Does any of it really matter?

[lawknight]

I have to disagree. Living in South Florida I constantly see news articles about how UCF is the #1 destination for kids from South Florida. I would have to think that players care and want to go to school with their friends, close to home where their parents can come see them play. For a small portion of players (ie: the few 5 stars) P5 may matter. A perfect example of how coaching matters is Daunte. Daunte was originally going to go to FSU, he had academic issues and Mcdowell stuck with him. The loyalty inspired Daunte to go to UCF. (I don't think Mcdowell would have passed on a big local talent to give a scholarship to a friends kid [which happened multiple times under GOL]) . Another example from a bygone era is Scnellenberger who basically drew a line in the sand and said we are not going to let local kids go out of state. We need that mentality in our next coach.

Moreover, recently is the fact that Asante Samuel Jr. has hardly been recruited by our staff and is 100% committed to the U. How does that happen ? Do you think if Ed Reed jr. or Warren Sapp jr. was a high recruit they would be going anywhere but the U? Or at least the U would have been in their top 5 destinations.

 

[SCKnight]

UCF under GOL wanted to run a Stanford type Program but without the Global name recognition & QBs with Ivy IQs. And with that attempt we still got hit with Miami Hurricane Light Sanctions, Fail.

You have to admit that the sanctions were Keith Tribble's doing. GOL's boss. I seriously doubt that GOL would have been complicit given his attitude.

 

[firm_bizzle]

You have to admit that the sanctions were Keith Tribble's doing. GOL's boss. I seriously doubt that GOL would have been complicit given his attitude.

Uh huh. GOL's boss and his subordinate (Kelly) messed up but GOL had nothing to do with it.

 

[SCKnight]

I have to disagree. Living in South Florida I constantly see news articles about how UCF is the #1 destination for kids from South Florida. I would have to think that players care and want to go to school with their friends, close to home where their parents can come see them play. For a small portion of players (ie: the few 5 stars) P5 may matter. A perfect example of how coaching matters is Daunte. Daunte was originally going to go to FSU, he had academic issues and Mcdowell stuck with him. The loyalty inspired Daunte to go to UCF. (I don't think Mcdowell would have passed on a big local talent to give a scholarship to a friends kid [which happened multiple times under GOL]) . Another example from a bygone era is Scnellenberger who basically drew a line in the sand and said we are not going to let local kids go out of state. We need that mentality in our next coach.

Moreover, recently is the fact that Asante Samuel Jr. has hardly been recruited by our staff and is 100% committed to the U. How does that happen ? Do you think if Ed Reed jr. or Warren Sapp jr. was a high recruit they would be going anywhere but the U? Or at least the U would have been in their top 5 destinations.

What football players want vs. what students want are two completely different things. As an athlete you want to compete at the highest level you are able and where you have the most chance to play. It is nice if your friends and family get to see but not a priority. P5 matters to the vast majority of the athletes, many who still think they have a shot at the pros.

I doubt you ever see another Daunte situation in college football. That was a different era and Daunte was a rare exception

All of this is really oversimplifying a very complex situation. All other things being equal, location matters. However, not all other things are currently equal.

 

[SCKnight]

Uh huh. GOL's boss and his subordinate (Kelly) messed up but GOL had nothing to do with it.

Stop it already. Don't go down this road. If you know anything about the situation from the NCAA reports and the internal investigations then you know this to be correct. Don't start with the conjecture again.

 

[Poolside Knight]

I have to disagree. Living in South Florida I constantly see news articles about how UCF is the #1 destination for kids from South Florida. I would have to think that players care and want to go to school with their friends, close to home where their parents can come see them play. For a small portion of players (ie: the few 5 stars) P5 may matter. A perfect example of how coaching matters is Daunte. Daunte was originally going to go to FSU, he had academic issues and Mcdowell stuck with him. The loyalty inspired Daunte to go to UCF. (I don't think Mcdowell would have passed on a big local talent to give a scholarship to a friends kid [which happened multiple times under GOL]) . Another example from a bygone era is Scnellenberger who basically drew a line in the sand and said we are not going to let local kids go out of state. We need that mentality in our next coach.

Moreover, recently is the fact that Asante Samuel Jr. has hardly been recruited by our staff and is 100% committed to the U. How does that happen ? Do you think if Ed Reed jr. or Warren Sapp jr. was a high recruit they would be going anywhere but the U? Or at least the U would have been in their top 5 destinations.

Yeah pulling on the close to home heartstrings to get a couple of those players. There was a dual threat QB from Palm Beach County that considered UCF for that reason before sticking w Ohio State.

That's what I was referring to in the post about UCF's nice location & campus/facilities. If we don't have a HC that knows how to connect with the recruits it won't matter. UCF is very much a Destination School in the State of Florida for the regular college student where picking to attend UCF over FSU & UF has become normal & with that is the generational gap of expectations with older fans. The conference affiliation is that road block but I'm willing to bet there are certain HCs/recruiting coordinators that would have pulled in 3-4 players with a Tristan Payton type offer lists coming off a Top 10 Finish and BCS Bowl game with what UCF had to work with at the moment.

 

[UCFhonors]

While I don't agree with everything said in this thread, it has great dialog.

UCF has done more than virtually everybody in a shorter amount of time. These are some of the reasons for it

1. Location
2. Facilities
3. Large student body (very desirable)
4. Potential (commitment & accomplishment)
5. Lower expectations

The common perception on the JV and MB boards is that the rules have been stacked against any up-and-comers which make it difficult for another Miami, UF or FSU to rise to prominence. Yes it is about conference affiliation now but that will change. I believe that will all change when the playoff expand. The BS postseason now is so atrocious that it has to change. It's like a 10 year storm that we have to ride out and just stay afloat.

 

[UCFhonors]

The worst thing UCF fans can do is compare ourselves to the most successful programs who have a 100 year headstart. The vast majority of FBS schools have a big head start on UCF, have accomplished less than us, and have less hope/potential than UCF.

Most cfb and sports fans have a false perception due to only hearing, seeing and talking about dominant programs and teams. If measured objectively, most teams in all leagues are losers. UCF has become a winner. One horrible season won't take that from us. And the future is even brighter.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Stop it already. Don't go down this road. If you know anything about the situation from the NCAA reports and the internal investigations then you know this to be correct. Don't start with the conjecture again.

Well bringing up Tribble is to blame is going to provoke a response like that so why even try.

 

[Poolside Knight]

back to the Georgia Job talk ITT they will probably give Richt at least 1 more season based on fear of losing the #1 rated Pro Style QB Recruit that is currently committed to them if they go through a coaching change. If they fired him and went to a Spread guy like Herman they may lose him

http://sports.yahoo.com/uga/football/recruiting/player-Jacob-Eason-156539

 

[lawknight]

While it's not really related we were sanctioned not once but twice being a "repeat offender" led to greater sanctions. Must take the bad with the good.

On a serious note I've long thought that the easiest way to p5 has nothing to do with facilities, tv, wins, etc. Just do what Utah did have a senator or person in position of power threaten a lawsuit against the NCAA as a monopoly. (Much like Oklahoma State once did to get TV revenue/time)

 

[ucfversusbcs]

While it's not really related we were sanctioned not once but twice being a "repeat offender" led to greater sanctions. Must take the bad with the good.

On a serious note I've long thought that the easiest way to p5 has nothing to do with facilities, tv, wins, etc. Just do what Utah did have a senator or person in position of power threaten a lawsuit against the NCAA as a monopoly. (Much like Oklahoma State once did to get TV revenue/time)

Who was the senator or person in position of power that helped TCU?

 

[firm_bizzle]

Stop it already. Don't go down this road. If you know anything about the situation from the NCAA reports and the internal investigations then you know this to be correct. Don't start with the conjecture again.

You brought up Tribble, so we are on that road. You know where it goes.

 

[UCFhonors]

While it's not really related we were sanctioned not once but twice being a "repeat offender" led to greater sanctions. Must take the bad with the good.

On a serious note I've long thought that the easiest way to p5 has nothing to do with facilities, tv, wins, etc. Just do what Utah did have a senator or person in position of power threaten a lawsuit against the NCAA as a monopoly. (Much like Oklahoma State once did to get TV revenue/time)

Yep. You nailed it. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) vowed to see a antitrust lawsuit against the BCS through. The magically Utah gets invited into the PAC 12 and the whole postseason changes to a BS 4 team playoff. If you haven't read the details you're not a real fan.



"In 2012, ESPN reportedly paid about $7.3 billion over 12 years for broadcasting rights to all seven games, an average of about $608 million per year. That includes $215 million per year which was already committed to the Rose, Sugar and Orange bowls,[11] plus $470–475 million annually for the rest of the package.[71] By comparison, the most recent contract with the BCS had paid almost $2 billion over four years — $495 million per year for five games.[11]

The average revenue to the new system over 12 years is to be about $500 million per year. After $125–150 million in expenses, the Power Five conferences split about 75 percent of the remaining money, for an approximate average payout of $250 million a year ($50 million per league) over the life of the contract. The "Group of Five" conferences gets around 25 percent, about $90 million a year ($18 million per league). Notre Dame receives around one percent, about $3.5-4 million, and other FBS independents get about 0.5 percent of the deal.[72][73]"

 

[Poolside Knight]

http://gridironnow.com/ranking-the-open-jobs-on-the-coaching-carousel/


6. UCF: UCF has the second-largest enrollment in the nation, has a nice (and relatively new) on-campus stadium and enjoys good facilities. It also has an excellent recruiting base, even if George O’Leary’s staff didn’t take full advantage. The school has “Big Six” aspirations and could get there; at the least, UCF should contend every season for the AAC title — which means annually contending for the automatic “Group of Six” berth into one of the New Year’s Six bowls. Annual contention for that berth makes it a more attractive job than some of those in the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and even SEC.

 

[hendu1976fl]

that is one thing that I've always factored in as a big plus(for UCF) but I'm not sure that matters as much to recruits as I thought just basing it off of Programs competing in the same conference. USC-UCLA is an example of that, UCLA's campus and immediate area is much nicer than USC's but traditionally has always been out-recruited by the Trojans. That might be changing a little bit recently with Mora as the HC at UCLA. Tuscaloosa is a dump compared to Athens and we all know the monster that Saban has built that embarrassed Georgia this year.

For the regular student coming out of HS UCF is much more desirable campus than USF but Willie T has recruited more Football talent the last few classes with no bowl games, off campus games in front of 15k fans and a sterile campus. If the coaching staff can't connect with the recruits + develop them, then all the bells and whistles that make UCF a great place to be for all of us don't matter.

As much as I hate to say it, Tampa is a more fertile recruiting ground than Orlando. Not a whole lot more talented, but it seems to produce more top level talent. As much as a Hugger as I was, GOL burnt so many bridges with HS coaches in this state. IMO the first priority of whoever the new coach will be is to rebuild those relationships. Playing at home in front of the friends and family is always a big selling point. Knowing that mom is only a couple of hours away via a car ride and not a flight is reassuring to a lot of kids. So in that regard, I do think location is a big selling point. I no longer coach, but I still have friends who do that will tell you that GOL certainly didn't ingratiate himself with most of the HS coaches in the state of Florida. Maybe he hit off with some, but many were left with a bad taste in their mouth.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

As much as I hate to say it, Tampa is a more fertile recruiting ground than Orlando. Not a whole lot more talented, but it seems to produce more top level talent. As much as a Hugger as I was, GOL burnt so many bridges with HS coaches in this state. IMO the first priority of whoever the new coach will be is to rebuild those relationships. Playing at home in front of the friends and family is always a big selling point. Knowing that mom is only a couple of hours away via a car ride and not a flight is reassuring to a lot of kids. So in that regard, I do think location is a big selling point. I no longer coach, but I still have friends who do that will tell you that GOL certainly didn't ingratiate himself with most of the HS coaches in the state of Florida. Maybe he hit off with some, but many were left with a bad taste in their mouth.

I'd read stuff about this, but i wish someone can devote a thread to the stories and examples of GOL burning bridges with Florida HS coaches since the days he signed with UCF. I mean he's gone now.

 

[UCFhonors]

I'd read stuff about this, but i wish someone can devote a thread to the stories and examples of GOL burning bridges with Florida HS coaches since the days he signed with UCF. I mean he's gone now.

I've always wanted to hear from people in the know, FL HS coaches if this rumor is true too.

I talked to George about it several times. It got out brought up at every other lunch. George's response was always the same:

1. Many FL kids want to leave home but we still go after them
2. We go after all the top FL kids just like everyone else
3. Everyone recruits S. FL
4. The rest of the spotty with it's talent
5. Local coaches expect us to take kids who are on radar but aren't on the top of our list.

One thing I believe happens but George never explicitly said is HS coaches have egos. They rather have a player go to a crappy SEC Kentucky than go to local school that may be a better fit for them.

Here is another thing, with direct connect most local students can get into UCF and it's the most economically viable choice. Recruits have real options outside the state that their friends don't. So there may be a cool factor in that.

 

[Knight_Light]

One thing I believe happens but George never explicitly said is HS coaches have egos. They rather have a player go to a crappy SEC Kentucky than go to local school that may be a better fit for them.

.

The "Too Tight Short Wearers" (HS Coaches) have had that same ego for decades....going back to UCF Days in Div I-AA (HS Coaches wanted us to take their Div II level Athletes) to coach McDowell than Coach K's Div I-A tenure when HS Coaches wanted them to take their Div I-AA athletes....and today...when almost every HS Coach "pushes" their even average to very good player to go to ANY P5 program...while only pushing lesser athletes to UCF.

Odds are that will never ever change...regardless who is coaching at UCF.

PS. One of the most hilarious conversation one can ever hear is being at a table of HS Coaches in an alcohol serving establishments where 80% of the conversation is about where their former players went (i.e. P5 schools) vs discussion about actual HS Football Games they coached.

 

[UCFhonors]

The "Too Tight Short Wearers" (HS Coaches) have had that same ego for decades....going back to UCF Days in Div I-AA (HS Coaches wanted us to take their Div II level Athletes) to coach McDowell than Coach K's Div I-A tenure when HS Coaches wanted them to take their Div I-AA athletes....and today...when almost every HS Coach "pushes" their even average to very good player to go to ANY P5 program...while only pushing lesser athletes to UCF.

Odds are that will never ever change...regardless who is coaching at UCF.

PS. One of the most hilarious conversation one can ever hear is being at a table of HS Coaches in an alcohol serving establishments where 80% of the conversation is about where their former players went (i.e. P5 schools) vs discussion about actual HS Football Games they coached.

That's good enough for me and should be good enough for most people on this board to realize why it's so hard to build recruiting relationships with local HS coaches.

I think a lot of people forget or ignore that recruiting involved 17-18 year old kids who are very impressionable and are easily influenced. Conference affiliation, name recognition, and perception are huge obstacles UCF faces in recruiting. Our campus can overcome those but we have get the kids there.

This stuff gets talked about every year. To me it's like beating a dead horse. But somehow it's still a mystery to most.... Or people just want to ignore the realities of recruiting and want to believe in some magic bullet like a magical recruiting coach. Hello Kirk Callahan was suppose to be our recruiting super star. I didn't see anything special from him. It not that easy for a reason.

 

[SCKnight]

I wish I knew enough about HS recruiting to have an opinion. From what I have heard over the years HS coaches have always gotten butt hurt at UCF coaches who don't offer their tier 2 level players. I think it has a lot to do with talent evaluation and standards. When a college coach does not agree with a HS coach then it is a snub. I seriously doubt that UCF coaches were intentionally ignoring local talent. My guess is that they were having to go elsewhere to find coaches that would push talent in UCF's direction.

Now should they have spent more time locally stroking egos? Probably. If I had to guess GOL did not have much patience with that. also probably a GOL ego thing as well.

 

[hendu1976fl]

To be honest, speaking from personal experience, UCF did not make a push for local talent. I'm not talking about guys who were tier 2 level talent. Some of our guys went to USF, some went to Florida. The last three years I coached, a Georgia coached came and visited us every year, even the year we didn't have anybody they were recruiting. He took the time to build a relationship. "Coach, you guys are having a pretty good year this year. Didn't expect it with all you lost." Spend some time shooting the bull. And then the next thing you know we're telling him about a kid down the road that really isn't getting a lot of looks that should be. That is what recruiting is about. Finding the Blake Bortles and JJ Wortons of the world. Under valued commodities that you can find with the help of some friends. Of the guys we sent to UF and USF, UCF never showed up once. Our head coach wasn't pushing anybody on GOL, his words were, "If you do crap like that, they won't be interested when you have a good one." Yet GOL never recruited our guys. In all fairness though, 2 of them he was right to avoid, the other 3 were good kids. Hopefully, the new staff will take time to build relationships with local coaches.

 

[SCKnight]

To be honest, speaking from personal experience, UCF did not make a push for local talent. I'm not talking about guys who were tier 2 level talent. Some of our guys went to USF, some went to Florida. The last three years I coached, a Georgia coached came and visited us every year, even the year we didn't have anybody they were recruiting. He took the time to build a relationship. "Coach, you guys are having a pretty good year this year. Didn't expect it with all you lost." Spend some time shooting the bull. And then the next thing you know we're telling him about a kid down the road that really isn't getting a lot of looks that should be. That is what recruiting is about. Finding the Blake Bortles and JJ Wortons of the world. Under valued commodities that you can find with the help of some friends. Of the guys we sent to UF and USF, UCF never showed up once. Our head coach wasn't pushing anybody on GOL, his words were, "If you do crap like that, they won't be interested when you have a good one." Yet GOL never recruited our guys. In all fairness though, 2 of them he was right to avoid, the other 3 were good kids. Hopefully, the new staff will take time to build relationships with local coaches.

This is a great perspective. thanks. From your experience how much of that is on the coach assigned to the area and how much do head coaches really do this? I don't know how that is directed at all and I am curious as to the process.

 

[Poolside Knight]

To be honest, speaking from personal experience, UCF did not make a push for local talent. I'm not talking about guys who were tier 2 level talent. Some of our guys went to USF, some went to Florida. The last three years I coached, a Georgia coached came and visited us every year, even the year we didn't have anybody they were recruiting. He took the time to build a relationship. "Coach, you guys are having a pretty good year this year. Didn't expect it with all you lost." Spend some time shooting the bull. And then the next thing you know we're telling him about a kid down the road that really isn't getting a lot of looks that should be. That is what recruiting is about. Finding the Blake Bortles and JJ Wortons of the world. Under valued commodities that you can find with the help of some friends. Of the guys we sent to UF and USF, UCF never showed up once. Our head coach wasn't pushing anybody on GOL, his words were, "If you do crap like that, they won't be interested when you have a good one." Yet GOL never recruited our guys. In all fairness though, 2 of them he was right to avoid, the other 3 were good kids. Hopefully, the new staff will take time to build relationships with local coaches.

Having a HC on that high perch acting like a CEO does not work anymore in today's recruiting world.

A recent ESPN The Magazine piece that talked about Urban Meyer's Gators had a good example of this lazy approach even from an In State Traditional Power FSU. Urban and his whole staff pounded the pavement non stop doing this while later years Bobby Bowden took the CEO approach. One example was the Pouncey Brothers who said they grew up FSU fans and had them as their early leader till they made their visit and Bowden didn't even know their names while Urban was showing them attention non stop & that led them to committing to UF.