NEVER invaded another country in their history. In this current conflict, it’s a clear set up by the US. They had a drone that was already in the area and probably did the damage to those tankers. Iraq has nothing to gain from damaging a Japanese ship when they are trying to work with Japan. Feel free to look up anything I posted here. These are all facts that may hurt some of your feelings.
Seriously dude, this is what I expect out of the US News Media. Do your homework because other than #1, this is all total BS.

Also research why the US 'reflagged' ships in the Gulf during the Iran-Iraq war, and why the US protects Japanese ships. Because 'foreign, stateless actors' that are supplied by Iran and Syria only exist because they are supplied by Iran and Syria. This isn't the first time Iran has done this.

The US Navy is the defacto guarantor of free transit in the Gulf, ever since both the UK and France had to reduce their militaries after the '56 Suez cross by the US.

Frankly, since we don't need Middle East oil, and won't for another 100+ years, I think it's time the EU and others 'pay their own way,' as they need it -- not us.

Pull out and leave everyone be. Let them deal with the Iranians. Let the EU give them what they want while Iran plans to nuke Israel and the Saudis. Of course, the Saudis will likely pre-emptively strike instead.
 
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Brave of you to share this on this board. If you check the history of the WC, you'll realize its primarily right wingers and white nationalists. Some of them are so bad, even the right wingers wanted some of the right wing extremists banned.

There's probably, maybe five lefties on this board and never Trumpers. This is Trumps board!

Welcome!. :)

lol I forgot that anyone who disagrees with you snowflakes is a "nationalist".

I guess being lazy is easier than being right.
 
Brave of you to share this on this board. If you check the history of the WC, you'll realize its primarily right wingers and white nationalists. Some of them are so bad, even the right wingers wanted some of the right wing extremists banned.

There's probably, maybe five lefties on this board and never Trumpers. This is Trumps board!

Welcome!. :)
Don't forget the fact wielding Libertarian here. But my facts are TL;DR, right? They go utterly unaddressed as well. Makes sense.
 
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