Children...not in cages, but in chain link fence

[fried-chicken]

Start at 2:50 and listen for 10 minutes. He cites the law from the 90s and the 9th circuit court ruling from 2008.

I'm not listening to manlet Ben Shapiro for 10 min. Cite me the law

 

[Crazyhole]

The law was IIRIRA. I'll look up the 9th curcuit ruling.

 

[UCFWayne]

The law was IIRIRA. I'll look up the 9th curcuit ruling.

lol at you crazyhole for thinking that citing the law would actually cause him to realize hes wrong. hes the textbook case of trump derangement syndrome

 

[Crazyhole]

The Flores Consent Decree is at play here, which was poorly written. The 9th circuit ruled on it (havent found the ruling, there are dozens to sift through) and their ruling did the opposite of what they intended.

 

[fried-chicken]

The Flores Consent Decree is at play here, which was poorly written. The 9th circuit ruled on it (havent found the ruling, there are dozens to sift through) and their ruling did the opposite of what they intended.

Cite

 

[Crazyhole]

lol at you crazyhole for thinking that citing the law would actually cause him to realize hes wrong. hes the textbook case of trump derangement syndrome

Im not saying he's wrong, but this isnt as simple as just saying that trump made this all up.

 

[fried-chicken]

It's trumps policy to do this. It wasn't done before.

 

[UCFWayne]

Im not saying he's wrong, but this isnt as simple as just saying that trump made this all up.

ben summarized it very well. basically trump is treating every single case as a case for deportation. thus its a crime. thus the kids are separated. in the past, obama/bush/clinton didnt do this for every single case but did on a good bit of them. these rules have been in place for a long time and the interpretation by the 9th circuit since 2009. this is nothing new other than trump is really cracking down.

mr chicken is just trolling at this point.

 

[Crazyhole]

ben summarized it very well. basically trump is treating every single case as a case for deportation. thus its a crime. thus the kids are separated. in the past, obama/bush/clinton didnt do this for every single case but did on a good bit of them. these rules have been in place for a long time and the interpretation by the 9th circuit since 2009. this is nothing new other than trump is really cracking down.

mr chicken is just trolling at this point.

Pretty much. Flores basically says that kids can't go to jail with the parents for a couple of reasons. The difference between then and now is that we are prosecuting everyone coming across and there aren't facilities that are consistent with Flores to keep the families together. The Obama INS just let people go on their own recognizance so it wasnt an issue.

INS has a few options for who to release the kids to but they have to ensure that the place they go is safe, which is time consuming so its easier to just detain them while the parents are being processed.

It isnt pretty and this is why the Cruz bill needs to pass.

 

[CommuterBob]

Pretty much. Flores basically says that kids can't go to jail with the parents for a couple of reasons. The difference between then and now is that we are prosecuting everyone coming across and there aren't facilities that are consistent with Flores to keep the families together. The Obama INS just let people go on their own recognizance so it wasnt an issue.

INS has a few options for who to release the kids to but they have to ensure that the place they go is safe, which is time consuming so its easier to just detain them while the parents are being processed.

It isnt pretty and this is why the Cruz bill needs to pass.

This. It's not really a law, but rather the "zero-tolerance" enforcement of the law that has changed. Prior to April, those found crossing the border illegally (i.e. not at a designated point of entry) were simply rounded up and returned to their country of origin without prosecution if they didn't have a criminal record - those with a criminal record were prosecuted. Now, they're ALL being prosecuted (even though it's only a misdemeanor) and given a criminal record - and then when they cross illegally again it's a felony. The prosecution requires the children be taken away and put into the care of Health and Human Services - but only permanent separation if the child cannot be proven to be the child of the alleged "parents" who they accompanied across the border. The vast majority of the children coming across lately fall into that category. Is that a Border Patrol determination being done fraudulently to support an agenda, or is it fact, is up for debate, but let's for the sake of argument say it's fact more often than not. There are a large number of children that are being brought across the border at non-points of entry that are with adults that are not their actual parents. Could they be uncles, or cousins, or other relatives? Maybe. Could they be drug mules or human trafficking victims? Maybe. Could the Border Patrol be unable or unwilling to investigate more before making a determination? Maybe.

The adults that are with these "unaccompanied" kids are then prosecuted as traffickers as well as illegal border crossers, which changes their charges from a misdemeanor to a felony. Then the separation becomes permanent because there's no mechanism to send the kids back to their felon "parents" if that is truly who they are. HHS is stuck trying to find a relative in the US or a foster home for the kids.

And yes, this zero-tolerance policy is totally meant to be a deterrent. Somewhat because of the number of "unaccompanied" kids coming across with fake parents, but also somewhat because the administration wants to hammer down on illegal border crossings, period.



So yes, the law needs to be changed. And yes, it's totally the administration's decision to do this. And while it seems despicable to separate children from their parents, this isn't outside the bounds of the law, nor outside the bounds of normal practice. It's something that has been done for decades.

 

[Crazyhole]

This. It's not really a law, but rather the "zero-tolerance" enforcement of the law that has changed. Prior to April, those found crossing the border illegally (i.e. not at a designated point of entry) were simply rounded up and returned to their country of origin without prosecution if they didn't have a criminal record - those with a criminal record were prosecuted. Now, they're ALL being prosecuted (even though it's only a misdemeanor) and given a criminal record - and then when they cross illegally again it's a felony. The prosecution requires the children be taken away and put into the care of Health and Human Services - but only permanent separation if the child cannot be proven to be the child of the alleged "parents" who they accompanied across the border. The vast majority of the children coming across lately fall into that category. Is that a Border Patrol determination being done fraudulently to support an agenda, or is it fact, is up for debate, but let's for the sake of argument say it's fact more often than not. There are a large number of children that are being brought across the border at non-points of entry that are with adults that are not their actual parents. Could they be uncles, or cousins, or other relatives? Maybe. Could they be drug mules or human trafficking victims? Maybe. Could the Border Patrol be unable or unwilling to investigate more before making a determination? Maybe.

The adults that are with these "unaccompanied" kids are then prosecuted as traffickers as well as illegal border crossers, which changes their charges from a misdemeanor to a felony. Then the separation becomes permanent because there's no mechanism to send the kids back to their felon "parents" if that is truly who they are. HHS is stuck trying to find a relative in the US or a foster home for the kids.

And yes, this zero-tolerance policy is totally meant to be a deterrent. Somewhat because of the number of "unaccompanied" kids coming across with fake parents, but also somewhat because the administration wants to hammer down on illegal border crossings, period.

View embedded media

So yes, the law needs to be changed. And yes, it's totally the administration's decision to do this. And while it seems despicable to separate children from their parents, this isn't outside the bounds of the law, nor outside the bounds of normal practice. It's something that has been done for decades.

Just imagine the uproar if we released a few kids into the custody of their adult travel partners and then find out they were human traffickers.