Bomb found in Hanover, Germany Soccer Stadium

[UCFKnight85]

You all either make-up data, or you try to deal in absolutes, in both cases you fail. Numerous studies and i'll provide links if you want have shown looser gun laws and cwp's don't make communities any safer. In fact those communities are often less safe. Do stricter gun laws completely eliminate crime? Of course not, but they do make things safer. In addition, many of the mass shootings that occur in the US aren't done by illegal immigrants or with illegally purchased guns. They were done by people who had been law abiding citizens until the event. So feel free to continue creating views of the left you can argue with (85), spreading falsehoods (Sir G), or using a sample size of 1 to make generalizations (Bob).

I've shown you time after time after time after time that gun sales and gun ownership in the US has dramatically increased in exactly the same time period that violent crime and homicide rates have plummeted. Of course, you and your types choose to completely ignore this.

So there is the problem with your assertion. Whether or not gun ownership or CWP "prevents" crime is entirely subjective and debatable given the conditions of the crime itself and the city for which we're talking about.

On the other hand, you'd love to assure everyone that more guns = more deaths. Yet the FBI crime data completely refutes this when you consider that gun ownership trended up at the exact same time that violent crime and homicide trended down. Now, I already know what you and Whatachart will say: "Other societal factorys impacted violent crime! Not guns!"

And you'd be true to an extent. But that's not your overarching argument here. You want us to believe that more guns in society WILL yield to more deaths, more murders, etc. But there's no actual statistic or evidence that shows this. For this theory to be true, we'd see an uptick in crime and homicide that correlates to some degree to increase in gun sales and ownership and CWP.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Take in women and chidren. Men of fighting age should be at home fighting for their country/homes.

 

[sk8knight]

I've shown you time after time after time after time that gun sales and gun ownership in the US has dramatically increased in exactly the same time period that violent crime and homicide rates have plummeted. Of course, you and your types choose to completely ignore this.

So there is the problem with your assertion. Whether or not gun ownership or CWP "prevents" crime is entirely subjective and debatable given the conditions of the crime itself and the city for which we're talking about.

On the other hand, you'd love to assure everyone that more guns = more deaths. Yet the FBI crime data completely refutes this when you consider that gun ownership trended up at the exact same time that violent crime and homicide trended down. Now, I already know what you and Whatachart will say: "Other societal factorys impacted violent crime! Not guns!"

And you'd be true to an extent. But that's not your overarching argument here. You want us to believe that more guns in society WILL yield to more deaths, more murders, etc. But there's no actual statistic or evidence that shows this. For this theory to be true, we'd see an uptick in crime and homicide that correlates to some degree to increase in gun sales and ownership and CWP.

Let's also not forget that the gun death statistics also include suicides and many times justifiable self defense and officer-involved shootings. The suicides aren't relevant to a "safer society" and the justifiable self-defense cases actually contribute to safety.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Let's also not forget that the gun death statistics also include suicides and many times justifiable self defense and officer-involved shootings. The suicides aren't relevant to a "safer society" and the justifiable self-defense cases actually contribute to safety.

This is why I focus on violent crime and homicide. The suicide rate in this country is a huge problem, but the problem is that people are mentally capable of killing themselves, not that a gun as used. It completely skews the gun death numbers that the left gleefully flings around.

Even the homicide rate by gun is heavily influenced by the amount of gang related killings using illegal firearms.

 

[Poolside Knight]

to anyone that has seen Kerry's pressers...

watching him I get the impression that even he is frustrated with Obama

 

[MACHater02]

I'll take you up on your offer, provide backup please.

In more recent years, academics investigating the relationship between concealed carry laws and public safety have found:

• There are "no statistically discernible relationship between concealed carry policies and the public’s perceptions of the number of firearm carriers." Since the supposed deterrent effect of concealed carry laws "assumes that potential assailants are aware of the distribution of firearm carriers in the potential victim population... the data suggest easing concealed carry cannot deter crime" (Fortunato, 2015)
• "Right-to-carry laws are associated with substantially higher rates" of aggravated assault, robbery, rape and murder. (Aneja, Donohue and Zhang, 2014)
• "No support to the hypothesis that shall-issue laws have beneficial effects in reducing murder rates" (Grambsch, 2012)
• At the city level, there is "no evidence that [right-to-carry] laws reduce or increase rates of violent crime" (Kovandzic, Marvell and Vieraitis, 2005)
• "A 'shall issue' law that eliminates most restrictions on carrying a concealed weapon may be associated with increased firearm homicide rates" (Rosengart et. al., 2005)
• "No statistically significant association exists between changes in concealed weapon laws and state homicide rates" (Hepburn, Miller, Azrael and Hemenway, 2004)
• "Changes in gun ownership are significantly positively related to changes in the homicide rate" (Ludwig, 2002)

 

[UCFKnight85]

to anyone that has seen Kerry's pressers...

watching him I get the impression that even he is frustrated with Obama

John Kerry had the idiot moment of the year when we blurbbed out that the Charlie Hebdo attacks.

"There’s something different about what happened from Charlie Hebdo, and I think everybody would feel that. There was a sort of particularized focus and perhaps even a legitimacy in terms of — not a legitimacy, but a rationale that you could attach yourself to somehow and say, okay, they’re really angry because of this and that. "

 

[sk8knight]

In more recent years, academics investigating the relationship between concealed carry laws and public safety have found:

• There are "no statistically discernible relationship between concealed carry policies and the public’s perceptions of the number of firearm carriers." Since the supposed deterrent effect of concealed carry laws "assumes that potential assailants are aware of the distribution of firearm carriers in the potential victim population... the data suggest easing concealed carry cannot deter crime" (Fortunato, 2015)
• "Right-to-carry laws are associated with substantially higher rates" of aggravated assault, robbery, rape and murder. (Aneja, Donohue and Zhang, 2014)
• "No support to the hypothesis that shall-issue laws have beneficial effects in reducing murder rates" (Grambsch, 2012)
• At the city level, there is "no evidence that [right-to-carry] laws reduce or increase rates of violent crime" (Kovandzic, Marvell and Vieraitis, 2005)
• "A 'shall issue' law that eliminates most restrictions on carrying a concealed weapon may be associated with increased firearm homicide rates" (Rosengart et. al., 2005)
• "No statistically significant association exists between changes in concealed weapon laws and state homicide rates" (Hepburn, Miller, Azrael and Hemenway, 2004)
• "Changes in gun ownership are significantly positively related to changes in the homicide rate" (Ludwig, 2002)

Do you know the definition of homicide?

 

[UCFKnight85]

In more recent years, academics investigating the relationship between concealed carry laws and public safety have found:

• There are "no statistically discernible relationship between concealed carry policies and the public’s perceptions of the number of firearm carriers." Since the supposed deterrent effect of concealed carry laws "assumes that potential assailants are aware of the distribution of firearm carriers in the potential victim population... the data suggest easing concealed carry cannot deter crime" (Fortunato, 2015)
• "Right-to-carry laws are associated with substantially higher rates" of aggravated assault, robbery, rape and murder. (Aneja, Donohue and Zhang, 2014)
• "No support to the hypothesis that shall-issue laws have beneficial effects in reducing murder rates" (Grambsch, 2012)
• At the city level, there is "no evidence that [right-to-carry] laws reduce or increase rates of violent crime" (Kovandzic, Marvell and Vieraitis, 2005)
• "A 'shall issue' law that eliminates most restrictions on carrying a concealed weapon may be associated with increased firearm homicide rates" (Rosengart et. al., 2005)
• "No statistically significant association exists between changes in concealed weapon laws and state homicide rates" (Hepburn, Miller, Azrael and Hemenway, 2004)
• "Changes in gun ownership are significantly positively related to changes in the homicide rate" (Ludwig, 2002)

LOL!

The last "research paper" from 2001 is titled "More Guns = More Crime".

Yet I yet again just pointed out that violent crime and homicide rates have plummeted during a period in which gun sales, ownership, and CCW licenses are at all time highs.

It's amazing how hard you're trying to ignore this fact.

 

[sk8knight]

This is why I focus on violent crime and homicide. The suicide rate in this country is a huge problem, but the problem is that people are mentally capable of killing themselves, not that a gun as used. It completely skews the gun death numbers that the left gleefully flings around.

Even the homicide rate by gun is heavily influenced by the amount of gang related killings using illegal firearms.

You're making the most important point. They aren't dealing with the root cause of violent crimes or suicides, they're simply trying to limit one way of implementing those acts.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

In more recent years, academics investigating the relationship between concealed carry laws and public safety have found:

• There are "no statistically discernible relationship between concealed carry policies and the public’s perceptions of the number of firearm carriers." Since the supposed deterrent effect of concealed carry laws "assumes that potential assailants are aware of the distribution of firearm carriers in the potential victim population... the data suggest easing concealed carry cannot deter crime" (Fortunato, 2015)
• "Right-to-carry laws are associated with substantially higher rates" of aggravated assault, robbery, rape and murder. (Aneja, Donohue and Zhang, 2014)
• "No support to the hypothesis that shall-issue laws have beneficial effects in reducing murder rates" (Grambsch, 2012)
• At the city level, there is "no evidence that [right-to-carry] laws reduce or increase rates of violent crime" (Kovandzic, Marvell and Vieraitis, 2005)
• "A 'shall issue' law that eliminates most restrictions on carrying a concealed weapon may be associated with increased firearm homicide rates" (Rosengart et. al., 2005)
• "No statistically significant association exists between changes in concealed weapon laws and state homicide rates" (Hepburn, Miller, Azrael and Hemenway, 2004)
• "Changes in gun ownership are significantly positively related to changes in the homicide rate" (Ludwig, 2002)

Please adjust your argument. You've been arguing against gun ownership and your "proof" only references conceal/carry. The 2nd amendment does not give the right to conceal/carry.

 

[UCFWayne]

Shame on you guys. Its not right to pick on a retarded kid.

 

[MACHater02]

Please adjust your argument. You've been arguing against gun ownership and your "proof" only references conceal/carry. The 2nd amendment does not give the right to conceal/carry.

When did I argue against gun ownership?

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Just in this thread. I'm too lazy to go digging it all up.

All of the 2nd amendment bad asses are now scared of refugees.

Sorry the 2nd amendment would make it easier for them to kill, not harder.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Shame on you guys. Its not right to pick on a retarded kid.

But it is fun.

 

[Good Knight Sweetheart]

So, we're gonna turn away thousands of migrants seeking help, because of a few, but we're still gonna admit people on student visas, right? Because that never resulted in terrorist acts.

.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

No one is talking about not letting them in, they need to be properly vetted. There are millions and millions in the same condition that want into the US. Why are the Syrians so special?

 

[UCFKnight85]

So, we're gonna turn away thousands of migrants seeking help, because of a few, but we're still gonna admit people on student visas, right? Because that never resulted in terrorist acts.

.

Serious question?

Here's the answer: 99% of student visa requests are not originating from a region which contain the bloodiest Islamic sectarian war in the last 200+ years.

Unless ISIS is now going to disguise Jihadists as biology research students from Slovenia.

 

[UCFWayne]

They really need to start teaching critical thinking skills in schools again.

 

[chemmie]

Serious question?

Here's the answer: 99% of student visa requests are not originating from a region which contain the bloodiest Islamic sectarian war in the last 200+ years.

Unless ISIS is now going to disguise Jihadists as biology research students from Slovenia.

Do you realize you keep dismissing the easiest means for possible terrorists to enter the country, while running scared about the most difficult means for possible terrorists to enter the country?

 

[UCFKnight85]

Do you realize you keep dismissing the easiest means for possible terrorists to enter the country, while running scared about the most difficult means for possible terrorists to enter the country?

lol

I've now owned you in 2 different forums on this topic. Are you really this dumb or willfully choosing to ignore my valid points?

There is a very small, remote possibility that guys who are flagged by EU and CIA intelligence could EVER step foot on a plane bound for the US, even with an EU passport. For the 6th time: there is a massive no-fly list and it's used on a daily basis to reject people from entering.

Your idiotic line about "30 seconds in Miami!" is dumb beyond words. It's a striking damnation of your intellect if you REALLY believe that's the only method the US uses to identify who is potentially coming through our borders with EU passports.

I have to believe that even you can comprehend this, but you're just lying to make a point and cry some more about meanie right wingers.

 

[chemmie]

lol

I've now owned you in 2 different forums on this topic. Are you really this dumb or willfully choosing to ignore my valid points?

There is a very small, remote possibility that guys who are flagged by EU and CIA intelligence could EVER step foot on a plane bound for the US, even with an EU passport. For the 6th time: there is a massive no-fly list and it's used on a daily basis to reject people from entering.

Your idiotic line about "30 seconds in Miami!" is dumb beyond words. It's a striking damnation of your intellect if you REALLY believe that's the only method the US uses to identify who is potentially coming through our borders with EU passports.

I have to believe that even you can comprehend this, but you're just lying to make a point and cry some more about meanie right wingers.

My bad. Checking a no-fly list is a much better way of catching potential wrong-doers entering our country than a year-long background investigation for refugees.

 

[UCFWayne]

Who said anything about a year long background investigation? Im pretty sure the president has talked about fast tracking them.

 

[Good Knight Sweetheart]

Serious question?

Here's the answer: 99% of student visa requests are not originating from a region which contain the bloodiest Islamic sectarian war in the last 200+ years.

Unless ISIS is now going to disguise Jihadists as biology research students from Slovenia.

My mistake ...14 of the 9/11 hijackers were here on tourist visas.
We should stop issuing those.

.

 

[MACHater02]

Just in this thread. I'm too lazy to go digging it all up.

That's not arguing against ownership. That's arguing against the theory that more guns or looser gun laws leads to a safer environment like 85 likes to proclaim. As we all know correlation doesn't equal causation.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Obama Threatens to Veto House Syrian Refugee Bill

WASHINGTON—House Republicans and President Barack Obama hit a new impasse over national security, clashing over a GOP effort to halt the entry of Syrian and Iraqi refugees into the U.S. in the wake of last week’s Islamic State attacks on Paris.

The House is expected to easily pass legislation Thursday that would freeze and overhaul the process used to vet the refugees. The measure’s prospects in the Senate are unclear, but the White House threatened Wednesday to veto any bill, saying it would add unnecessary hurdles to an already-rigorous screening process.

www.wsj.com/articles/obama-threatens-to-veto-house-syrian-refugee-bill-1447892789

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

 

[UCFWayne]

Yea, lets not make sure we are 100% when vetting these people. Thats a terrible idea.*

 

[UCF11and1]

We just need the airlines to give every person some bacon during the flight: if you don't eat it, you can't get into the US.

 

[UCFKnight85]

That's not arguing against ownership. That's arguing against the theory that more guns or looser gun laws leads to a safer environment like 85 likes to proclaim. As we all know correlation doesn't equal causation.

What I "proclaim" is the irrefutable fact that violent crime and homicide has plummeted during an era of record gun sales, gun ownership, and CCW license issuance.

This is even during the time that the scary AR15's were allowed back into gun stores!

 

[MACHater02]

What I "proclaim" is the irrefutable fact that violent crime and homicide has plummeted during an era of record gun sales, gun ownership, and CCW license issuance.

This is even during the time that the scary AR15's were allowed back into gun stores!

The value of my car has gone down during all of that as well. I guess increased gun sales led to the value of my car decreasing.

 

[UCFKnight85]

The value of my car has gone down during all of that as well. I guess increased gun sales led to the value of my car decreasing.

Wow- you've hit absolute rock bottom. Just give it up and save further embarrassment.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

He's just pulling from the Bernie Sanders bag of tricks. Terrorism is caused by global warming.

 

[MACHater02]

Wow- you've hit absolute rock bottom. Just give it up and save further embarrassment.

Show causation, not just a correlation.