Bad poll for Bernie

[Crazyhole]

https://www.usnews.com/news/electio...t-vote-for-a-socialist-presidential-candidate


Only 45% of US voters would vote for a socialist, which is lower than the number that would vote for a Muslim or a homosexual.

 

[UCFWayne]

what a bunch of racists!*

 

[UCFKnight85]

It's alarmingly pathetic that even 45% of Americans would.

 

[btbones]

It's alarmingly pathetic that even 45% of Americans would.

This . It should be zero

 

[Crazyhole]

64% of voters say they are better off now than they were 4 years ago

 

[fried-chicken]

Willingness to Vote for Candidates With Diverse Characteristics, by Party ID
% Yes, would vote for that person
Republican Independent Democrat
Black 91 97 99
Catholic 95 94 97
Hispanic 90 94 99
A woman 86 95 99
Jewish 92 92 95
An evangelical Christian 88 77 77
Gay or lesbian 62 82 89
Under the age of 40 63 72 75
Over the age of 70 73 68 66
Muslim 42 71 88
An atheist 41 68 69
A socialist 17 45 76


Holy shit the Republican party is full of scumbags. Jesus.

1/10 would never vote for a black person
1/10 would never vote for a Hispanic
1/7 would never vote for a woman
1/11 wouldn't vote for someone who is Jewish
1/2 wouldn't vote for someone who is gay

Nuke this party to the ground, holy shit it's literally every dirtbag in America.

 

[Boosted87]

This . It should be zero

I think it's because of different ways people define these terms. When we say capitalism, we're really talking about a modern mixed economy like we have. We don't take it to mean an absolute form of capitalism with zero state intervention. You can be a "capitalist" yet still support public schools, public roads, social security, medicare, etc.

But if you say socialist, the tendency is to push that to an extreme and assume it means nationalizing everything with communist style command and control. The older you are, the more socialism means that to you. People who are identifying socialism with Bernie's version of "democratic socialism" don't find the word nearly as scary.

I think - ironically - alot of this is because of the right. They've been throwing the world socialist around like crazy in recent years and it's losing it's edge. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

 

[Crazyhole]

I think it's because of different ways people define these terms. When we say capitalism, we're really talking about a modern mixed economy like we have. We don't take it to mean an absolute form of capitalism with zero state intervention. You can be a "capitalist" yet still support public schools, public roads, social security, medicare, etc.

But if you say socialist, the tendency is to push that to an extreme and assume it means nationalizing everything with communist style command and control. The older you are, the more socialism means that to you. People who are identifying socialism with Bernie's version of "democratic socialism" don't find the word nearly as scary.

I think - ironically - alot of this is because of the right. They've been throwing the world socialist around like crazy in recent years and it's losing it's edge. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

The problem with the term "socialism" is that it's both an economic model as well as a governmental one. Pro-socialism advocates try to claim that police, schools, fire departments, roads, etc are exclusively socialist when in reality they are typically of every form of modern government. Capitalism is strictly an economic term. Capitalism does not mean there are no public services, its just a description of how a countries economy is structured.

In all honesty, democratic socialism isnt even a thing, in theory it's just democracy but in practice such a thing doesnt exist and never has. Even countries that claim to be democratic socialist still have legislative representation. Imagine a situation where every issue is voted on via public referendum. It doesnt exist.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Willingness to Vote for Candidates With Diverse Characteristics, by Party ID
% Yes, would vote for that person
Republican Independent Democrat
Black 91 97 99
Catholic 95 94 97
Hispanic 90 94 99
A woman 86 95 99
Jewish 92 92 95
An evangelical Christian 88 77 77
Gay or lesbian 62 82 89
Under the age of 40 63 72 75
Over the age of 70 73 68 66
Muslim 42 71 88
An atheist 41 68 69
A socialist 17 45 76


Holy shit the Republican party is full of scumbags. Jesus.

1/10 would never vote for a black person
1/10 would never vote for a Hispanic
1/7 would never vote for a woman
1/11 wouldn't vote for someone who is Jewish
1/2 wouldn't vote for someone who is gay

Nuke this party to the ground, holy shit it's literally every dirtbag in America.

Lmao imagine being upset about voting for a socialist while being part of this disgusting party.

 

[fried-chicken]

Lmao imagine being upset about voting for a socialist while being part of this disgusting party.

The numbers are insane. I mean just straight up not voting for ANY black person at 10% of the Republican party. That's crazy. I don't understand why they get mad when we say they are racists. They just are.

15% would never vote for any woman. Like what the hell haha these truly are the bottom of the barrel shit stains of America.

 

[UCFKnight85]

The numbers are insane. I mean just straight up not voting for ANY black person at 10% of the Republican party. That's crazy. I don't understand why they get mad when we say they are racists. They just are.

If you'd take a break from faux crying over this, mind linking to the actual poll you cited?

 

[fried-chicken]

If you'd take a break from faux crying over this, mind linking to the actual poll you cited?

It's crazyholes poll

 

[UCFKnight85]

I think it's because of different ways people define these terms. When we say capitalism, we're really talking about a modern mixed economy like we have. We don't take it to mean an absolute form of capitalism with zero state intervention. You can be a "capitalist" yet still support public schools, public roads, social security, medicare, etc.

But if you say socialist, the tendency is to push that to an extreme and assume it means nationalizing everything with communist style command and control. The older you are, the more socialism means that to you. People who are identifying socialism with Bernie's version of "democratic socialism" don't find the word nearly as scary.

I think - ironically - alot of this is because of the right. They've been throwing the world socialist around like crazy in recent years and it's losing it's edge. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

Or maybe, people just really don't like socialism and aren't duped by dumb attempts to trick people by throwing around "Democratic Socialist" as some cuddly reframing of what is a failed economic philosophy? Socialism is an economic policy, not a governmental system, so throwing around "democratic" is meaningless aside from trying to repackage something for the gullible.

We have a mixed economy but we are, without question, a capitalist country. Someone flatly saying they're a socialist implies that they fundamentally want to overturn the very basic tenants of our economic system and reign in collectivism and deterioration of private property rights. It's not just a tweek on the mixed economy meter, it's a full overthrow.

You can tell me how much Sanders just wants us to be like Denmark all you want, but it's disingenuous. Bernie Sanders didn't honeymoon in Norway, he went to the USSR. He didn't visit Denmark to assess the awesome merits of Scandinavian Welfare, he went to Latin America to tour the super awesome communist regimes actively fighting US foreign policy.

 

[Boosted87]

The problem with the term "socialism" is that it's both an economic model as well as a governmental one. Pro-socialism advocates try to claim that police, schools, fire departments, roads, etc are exclusively socialist when in reality they are typically of every form of modern government. Capitalism is strictly an economic term. Capitalism does not mean there are no public services, its just a description of how a countries economy is structured.

In all honesty, democratic socialism isnt even a thing, in theory it's just democracy but in practice such a thing doesnt exist and never has. Even countries that claim to be democratic socialist still have legislative representation. Imagine a situation where every issue is voted on via public referendum. It doesnt exist.

Fair points. I think this is precisely why it's confusing. The word "socialism" means different things to different people. One person reads it and thinks communism, someone else reads it and thinks of the Nordic "Social Democracies."

But you're being to literal in your read of "democracy." That pretty much just means that people vote for their leaders. It's even defined that way in dictionaries. You have to say "direct democracy" if you're trying to imply no representation.

 

[firm_bizzle]

I would prefer a Muslim homosexual over Bernie.

 

[KNIGHTTIME^]

People that like socialism either work in government which promotes the ruling class mindset of socialism or lazy leeches of society.

 

[firm_bizzle]

People that like socialism either work in government which promotes the ruling class mindset of socialism or lazy leeches of society.

Or want a different use for tax dollars.

 

[UCFan9906]

The numbers are insane. I mean just straight up not voting for ANY black person at 10% of the Republican party. That's crazy. I don't understand why they get mad when we say they are racists. They just are.

15% would never vote for any woman. Like what the hell haha these truly are the bottom of the barrel shit stains of America.

So, by the 10% threshold that makes you 100% an ass*

 

[NinjaKnight]

The numbers are insane. I mean just straight up not voting for ANY black person at 10% of the Republican party. That's crazy. I don't understand why they get mad when we say they are racists. They just are.

15% would never vote for any woman. Like what the hell haha these truly are the bottom of the barrel shit stains of America.

Remember when @UCFWayne started a thread to brag about how only 1/3 of the Texas state GOP were openly racist. He was actually proud of that number for some insane reason.


Trump's GOP is truly a vile and disgusting thing, a treasonous cancer to America. This board is proof of that.

 

[fried-chicken]

So, by the 10% threshold that makes you 100% an ass*

I'm not a member of the party where 1 out of every 10 people will only vote for white people. Hahaha.

 

[firm_bizzle]

The numbers are insane. I mean just straight up not voting for ANY black person at 10% of the Republican party. That's crazy. I don't understand why they get mad when we say they are racists. They just are.

15% would never vote for any woman. Like what the hell haha these truly are the bottom of the barrel shit stains of America.

#deplorables

 

[UCFKnight85]

Lol at Democrats being the massive outlier in wanting to elect a socialist

 

[Crazyhole]

Fair points. I think this is precisely why it's confusing. The word "socialism" means different things to different people. One person reads it and thinks communism, someone else reads it and thinks of the Nordic "Social Democracies."

But you're being to literal in your read of "democracy." That pretty much just means that people vote for their leaders. It's even defined that way in dictionaries. You have to say "direct democracy" if you're trying to imply no representation.

To me, "democratic socialism" is just a marketing ploy that authoritarians use. Lenin coined the term once he realized that the term "communist" was unpopular and the same tactic has been used by Chavez and Castro. It comes across as being benign but the end goal is always the same: statist authoritarianism. They want you to think that since they say "democratic" that you'll be in control, playing on the human instinct of wanting power over their own circumstances and creating a victim mentality (someone is keeping you from achieving your dreams). Its no surprise that healthcare is the current battleground because that's exactly how Engels laid it out. Start with organizing labor into cartels, follow it up with centralized healthcare, then move on to regulating self-protection, ultimately ending with control over food.

It's predictable because the same pattern has been used over and over.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Bad poll for Democrats

 

[fried-chicken]

Bad poll for Democrats

Honestly, lol this says more about republicans that they didn't feel they were better off in 2012 vs 2008. They really didn't like the black dude.

 

[UCFWayne]

i cant wait for trumps second term

 

[UCFKnight85]

Honestly, lol this says more about republicans that they didn't feel they were better off in 2012 vs 2008. They really didn't like the black dude.

I can just see Shook Chicken furiously trying to figure a response to this. Checks notes.

"Oh, nothing really to rebut here? Ok, notes say - go to race card. Pull it, throw around racism and excuse everything away"

 

[fried-chicken]

I can just see Shook Chicken furiously trying to figure a response to this. Checks notes.

"Oh, nothing really to rebut here? Ok, notes say - go to race card. Pull it, throw around racism and excuse everything away"

I mean you did see the rest of the poll right? 1 in every 10 would never vote for any black president. You can't get your dick hard for portions of this poll and ignore what you don't like. Fully 10% of republicans are outwardly racist and probably an additional 30% are quiet about their racism.

 

[chemmie]

"SOCIALISM!!!!!! AAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!" - idiots

 

[UCFKnight85]

I mean you did see the rest of the poll right? 1 in every 10 would never vote for any black president. You can't get your dick hard for portions of this poll and ignore what you don't like. Fully 10% of republicans are outwardly racist and probably an additional 30% are quiet about their racism.

Imagine clinging to this poll as your de facto evidence of racism to satisfy your preconceived ignorance?

 

[fried-chicken]

Imagine clinging to this poll as your de facto evidence of racism to satisfy your preconceived ignorance?

Why is this poll good when used to prove your points but bad when it also highlights clear racism in the Republican party?

 

[NinjaKnight]

Not that you inbreds care about facts or logic, but 7 of the top 10 happiest countries in the world are "socialist"


Sounds really terrible.

 

[Boosted87]

To me, "democratic socialism" is just a marketing ploy that authoritarians use. Lenin coined the term once he realized that the term "communist" was unpopular and the same tactic has been used by Chavez and Castro. It comes across as being benign but the end goal is always the same: statist authoritarianism. They want you to think that since they say "democratic" that you'll be in control, playing on the human instinct of wanting power over their own circumstances and creating a victim mentality (someone is keeping you from achieving your dreams). Its no surprise that healthcare is the current battleground because that's exactly how Engels laid it out. Start with organizing labor into cartels, follow it up with centralized healthcare, then move on to regulating self-protection, ultimately ending with control over food.

It's predictable because the same pattern has been used over and over.

Authoritarianism can come from any direction. You are absolutely correct in your diagnosis of Chavez and Castro. We went through a period where the greatest threats to liberal democracy were from the left. Populists used socialism to make promises to the people while they were gobbling up wealth and power for themselves

But what you need to realize is that the threat is Authoritarianism more broadly. Authoritarians crave power. They could care less about what economic system or brand of populism they use to collect that power. They will use whatever tools that most effectively retain that power, which are going to vary culture to culture and based on what's happening at that moment in time. Left or right wing Authoritarians follow the same basic playbook - undermine the free press - systematically attack and weaken institutions and norms that push back - demonize or dehumanize the opposition - etc. Right/left is irrelevant when it comes to that stuff.

Look at Erdogan in Turkey or Orban in Hungary. We're watching right-wing authoritarian rule develop in real time. The tides have shifted. Just as lefties in the US sympathized with Chavez and Castro, we are watching right-wingers here sympathize with Orban and Erdogan.

If you truly believe in the tenets of western liberal democracy, then you oppose threats from both ends. Bernie's brand of "socialism" is FAR less threatening to the principles of democracy than Trump's brand of politics. Trump is literally following the authoritarian playbook. Scholars who have studied authoritarian rule for decades are telling us how serious this is.

If Sanders is elected and spends his days intimidating witnesses on twitter, publicly telling his AG how to handle cases involving his allies, demonizing the free press, leading chants to jail his political enemies, crushing dissent in his own party, demanding loyalty to himself rather than the constitution - then I'll 100% be as worried about Sanders as I am about Trump. You're concerned with hypothetical threats of left-wing authoritarianism while right-wing authoritarianism is festering in broad daylight right under your nose.

 

[Crazyhole]

Authoritarianism can come from any direction. You are absolutely correct in your diagnosis of Chavez and Castro. We went through a period where the greatest threats to liberal democracy were from the left. Populists used socialism to make promises to the people while they were gobbling up wealth and power for themselves

But what you need to realize is that the threat is Authoritarianism more broadly. Authoritarians crave power. They could care less about what economic system or brand of populism they use to collect that power. They will use whatever tools that most effectively retain that power, which are going to vary culture to culture and based on what's happening at that moment in time. Left or right wing Authoritarians follow the same basic playbook - undermine the free press - systematically attack and weaken institutions and norms that push back - demonize or dehumanize the opposition - etc. Right/left is irrelevant when it comes to that stuff.

Look at Erdogan in Turkey or Orban in Hungary. We're watching right-wing authoritarian rule develop in real time. The tides have shifted. Just as lefties in the US sympathized with Chavez and Castro, we are watching right-wingers here sympathize with Orban and Erdogan.

If you truly believe in the tenets of western liberal democracy, then you oppose threats from both ends. Bernie's brand of "socialism" is FAR less threatening to the principles of democracy than Trump's brand of politics. Trump is literally following the authoritarian playbook. Scholars who have studied authoritarian rule for decades are telling us how serious this is.

If Sanders is elected and spends his days intimidating witnesses on twitter, publicly telling his AG how to handle cases involving his allies, demonizing the free press, leading chants to jail his political enemies, crushing dissent in his own party, demanding loyalty to himself rather than the constitution - then I'll 100% be as worried about Sanders as I am about Trump. You're concerned with hypothetical threats of left-wing authoritarianism while right-wing authoritarianism is festering in broad daylight right under your nose.

I'm not going to disagree with you in principle, because yes authoritarianism can come from both sides. It can come from both statism and populism, liberal and conservative, secular or sacred.

I guess what I dont see in these claims about trump is that he hasn't really done anything to consolidate his authority in a way that makes me less free. War game it out and tell me how you think Trump is doing something that will lead to your own personal loss of liberty.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Authoritarianism can come from any direction. You are absolutely correct in your diagnosis of Chavez and Castro. We went through a period where the greatest threats to liberal democracy were from the left. Populists used socialism to make promises to the people while they were gobbling up wealth and power for themselves

But what you need to realize is that the threat is Authoritarianism more broadly. Authoritarians crave power. They could care less about what economic system or brand of populism they use to collect that power. They will use whatever tools that most effectively retain that power, which are going to vary culture to culture and based on what's happening at that moment in time. Left or right wing Authoritarians follow the same basic playbook - undermine the free press - systematically attack and weaken institutions and norms that push back - demonize or dehumanize the opposition - etc. Right/left is irrelevant when it comes to that stuff.

Look at Erdogan in Turkey or Orban in Hungary. We're watching right-wing authoritarian rule develop in real time. The tides have shifted. Just as lefties in the US sympathized with Chavez and Castro, we are watching right-wingers here sympathize with Orban and Erdogan.

If you truly believe in the tenets of western liberal democracy, then you oppose threats from both ends. Bernie's brand of "socialism" is FAR less threatening to the principles of democracy than Trump's brand of politics. Trump is literally following the authoritarian playbook. Scholars who have studied authoritarian rule for decades are telling us how serious this is.

If Sanders is elected and spends his days intimidating witnesses on twitter, publicly telling his AG how to handle cases involving his allies, demonizing the free press, leading chants to jail his political enemies, crushing dissent in his own party, demanding loyalty to himself rather than the constitution - then I'll 100% be as worried about Sanders as I am about Trump. You're concerned with hypothetical threats of left-wing authoritarianism while right-wing authoritarianism is festering in broad daylight right under your nose.

Damn, boosted swinging for the fences today. Well said.

 

[chemmie]

Authoritarianism can come from any direction. You are absolutely correct in your diagnosis of Chavez and Castro. We went through a period where the greatest threats to liberal democracy were from the left. Populists used socialism to make promises to the people while they were gobbling up wealth and power for themselves

But what you need to realize is that the threat is Authoritarianism more broadly. Authoritarians crave power. They could care less about what economic system or brand of populism they use to collect that power. They will use whatever tools that most effectively retain that power, which are going to vary culture to culture and based on what's happening at that moment in time. Left or right wing Authoritarians follow the same basic playbook - undermine the free press - systematically attack and weaken institutions and norms that push back - demonize or dehumanize the opposition - etc. Right/left is irrelevant when it comes to that stuff.

Look at Erdogan in Turkey or Orban in Hungary. We're watching right-wing authoritarian rule develop in real time. The tides have shifted. Just as lefties in the US sympathized with Chavez and Castro, we are watching right-wingers here sympathize with Orban and Erdogan.

If you truly believe in the tenets of western liberal democracy, then you oppose threats from both ends. Bernie's brand of "socialism" is FAR less threatening to the principles of democracy than Trump's brand of politics. Trump is literally following the authoritarian playbook. Scholars who have studied authoritarian rule for decades are telling us how serious this is.

If Sanders is elected and spends his days intimidating witnesses on twitter, publicly telling his AG how to handle cases involving his allies, demonizing the free press, leading chants to jail his political enemies, crushing dissent in his own party, demanding loyalty to himself rather than the constitution - then I'll 100% be as worried about Sanders as I am about Trump. You're concerned with hypothetical threats of left-wing authoritarianism while right-wing authoritarianism is festering in broad daylight right under your nose.

Wow. Somebody actually understands world politics.

 

[UCFWayne]

I'm not going to disagree with you in principle, because yes authoritarianism can come from both sides. It can come from both statism and populism, liberal and conservative, secular or sacred.

I guess what I dont see in these claims about trump is that he hasn't really done anything to consolidate his authority in a way that makes me less free. War game it out and tell me how you think Trump is doing something that will lead to your own personal loss of liberty.

the orange man is really really really mean.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Honestly, lol this says more about republicans that they didn't feel they were better off in 2012 vs 2008. They really didn't like the black dude.

They really wanted to forget about GWB. I predicted this would happen in 2016. Most of the country was optimistic about the economy in 2016 except my conservative friends. Month after month of good unemployment numbers in 2016 were met by "it's because people are dropping out of the workforce". Overnight in November they joined the rest of the country.

I think the dissatisfaction with the current economy is because the increase in housing costs. As a business owner I was happy with Obama and mostly with Trump. Consistency is the most important thing for me, so a "slow Obama recovery" still means that the future looks better than the past. Trump isn't consistent, that bothers me. What worries me now is that the economy is getting too hot like in 2006-2007 and will crash. There is a LOT of PE/VC money out there looking to capitalize on the next crash. I don't want to be a victim of it.

 

[Crazyhole]

Honestly, lol this says more about republicans that they didn't feel they were better off in 2012 vs 2008. They really didn't like the black dude.

43% of the country identifies as republican or republican leaning. I guess 12% of Democrats must have been racist in 2012 if everybody who thought they were worse off was just because Obama is black. How does it feel to be a member of a party that has so much racism?

 

[NinjaKnight]

the orange man is really really really mean.

You could replace Wayne with a bot that randomly posts "orange man bad", "I'm looking forward to Trump's second term" or a painfully idiotic analogy and no one would even know he was gone. Plus as an added benefit the average IQ of this board would nearly double.