What Is a Citizen?

[sk8knight]

What does it mean to be a US Citizen? What should it mean? Is it simply a documentation process or is it a much larger commitment and set of responsiblities? Is citizenry an obsolete relic of a bygone age?

I ask because a NYC mayoral candidate made the following statement: “We have to be a true sanctuary city. We have to live up to our values, which means making investments in our families regardless of documentation,” said former Sanitation Commissioner Kathryn Garcia, who recently moved into the top tier of candidates."

 

[Crazyhole]

What does it mean to be a US Citizen? What should it mean? Is it simply a documentation process or is it a much larger commitment and set of responsiblities? Is citizenry an obsolete relic of a bygone age?

I ask because a NYC mayoral candidate made the following statement: “We have to be a true sanctuary city. We have to live up to our values, which means making investments in our families regardless of documentation,” said former Sanitation Commissioner Kathryn Garcia, who recently moved into the top tier of candidates."

Props. It was only a matter of time before this topic was actually going to be broached.

IMO, a citizen should be defined as someone who is born in the US to 2 parents that are both citizens, or those that have gone through the naturalization process and have obtained a SS# after filling for residency legally and passing an immigration test.

 

[OLearyLastCall]

What does it mean to be a US Citizen? What should it mean? Is it simply a documentation process or is it a much larger commitment and set of responsiblities? Is citizenry an obsolete relic of a bygone age?

I ask because a NYC mayoral candidate made the following statement: “We have to be a true sanctuary city. We have to live up to our values, which means making investments in our families regardless of documentation,” said former Sanitation Commissioner Kathryn Garcia, who recently moved into the top tier of candidates."

Legally? I guess it means you either have are part of the US through birth or naturalization.

I like her definition too.

 

[sk8knight]

Legally? I guess it means you either have are part of the US through birth or naturalization.

I like her definition too.

So what would you like it to be? I think it would be very interesting to see where everyone thinks this should be.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

If your here illegally...get the f out. We are full. Applications are at the exit where you can prove you will be an asset to our country. Also pay the citizenship fee like most countries charge.

First of all, learn basic grammar that any illegal coming in would know.

Second, I assume you are here legally and you're completely lazy and useless as evidenced by you doing nothing but posting about Biden on a message board all damn day long.

 

[UCFRogerz]

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

You get rather offended by my lazy comments. Are you annoyed Florida is canceling the free money machine? I'm sure as stable as you sound that you will have no troubles getting a job. 🤥

I'm sorry, I pressed one for English. Could you try typing it? This makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Simply put...Your weekly enhanced unemployment checks coming to an end.

Sorry, never got any of those. Never supported giving that out either. But you already knew that, Melvin.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Citizenship is either falling out of a vagina on US soil and knowing nothing about the US or it’s history and riding the coattails of others or it could be obtained through a lengthy naturalization process. During this process you will become more knowledgeable about the US than 99% of its citizens. If you have no coattails to ride or time and money to invest in the naturalization process you are SOL.

 

[goodknightfl]

A chump to be controlled by the ruling class.

 

[Happy Hands]

Being a citizen means your government steals money from your paycheck, imposes itself in every financial interaction you partake in, use the stolen money to reward the wealthy, speaks with deliberate equivocation, manipulates you by creating dichotomies (white/black, liberal/conservative) in order to divide and control, pushes propaganda through corporately controlled media outlets, creates problems and then provides its own self serving solution, this is an endless and depressing list.

Government is shitty and being a citizen just means you are under the subjugation of the sociopaths that run it.

 

[DaShuckster]

For me, being a U.S. citizen has meant...

• The opportunity to live my life in the greatest country on the planet;
• The ability to charter my own course in life and live a life fulfilled;
• The chance to see amazing places in our country and the world;
• Watching my country 'take a lickin' from time to time -- but keep on tickin.'
• Raising a loving family with my wife having the opportunity to stay at home with our children when they were young;
• Enjoying American entertainment (movies, TV, video games, sports, and social media)
• The ability to own my own home.
• To do what I want, when I want
• Pursuing enjoyable hobbies in retirement guilt-free.
• The opportunity to vote and support my country and my local community with my taxes and my service.

Is there a bunch of crap in this world and in this country? Absolutely.

But anybody who wants to moan and groan about 'how oppressed they are' and whine about 'how people today are 'shafted' by 'the ruling elites' needs a serious reality check.

We all live in the best country on Earth at The VERY Best Time in human history. Maybe its different for you guys, but that makes being a U.S. citizen pretty damn special in my book.

 

[sk8knight]

For me, being a U.S. citizen has meant...

• The opportunity to live my life in the greatest country on the planet;
• The ability to charter my own course in life and live a life fulfilled;
• The chance to see amazing places in our country and the world;
• Watching my country 'take a lickin' from time to time -- but keep on tickin.'
• Raising a loving family with my wife having the opportunity to stay at home with our children when they were young;
• Enjoying American entertainment (movies, TV, video games, sports, and social media)
• The ability to own my own home.
• To do what I want, when I want
• Pursuing enjoyable hobbies in retirement guilt-free.
• The opportunity to vote and support my country and my local community with my taxes and my service.

Is there a bunch of crap in this world and in this country? Absolutely.

But anybody who wants to moan and groan about 'how oppressed they are' and whine about 'how people today are 'shafted' by 'the ruling elites' needs a serious reality check.

We all live in the best country on Earth at The VERY Best Time in human history. Maybe its different for you guys, but that makes being a U.S. citizen pretty damn special in my book.

I appreciate this and agree with almost everything you said here. But I’m hesitant because I know that you’re going to argue without end that American POC have been shafted by the ruling elite white people and are continuing to be oppressed.

 

[Happy Hands]

For me, being a U.S. citizen has meant...

• The opportunity to live my life in the greatest country on the planet;
• The ability to charter my own course in life and live a life fulfilled;
• The chance to see amazing places in our country and the world;
• Watching my country 'take a lickin' from time to time -- but keep on tickin.'
• Raising a loving family with my wife having the opportunity to stay at home with our children when they were young;
• Enjoying American entertainment (movies, TV, video games, sports, and social media)
• The ability to own my own home.
• To do what I want, when I want
• Pursuing enjoyable hobbies in retirement guilt-free.
• The opportunity to vote and support my country and my local community with my taxes and my service.

Is there a bunch of crap in this world and in this country? Absolutely.

But anybody who wants to moan and groan about 'how oppressed they are' and whine about 'how people today are 'shafted' by 'the ruling elites' needs a serious reality check.

We all live in the best country on Earth at The VERY Best Time in human history. Maybe its different for you guys, but that makes being a U.S. citizen pretty damn special in my book.

I think you’re right. However, most of the stuff you listed has little to do with being a citizen. Those are things you get for living in a particular community with a particular amount of wealth and ability to consume. The state doesn’t enter into it(or they don’t need to). Except the last one. That one was a pure shucksterism.

 

[DaShuckster]

I think you’re right. However, most of the stuff you listed has little to do with being a citizen. Those are things you get for living in a particular community with a particular amount of wealth and ability to consume.

I beg to disagree. Being a citizen of the United States of America gave me the opportunity to make a good living, live where I want to live, raise my family, and spend my money as I saw fit.

The state doesn’t enter into it(or they don’t need to).

I've visited many of other countries -- and while I enjoyed my visits -- they would not have provided me with the same opportunities the USA has.

Except the last one. That one was a pure shucksterism.

Yeah, pretty 'old fashioned,' huh?

I appreciate this and agree with almost everything you said here. But I’m hesitant because I know that you’re going to argue without end that American POC have been shafted by the ruling elite white people and are continuing to be oppressed.

Appreciating my many blessings and what this great country has given me doesn't mean I have to believe it's perfect. Far from it. The whole point behind the founding of our country was to form a government that would STRIVE to form a more perfect union. I wish all women and people of color could have the same blessings most of us on this board have had. Many certainly have, but the reality is that a far greater number have not.

 

[OLearyLastCall]

So what would you like it to be? I think it would be very interesting to see where everyone thinks this should be.

I'd like it to be all of the above. Documented or undocumented, be a good individual, support your family and loved ones, be a positive impact in your community. I think that makes a good citizen.

 

[goodknightfl]

For me, being a U.S. citizen has meant...

• The opportunity to live my life in the greatest country on the planet;
• The ability to charter my own course in life and live a life fulfilled;
• The chance to see amazing places in our country and the world;
• Watching my country 'take a lickin' from time to time -- but keep on tickin.'
• Raising a loving family with my wife having the opportunity to stay at home with our children when they were young;
• Enjoying American entertainment (movies, TV, video games, sports, and social media)
• The ability to own my own home.
• To do what I want, when I want
• Pursuing enjoyable hobbies in retirement guilt-free.
• The opportunity to vote and support my country and my local community with my taxes and my service.

Is there a bunch of crap in this world and in this country? Absolutely.

But anybody who wants to moan and groan about 'how oppressed they are' and whine about 'how people today are 'shafted' by 'the ruling elites' needs a serious reality check.

We all live in the best country on Earth at The VERY Best Time in human history. Maybe its different for you guys, but that makes being a U.S. citizen pretty damn special in my book.

And yet you support the people who wish to fundamentally change it into something it was never meant to be.

 

[bqknight]

Some of y'all are so self-centered and short-sighted.

Meanwhile, she also didn't mention anything about being a citizen in that quote.

“We have to be a true sanctuary city. We have to live up to our values, which means making investments in our families regardless of documentation,” said former Sanitation Commissioner Kathryn Garcia, who recently moved into the top tier of candidates."

Undocumented does not equal bad people. The VERY vast majority of them are working their a$$es off just trying to make a better life for themselves and their families.

There should be a path to citizenship for these hard-working people who want nothing more than to be an American.

 

[sk8knight]

Some of y'all are so self-centered and short-sighted.

Meanwhile, she also didn't mention anything about being a citizen in that quote.

“We have to be a true sanctuary city. We have to live up to our values, which means making investments in our families regardless of documentation,” said former Sanitation Commissioner Kathryn Garcia, who recently moved into the top tier of candidates."

Undocumented does not equal bad people. The VERY vast majority of them are working their a$$es off just trying to make a better life for themselves and their families.

There should be a path to citizenship for these hard-working people who want nothing more than to be an American.

Should a country be investing in people who haven’t made a commitment to become a citizen?

 

[sk8knight]

Some of y'all are so self-centered and short-sighted.

Meanwhile, she also didn't mention anything about being a citizen in that quote.

“We have to be a true sanctuary city. We have to live up to our values, which means making investments in our families regardless of documentation,” said former Sanitation Commissioner Kathryn Garcia, who recently moved into the top tier of candidates."

Undocumented does not equal bad people. The VERY vast majority of them are working their a$$es off just trying to make a better life for themselves and their families.

There should be a path to citizenship for these hard-working people who want nothing more than to be an American.

Also, there is a path to citizenship for everyone. It doesn’t involve overstaying a visa or jumping a border. I’d be all for changing that to a credit system like some other countries have.

 

[bqknight]

Should a country be investing in people who haven’t made a commitment to become a citizen?

Many of these people don't have the option to commit to become a citizen, but would love to be able to.

 

[bqknight]

Also, there is a path to citizenship for everyone. It doesn’t involve overstaying a visa or jumping a border. I’d be all for changing that to a credit system like some other countries have.

While I don't agree with you 100%, let's take the lowest hanging fruit. What about DREAMers? How should they be handled?

 

[sk8knight]

While I don't agree with you 100%, let's take the lowest hanging fruit. What about DREAMers? How should they be handled?

At this point, to make up for the bad initial policy that brought them here, if they can pass the naturalization test and aren’t felons then I’m perfectly fine with saying that they’ve earned citizenship. As long as it doesn’t become an end run around naturalization in the future.

 

[bqknight]

At this point, to make up for the bad initial policy that brought them here, if they can pass the naturalization test and aren’t felons then I’m perfectly fine with saying that they’ve earned citizenship. As long as it doesn’t become an end run around naturalization in the future.

That is fair, and I would agree. Disclaimer: my husband was a DREAMer, who can now apply for his citizenship in August after being brought here when he was 13 and overstayed their visas. He didn't find out that he was here illegally until he was about 22.

 

[sk8knight]

That is fair, and I would agree. Disclaimer: my husband was a DREAMer, who can now apply for his citizenship in August after being brought here when he was 13 and overstayed their visas. He didn't find out that he was here illegally until he was about 22.

I remember you telling that story before. I think that we should absolutely be able to deal with that on a case by case basis but government sucks.

 

[DaShuckster]

And yet you support the people who wish to fundamentally change it into something it was never meant to be.

Who wishes to fundamentally change it? I'm not part of the group trying weakening the underpinnings of our democracy.

 

[sk8knight]

Who wishes to fundamentally change it? I'm not part of the group trying weakening the underpinnings of our democracy.

Our system is a republic, not a democracy.

 

[DaShuckster]

Our system is a republic, not a democracy.

SMH. What makes a republic a republic as opposed to a monarchy?

 

[Crazyhole]

SMH. What makes a republic a republic as opposed to a monarchy?

Is that a serious question?

 

[DaShuckster]

By all means, if democracy is not the bedrock of this great country of ours, educate us all on what it really is.

 

[Crazyhole]

By all means, if democracy is not the bedrock of this great country of ours, educate us all on what it really is.

Democracy is authoritarian rule of the majority over the minority. That has never been a bedrock of this country.

 

[DaShuckster]

Democracy is authoritarian rule of the majority over the minority. That has never been a bedrock of this country.

Okie dokie. I see you’re going ‘crazy town‘ with another thread. Enjoy.

 

[Crazyhole]

Okie dokie. I see you’re going ‘crazy town‘ with another thread. Enjoy.

Fine. Give me your definition of democracy.

 

[sk8knight]

SMH. What makes a republic a republic as opposed to a monarchy?

A republic is the direct response to a monarchy. In a republic, power is held by the people and their elected representatives.

In a democracy, laws are made directly by the voting majority. This often results in the tyranny of the majority.

In a republic, laws are made by representatives of the people and must comply with a constitution. That constitution is generally made to protect the rights of the minority against the tyranny of the majority. In our country, it also further limits the power and scope of the federal government, thus creating another hedge against the power that the European monarchies held at the time of the framing.

 

[DaShuckster]

In a republic, power is held by the people and their elected representatives.

elected representatives? Gee, I wonder how that works?

 

[sk8knight]

elected representatives? Gee, I wonder how that works?

Dude, it's basic civics. There is a difference between a direct democracy and a republic. A republic exercises democratic principles to choose representatives but it is the republican principles that provide the hedge against the dangers of a direct democracy. Regardless, nothing on January 6th, nor any rhetoric from Trump before or after, posed a threat of any type against our US government in place nor our system of government. But that's another topic so can we get back to the citizenship topic?

 

[sk8knight]

That is fair, and I would agree. Disclaimer: my husband was a DREAMer, who can now apply for his citizenship in August after being brought here when he was 13 and overstayed their visas. He didn't find out that he was here illegally until he was about 22.

I think that we need to be able to give earned citizenship to people like your husband that believe in America and it's values (and yes I know that there's conflict there but largely I think you both believe in the ideals and common values that have been America).

I also think that we need to be able to evict and exclude people who come into this country with no intent on learning or sharing the common values and ideologies that make up America. That's not to say that this country isn't a melting pot, because it is and the assimilation of people into the common and the adaptation of the common values due to that is what has made us great. I'm talking about those people that refuse to live by our laws and by our values and keep their value systems and never join the melting pot. Sovereign sons, shariah-ists, etc.

We also cannot take the entire world's poor, unhealthy, and downtrodden all at once. There has to be a way to meter the inflow so that we are fair to both our established citizenry and the people that we're opening up to. What good is them coming to this country if they are stuck in a shadow world of almost indentured servitude because we either don't know about them, they don't have the basic skills to survive in a free market economy, and/or we don't have the resources to help them for the multiple generations that it takes for their family to be successful?

 

[DaShuckster]

Dude, it's basic civics. There is a difference between a direct democracy and a republic.

Please point out where I ever once wrote direct democracy.

My comment was that democracy is the bedrock of this great country of ours. Would you prefer if I'd said that democracy is the bedrock of this great republic of ours??!?

 

[bqknight]

I think that we need to be able to give earned citizenship to people like your husband that believe in America and it's values (and yes I know that there's conflict there but largely I think you both believe in the ideals and common values that have been America).

I also think that we need to be able to evict and exclude people who come into this country with no intent on learning or sharing the common values and ideologies that make up America. That's not to say that this country isn't a melting pot, because it is and the assimilation of people into the common and the adaptation of the common values due to that is what has made us great. I'm talking about those people that refuse to live by our laws and by our values and keep their value systems and never join the melting pot. Sovereign sons, shariah-ists, etc.

We also cannot take the entire world's poor, unhealthy, and downtrodden all at once. There has to be a way to meter the inflow so that we are fair to both our established citizenry and the people that we're opening up to. What good is them coming to this country if they are stuck in a shadow world of almost indentured servitude because we either don't know about them, they don't have the basic skills to survive in a free market economy, and/or we don't have the resources to help them for the multiple generations that it takes for their family to be successful?

I love being an American. Just because I point out flaws doesn't mean I hate the country. Quite the opposite. I point out flaws because I care and want the USA to be the best version of itself it can be. I'd argue that the people who aren't always trying to make the place they call home a better place FOR ALL are the ones who have a problem with the country. They only love THEIR idea of the country. And that's not love - that's abuse.

I'd venture to say the VAST majority of people who come in this country, legally or illegally, want to assimilate into society and make the most for themselves. There are COUNTLESS more naturally born citizens in this country that take advantage of it and have no desire to do anything with their lives other than complain and hold others back. People of course need to abide by the laws of the country, its citizens and non-citizens as well.

And while we cannot take the entire world's poor, etc (we don't - generally speaking illegal immigration has gone done considerably since the mid-00's) - we do have a responsibility as the wealthiest, greatest country in the world to treat people with dignity. The people who risk it all to come here are literally risking it all. That's how bad their lives are where they come from - they are willing to risk a decent shot at dying, just for a chance at mayyyyybe living a better life.

I don't think anyone disagrees that immigration reform needs to happen, badly. No one is benefiting from how the system is set-up now.