White House announces it will not comply with illegitimate and unconstitutional impeachment inquiry
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Trump's refusal to cooperate with the House regarding its impeachment inquiry is simply adding fuel to an 'abuse of power' charge against him.
I've got news for you guys: The impeachment process IS political. That means the Democrat House have the votes to impeach Trump's ass. It also means that the Republican Senate can save his ass.
But Trump's recent antics -- including his abrupt pullout of troops from Syria -- have a number of Republicans spooked. That, plus the every-growing majority of impeach Trumpers in recent polls, will make a subsequent trial less of a 'sure thing' acquittal than some might think.
In fact, the power brokers within the GOP might privately push fellow Senators to dump Trump and hope someone like Nikki Haley might help prevent a GOP rout in 2020.
I've got news for you guys: The impeachment process IS political. That means the Democrat House have the votes to impeach Trump's ass. It also means that the Republican Senate can save his ass.
But Trump's recent antics -- including his abrupt pullout of troops from Syria -- have a number of Republicans spooked. That, plus the every-growing majority of impeach Trumpers in recent polls, will make a subsequent trial less of a 'sure thing' acquittal than some might think.
In fact, the power brokers within the GOP might privately push fellow Senators to dump Trump and hope someone like Nikki Haley might help prevent a GOP rout in 2020.
Did you read the next sentence?
Perhaps I was talking about the two political parties that control the House and the Senate.
TDS on display. Didn't we go along this fake news path for the last 2 years with the Mueller report?
You really need some new lines and/or a civics lesson.
1.) No. The Mueller report was started by the Repubican AG Jeff Sessions after Trump admitted on national TV that he fired Comey in order to get rid of the Russian investigation.
2.) The Constitution does not have TDS. It does have checks and balances between co-equal branches of gov't, the presidency and Congress.
Its ridiculous that after ceding power to the executive branch for 20 years that now impeachment is their only option left to maintain checks and balances.
What's truly ridiculous is the executive branch refusing to cooperate and comply with impeachment inquiry requests. Jesus, talk about an abuse of power!!!
What exactly is Congress supposed to do when confronted with such a blatant disregard for the Constitution and the rule of law???
Impeach him. It's just stupid that they have given all of their cards away for so long that it has led to this. As soon as funds were allocated for Ukrainian aid, they should have been dispersed and if they weren't then the Congress should have been on his butt about it. Instead, they have completely given full discretion to the president on how and when to spend money going back to 2009.
Oh, abuse of power? Surely you're referring to shitbag Adam Schiff who has been utterly abusing his Committee Chair position for 2 years now, up to and including outright lying about what he claimed to see in classified briefs, and outright lying and inventing things that the President never said during a formal House Committee meeting.
The same Adam Schiff that privately met with the whistleblower before the report was written and then lied about having ever met the person.
Also the same guy who is leading the impeachment charge in total secrecy behind closed doors.
Jesus, talk about an abuse of power!!!
All of this.
I think Ben Sasse explained it best. Congress refuses to make any decisions because they want to get re-elected, so they cede power to the Executive branch who is term limited (surprise).
I'm in the camp that they need to gather more evidence of what happened before impeachment.
I am too. IMO, I don't think he has done anything that warrants impeachment any more than what his 3 predecessors did, but at some point the executive has to be held to account. Not just for trump, but for anyone who wants to be president in the future. We have 535 people in Washington that are there to do the peoples business and they all just want 1 person to take care of it. That's a bigger affront to the constitution than trump asking Ukraine or Australia to look into corruption.
then call for a vote in the house. then the real proceedings can take place. btw, i want them to vote and proceed.
The impeachment inquiry is designed to do just that: gather the evidence and then determine whether the crimes/abuses rise to the level of a formal indictment by the House to be taken to the Senate.
Trouble is, Trump is refusing to cooperate with the inquiry. Basically, the President is extending a middle finger to Congress and its Constitutional role.
Hmmm, I wonder if there's any Presidential abuse of power going on here?
That's all fine and good, but the investigation should not be partisan. Republicans should not be excluded if this is really about the constitution.
lol the Democrats are running a shadow investigation and purposely avoiding any transparency.
Hmm wonder why? Could it be due to the fact that the last time they coached and coerced a witness, it blew up in their face?
It's really about the Constitution, Crazy. They get to vote just like their Democrat colleagues.
Regarding the investigation...What investigation? If the WH refuses to cooperate, the President is saying "FU" to the Constitution. Either we believe in the rule of law, or we don't.
Avoiding any 'transparency' in the investigation???!? Are you kidding?!?!?
Trump has been completely transparent in his flagrant abuse of his Constitutional powers. Christ, his FU to the House's impeachment inquiry is simply the latest in a running series of Presidential abuses.
How many examples have to come out of this blowhard's mouth before you start paying attention to this mounting Constitutional crisis??!?
If what happened on the call is accurate and I would like to see the real transcript, then I think that is grounds for impeachment and removal.
I guess I just don't see it by the transcript that was released. Maybe there's more to it, which wouldn't surprise me at all, but I don't see a crime there. Everybody knows there was something fishy about that company and Biden was involved, both familially and as the VP. A lot of money disappeared, and that by itself is worthy of the Ukranian government looking into further. Offering Barrs assistance is within the law. Now, if trump threatened to withhold aid dollars if they don't comply, that is an abuse of power regardless of whether or not a presidential candidate is involved but I just don't see it from the transcript.
Trump actually did withhold the money until Ukraine complied with finding dirt on Biden. He also dangled a WH visit. The transcript has Trump asking the president of Ukraine to do him a favor and that Barr and Guiliani will follow up with him. Then you have the text messages between Volker and Guiliani setting up the deal. Giuliani admitted on CNN that he was setting up a deal to get dirt on Biden with Ukraine. If that weren't enough, the POTUS goes out on the WH lawn on national tv and admits that he ask Ukraine (and China) for help on finding dirt on Biden. Now, I would like to hear Trump's specific words because this "transcript" of the call is not word for word of the actual call, it's the WH's altered interpretation of it. We know everyone's role in this situation, now we just need to hear everyone explain their side.
Biden is a different issue but the WH wants you to think it is related. Joe Biden wasn't involved with Burisma, his son was an employee. His son probably got the job because of who his father was but that isn't illegal. Burisma was being investigated for activities between 2010 and 2012. Hunter Biden join in 2014.
The ‘transcript’ that was released was an unofficial version of the conversation. When it was released the initial reaction was surprise that the WH would release evidence that was so incriminating.
But there was a method to the madness because an actual transcript exists that is locked away in a top secret file. Reports that have leaked about the call indicate Trump pressed the Ukrainian President relentlessly to the point where some of the listeners thought he was becoming unhinged.
Yep. The WH is going to fight this tooth and nail. I’m curious how our Usual Suspects here can explain the Fox News poll about support for Trump’s impeachment. I guess those guys have TDS too, huh?
Fox has had TDS for a while. I only read Infowars now.
lol - the actual guy who was supposedly "being blackmailed" says that's total bullshit and he never once took anything that way.
BUT WHAT DOES HE KNOW!?!?!?!
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has said there was “no blackmail” in a phone call with Donald Trump that is at the heart of a possible attempt to remove the US president from office.
“This is not corruption, it was just a call,” Mr Zelensky said on Thursday. …
Speaking to reporters at a news conference in Kiev on Thursday, Mr Zelensky said of his 25 July call with Mr Trump: “There was no blackmail. It was not the subject of our conversation.”
He said the purpose of the conversation was to arrange a meeting with Trump, and there were no “conditions” from the US side.
BUT WHAT DOES HE KNOW!?!?!?!
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has said there was “no blackmail” in a phone call with Donald Trump that is at the heart of a possible attempt to remove the US president from office.
“This is not corruption, it was just a call,” Mr Zelensky said on Thursday. …
Speaking to reporters at a news conference in Kiev on Thursday, Mr Zelensky said of his 25 July call with Mr Trump: “There was no blackmail. It was not the subject of our conversation.”
He said the purpose of the conversation was to arrange a meeting with Trump, and there were no “conditions” from the US side.
For historical context, the Judiciary Committee began its investigation shortly after the Saturday Night Massacre - a full 3 months before the the full House voted overwhelmingly in favor of formally authorizing the inquiry. The Judiciary committee voted along party lines to grant itself certain subpoena powers. Four months later, they were issuing supboena's with bipartisan super-majorities.
My point is that it doesn't seem likely that any inquiry like this ever starts in a bipartisan fashion. Even if it moves completely in one direction, like it did with Nixon, it didn't start that way. The only way you'll see significant Republican defections is if public support reaches a critical mass. That only happens if there's an investigation and evidence comes out.
OK but let's be realistic here. Even if were dealing with a worst case scenario - what's he gonna say? Admit to a corrupt act when he was elected on an anti-corruption platform? Risk completely losing support of a POTUS who could be in charge for 5+ more years, with Russia at your doorstep?
If you game theory this out, I can't seem him finding any path other than to say this, regardless of circumstances. If Trump gets ousted, he gets a reset. If Trump doesn't get ousted, he has to stay in his good graces.
So yes it's good for Trump that Zelensky says this, but I don't find it persuasively exculpatory in light of the other information coming out on a daily basis.
This entire debacle centers around what is essentially an allegation of political blackmail. The Democrats are busy trying to frame every leak as "proof" that we were dangling things in front of Zelensky to get him to open investigations or suffer the consequences. They're framing it on a subjective basis given how THEY are interpreting certain words from a transcript.
I mean, we have lunatics on this very board trying to insist that the mere usage of the word "favor" by Trump is proof of something, even though it had absolutely nothing to do with Biden or anything relevant.
So yes, how Zelensky says he interpreted all of this matters since he WAS the supposed target of this blackmail. Whatever his intentions for saying it are irrelevant, if he says he never once felt there was a "tit for tat" going on then good luck trying to convince people that the actual person at the center of this is wrong.
I find it laughable that the same people who got their panties in a wad over Obama's Dreamer EO, yawn over the way Trump has been literally trashing the Constitution ever since he took office.
Americans are getting sick and tired of Trump's dictatorial sh*t. It was only a matter of time before he had pulled enough stupid crap that Congress had no choice but to initiate an impeachment inquiry.
This is one of the darkest periods in our nation's history. I just pray to God that we can survive the Trump era without some catastrophic event happening.
Americans are getting sick and tired of Trump's dictatorial sh*t. It was only a matter of time before he had pulled enough stupid crap that Congress had no choice but to initiate an impeachment inquiry.
This is one of the darkest periods in our nation's history. I just pray to God that we can survive the Trump era without some catastrophic event happening.
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
You can tell Shookster is glued to MSNBC every day in a dark room to fuel his delusions and paranoia.
Yeah, I'm so isolated and alone in my views, right?
Can you believe this joker actual talks about the delusions of others??!?! Comedy Gold!
Yeah, I'm so isolated and alone in my views, right?
Can you believe this joker actual talks about the delusions of others??!?! Comedy Gold!
Well, you think The Bible endorses abortion by Approval By Omission. Need I say more?
Damn! An abortion jab in an impeachment thread??!?!?
Christ, you really are desperate!
I don't see how Zelensky's interpretation is nearly as important as Trump's intent. For example, if Trump has zero intent to setup a quid-pro-quo, but Zelensky interpreted it as one anyway, would his interpretation matter more than Trump's intent? Of course not. The same logic applies both ways. The intent is what matters.
That doesn't mean Zelensky's interpretation is irrelevant. I concede that if Zelensky felt no pressure at all to cede to Trump's requests, then either nothing nefarious was happening or Guiliani was really bad at his job. I'm simply pointing out that Zelensky is basically in a hostage situation here and his comments should be weighted accordingly.
