Americans oppose Iran deal 28/56

[UCFKnight85]

According to this new poll from Quinippiac:

Just a bunch of WARMONGERS!!! And FEAR MONGERS!!

The deal barely eeked out favorability amongst Democrats. Was crushed in every other column.

 

[UCFWayne]

racist!

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

You're just a terrorist that wants to see our troops killed. It's either this deal or we invade Iran, China and Russia!!!!

 

[goodknightfl]

KKK, Iran chapter.

 

[chemmie]

 

[Whataknight]

and this poll says the exact opposite

 

[anon_x731qvsnsyb8i]

Provided that Iran is doing the inspections on Iran with some UN guidance and very little from the West, and provided that Russia has just shipped them a missile defense-grid, yeah...it's an absolutely shitty deal.

 

[UCFEE]

Former secretary of State Albright had a great editorial on the issue. Pay careful attention to her third "key area", that's what is most important for the average American to understand... we're opening the door to influence even more change in Iran, which will help us empower those within Iran that oppose its hardline government (and there is plenty of opposition which will only grow as more people realize it has been their own government that has prevented them from thriving)

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/31/opinions/albright-iran-deal-diplomacy/index.html

As I've said before, if the world ignored a rare opportunity to gain more influence in the region (and prevent regular Iranians that oppose their hard line government from thriving economically), that only escalates tension and the global threat..... further, if Congress is somehow able to over turn this with the support of the dumb American electorate, it will generate more anger against America from people that see we allowed the oil and shale industries to dictate foreign policy in a way to benefit them at the expense of average Iranian citizens and at the expense of European allies who are already sending business envoys to the region... and all because our citizenry is clueless.

 

[UCFEE]

Here's the key that I doubt the American majority understands:

"It is not insignificant that senior American and Iranian officials have now had regular opportunities to interact and establish relationships. We should build on that, because Iran is not monolithic. It is a country where theocrats and reformers are present at the same time, where there are ideologues exporting hate and a sizable commercial class that wants to engage productively with the world.

It is in America's interest to cultivate good will with those Iranians who are dissatisfied with the international isolation Iran's external policies and unelected leaders have brought it. By showing Iran that international cooperation can bring tangible benefits, the agreement provides them with reason to push for further change."

 

[UCFWayne]

UCFEE, are you cool with restaurants doing their own health inspections? Especially ones that have had violations in the past.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I love it.

Polls show support for a Democratic initiative. "Vindication of program."

Polls show disapproval for Democratic initiative. "People are just dumb!"

Like clockwork.

 

[UCFEE]

You're buying propaganda Wayne. I've already addressed Parchin and linked to the IAEAs response to the AP propaganda piece. Here it is again: https://www.iaea.org/press/?p=5108

Think about it: What incentive does the IAEA have to make it more difficult to carry out its mission? Now what incentives do U.S. congressmen have for limiting competition for middle eastern oil service contracts and preventing additional downward price pressures on crude (hint: who has been contributing to their campaigns at very high levels since 2012?)

 

[80'sKnight]

Here's the key that I doubt the American majority understands:

"It is not insignificant that senior American and Iranian officials have now had regular opportunities to interact and establish relationships. We should build on that, because Iran is not monolithic. It is a country where theocrats and reformers are present at the same time, where there are ideologues exporting hate and a sizable commercial class that wants to engage productively with the world.

It is in America's interest to cultivate good will with those Iranians who are dissatisfied with the international isolation Iran's external policies and unelected leaders have brought it. By showing Iran that international cooperation can bring tangible benefits, the agreement provides them with reason to push for further change."

The key that I guess many Americans and you don't understand is that American officials have had behind closed doors interactions with the moderate Iranians for decades. It's just now we're having interactions with the WRONG type of Iranian. Both US parties have tried to boost the moderates, it's just with this nutjob president that we decide to deal with the radicals.

 

[UCFEE]

The key that I guess many Americans and you don't understand is that American officials have had behind closed doors interactions with the moderate Iranians for decades. It's just now we're having interactions with the WRONG type of Iranian. Both US parties have tried to boost the moderates, it's just with this nutjob president that we decide to deal with the radicals.

What's nutty about dealing with the radicals?? The whole point is to weaken the radicals and strengthen the moderates. This agreement does that. The only people that do question it are those with other agendas, but the FACTS don't support their claims... they never had, but that doesn't stop the propaganda, and doesn't stop the clueless from lapping it up.

 

[UCFKnight85]

You're buying propaganda Wayne. I've already addressed Parchin and linked to the IAEAs response to the AP propaganda piece. Here it is again: https://www.iaea.org/press/?p=5108

Think about it: What incentive does the IAEA have to make it more difficult to carry out its mission? Now what incentives do U.S. congressmen have for limiting competition for middle eastern oil service contracts and preventing additional downward price pressures on crude (hint: who has been contributing to their campaigns at very high levels since 2012?)

You're talking about propaganda while you swing a conspiracy that involves every single person in Congress that opposes the deal being influenced by shadow companies wanting to influence the global price of oil by keeping Iran out.

LOL

Jesus, you're hilarious to watch.

 

[UCFWayne]

You're buying propaganda Wayne. I've already addressed Parchin and linked to the IAEAs response to the AP propaganda piece. Here it is again: https://www.iaea.org/press/?p=5108

Think about it: What incentive does the IAEA have to make it more difficult to carry out its mission? Now what incentives do U.S. congressmen have for limiting competition for middle eastern oil service contracts and preventing additional downward price pressures on crude (hint: who has been contributing to their campaigns at very high levels since 2012?)

You avoided my question.

Are you cool with restaurants doing their own health inspections?

 

[UCFKnight85]

What's nutty about dealing with the radicals?? The whole point is to weaken the radicals and strengthen the moderates. This agreement does that. The only people that do question it are those with other agendas, but the FACTS don't support their claims... they never had, but that doesn't stop the propaganda, and doesn't stop the clueless from lapping it up.

Only a naïve liberal like you would think that this in any way will weaken the headliners in Tehran. They would have NEVER even entered into hese talks if they thought that this would erode their power. And the story about all of these "reformers" throughout Iran is a narrative pushed by the NYT and gobbled up by people like you.

 

[UCFEE]

You avoided my question.

Are you cool with restaurants doing their own health inspections?

Your question is irrelevant because Iranians will not be doing their own inspections. You got that idea from the report about Parchin which has since been debunked.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Yep, the hardliner power is really going to fade away!

"Also on Saturday, an aide to Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei dismissed claims by British Foreign Secretary Phillip Hammond that Tehran had changed its stance on Israel, insisting that fighting the “illegal Zionist regime” is an ongoing policy of the Islamic Republic, the semi-official Fars news agency reported.
“[The] fight against the illegal Zionist regime is one of the immutable policies of Iran, which has always been maintained,” said Seyed Mahmoud Nabavi, the ayatollah’s aide.

Nabavi said Hammond’s comments were “incorrect, since one of the driving goals of the Islamic Revolution has been the campaign against the arrogant powers,” according to Fars.
“We haven’t recognized the Zionist regime since the beginning of the Islamic Revolution and such a policy will continue,” Nabavi added."

 

[UCFEE]

Only a naïve liberal like you would think that this in any way will weaken the headliners in Tehran. They would have NEVER even entered into hese talks if they thought that this would erode their power. And the story about all of these "reformers" throughout Iran is a narrative pushed by the NYT and gobbled up by people like you.

Right. It's just me, most of the leaders of the western world (current and former), and most academics who have dedicated their lives to studying foreign policy. Such a naïve group.

Meanwhile, the guy in congress who was elected by a bunch of uneducated Tennessee hicks and has accepted money hand over fist from the oil and shale industries is the one you put your trust in on matters of such enormous scale.

 

[80'sKnight]

What's nutty about dealing with the radicals?? The whole point is to weaken the radicals and strengthen the moderates. This agreement does that. The only people that do question it are those with other agendas, but the FACTS don't support their claims... they never had, but that doesn't stop the propaganda, and doesn't stop the clueless from lapping it up.

I'll try to get you on point. You said "Here's the key that I doubt the American majority understands:

"It is not insignificant that senior American and Iranian officials have now had regular opportunities to interact and establish relationships. We should build on that, "

I guess I should have stated my point clearer. If that is the "key" to this agreement, then it is complete crap. The US has dealt with both nutty dictators, and with their freedom fighters be it actual para-military or just their political opponents around the world for 100s of years. This is nothing new, and certainly is not "key" since we have been for decades dealing with Iran, both the religious and the moderates. So, once again, if the reason to accept this deal is because of the "key" of establishing relationships, then we can safely destroy this deal because the "key" has been happening for decades. And it truly must be lala land if you think the deal hurts the religious group at all.

 

[UCFWayne]

Your question is irrelevant because Iranians will not be doing their own inspections. You got that idea from the report about Parchin which has since been debunked.

I believe the agreement is confidential, and hasnt been made public. Im not taking any of these people at their word, and neither should you.

Here is a link to the Boulder, CO restaurants inspections. http://www.bouldercounty.org/family/disease/pages/restaurantinspect.aspx

Feel free to search for the ones that are deemed unacceptable and report back on your experience.

 

[UCFEE]

Yep, the hardliner power is really going to fade away!

"Also on Saturday, an aide to Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei dismissed claims by British Foreign Secretary Phillip Hammond that Tehran had changed its stance on Israel, insisting that fighting the “illegal Zionist regime” is an ongoing policy of the Islamic Republic, the semi-official Fars news agency reported.
“[The] fight against the illegal Zionist regime is one of the immutable policies of Iran, which has always been maintained,” said Seyed Mahmoud Nabavi, the ayatollah’s aide.

Nabavi said Hammond’s comments were “incorrect, since one of the driving goals of the Islamic Revolution has been the campaign against the arrogant powers,” according to Fars.
“We haven’t recognized the Zionist regime since the beginning of the Islamic Revolution and such a policy will continue,” Nabavi added."

So U.S. propaganda isn't enough for you, you have to link to Iranian propaganda? Who gives a shit about their talk? Power is what matters, and the West is exercising that power properly. The only ones who do not believe that are the ones fooled by congressmen with an agenda.

I've made my point, and the fact is this deal is going forward. There will not be a super majority to override the president's veto. You can dig yourself a bunker and buy big boy diapers for when the fear is too much, but fact is the world is going to move in the right direction and we're all going to be fine.

 

[80'sKnight]

Right. It's just me, most of the leaders of the western world (current and former), and most academics who have dedicated their lives to studying foreign policy. Such a naïve group.

Meanwhile, the guy in congress who was elected by a bunch of uneducated Tennessee hicks and has accepted money hand over fist from the oil and shale industries is the one you put your trust in on matters of such enormous scale.

I love this quote, you poor fool, you do realize the same uneducated voted for the president don't you, and the other leaders of the western world? And I think you need to study the actual output of a lot of academics so you can actually see that they don't agree with each other and constantly fight over foreign policy issues and take completely different stances on many issues. So they aren't always right either, tho they can give their best educated guess.

 

[UCFEE]

I'll try to get you on point. You said "Here's the key that I doubt the American majority understands:

"It is not insignificant that senior American and Iranian officials have now had regular opportunities to interact and establish relationships. We should build on that, "

I guess I should have stated my point clearer. If that is the "key" to this agreement, then it is complete crap. The US has dealt with both nutty dictators, and with their freedom fighters be it actual para-military or just their political opponents around the world for 100s of years. This is nothing new, and certainly is not "key" since we have been for decades dealing with Iran, both the religious and the moderates. So, once again, if the reason to accept this deal is because of the "key" of establishing relationships, then we can safely destroy this deal because the "key" has been happening for decades. And it truly must be lala land if you think the deal hurts the religious group at all.

The "key" that I highlighted is the piece I feel most Americans that polled in opposition to the deal do not understand; that Iran actually has moderates in the country. There are obviously more "keys" to the deal than building the relationships and empowering moderates. Albright covered many of them in the op ed.

 

[UCFEE]

I love this quote, you poor fool, you do realize the same uneducated voted for the president don't you, and the other leaders of the western world? And I think you need to study the actual output of a lot of academics so you can actually see that they don't agree with each other and constantly fight over foreign policy issues and take completely different stances on many issues. So they aren't always right either, tho they can give their best educated guess.

Poor fool huh? Make sure to get your big boy diapers too, because the agreement is going forward.

 

[anon_x731qvsnsyb8i]

Poor fool huh? Make sure to get your big boy diapers too, because the agreement is going forward.

So is Russia...enabling their defense grid.

Have some iodine pills? Might need them someday...

 

[UCFKnight85]

EE is honestly one of the most unhinged people on this board.

 

[UCFEE]

Yeeeeeeeowe, crazy ole EE, talkin his crazy ole crazy talk again

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

WHATACHART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mach3ucf]

Iran's legislature upon hearing about the deal in unison chanted Death to America..
Yup... All I gotta say is this.. Do not be mad when Iran does what even our allies did, which is break their word and build a bomb..
Pakistan, India, and North Korea, all said do not worry, our nuclear program is not to build a bomb.
Yet all 3 now have more than a bomb....

 

[MACHater02]

 

[UCFKnight85]

The armed wing of the Ayatollah's regime came out today and promised that the US is still the enemy of Iran, that US businesses will never enter into trade with the country, and that they'll do everything to oppose any/all US influence in the country.

Yep, sure sounds like we'll be trading partners any day now!*

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/02/w...great-satan-hard-liners-in-iran-say.html?_r=0

 

[UCFEE]

We're heading in the right direction. Empowering moderates to push for regime change internally, while getting more insight in to the regimes activites. Sounds like a win-win for most.

The deal is done, today annoinced that there's enough Senate support for the president to veto any resolution of disappoval from the corrupted in congress. Deal with it.

 

[UCFKnight85]

We're heading in the right direction. Empowering moderates to push for regime change internally, while getting more insight in to the regimes activites. Sounds like a win-win for most.

The deal is done, today annoinced that there's enough Senate support for the president to veto any resolution of disappoval from the corrupted in congress. Deal with it.

LOL

Why on earth would we suddenly start getting information on the regime activities?

You're incredible delusional. You should be examined by medical professionals.

 

[UCFEE]

LOL

Why on earth would we suddenly start getting information on the regime activities?

You're incredible delusional. You should be examined by medical professionals.

Uh huh. Did you buy you diapers yet?

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Uh huh. Did you buy you diapers yet?

 

[fabknight]

Uh huh. Did you buy you diapers yet?

That got a LOL out of me. Good thing I'm in an office.

 

[MACHater02]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

 

[mach3ucf]

Parchin is not a Nuclear Site, and is not in the deal.. I do not know why your would want a place that has nothing to do with Nuclear material on the inspection list? This is only where US Intel believes that Iran was building parts to build a Nuclear Weapon, I do not think the deal is bad!!

If you get are breaking the law you should be given 24 days notice of Police Inspection, here in the USA as well..

If you are pulled over, you get to take home a drug / alcohol test to see if you you were driving under the influence.. You get to take you own test and bring it back to the authorities, I am sure everyone will be honest with law enforcement..

The good news is this is what the Democrats are ok with.. Not one sentence about Iran's Human Rights violations? I guess all 34 that vote yes are ok with this?