Cuba ....what to do....
- Thread starter Nautiknight
- Start date
No. Not nation building, but helping to add a valuable partner to our country.
Doing that crap on the other side of the planet is stupid and short sighted. We have no cultural similarities to places like Iraq or Afghanistan so it doesn't work. We are talking about a chunk of land less than 100 miles away with people that seem to share our values here. It's not hard to see how this is a natural fit.
You are acting like we havent sang this song before, and most of the time it doesnt go anywhere near as planned.
If you are going to overthrow a government in a sovereign nation, then it is most certainly nation building.
Batista was a Dictator before Castro , he allowed corrupt capitalism . Castro successfully framed him as an American puppet to gain support . He also targeted the American mafia who Batista did backroom deals with
Pre-Castro Cuba was a successful place, by and large. "Cuba's capital, Havana, was a glittering and dynamic city. In the early part of the century the country's economy, fueled by the sale of sugar to the United States, had grown dramatically. Cuba ranked fifth in the hemisphere in per capita income, third in life expectancy, second in per capita ownership of automobiles and telephones, first in the number of television sets per inhabitant. The literacy rate, 76%, was the fourth highest in Latin America. Cuba ranked 11th in the world in the number of doctors per capita. Many private clinics and hospitals provided services for the poor. Cuba's income distribution compared favorably with that of other Latin American societies. A thriving middle class held the promise of prosperity and social mobility."
Of course, there was wealth inequality between the cities and the rural areas and racial tensions there as there were everywhere. The revolutionaries exploited these in their call for social justice. Tell me if this quote from Castro isn't familiar today: "Not Communism or Marxism is our idea. Our political philosophy is representative democracy and social justice in a well-planned economy."
Pre-Castro Cuba | American Experience | PBS
Before the revolution, Cuba was one of the most advanced and successful countries in Latin America.www.pbs.org
Sugar isn't worth nearly what it used to be for the Cuban economy. Their economy was already collapsing before Castro, once Americans and other colonials realized the island had little to offer anymore with cheap sugar flooding the Earth.
There is a reason why most of the islands, Mexico, Central and South America are so poor: because colonials already raped them of much of their resources. Add in terrible governments and civil wars, and you get Trump's "shit hole countries." The story is the same throughout Africa and Asia, too.
Who said anything about us overthrowing a government? The people there can do that. I just think we would be foolish to not support them.
Chávez was legitimately elected by the people the first time. Castro never was and staged a revolution by force
I am not against support on certain levels, but at the same time, just saying we should support them doesnt mean anything. Support them how? If we are talking about militarily, then we are getting into nation building territory.
Asymmetric warfare. Propaganda. Threats of invasion. Promises of financial and humanitarian support that we keep. Messaging is also a key to success.
And do you think Russia and China are just going to sit back while this happens?
Chavez was involved with turning the people too. He was a revolutionary fighter, just like Castro. It's not exactly the same, but similarly enough.
Of course they would. Russia is Cuba's top creditor, and China is also a major trade partner. They arent just going to sit back and do nothing. And this is my general point. It is easy to toss out slogans about spreading freedom and Democracy, but it also isnt an easy thing to do in reality. This would be a much more complicated situation than I think some of you are giving it credit for.
Possibly not. But if we get involved in the overthrow of the Cuban government militarily…kiss the country of Taiwan goodbye.
Logic here in the WC has never been particularly high, Cubs79.
Russia annexes Crimea and threatens the Ukraine and the US and its NATO allies go ballistic. China threatens Taiwan and pushes back against Hong Kong protesters and we go ballistic.
But tensions between the US, China, and Russia wouldn't be the least bit exacerbated by the US military invading Cuba, right guys? 🤪
Listen, I'd love to see a revolution in Cuba, but we need to stay the hell out of their affairs.
What did we do when China took Hong Kong or when Russia took Crimea?Logic here in the WC has never been particularly high, Cubs79.
Russia annexes Crimea and threatens the Ukraine and the US and its NATO allies go ballistic. China threatens Taiwan and pushes back against Hong Kong protesters and we go ballistic.
But tensions between the US, China, and Russia wouldn't be the least bit exacerbated by the US military invading Cuba, right guys? 🤪
Listen, I'd love to see a revolution in Cuba, but we need to stay the hell out of their affairs.
Boo-yah!
Me? I say we pull out of NATO and other alliances, out of the Middle East, and let Germany sh-- bricks trying to balance Iran and Russia for their energy while spending less than 1% of their GDP on defense. Even the French -- the French who are not even full NATO members -- were agreeing with Trump on that!
It's time to let the rest of the world realize how bad it would be without us. Non-interference. 70-80% of Americans want it. Let's just finally do it.
Sounds great until you understand that the Cuban government has on purpose rejected ALL HUMANITARIAN aid for decades. Other than that, great ideas. Love it, great work @chemmie
Opinion | Behind Cuba’s Covid Uprising
Most poor countries put all hands on deck in this crisis. Havana exports its doctors.
www.wsj.com
This is true.Sounds great until you understand that the Cuban government has on purpose rejected ALL HUMANITARIAN aid for decades. Other than that, great ideas. Love it, great work @chemmie
Opinion | Behind Cuba’s Covid Uprising
Most poor countries put all hands on deck in this crisis. Havana exports its doctors.
I think the real point is we've tried so many methods, but maybe we just need to treat them all, even the lousy dictatorship, like human beings and it might just all come around.
How do you recommend us, the USA, supporting them, when their government is specifically anti America and unwilling of our support? The Cuban Embargo does not effect humanitarian aid, just prohibits american companies from doing business with Cuba.
The easy answer to all of this is, nothing will happen. Next week there will be some other issue American news media will argue about, and we'll move along with our lives and forget about Cuba until the next time something bubbles up over there.
What we should do, is openly condemn communism, which of course we have not done. It's quite the easy stance as communism, shockingly has never worked in any country and then call on the support of our allies to also condemn communism and that dictatorship. If that pisses off China and Russia so be it, I didn't know we were in the business of popularity contests all of a sudden. Find ways to get access to information on the island, access to internet, telecommunications, etc. Let the people there come to the realization that they are being treated like shit and hope there is an uprising. The problem is, thanks to socialists/communists running that government they have taken all the people's guns (interesting note that isn't discussed much) and so the people are left to fight the government and police while the government has guns and the citizens have rocks.
We've been condemning the Communists for 80-plus years, and most Communist dictatorships have fallen off the map or changed their ways enough economically.
The end of the Communist dictatorship in Cuba is inevitable. There have been some changes already over the last 20 years. The people are hopeful.
I believe that the American government continuing to fight the Cuban government will prolong the inevitable. We've been trying that method long enough with Cuba's deliberate defiance. Just be nice to them for a change, and focus on the citizens, and the government will fall naturally and likely without much fanfare.
You must be the most naive person on the planet.
Again, give me an example of America going in there and helping, where a) Diaz-Canel will allow it B) Cuban government will not profit from it C) the Cuban people's lives actually get better
This is an appropriate response. Props to Biden.
And Progressives. In fact, Progressives are in cohorts with the Neocons on this front, especially since 2014.
It's us Neo Liberals that are utterly against such. But we're few these days.
