Which Party Has Moved More?

[sk8knight]

Every so often we debate which party has moved more, the left or the right. Largely this has come about after someone has accused Republicans or Conservatives of moving further right. I found this piece from a former Mother Jones author interesting.

If you hate the culture wars, blame liberals - Kevin Drum

On Thursday I posted a series of charts that all documented a similar theme: Since roughly the year 2000, according to survey data, Democrats have moved significantly to the left on most hot button social issues while Republicans have moved only slightly right. This wasn't meant to be a rigorous...

jabberwocking.com

 

[cnsaguy]

As a lifelong registered conservative I am embarrassed by the crazy shit that is now associated with conservatism. I think the left started the trend away from the middle but the right followed suit. A lot of that has to do with our last president. If he only kept his mouth shut and let an aide run his Twitter he'd probably still be president.

The whole idea of "we're just happy to trigger the other side" mentality is not productive to anyone. It's an ultimate form of trolling but with much bigger consequences. I really wish a likeable moderate could make to the final ticket someday. They'd win in a landslide. Too bad it's probably wishful thinking.

 

[Cubs79]

I dont really agree with the premise of the article. It is lumping liberal causes into culture war issues, which I dont think they many are. Gay marriage for example, isnt a culture war issue. It is an individual issue giving people the right to marry who they want. Actual conservatives should be for that. And things like gun control is a safety and quality of life issue, not a culture war issue.

 

[ChrisKnight06]

I dont really agree with the premise of the article. It is lumping liberal causes into culture war issues, which I dont think they many are. Gay marriage for example, isnt a culture war issue. It is an individual issue giving people the right to marry who they want. Actual conservatives should be for that. And things like gun control is a safety and quality of life issue, not a culture war issue.

So this is a good point. What exactly is the list of Culture War issues? The term is used a lot but I'm not entirely sure what all falls under the umbrella vs regular political issues.

 

[DaShuckster]

As a lifelong registered conservative I am embarrassed by the crazy shit that is now associated with conservatism.

i agree.

I think the left started the trend away from the middle but the right followed suit.

Yeah, let’s start with the obligatory “they started it” disclaimer.

A lot of that has to do with our last president.

The GOP’s Crazytown Train was rolling down the tracks long before Trump. He just sped it up.

 

[Cubs79]

So this is a good point. What exactly is the list of Culture War issues? The term is used a lot but I'm not entirely sure what all falls under the umbrella vs regular political issues.

I dont know if there is a precise list, but when I think of culture wars, I dont even really view it as political. I think people try to lump legitimate political issues into a culture war issue, but I think many times that is quite a stretch. I think of culture war things more in the realm of what people decide is/isnt acceptable in society with regards to marketing and different things like that. Saying happy holidays instead of merry christmas, Starbucks having the wrong Christmas cups, the NBA players wearing slogans on their jerseys, Elvis Presley shaking his hips on TV, etc etc. These are the types of thing I have always thought of as culture war issues. Gun control has nothing to do with a culture war, it has to do with our nation being violent and having a ton of guns. Gay marriage isnt about a culture war, it is about letting gay people have the right to marry, etc etc.

 

[Boosted87]

Every so often we debate which party has moved more, the left or the right. Largely this has come about after someone has accused Republicans or Conservatives of moving further right. I found this piece from a former Mother Jones author interesting.

If you hate the culture wars, blame liberals - Kevin Drum

On Thursday I posted a series of charts that all documented a similar theme: Since roughly the year 2000, according to survey data, Democrats have moved significantly to the left on most hot button social issues while Republicans have moved only slightly right. This wasn't meant to be a rigorous...

jabberwocking.com

It's a pretty good analysis - I just find the premise faulty.

The entire question IMO is about rate-of-change. Over time, progressive social positions tend to win out. If change happens too-fast or too-slow you have issues. The rate of change has to find an equilibrium rate that the mid-point of society can keep up with.

Technology is enabling change faster and faster. The younger you are, the more OK you are with rapid change. So this makes it harder to balance because the extremes are getting further and further apart.

So I do think liberal activists are responsible in the sense that they are demanding change faster and faster. But this is consistent with society in general. Each major technological innovation gets adopted faster than the previous one. While modern day conservatives are similarly equipped to accept change faster than previous generations, the exponential nature of accelerating change is creating a bigger gap from left to right.

I don't think that's anyone's fault. But I do think we need to figure out how to cope with it. Bottom line is this - the actual rate of progress will both ends unhappy. This is why it's hard to get things done in DC - a compromise angers both party bases.

 

[DaShuckster]

Technology is enabling change faster and faster.

I once attended a presentation by a 'futurist' who spoke to this very issue at a conference I was attending. He said that once-upon-a-time, a major technological developments took place once in three or four generations, then it became once a generation, and is now happening once every seven years (and this was back said in the 1990s -- God only knows how fast it is now.)

When you combine this level of change with the scientific advancements and the resulting social changes it has brought us, it's become quite a lot of change for many people to deal with.

 

[Crazyhole]

It's a pretty good analysis - I just find the premise faulty.

The entire question IMO is about rate-of-change. Over time, progressive social positions tend to win out. If change happens too-fast or too-slow you have issues. The rate of change has to find an equilibrium rate that the mid-point of society can keep up with.

Technology is enabling change faster and faster. The younger you are, the more OK you are with rapid change. So this makes it harder to balance because the extremes are getting further and further apart.

So I do think liberal activists are responsible in the sense that they are demanding change faster and faster. But this is consistent with society in general. Each major technological innovation gets adopted faster than the previous one. While modern day conservatives are similarly equipped to accept change faster than previous generations, the exponential nature of accelerating change is creating a bigger gap from left to right.

I don't think that's anyone's fault. But I do think we need to figure out how to cope with it. Bottom line is this - the actual rate of progress will both ends unhappy. This is why it's hard to get things done in DC - a compromise angers both party bases.

So you're saying that we just aren't ready for rainbow dildo butt monkey hosting storytime hour for 5 year-olds?

 

[sk8knight]

As a lifelong registered conservative I am embarrassed by the crazy shit that is now associated with conservatism. I think the left started the trend away from the middle but the right followed suit. A lot of that has to do with our last president. If he only kept his mouth shut and let an aide run his Twitter he'd probably still be president.

The whole idea of "we're just happy to trigger the other side" mentality is not productive to anyone. It's an ultimate form of trolling but with much bigger consequences. I really wish a likeable moderate could make to the final ticket someday. They'd win in a landslide. Too bad it's probably wishful thinking.

How much of your embarrassment is policy-related and how much is Trump's personality?

 

[Crazyhole]

Washington DC couple has father claiming to be mother, breastfeeds baby

The Washington DC couple involves Ahanu, who claims to be the father and Petrona, who claims to be the mother of the child. | OpIndia News

www.opindia.com

Are we just not ready for this "yet"?

 

[Cubs79]

Washington DC couple has father claiming to be mother, breastfeeds baby

The Washington DC couple involves Ahanu, who claims to be the father and Petrona, who claims to be the mother of the child. | OpIndia News

www.opindia.com

Are we just not ready for this "yet"?

Being trans isnt a political issue. This is what I mean when I say culture wars really arent about politics. It also has no impact on you, so whether you are ready for it or not doesnt matter.

 

[chemmie]

So this is a good point. What exactly is the list of Culture War issues? The term is used a lot but I'm not entirely sure what all falls under the umbrella vs regular political issues.

it is just a term used to get old white people scared that the blacks, hispanics, gays, trans, and women, are going to take over.

 

[Crazyhole]

it is just a term used to get old white people scared that the blacks, hispanics, gays, trans, and women, are going to take over.

Ah, the good old "they're just racist, sexist, homophobes" accusation while at the same time acting as though the culture war only exists on the right.

 

[cnsaguy]

How much of your embarrassment is policy-related and how much is Trump's personality?

Prob 95% personality. But his ability to mind control non-critical thinkers is 90% of that. Just read Fox News comments on Facebook and see what I mean. He drew a hard line in the sand politically that will take years to fix. Crossing party lines now is considered treasonous by his followers and that's why we have such a divide.

Right wingers are crying Nazism for anything Covid related but the irony is that they followed Trump similar to how Hitler created his following, bad mouthing those in power and insisting his way was better.

STFU before anyone pops in and says I think Trump would commit genocide. Be a critical thinker and not a sheep.

 

[Crazyhole]

Being trans isnt a political issue. This is what I mean when I say culture wars really arent about politics. It also has no impact on you, so whether you are ready for it or not doesnt matter.

Are you willing, as a Democrat, to condemn this couple for doing what they are doing?

 

[Cubs79]

Are you willing, as a Democrat, to condemn this couple for doing what they are doing?

WHy would I condemn them? It has nothing to do with me. If the child isnt being abused or anything like that, then why do I care?

 

[Crazyhole]

WHy would I condemn them? It has nothing to do with me. If the child isnt being abused or anything like that, then why do I care?

A grown man forcing an infant to suck on him isn't worthy of condemnation from America's political left.

Amazing how woke you are. Nothing crosses the line for you guys anymore.

 

[Cubs79]

A grown man forcing an infant to suck on him isn't worthy of condemnation from America's political left.

Amazing how woke you are. Nothing crosses the line for you guys anymore.

It has nothing to do with being woke, it has to do with not being my business.

 

[Crazyhole]

It has nothing to do with being woke, it has to do with not being my business.

Look the other way, huh?

And you guys wonder why I say that we're going to end up with a pedophile nation.

 

[Cubs79]

Look the other way, huh?

And you guys wonder why I say that we're going to end up with a pedophile nation.

This has nothing to do with pedophilia.

 

[Crazyhole]

This has nothing to do with pedophilia.

How many steps away from pedophilia is this? A man forcing an infant to suck on his body doesn't seem too far off.

 

[Cubs79]

How many steps away from pedophilia is this? A man forcing an infant to suck on his body doesn't seem too far off.

You guys think everything is pedophilia these days, and you have a habit of finding one situation, that is nowhere near the norm, and acting like this is what everyone is doing.

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

I once attended a presentation by a 'futurist' who spoke to this very issue at a conference I was attending. He said that once-upon-a-time, a major technological developments took place once in three or four generations, then it became once a generation, and is now happening once every seven years (and this was back said in the 1990s -- God only knows how fast it is now.)

When you combine this level of change with the scientific advancements and the resulting social changes it has brought us, it's become quite a lot of change for many people to deal with.

Especially for the uneducated backwoods folk

 

[Crazyhole]

You guys think everything is pedophilia these days, and you have a habit of finding one situation, that is nowhere near the norm, and acting like this is what everyone is doing.

Can I at least get you to condemn pedophilia?

 

[Cubs79]

Can I at least get you to condemn pedophilia?

Of course I condemn pedophilia, numbnuts, I am not the one constantly thinking about pedophilia like some of you guys.

 

[chemmie]

Look the other way, huh?

And you guys wonder why I say that we're going to end up with a pedophile nation.

Soooooo... you somehow believe there is a connection between being gay or trans, and pedophilia? I don't think we're the ones with the problem.

If a guy is actually having a baby suck his nipples regularly for sexual gratification, that is nasty and should be looked into as a form of abuse. I don't believe bullshit articles from bullshit sources, so I don't bother commenting any more than that.

 

[Crazyhole]

Soooooo... you somehow believe there is a connection between being gay or trans, and pedophilia? I don't think we're the ones with the problem.

If a guy is actually having a baby suck his nipples regularly for sexual gratification, that is nasty and should be looked into as a form of abuse. I don't believe bullshit articles from bullshit sources, so I don't bother commenting any more than that.

Bullshit source? There's literally video of it happening in the link.

But by all means, look the other way because you can't overcome woke long enough to recognize child abuse.

 

[Crazyhole]

Soooooo... you somehow believe there is a connection between being gay or trans, and pedophilia? I don't think we're the ones with the problem.

If a guy is actually having a baby suck his nipples regularly for sexual gratification, that is nasty and should be looked into as a form of abuse. I don't believe bullshit articles from bullshit sources, so I don't bother commenting any more than that.

Also, I love the caveat. "Regularly for sexual gratification". You people are sick.

 

[Cubs79]

Bullshit source? There's literally video of it happening in the link.

But by all means, look the other way because you can't overcome woke long enough to recognize child abuse.

You keep saying we are looking the other way. So tell me, what exactly are you doing about it? Posting on a college sports message board isnt exactly going to remedy this issue you are so concerned with, so you are basically looking the other way too.

 

[Crazyhole]

You keep saying we are looking the other way. So tell me, what exactly are you doing about it? Posting on a college sports message board isnt exactly going to remedy this issue you are so concerned with, so you are basically looking the other way too.

Oh. My. God.

You people really are that sick.

 

[Cubs79]

Oh. My. God.

You people really are that sick.

How am I sick by asking you what you are doing about it? It is a pretty easy question.

 

[chemmie]

Bullshit source? There's literally video of it happening in the link.

But by all means, look the other way because you can't overcome woke long enough to recognize child abuse.

We can't help it if two idiots on social media is a sign of something larger and more sinister in your bigoted mind.

These people look like idiots. Idiots come in all shapes, sizes, colors, sexual orientations, and gender classifications. We don't care, because these idiots are an anomaly. They don't matter.

 

[chemmie]

Keep in mind, you're talking to the same guy who thinks drag queens are trans. He's got a major issue with understanding sexual/gender issues, and can't seem to get over his own biases.

 

[Crazyhole]

We can't help it if two idiots on social media is a sign of something larger and more sinister in your bigoted mind.

These people look like idiots. Idiots come in all shapes, sizes, colors, sexual orientations, and gender classifications. We don't care, because these idiots are an anomaly. They don't matter.

You know, you're right. It's none of my business what these 2 freaks, or anyone else for that matter, do to babies and children so I should just keep my mouth shut about it.

 

[Cubs79]

You know, you're right. It's none of my business what these 2 freaks, or anyone else for that matter, do to babies and children so I should just keep my mouth shut about it.

Dude, you constantly bring up these anecdotal stories and then try to imply this is stuff that is going on everywhere or something. IF the child isnt being harmed, which I dont know if it is or not, but if it isnt, then I dont get your outrage. Obviously this has some media attention, so if the child is being harmed I would assume someone would step in.

 

[Crazyhole]

Dude, you constantly bring up these anecdotal stories and then try to imply this is stuff that is going on everywhere or something. IF the child isnt being harmed, which I dont know if it is or not, but if it isnt, then I dont get your outrage. Obviously this has some media attention, so if the child is being harmed I would assume someone would step in.

Constantly bring up anecdotal stories.

At what point is it not anecdotal?

 

[Cubs79]

Constantly bring up anecdotal stories.

At what point is it not anecdotal?

Is this a normal thing? Do you know of lots of transcouples doing this? If it isnt then it is anecdotal.

 

[Crazyhole]

Is this a normal thing? Do you know of lots of transcouples doing this? If it isnt then it is anecdotal.

Not yet. Are you OK with it becoming a normal thing?

 

[Cubs79]

Not yet. Are you OK with it becoming a normal thing?

I highly doubt that it will and I dont concern myself with things that very likely arent going to happen.