Oh, that's cool. Just let them in, as long as it is only liberals diddling them.
What the hell are you talking about? Anyone trafficking anyone for sex slaves needs to be thrown in prison.
Amir Locke
- Thread starter sk8knight
- Start date
What the hell are you talking about? Anyone trafficking anyone for sex slaves needs to be thrown in prison.
Well what the hell are you talking about the catholic church for? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes dummy.
It is absolutely due process. Legislatively defined, judicially affirmed, and followed by the police as far as we know. Just because you call yourself a libertarian doesn’t mean that all of that is null and void.
I have no desire to be a policeman, so it would be a lot, but what does that have to do with anything? Nobody is forced to be an officer. And why did you avoid responding to basically my entire post?
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I have serious Constitutional issues with that assertion, and it's utterly key to the problem.
As I said, this is where Conservatives make me cringe.
SWAT militarization and training has nothing to do with the chronic f'up of using their skills on the innocent and petty criminals, repeatedly, where they never belonged and there have been repeat violations of the Bill of Rights. This entire attitude and making it standard police procedure is completely un-American as a whole.
And it's only getting worse.
Hyperbole. No-knocks arent standard procedure. You are skewing the line between libertarian and anarchist when you go down this road, FWIW.
I dont agree with him on much, but he is right on this and what he is saying isnt anarchy. Better policing is still policing.
And there's the A-word.
Do you realize that's now so overused towards Libertarians that we wear it like a badge now?!
"Only anarchists think 'no knock warrants' are not due process!"
Do you guys realize how ludicrous that sound?!
Oh. Sorry to offend you, but I don't support rapist and those who cover them up. I don't support murderers, either. And I don't come up with excuses why either should be tolerated in any case.
Because I asked you that question when you flippantly said that more money would attract good people. I’m assuming you’re a good person so I wanted to know how much money it would take to make you think that being a police officer is a viable option for you. You didn’t answer it anywhere in that scrawl of a response so I asked again. And you still haven’t answered. Is it $100k? $200k? What is your number?
I totally agree.
Way, way too many Conservatives are looking at this all wrong, and utterly support expanded statism. They don't realize the police procedures are making it tougher on the police too!
All while they are utterly nuking civil rights.
Libertarians are ultimately nothing more than feckless anarchists. A no-knock warrant may be the safest and most effective way to deal with a dangerous situation, and yet you think they are a basic infringement on someone's rights regardless of the circumstances. There's nothing practical or pragmatic about that position and that's why it's little more than an anarchists position.
And there we go, 'regardless of the circumstances' ... absolutism. Absolutism to justify the fact that they are now heavily used for things that have nothing to do with such situations.
Expansion of statism has everything to do with taking the worst case reasoning, while applying it to everything else, and telling everyone that society would break down without such ... 'power.'
Asset forfeiture and countless other 'powers' have reached this point as well.
Life in prison, no parole for this guy ... once again, over $20 worth of drugs!
(this guy was white, but statistically it ensares African-Americans the most)
This is literally standard procedure to knock down the door first, then identify later.
The problem is, as always, standard police procedure! It's not about police!
'She said she initially thought it was police but said the door crashing in "made me completely doubt it." She said she expected police would knock and say something before breaking in, based on what she's seen on TV shows like "Cops"
...
The tactical team members testified that they sneak up on a search warrant target until they break in, and then begin yelling, "Milwaukee police, search warrant." That is heard on the bodycam videos as soon as they knock open the ground-level exterior door to the duplex ...
Only two or three seconds passed, Powell estimated, between Rittner's smashing of the door and the shots; she wasn't even sure which came first, though police body cam video clearly shows the shots came after the third strike from a battering ram ... She said she knew it was really police after the shots when a bright light came shining in through the broken door and she could see a police shield. She described how Fricke bent down and slid the ... rifle away from him on the floor then got on his knees, and crawled to the door at officer's command, unlocked it, stood up and was taken down by the officers.
...
He said the tactical unit knows little about the underlying investigation that leads to a search warrant. He said he gets information from the investigators to form a plan, and that it's up to the judge who authorizes the search, not him, to designate it as a "no-knock" warrant.'
(this guy was white, but statistically it ensares African-Americans the most)
'But Chernin pointed out that Fricke's drug sale that supported the search warrant was $20 worth of marijuana, and that he didn't keep or sell large amounts of weed. He also told jurors that Fricke, who has no prior criminal record, had a concealed carry permit and that all his guns were legal.'
Wannabe gangster or lawful gun owner defending home? Jurors hear 2 versions of Jordan Fricke
DA calls man charged in officer's death 'a wannabe gangster,' while defense attorney reminds all guns were legal, and says Jordan Fricke acted in self-defense
www.jsonline.com
This is literally standard procedure to knock down the door first, then identify later.
The problem is, as always, standard police procedure! It's not about police!
'She said she initially thought it was police but said the door crashing in "made me completely doubt it." She said she expected police would knock and say something before breaking in, based on what she's seen on TV shows like "Cops"
...
The tactical team members testified that they sneak up on a search warrant target until they break in, and then begin yelling, "Milwaukee police, search warrant." That is heard on the bodycam videos as soon as they knock open the ground-level exterior door to the duplex ...
Only two or three seconds passed, Powell estimated, between Rittner's smashing of the door and the shots; she wasn't even sure which came first, though police body cam video clearly shows the shots came after the third strike from a battering ram ... She said she knew it was really police after the shots when a bright light came shining in through the broken door and she could see a police shield. She described how Fricke bent down and slid the ... rifle away from him on the floor then got on his knees, and crawled to the door at officer's command, unlocked it, stood up and was taken down by the officers.
...
He said the tactical unit knows little about the underlying investigation that leads to a search warrant. He said he gets information from the investigators to form a plan, and that it's up to the judge who authorizes the search, not him, to designate it as a "no-knock" warrant.'
Jordan Fricke's girlfriend describes chaotic, terrifying seconds before Officer Matthew Rittner's death
She said the AK-47 Jordan Fricke used to shoot Officer Matthew Rittner typically hung from the headboard of his bed, or sat atop a safe that served as a nightstand.
www.jsonline.com
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Standard procedure my friends ... the majority over marijuana ... weed people!
www.pbs.org
'Data collected by Kraska shows that municipal police and sheriffs’ departments used no-knock or quick-knock warrants about 1,500 times in the early 1980s, but that number rose to about 40,000 times per year by 2000, he said. In 2010, Kraska estimated 60,000-70,000 no-knock or quick-knock raids were conducted by local police annually. The majority of those raids were looking for marijuana, he added.'
The war on drugs gave rise to ‘no-knock’ warrants. Breonna Taylor’s death could end them
While Taylor’s death has brought renewed attention to no-knock warrants, the practice has long faced criticism for the injuries and deaths sustained in the process.
www.pbs.org
All No Knock warrants that don't involve murder, rape, or kidnapping should be BANNED IMMEDIATELY. Many cops lose their life as well to this stupid practice.
I would be ok with that but I have a question. Is the organized crime group dealing crack out of the abandoned house on the corner that has amassed an armory of weapons but isn't currently under suspicion for a specific murder, rape, or kidnapping a candidate?
How about the meth lab in an apartment in a large complex?
Again ...
'In 2010, Kraska estimated 60,000-70,000 no-knock or quick-knock raids were conducted by local police annually. The majority of those raids were looking for marijuana, he added.'
Let's talk the majority of cases that are 'standard procedure' now! We need to reverse the non-sense of the 21st century. The utter lack of justification is why this is out-of-hand.
We read it the first time, it doesn't get any more insightful because you repeated it. Your logic in this one segment doesn't even make sense. Not even addressing that Kraska using the early 80's as a baseline is extremely convenient because it ignores anything that happened between then and now. Nor that the article that you posted is simply a slanted opinion piece bolstered by some selected information that fits the argument that doesn't prove anything because it takes no other perspective into account. The article did bring up some compelling cases for further limiting no-knock warrants that I think everyone can agree upon. Like not trying to apprehend a suspect in a home where the whole family (children and all) is present.
You may think that there is no justification for a raid on marijuana but you can't say that and then talk about the scourge of organized crime out of the other side of your mouth. They're not raiding people for personal amounts of weed. Most jurisdictions won't even write the ticket for personal amounts anymore even where weed is illegal.
No-knock raids are not standard procedure for local law enforcement. I have no idea what federal does but that's the bottom line for local.
I'll try to make my position clear. I am up for a discussion of whether no-knocks are appropriate in this day and age but I also can acknowledge both sides of the argument. There are very real situations where no-knocks are safer for everyone and there are situations where they are the only tool to apprehend dangerous criminals. Conversely, I can acknowledge that they are dangerous and the warrant executed against Locke is an example of how they can go very wrong. So maybe their use should be retired or maybe not.
In the case of the Minneapolis PD, there's a bunch about this particular no-knock that is concerning. I'm leaning towards the position that they never should've executed to no-knock. But I'm also strongly against prosecuting the officers that executed the no-knock given the information that we know now. That could change upon new information coming out. If those officers are prosecuted (and the SA's office has already made a statement that they're looking into it), IMO they will be found guilty regardless of the facts of the case that are presented in court.
Biden pushed for more funding for local police in early February, that is true. However, that came after they got a huge amount of pushback for a proposed executive order that would impose new restrictions to the 1033 program, expanding federal authority over patterns and practices, planned expansion of 18 U.S.C § 242 prosecutions, and force dependencies for state and local law enforcement grants on conditions that Congress hasn't and probably won't set. This would've been a huge cut in federal assistance for law enforcement.
I would bet my mortgage that I personally know a great many more police officers than you do and interact with them on a daily basis. You constantly call out the outlier officer and that is unfair. You do it from ignorance and blind trust in your media consumption. I highly suggest that you (and anyone) go sign up for a few ride-alongs with a metro PD.
I could also caution against judgmental absolutism but then these discussions would be no fun at all.
Although this is getting rather partisan rather quick ...
I cannot deny @Cubs79 and @chemmie make good points at times.
Indeed. And innocent people are being repeatedly harmed, not just killed, over what ... ? Drug possession? $20 of weed to an undercover agent?
Agreed. But Progressives should also admit ...
Biden-Harris were the worst criminal justice reform candidates in the entire Democratic party. The hypocrisy is so thick that many left-wing talking heads said they'd wouldn't vote for, or even threatened to leave the party, if either Biden or Harris won the nominiation.
But they 'fell in line' once they won. Sigh ...
It's not the police talent. There is a lot of great talent. It's standard police procedures.
Those police procedures put both innocent people and the police themselves in harms way. We've also militarize the police, so much so they have military MRAPs and other vehicles designed to put down domestic insurrection.
This is literally the absolute definition of 'police state,' where both the people and the police lose, and are set up against one another! Voters of both parties need to wake the **** up and realize ... they are trying to make us all criminals!
So, here's the counter to that ...
The average cop is still more principled, far better trained and do far more good than not just the general population, but the criminals.
So, this is where Progressives lose Moderates, instead of just Conservatives, too. Please use 'common sense.'
I.e., do not go there! Focus on the civil liberties and the police procedures of 'tough on crime' since the mid '90s. That's the argument!
Just to be clear ... I do not blame the police, but police procedure largely due to politicians and lawyer (including judges).
I also am tired of non-violent offenders being the victims of no-knock. If they were violent offenders, I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem. But the supermajority are non-violent offenders, and hardly 'hard' drugs, usually just weed.
I'm at the point that this has become such non-sense, I want to outlaw all no-knocks and force lawyers and procedures to be re-written to justify any. That's the only way that is now acceptable to me ...
Because it's such a load of shit at this point how much city/county/state lawyers get no-knocks without any justification of an offender being violent or even organized crime.
I also am tired of non-violent offenders being the victims of no-knock. If they were violent offenders, I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem. But the supermajority are non-violent offenders, and hardly 'hard' drugs, usually just weed.
I'm at the point that this has become such non-sense, I want to outlaw all no-knocks and force lawyers and procedures to be re-written to justify any. That's the only way that is now acceptable to me ...
Because it's such a load of shit at this point how much city/county/state lawyers get no-knocks without any justification of an offender being violent or even organized crime.
And now…. The rest of the story. (Without comment on whether is was necessary or not.)
This was in connection to a shooting in downtown Pensacola.
“"Due to the high risk nature of the incident, SWAT was utilized to serve the search warrant. Members of SWAT knocked and announced their presence and waited approximately 15 seconds before opening the residence’s door," Pensacola Police said in an updated release on Monday.” (Although it may have been 10 seconds)
“After the search warrant was served, two children who were inside the residence were in the backseat of a car with a PPD investigator while they were waiting on family members to arrive to pick them up. A large vehicle approached that needed assistance navigating through the vehicles that were in the road. The investigator got out of the backseat to assist the driver. One of the children was leaning on the door of the car when the investigator opened it to get back in, and fell out of the car. The investigator wasn’t aware that the child was leaning on the door. The child was checked by EMS for injuries. Both children were later released to family members.”
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