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A Game of Russian Roulette in Congress

DaShuckster

Diamond Knight
Nov 30, 2003
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Can someone explain Kevin McCarthy and his House Majority's grand strategy to me? Our MAGA Republicans are SO CONCERNED about our rising national debt (after four years of a Trump spendathon) that it's willing to hold our debt ceiling hostage to.....DO WHAT for crying ot loud??!?

It apparently is lost on these MAGA House Nutjobs that the debt ceiling isn't the place for negotiations on our future budget, it's about paying on our g'damned debt we've already rung up. We're really supposed to believe that Republicans are taking the debt ceiling approval process hostage because....they worry about our fiscal well-being??? Please spare us the bullsh*t.

I'm curious how forcing the government to default on our debt shows ANY fiscal responsiblity whatsoever? Bills won't be paid and Wall Street will go into freefall. Yeah, THAT'LL help things. SMH.
 
It is normal Washington BS. First off there is 0 reason to default, We take in more than enough to pay the payments on the debt. Anyone from either side that buys into the crisis nonsense is Naive. Reps have in congress already passed a bill to extend with minor reductions in spending, Senate is not willing to address spending at all, The Senate needs to pass a countering bill and send it back to congress, to reconcile, just like they do on every other bill and hash it out. That wont happen because both sides want to continue the crisis bullshit.
Both sides are simply posturing and using it for PR purposes.
The per capita debt in US today is 95,500+ That is absolutely stupid thing to keep adding to.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/203064/national-debt-of-the-united-states-per-capita/
 
Yeah in a world where we will run a 1.6 trillion dollar deficit this year, it is posturing. If you think cutting discretionary spending 4 to 8% is going to hurt anything you are blinded by Left BS. Most states balance the budget every year, most families balance their budget to some degree, I balance my budget, and my debt is down 55% in actual dollars, from 20 years ago and way more if you factor in inflation. And yet the highly educated leaders of this country can't do simple math, or control their impulses.
 
Yeah in a world where we will run a 1.6 trillion dollar deficit this year, it is posturing. If you think cutting discretionary spending 4 to 8% is going to hurt anything you are blinded by Left BS. Most states balance the budget every year, most families balance their budget to some degree, I balance my budget, and my debt is down 55% in actual dollars, from 20 years ago and way more if you factor in inflation. And yet the highly educated leaders of this country can't do simple math, or control their impulses.
Everything you've said has ZERO to do with what our House is threatening to do in Congress.

If you think refusing to pay our bills on time isn't going to 'hurt anything,' you are just as batshit crazy as McCarthy and his MAGA clowns.
 
Best #s I get is Govt will pay aprox 860 billion interest on the debt this year, They will take in 2.05 trillion in tax revenue. They can pay the interest in full and still spend 1.2 trillion. There is 0 reason to default on the debt because of a few days/weeks delay in raising the debt limit. McCarthy passed a bill to extend the debt limit, others won't accept, with reductions in spending. Dems want all their big new program spending to continue at same rate as now and borrow everything needed to keep spending.

The House voted to increase in debt limit, Schumer's Senate has not passed anything, it needs to do it's job. Then both sides sit down, act like grownups, and work out reconciliation bill just like normal budget bills. .
Republican house says pay our bills with cuts in spending, Dems say borrow as much as possible, spend as much as you can push through debt limits, until we can't even pay the interest, then default.
 
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Best #s I get is Govt will pay aprox 860 billion interest on the debt this year, They will take in 205 trillion in tax revenue. They can pay the interest in full and still spend 1.2 trillion. There is 0 reason to default on the debt because of a few days/weeks delay in raising the debt limit. McCarthy passed a bill to extend the debt limit, others won't accept, with reductions in spending. Dems want all their big new program spending to continue at same rate as now and borrow everything needed to keep spending.

The House voted to increase in debt limit, Schumer's Senate has not passed anything, it needs to do it's job. Then both sides sit down, act like grownups, and work out reconciliation bill just like normal budget bills. .
Republican house says pay our bills with cuts in spending, Dems say borrow as much as possible, spend as much as you can push through debt limits, until we can't even pay the interest, then default.
US GDP is 23 trillion so Im interested to know how you think we take in 205 trillion in tax revenue. In 2022 we took in 4.9 trillion in tax revenue the year before about 4 trillion. Under trump it was 3.3-3.6 trillion
 
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Best #s I get is Govt will pay aprox 860 billion interest on the debt this year, They will take in 205 trillion in tax revenue. They can pay the interest in full and still spend 1.2 trillion. There is 0 reason to default on the debt because of a few days/weeks delay in raising the debt limit. McCarthy passed a bill to extend the debt limit, others won't accept, with reductions in spending. Dems want all their big new program spending to continue at same rate as now and borrow everything needed to keep spending.

The House voted to increase in debt limit, Schumer's Senate has not passed anything, it needs to do it's job. Then both sides sit down, act like grownups, and work out reconciliation bill just like normal budget bills. .
Republican house says pay our bills with cuts in spending, Dems say borrow as much as possible, spend as much as you can push through debt limits, until we can't even pay the interest, then default.
The job is to pay the debt and live up to their obligations. The debt ceiling and budget are not the same thing and shouldn't be treated as such.
 
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US GDP is 23 trillion so Im interested to know how you think we take in 205 trillion in tax revenue. In 2022 we took in 4.9 trillion in tax revenue the year before about 4 trillion. Under trump it was 3.3-3.6 trillion
was 2.05 trillion, just missed the . We can't go forever without a debt limit increase, and I think it should be passed. That said I am for putting the breaks on spending.
 
I am for putting the breaks on spending.
I am all for us being more fiscally responsible too. It's the reason I was once a registered Republican.

But show me ANY Republican President this century who could be described as "fiscally responsible"? And where the fcuk were those "We need to put the breaks on spending" Republican members of Congress during the Trump and Bush Presidencies??!?
 
The last time we came THIS CLOSE to defaulting on our debt (2011), Wall Street experienced an 18% drop and for the first time in US history and the S&P downgraded our credit rating below AAA (heeeeeeeellooo, this costs us money) and have yet to earn it back (gee, I wonder why).

I believe we DO need to begin seriously addressing our national debt program. But you can't threaten to default on our debt while telling the American People that you're serious about addressing it --- especially when you voted for cutting taxes for America's most wealthy which ADDED trillions to the deficit you' are NOW telling us is a problem.
 
The last time we came THIS CLOSE to defaulting on our debt (2011), Wall Street experienced an 18% drop and for the first time in US history and the S&P downgraded our credit rating below AAA (heeeeeeeellooo, this costs us money) and have yet to earn it back (gee, I wonder why).

I believe we DO need to begin seriously addressing our national debt program. But you can't threaten to default on our debt while telling the American People that you're serious about addressing it --- especially when you voted for cutting taxes for America's most wealthy which ADDED trillions to the deficit you' are NOW telling us is a problem.
Yep. You address the debt during budget talks, not by refusing to pay it.
 
I heard one of the House Republicans today grousing on TV that the President "wasn't being responsible" in addressing our nation's pending debt ceiling 'crisis.'

Ooooooookay. :rolleyes:
 
Whew! The House and Senate came together to save America!

USA! USA! USA!
Republicans and Democrats came together last June to save the US from defaulting on its debt. But House Republicans can't come together to keep the government open??? What the fcuk is going on here??!?

A small group of diehard Trumpian House members are so concerned about the debt, they're bravely willing to shut down the government over it. (Of course, THEIR salaries are guaranteed and will use their self-made crisis to ratchet up THEIR fund-raising campaigns into high gear.)

We supposed to believe the same people who helped Trump raised our national debt by 7 trillion dollars during his term in office are now REALLY REALLY concerned about it. You can't make this sh*t up.

Weird, that the same people whining about our border security apparently think that expecting our border officers work without pay doesn't hurt their cause. Again, do they think we're all THIS STUPID??!?

Anyone who comes here and predicts with a straight face that Trump and the Republicans are going to win in 2024 is certifiably insane.
 
This argument is nothing new in Washington it has happened many times in the past. There has been shutdown's before and will be again. We ar still here, and we will still be here. I can't believe anyone over 30 years old buys this bs.
  • 2018-2019 (President Donald Trump): December 22, 2018 to January 25, 2019 - 34 days
  • 2018 (President Donald Trump): January 20 to January 23 - 3 days
  • 2018 (President Donald Trump): February 9 – 1 day.
  • 2013 (President Barack Obama): October 1 to October. 17 - 16 days
  • 1995-1996 (President Bill Clinton): December 16, 1995, to January 6, 1996, - 21 days
  • 1995 (President Bill Clinton): Nov. 14 to 19 - 5 days
  • 1990 (President George H.W. Bush): October 5 to 9 - 3 days
  • 1987 (President Ronald Reagan): December 18 to December 20 - 1 day
  • 1986 (President Ronald Reagan): October 16 to October 18 - 1 day
  • 1984 (President Ronald Reagan): October 3 to October 5 - 1 day
  • 1984 (President Ronald Reagan): September 30 to October 3 - 2 days
  • 1983 (President Ronald Reagan): November 10 to November 14 - 3 days
  • 1982 (President Ronald Reagan): December 17 to December 21 - 3 days
  • 1982 (President Ronald Reagan): September 30 to October 2 - 1 day
  • 1981 (President Ronald Reagan): November 20 to November 23 - 2 days
  • 1979 (President Jimmy Carter): September 30 to October 12 - 11 days
  • 1978 (President Jimmy Carter): September 30 to October 18 18 days
So I guess this time will be the one that really kills us. The main problem is Americans have memories of gnats.
Washington makes it's living out of scaring the American people into submission. See Covid mandates.
 
This argument is nothing new in Washington it has happened many times in the past. There has been shutdown's before and will be again. ... So I guess this time will be the one that really kills us. The main problem is Americans have memories of gnats. Washington makes it's living out of scaring the American people into submission. See Covid mandates.
I never said this one will destroy us. My point was this: How does a House Republican-engineered shutdown help the GOP in 2024?

Fact is, it doesn't.
 
I never said this one will destroy us. My point was this: How does a House Republican-engineered shutdown help the GOP in 2024?

Fact is, it doesn't.
I don't think it matters at all. Solidifies the base, and pisses off opposition. Bottom line is it won't make any real difference 13 months from now, that govt partially shuts down for a few days, and it has no effect on 99% of the population.
 
Gotta love using US servicemembers as pawns. The GOP is completely fuking over those who serve by straight up not paying them for who knows how long while cutting off all their base services.
 
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I am all for us being more fiscally responsible too. It's the reason I was once a registered Republican.

But show me ANY Republican President this century who could be described as "fiscally responsible"? And where the fcuk were those "We need to put the breaks on spending" Republican members of Congress during the Trump and Bush Presidencies??!?
The US Constitution is very clear and specific on who manages the money at the federal level and it's not the President. ALL Bills related to funding and taxation must originate in the House of Representatives. Congress has the power of the purse ,not the President . The President can either sign it or veto it ,but it's Congreses responsibility to figure the taxation and spending levels.
Prior to 9/11/01 we actually had proposed budgets ,with proposed taxes and spending and real negotiating. Since then the Federal government politicians , and yes its Republicans and Denocrats , have treated this process with abuse and the media has pitched it and their claims that everything is a crisis . If we don't act now ,if we don't spend now the sky will fall ( pick your subject) . It's constant crisis in DC and our thoughtless spending reflects it and in my observation every law passed has a title and if you flipp the title around that's what it really does . It does the apposite of what they claim.

Take the latest Inflation Reduction Act, it actually was the green new deal repackaged and has zero to do with inflation ,but in crisis mode we had to have it. It must be passed now to tame inflation. I don't care where you stand on climate change but the core trigger to inflation is the costs of energy and diesel fuel in particular. Our food is dependent upon diesel fuel for running tractors to pumps for irrigation and such. Our crops are fertilized by petrol chemical based fertilizers. The harvested crops are sent to market on trucks run on diesel. When the government restricts supply on oil and gas it sends a signal in the market to drive up prices on oil futures in the commodities market . That in turns drives up the prices of oil trades which in the end drives up energy costs . So when farmers have to pay essentially twice the amount for fuel and fertilizers guess what has to happen? Food prices go up. Then everything goes up .

I suppose my point is the government law which claims to do X really is doing Y and nothing to solve X other than making X worse .

I actually could care less if government shuts down for a few weeks. Part of me is jaded because the same assholes told me I had to close for 16 weeks during covid while Walmart ,target and others raked in the cash. My government didn't care about my business,my family or my crew. We gotta close because you're nonessential but for me my business was very essential to my family and our financial future. I am willing to bet very few here would actually notice a negative change in our lives if the government shut down for a few weeks . We need to shut the government down to slow the spread of spending. It's a crisis! 😆

I hate the Democrats for what they do and I can't stand the Republicans for what they don't do. My work,my time and my business contributes around $100k in revenue to the Federal government every year. And every year , politicians abuse it by wasting it, They waste it on interests paid on a debt that is out of control.

They ,the good Democrats and the idiot Republicans do not respect the time and work of the American middle class, the small businesses and the working folks of this nation. They insult us daily with the laws they pass which only drive up costs to live and exists here . They send our money all over the globe while homeless veterans starve and commit suicide.

They do nothing about the onslaught of humanity at the southern border mean while a few weeks ago in my community 3 illegal Honduran teens driving a car drunk (violating numerous state laws) crash over a cliff. Two of them die after being discovered about 18 hours after the accident and one is airlifted to a trauma one level hospital. Meanwhile you and I pick up the bill, well really I do because it happened in NC. That singular event costs tax payers well over $500,,000 between the extraction of the accident itself and the kid who was airlifted and provided ICU level life savings medical care . Yet Congress does ZERO! The tragic part of this is if those teenage boys stayed in Honduras they would be alive today. They came here unaccompanied because there was a plea to raise to money to send their dead bodies back to their parents in Honduras.

It's time for my government to respect its people and the work they do day in and day out to pay taxes to support it.
 
Gotta love using US servicemembers as pawns. The GOP is completely fuking over those who serve by straight up not paying them for who knows how long while cutting off all their base services.
They have never missed or cut off service member pay. If they do it this time it is on Biden. They shut down nonessential services, I would not put service members in that category, if Biden does it is one more sign he needs to go. Go learn a little not so long ago history.
 
It apparently is lost on these MAGA House Nutjobs that the debt ceiling isn't the place for negotiations on our future budget, it's about paying on our g'damned debt we've already rung up. We're really supposed to believe that Republicans are taking the debt ceiling approval process hostage because....they worry about our fiscal well-being??? Please spare us the bullsh*t.

I'm curious how forcing the government to default on our debt shows ANY fiscal responsiblity whatsoever? Bills won't be paid and Wall Street will go into freefall. Yeah, THAT'LL help things. SMH.
This fight is not over the debt ceiling, it is over future spending bills, that should have been done already. It is about the lack of a budget which has not been done in years inspite of the fact that the constitution requires it.
There is no budget nor bills done on time like they should because it is easier to spend like money is endless without the constraints of doing their damn job. This isn't the house's grand strategy it is about a fairly small # of congressmen n women fighting what is and has been going on. The majority of Republicans like handing out candy as much as the Dems do.
 
They have never missed or cut off service member pay. If they do it this time it is on Biden. They shut down nonessential services, I would not put service members in that category, if Biden does it is one more sign he needs to go. Go learn a little not so long ago history.

As usual, you are completely and utterly wrong. As it currently stands servicemembers will not get paid on time. There is no possible way this is Bidens fault.

You are a brainwashed moron. Do you honestly think you determine who is and who is not "nonessential"? US Active Duty service personnel will still be required to show up and put their lives on the line, but will not be paid on the 1st and 15th while the government is shut down due to insane Freedom Caucus morons.

No Protections for Troop Paychecks Yet as Lawmakers Bicker and Shutdown Grows More Likely​


 
The US Constitution is very clear and specific on who manages the money at the federal level and it's not the President. ALL Bills related to funding and taxation must originate in the House of Representatives. Congress has the power of the purse ,not the President . The President can either sign it or veto it ,but it's Congreses responsibility to figure the taxation and spending levels.
Prior to 9/11/01 we actually had proposed budgets ,with proposed taxes and spending and real negotiating. Since then the Federal government politicians , and yes its Republicans and Denocrats , have treated this process with abuse and the media has pitched it and their claims that everything is a crisis . If we don't act now ,if we don't spend now the sky will fall ( pick your subject) . It's constant crisis in DC and our thoughtless spending reflects it and in my observation every law passed has a title and if you flipp the title around that's what it really does . It does the apposite of what they claim.

Take the latest Inflation Reduction Act, it actually was the green new deal repackaged and has zero to do with inflation ,but in crisis mode we had to have it. It must be passed now to tame inflation. I don't care where you stand on climate change but the core trigger to inflation is the costs of energy and diesel fuel in particular. Our food is dependent upon diesel fuel for running tractors to pumps for irrigation and such. Our crops are fertilized by petrol chemical based fertilizers. The harvested crops are sent to market on trucks run on diesel. When the government restricts supply on oil and gas it sends a signal in the market to drive up prices on oil futures in the commodities market . That in turns drives up the prices of oil trades which in the end drives up energy costs . So when farmers have to pay essentially twice the amount for fuel and fertilizers guess what has to happen? Food prices go up. Then everything goes up .

I suppose my point is the government law which claims to do X really is doing Y and nothing to solve X other than making X worse .

I actually could care less if government shuts down for a few weeks. Part of me is jaded because the same assholes told me I had to close for 16 weeks during covid while Walmart ,target and others raked in the cash. My government didn't care about my business,my family or my crew. We gotta close because you're nonessential but for me my business was very essential to my family and our financial future. I am willing to bet very few here would actually notice a negative change in our lives if the government shut down for a few weeks . We need to shut the government down to slow the spread of spending. It's a crisis! 😆

I hate the Democrats for what they do and I can't stand the Republicans for what they don't do. My work,my time and my business contributes around $100k in revenue to the Federal government every year. And every year , politicians abuse it by wasting it, They waste it on interests paid on a debt that is out of control.

They ,the good Democrats and the idiot Republicans do not respect the time and work of the American middle class, the small businesses and the working folks of this nation. They insult us daily with the laws they pass which only drive up costs to live and exists here . They send our money all over the globe while homeless veterans starve and commit suicide.

They do nothing about the onslaught of humanity at the southern border mean while a few weeks ago in my community 3 illegal Honduran teens driving a car drunk (violating numerous state laws) crash over a cliff. Two of them die after being discovered about 18 hours after the accident and one is airlifted to a trauma one level hospital. Meanwhile you and I pick up the bill, well really I do because it happened in NC. That singular event costs tax payers well over $500,,000 between the extraction of the accident itself and the kid who was airlifted and provided ICU level life savings medical care . Yet Congress does ZERO! The tragic part of this is if those teenage boys stayed in Honduras they would be alive today. They came here unaccompanied because there was a plea to raise to money to send their dead bodies back to their parents in Honduras.

It's time for my government to respect its people and the work they do day in and day out to pay taxes to support it.
tl; dr. Who do you think you are?????
 
tl; dr. Who do you think you are?????
Does he honestly think anyone read that?
Season 9 Lol GIF by The Office
 
They have never missed or cut off service member pay. If they do it this time it is on Biden. They shut down nonessential services, I would not put service members in that category, if Biden does it is one more sign he needs to go. Go learn a little not so long ago history.
Blaming Biden for their failure is exactly why Gaetz and Greene pull this stuff. They cater to the lowest common denominator of morons with brains that have been eaten away by pool chemicals.
 
Blaming Biden for their failure is exactly why Gaetz and Greene pull this stuff. They cater to the lowest common denominator of morons with brains that have been eaten away by pool chemicals.
100%.

Sad to see it happen real time in the wild. The stupidity of the GOP is breathtaking.
 
As normal the whole it is horrible worrying is for nothing. House passes 45 day continue resolution. Now in senate hands.
 
It is normal Washington BS. … both sides want to continue the crisis bullshit.
Both sides are simply posturing and using it for PR purposes.
We always get this ‘both sides do it’ bullsh*t from goodknightfl. The fact is the this latest crisis was averted because enough Republicans and Democrats came together to stop it (uh, temporarily).

But the moron MAGA nutjobs in Congress now want to strip the Speaker of the House of his job for...(drumroll)....working with their Democrat counterparts!!??! OH THE HORROR!!!!!

It's been a long time since I took a class on our government but isn't working across the aisle to get legislation passed how its supposed to work?
 
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It was never a crisis, even if the shutdown happened for a few days. I don't care one way or the other, at the end of the day what was going to happen, happened. It is typical Washington BS. Both sides catering to their base that will send them back. Dems were holding the line to keep all spending in place and 0 changes to policy they put in place, and conservative republicans (notice I didn't say all Republicans) were pushing for cuts in spending and border enhancements they were never going to get.

The MAGA Reps are simply playing to their base with the replace the Speaker stuff, They have less than 70 votes. It is just more bs play for those who put them in. NONE of this crap matters.

In the end big Pharma and military industries will continue to get rich, Politicians will continue to get rich, we will add another 2 trillion to our already 30+ trillion-dollar debt. They all win, and average American's will lose. It is the game that is played there. It is nothing new, there was and was no crisis adverted.
They will go back to calling green spending bill an inflation busting bill and lump every kind of BS they can find into more spending bills and wait with bated breath for the next manufactured crisis
.Swampster review
 
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It was never a crisis...
Let me guess: Short-term, you don't have a job that would've been impacted by a shutdown. Long-term, you don't give a sh*t what it would've ADDED to the national deficit our stalwart MAGA Crowd tell us they care so much about.
Dems were holding the line to keep all spending in place and 0 changes to policy they put in place, and conservative republicans (notice I didn't say all Republicans) were pushing for cuts in spending and border enhancements they were never going to get.
The Dems negotiated spending cuts when the MAGA Crowd was threatening to default on the nation's debt.

Face it, the ONLY WORK that gets done in Congress is when some of the Republicans are 'courageous' enough to negotiate with the other side.
But as we're now learning, nowadays you can be thrown out of office is you do your job and get the two sides together on a bill.

Compromise is the heart of any democratic government. Maybe you'd prefer a dictator like Putin to run our government. Sorry, but not me.
 
In the end big Pharma and military industries will continue to get rich, Politicians will continue to get rich, we will add another 2 trillion to our already 30+ trillion-dollar debt. They all win, and average American's will lose.

...and you guys will still blame immigrants and poor people when the truth is right there in your face.
 
...and you guys will still blame immigrants and poor people when the truth is right there in your face.
While I want to get a handle on the border and the invasion of illegal immigrants, I don't blame the poor nor immigrants for the countries problems. Immigrants and poor don't have the power to screw things up. Politician's do.
 
Face it, the ONLY WORK that gets done in Congress is when some of the Republicans are 'courageous' enough to cave into the other side.
But as we're now learning, nowadays you can be thrown out of office is you do your job and get the two sides together on a bill.

Compromise is the heart of any democratic government. Maybe you'd prefer a dictator like Putin to run our government. Sorry, but not me.
fixed it for you. I am ok with compromise, but that is rarely what happens.
 
If you have priorities and give up on every one of them while giving the other side exactly what they want, that is a cave in not negotiation. That said at the end of the day they did what you wanted, and what I said they would do. There was no shutdown. It was highly unlikely that there would have been a shutdown, and if it did happen it would have been less than 3 days. It is and was a manufactured crisis.
I was not worried about a horrid calamity that was never going to happen. You had a total of 8 republican willing to run down that rabbit hole.
 
I was not worried about a horrid calamity that was never going to happen.
Let's be clear here: A horrid calamity---of the Republicans' own making. Just as the threat of a default on our national debt was of the Republicans' own making. That's not governing -- its nothing but political theatre; political grandstanding.

Ironically, I'm someone who IS concerned with our growing national debt. But no one is going to convince me those Republican clowns running Washington -- Matt Gaetz, Lauren Bobert, and Marjory Taylor Greene -- give a sh*t about anything other than their own self-aggrandizement.
 
The debt limit had already been extended. Debt payments would have been made. We were not going to default.
There is enough coming in to pay the interest on the debt, we never ever pay principle on the debt. I was not for shutting down, but also wasn't worried about a fake calamity. The Gov't has shut down 21 times since 1976,
There was no calamity when it closed. and Dems were in charge of the house and senate during a few of the shutdowns. It is awful if other side does it, ok if your side does it. Bottom line is it is all BS.
 
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