#WeAreUnited : Pac12 players unite against Covid liability waivers and racial injustice
- Thread starter CFKnight
- Start date
Most of what I've read about their demands are fair. It will be painful for CFB and many schools but the future will certainly bring more health care and compensation to the athletes.
Selfishly, I've been against paying them for a long time because I like amateur sports. But if they all want to be paid instead of getting tuition, room, board, tutoring, etc. there's no reason not to make them some form of student-employees. Who cares if they just have to pay it back. They don't need to be babied by people in power who are "taking care of" them. Give them the freedom to make mistakes and let the irresponsible ones fall off.
This would bring CFB into the 20th century haha.
Selfishly, I've been against paying them for a long time because I like amateur sports. But if they all want to be paid instead of getting tuition, room, board, tutoring, etc. there's no reason not to make them some form of student-employees. Who cares if they just have to pay it back. They don't need to be babied by people in power who are "taking care of" them. Give them the freedom to make mistakes and let the irresponsible ones fall off.
This would bring CFB into the 20th century haha.
1. Free education (with tutoring)
2. Free room and board (and food)
3. Stipend
4. Free education (with tutoring)
5. Top notch training, coaching, nutrition, and competition
6. Chance to network and be connected with people minions like me would likely not get the opportunity to be introduced to (if they take advantage of it)
7. Free education (with tutoring)
8. Almost unparalleled opportunity for leadership and teamwork skills
9. If you have an ounce of humanity in your bones, establishing relationships with other athletes, coaches and mentors who are important people in your life, and perhaps throughout your life.
10. Free education (with tutoring)
11. Discipline
12. Resume....resume....resume...
13. Free education (with tutoring)
Etc....
Sure, they have a ton of responsibilities and it's a tough way to go through school but I would have killed to play college athletics...in any sport.
I played competitive soccer growing up (played left forward for my high school) but was not good enough to play at the college level. I was lucky enough, though, to be a bright futures scholarship recipient for my first 2 years (before I lost it). It took me 5 years to get my engineering degree (it required 142 credits to get the degree when I was there). I lived about 30 miles away and worked almost every Friday and Sat night. Result = graduating with no debt. I got about zero of "the college experience". I never went to a UCF football game until after I graduated.
That's easy street. My dad worked full time during the day, went to school full time at night, and he had two toddlers at home. He played basketball in high school (just a set shooter). If he was offered the opportunity for a full ride scholarship and be a student-athlete instead of the path he had to take he would have jumped all over it.
My point is a lot of people have a tough route to get through college. Being a student-athlete is just another route.
I just don't get how football players think they are any different from people playing volleyball, tennis, softball, golf, cheerleaders, basketball, soccer, etc... It is surely the more physical sport but all those other kids train and compete just the same. If it were not for college football producing so much revenue they wouldn't have a reason to gripe. I don't know how schools (under the guise of the NCAA) could prioritize one set of athletes over the others anyways.
I think your last statement is the most relevant. How can schools prioritize one set of athletes over another? They cannot.
Maybe they should go play for the XFL.
Because college girls are hot and attracted to athletes. #theyare...um...tittied?
I left out, "hot women like football players"....I thought that was too obvious.
Yeah, right. I actually thought the XFL games were pretty entertaining before it abruptly ended. I want to be clear. I'm not saying they should shut up or go away or anything like that. It's their choice to speak up and ask for whatever they want. I'm just saying I would jump all over the opportunity if I had it, knowing how it sets you up for life after college.
Repopulating our species is probably the number one biological motivator for a young man 18-24. Hell, even when a man hits his 40s it’s still up there, right behind the drive to get you wife and kids to be quiet and not touch the thermostat.
There is a simple answer, End college sports, and athlete schollies. Give paying students their athletic fees back.
I think that is the strategy XFL could and should be going for. Become a feeder for the NFL, NCAA football was at a crossroads before COVID and everything else going on in this country.
No football athlete particularly at a major program is under the illusion that the coaching staff, fans, or even university as a whole cares about their education beyond being a positive statistic in some metric to show they are going to class and passing. Everyone rather they take pointless courses that is easy so they can focus 90% of their time on football.
They can ask for whatever they want. They can also choose to not play, if they want.
If some athletic departments pay. Then they will have to pay everyone. Including Olympic sports.
I read a headline that Dwayne Johnson and an investor group bought the XFL. Could we get them to move to the Bounce House? The only reason a minor league doesn't exist is because of CFB. College football needs to turn itself into a minor league or college teams will be relegated to FCS status in average fans eyes when a different minor league gains traction and all the athletes go there.
The truth is that coming out of high school 99% of these kids have no real value as a professional football player. They are not big enough or developed enough. Even if they were, the number of these kids that could actually make some kind of wage would be extremely low. College football has developed as a result of this fact. If there was a minor league, nobody would watch it. If there was a market for such a thing then there would be a league. Players would be paid less than minor league baseball players. There might be a few that could be valuable and still only a tiny percentage of them would actually make the NFL.
So instead of having a minor league where kids get paid on some basis of their value, college football distributes that value equally to ALL players. So players with even low value are getting the equivalent of a $50,000- $150,000 (depending upon the school) salary for 4 years coming out of high school. Most of them never had a shot at professional careers but will get the training and education necessary to take their shot.
College Football programs take the product and in turn make money from it to support the rest of the sports programs. Very few athletic dept make much money. Most, like UCF are subsidized by athletic fees and lose money every year.
Players are an important part of the equation. Just not as important as they think. If all the top players boycotted the game would go on. I would watch UCF football if there was not a single scholarship player. The Ivy League somehow manages.
So instead of having a minor league where kids get paid on some basis of their value, college football distributes that value equally to ALL players. So players with even low value are getting the equivalent of a $50,000- $150,000 (depending upon the school) salary for 4 years coming out of high school. Most of them never had a shot at professional careers but will get the training and education necessary to take their shot.
College Football programs take the product and in turn make money from it to support the rest of the sports programs. Very few athletic dept make much money. Most, like UCF are subsidized by athletic fees and lose money every year.
Players are an important part of the equation. Just not as important as they think. If all the top players boycotted the game would go on. I would watch UCF football if there was not a single scholarship player. The Ivy League somehow manages.
Great stuff. I would still go to UCF games as well. College football would adjust and move on.
One thing being left out of this discussion is the fact that if there was a “minor” league college kids could skip to, these kids would also be competing against guys that are older, maybe were in the NFL and are looking for a second chance, guys that make practice squads but can’t seem to crack the 52 man roster, guys that were just flat overlooked, etc... You could potentially have 30 year old football players playing in the “minor” league, for example (just like baseball)...taking up roster spots. There wouldn’t be a lot of college players that could even transition over to a “minor” league and be impactful....not straight out of high school. So few players ever transition from the Arena League, CFL, XFL, etc... to the NFL. It may not be the gem product people envision. I mean, who watches minor league baseball...seriously. People may like it but will fans have passion for it at the level fans have passion for the NFL or college football. Just my belief but in 20 years of being a season ticket holder at UCF and also going to a lot of NFL games, I’d say the passion from college fans exceeds even that of most NFL fans. Because a large percentage actually invested themselves in the college they support. It’s not just some team where you live. There is also the pageantry of the sport. It’s not just a team, it’s extended family. They are an extension of what helped make you who you are, even if your team sucks.
I think that was true for decades, but not in the age of big money CFB. Coaches leave, players transfer, the percentage of athletes and coaching staff that is actually dedicated to a particular university is declining by the year. The larger UCF gets the more and more it will be like that, so while the older fans reminisce of the old days, the new crop of players/coaches/fans see it as we must win, must make money, if not we will move on.
More so you see fans turning on players if they have a particular belief or view that may conflict with the fan. Personally I watch sports, I don't care what they believe in even if I don't agree with it. Doesn't change my opinion and it shouldn't change theirs.
Wonder if college athletes realize how little minor league players actually get paid? How many are now cleaning pools because they don’t have a degree and made $100 K total in 10 years trying to make it. Or less if they got hurt and were a late round pick.
Why is it assumed all football players who go to college, a) get a degree, b) get a degree in a useful area of study, c) actually focused on classes and learned. Every year there is a new scandal about athletes not attending classes, cheating, majoring in nonsense majors.
Also college degrees is not as valuable as they once were, everyone has them. Many people who didn't spend majority of their time playing football, actually focused on their education but chose a bad field of study, end up making low salaries or working in some other field that had nothing to do with their education.
Trip to college for many of these kids is not some lottery. Mostly because the institutions, put athletics first, education last. Football Alumni/fans would not care if classes were cancelled, as long as football was still being played. It was said on this very board.
Make a bubble for all schools to play on one campus, shut the school down for students/classes, they don't need professors. But we still emphasize the student in student athlete, just not the 6 months of the year for Fall and Winter.. and sometime in the spring.
Not everyone who goes to college a ) gets a degree, b) gets a degree in a useful area of study, c) is actually focused on classes and learns. Many fail out or quit. Why would athletes be different? If they cheat, fail etc. that is on them. While they have athletic obligations they also have tutors to help them, mandatory study halls, special guidance counselors, coaches monitoring their progress, everything necessary to be successful as a student. 94% of UCF players graduate and their average GPA is higher than many of you probably had. Higher than I had. Many get secondary degrees while playing.
If the degree is not valuable, don't go to college. Those who are good enough often leave for the NFL early anyway. But for the other 92% of football players (and millions of college students) the degree is pretty important. As for value, ask what it is worth to the student paying his own way through and takes on debt. Players could go to tech school; go to work; do lots of stuff other than go to college. But they end up with a degree; and no student debt, networking opportunities all while playing a game they love to play. I am willing to bet most of them would play whether they got a scholarship or not . That's a pretty good start on life.
For many players football is their only opportunity to go to college. Certainly their only way to go without incurring debt. So yeah, for many it is like the lottery. What they do with that opportunity as a student is up to them. Some People who win the actual lottery end up broke and miserable. Choices in life.
Last edited:
You missed his point. Players/coaches come and go, they always have, but the connection to the team stays the same for the fan. It is different for the pros where people want go to see "the best of the best" compete. College fandom is more about the program and being true to your school and less about the players.
Truth. No doubt fans love the current players but we're always looking at that next batch. If a player wants to make demands, let them sit. We'll be on that next 22.
It’s not assumed. But don’t we lead most teams in degrees received by football players? We don’t have multiple underclass men getting drafted every year. Most of them get a degree. If they do most of them get a decent wage. Trust me if a player you’ve watched in tv but wasn’t good enough to make it to NFL, but applied and meets qualifications, he gets the job. I’d hire Tacko at whatever company I work for and he meets minimum criteria. If they don’t work out you move on. But being an athlete in college who gets a degree is pretty valuable. Helps if you’re Googable and not much bad just comes up. Just you playing in games.
Your are viewing it from one school's perspective, do you think in general that Universities are focusing on education first athletics second for their football players. Would you honestly say more than 50% of NCAA programs sacrifice their teams performance in order to make sure their players education is priority or sacrifice education to make sure team performance is priority. Coaches get millions to win, they get small bonuses to graduate players. There is so much shadiness around college football in terms of money and recruiting, but once they are enrolled... everything is on the up and up?
There is schools with Graduation rates in the 70s and lower.
There is a difference in liking college football for the game, and liking the entire system. The system is broken on many levels.
Last edited:
For the medical expenses part, I really don't know. Do players who have injuries while playing in college get covered down the road? Say if someone had multiple concussions, and post graduation suffers seizures, is the former player on their own? Had Milton lost his leg or required subsequent surgeries 4-5 years from now, does he get assistance or is that just something he and his family have to pay for. And while I know people will bring up boosters and gofundme as alternatives, but I am guessing there is players that are not fan favorites, that do not have people lining up to support their medical expenses for the rest of their lives.
Regardless of why you are at college, it's up to each person to succeed or fail. It's pressure but it's pressure each and every college student faces. If instead of going to college they became, for example, a welder, they would have to get certified then perform at their job. It's not the school's responsibility to care about you (per say). Just like a job, you get out of it what you can, and the job gets out of you what is required. The result for a company is work completed and $ collected for product/service. The result for the worker is gaining experience and collecting compensation. Nobody told me to wake up every day, drive over to campus, study and/or take classes all day (even if I didn't "need" to go over) for 5 years. I just had to build that discipline and structure into myself because nobody else was going to do it for me. What football does for the players, at least, is provides them discipline and structure they may not have had prior to college. I'm certain the "time" demands is an eye-opening experience for incoming freshman football players (or for any incoming college athlete).
As for medical expenses after leaving school, the colleges probably don't do squat. You are no longer there. These are legal questions I don't know anything about. I doubt the student-athletes are deemed "employees". If they were, they could sue and get compensation. Since I've never heard of any student suing a school for injuries (although I'm certain it has happened many, many times) my guess is that it has rarely ever been successful. I think it's warranted to have money set aside for kids that get legitimately injured while training for, or participating in a school-sanctioned sport, that have lingering effects that need to be addressed. I don't think that applies to the academic side, though, unless the kid can prove the school "submarined" their ability to get a degree, which I think would be very hard to prove as many, many other student athletes that started the same time you did (many probably with the same "interdisciplinary studies" degree) did graduate. Then there is the question of who gets sued, the school or the athletic department? In UCF's case they are separate entities, I think. Lawyers and corporations are crafty.
That's where I am going with this, the demand from the program is on the athletic side. Most athletes particular those that didn't excel in HS, are not going to excel in college either because they know their standing on the team and in the university is based on how successful they are on the field and not in the classroom. More likely to spend 3 hours at the gym daily, than 30 minutes in the books.
Also I feel like fans look at college football players like the Dad's in Varsity Blues, about how lucky they are and they don't know how good they have it. Football players have a grueling schedule, get beaten up regularly, and many go on to have physical effects that last a lifetime, and for some they believe this is the only way they can be successful in life. So even if they are told they could and likely have CTE and it will impact their life, they move forward. We know this is a fact for NFL players now, we don't know to what extent this is happening for kids that played 3-4 years of college football. What we do know like NFL, college players are faster, bigger, stronger, and hit harder than ever before.
I am looking at it from the entire system perspective. I think all schools focus on education. I think some more than others but that is to be expected and students can choose what type of program they want to go to. IF they care about their education they can choose UCF over some other less focused school. And all the graduation rates and GPAs are readily available online. These are not children to hold their hands and wipe their noses. They make conscience decisions on how to apply themselves to academics, just like all students do. Lets face it. Some of may not be college academic material. But that is true of many college freshman. But those kids are getting an opportunity they would never have gotten without an athletic scholarship and lower admission standards. They are also getting additional help to get them through the rigors of college. There really is no reason not to graduate except for lack of academic discipline. For those college programs with 70 percent graduation rate what is the graduation rate for the general student body? You have to put things in perspective.
All you see is millions of dollars on one side of the equation and think that because the students are not getting a share of that the players are being exploited. If a school loses money on their program should the athlete have to step up and pay their share of the losses? This year should the athletes bear their percentage losses on the overhead and costs associated with their education if they don't play? Of course not. The benefit to the student athlete of a football scholarship is far reaching and encompasses all athletes on scholarship, not just the stars on the team.
So if they are not good students and going to excel in college why go? Why play football if you know you are going to get injured? Why? Because they love to play. Others because it is the only way for them to afford a college education. Other who did not excell in HS actually do get their college degree. Only a minuscule number actually have a shot at the NFL.
