Does the recorded phone call change anything? Minds, Georgia, or

[sk8knight]

Perfect call.

“The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

Make sure you archive this one because it’s not Trump that has been abridging freedom, liberty, and demanding cultural conformance in the country. I find that this applies quite well to those of you ascribing the worst of all evils to Trump over the last four years based on nothing but your own fears.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”

 

[NinjaKnight]

Perfect call.

“The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

Wish I could like this twice. Its a damn cult.

 

[Ucfmikes]

So... is there anything to this or is it another initial CNN overreaction? Another nothingburger?

 

[Ucfmikes]

Wish I could like this twice. Its a damn cult.

You can’t because everyone has you in ignore or you ignore everyone. Snowflake

 

[DaShuckster]

There is context that is missing from the way they present this. The context doesn't make it better or worse but its far from the narrative that Trump called raffensberger and threatened him if he didn't find enough votes to flip the state.

The call was "far from the narrative that Trump threatened Raffensberger"? Did you listen to the tape?

Throughout the call, Trump tried every possible way from alternately berating him, flattering him, begging him -- and yes, threatening him with vague criminal consequences if the secretary of state refused to pursue his claims of voter fraud.

Trump urged Raffensperger to announce that he had "recalculated" the election results. There is little way to interpret the conversation other than a request by the President for the state's election office to commit an unambiguous act of fraud.

"So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state," Trump said. At another point, he said that it would be a "criminal offense" if Raffensperger and his office did not back up his false claims of ballot destruction, and a "big risk to you and your lawyer." Sure sounds like a threat to me.

 

[Crazyhole]

The call was "far from the narrative that Trump threatened Raffensberger"? Did you listen to the tape?

Throughout the call, Trump tried every possible way from alternately berating him, flattering him, begging him -- and yes, threatening him with vague criminal consequences if the secretary of state refused to pursue his claims of voter fraud.

Trump urged Raffensperger to announce that he had "recalculated" the election results. There is little way to interpret the conversation other than a request by the President for the state's election office to commit an unambiguous act of fraud.

"So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state," Trump said. At another point, he said that it would be a "criminal offense" if Raffensperger and his office did not back up his false claims of ballot destruction, and a "big risk to you and your lawyer." Sure sounds like a threat to me.

I said above that Trump threatened him.

 

[DaShuckster]

I said above that Trump threatened him.

Okay. I read it differently. Nevermind then.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

So... is there anything to this or is it another initial CNN overreaction? Another nothingburger?

What does CNN have to do with a publicly available recording of a phone call?

 

[Ucfmikes]

What does CNN have to do with a publicly available recording of a phone call?

They report things related to Trump like the world is ending.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

They report things related to Trump like the world is ending.

I think this was released by the GA Secretary of State through the Washington Post.

 

[NinjaKnight]

 

[DaShuckster]

They report things related to Trump like the world is ending.

Yeah, the media makes a mountain out of a molehill. It was only the President of the United States threatening the Georgia secretary of state to 'recalculate' 11,780 votes so he could 'rightfully' win the State or he else could be in trouble.*


You can't make this level of batshit craziness up.

 

[Ucfmikes]

Yeah, the media makes a mountain out of a molehill. It was only the President of the United States threatening the Georgia secretary of state to 'recalculate' 11,780 votes so he could 'rightfully' win the State or he else could be in trouble.*


You can't make this level of batshit craziness up.

He said “in trouble?” What kind of trouble?

 

[NinjaKnight]

The voters can't be trusted. The dozens of independent polls can't be trusted. The GOP led states can't be trusted. The voting machines can't be trusted. The lower, appeals and Supreme courts can't be trusted.

The only one you can trust is Trump, you know, the guy with 20K documented lies.

Ya'll belong to a cult.

 

[DaShuckster]

I checked out the Georgia Senate race and was stunned to learn that both races are neck-and-neck with 95% of the votes in. I would have wagered the chances of the Democrats winning both seats akin to the proverbial 'snowball's chance in hell.'

I'd still wager at least Perdue (R) will win his race but I would have bet the farm once the runoff was announced that this was a shoo-in for both of the Republican candidates.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

I checked out the Georgia Senate race and was stunned to learn that both races are neck-and-neck with 95% of the votes in. I would have wagered the chances of the Democrats winning both seats akin to the proverbial 'snowball's chance in hell.'

I'd still wager at least Perdue (R) will win his race but I would have bet the farm once the runoff was announced that this was a shoo-in for both of the Republican candidates.

Neither GOP candidate has a shot at this point. The remaining votes are in heavily blue areas.

 

[NinjaKnight]

"If donald trump gets elected we will get destroyed and we will deserve it"

-Lindsay Graham

 

[sk8knight]

Neither GOP candidate has a shot at this point. The remaining votes are in heavily blue areas.

It's an extremely convenient thing that the heavily blue areas are always the last to be counted. If I had a mind to swing an election, it sure would be nice to know the numbers I needed to achieve to ensure a victory. I mean, no one would ever do such a thing in "the most important election in the history of this country in order to defeat the world's greatest evil in nearly 100 years," but if they were of such a mind it sure would make it easier if the last districts were all heavily blue and no one would question more blue votes coming in from those areas.

Whether it happened or not is immaterial, there will be a lot of people that will believe fully that the votes were stuffed in these blue areas. It is what it is.

 

[Boosted87]

I checked out the Georgia Senate race and was stunned to learn that both races are neck-and-neck with 95% of the votes in. I would have wagered the chances of the Democrats winning both seats akin to the proverbial 'snowball's chance in hell.'

I'd still wager at least Perdue (R) will win his race but I would have bet the farm once the runoff was announced that this was a shoo-in for both of the Republican candidates.

Tip - Pay attention to the NYT "Needle" on election day when it's running. It absolutely nailed Georgia in the general (and FL and NC for that matter - the only 3 states they did). I knew it would be really good last night because it would be using everything it just learned in the general. Follow Nate Cohn on Twitter.

It's amazing how accurate it was last night with just a little bit of data. Because they know exactly how the November election turned out, it didn't take much data for the model to get a really good handle on this election.

Even when huge vote dumps would come in favoring Republicans, the model was just confirming what it expected OR tilting further blue. By about 8:00, it was already at Ossoff +0.8. Never got below +0.5 after that and has settled up at +1.1 now.

The cable news guys are hamstrung not to call races early - but the data guys on Twitter were way out in front. Dave Wasserman on twitter called it for Ossoff just a few minutes after your post.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

It's an extremely convenient thing that the heavily blue areas are always the last to be counted. If I had a mind to swing an election, it sure would be nice to know the numbers I needed to achieve to ensure a victory. I mean, no one would ever do such a thing in "the most important election in the history of this country in order to defeat the world's greatest evil in nearly 100 years," but if they were of such a mind it sure would make it easier if the last districts were all heavily blue and no one would question more blue votes coming in from those areas.

Whether it happened or not is immaterial, there will be a lot of people that will believe fully that the votes were stuffed in these blue areas. It is what it is.

Kiss the ring

 

[sk8knight]

Kiss the ring

I love how glib you and @KnighttimeJoe are about a platform winning that I’m guessing you don’t have a lot of belief in. It’ll be fun analyzing all of the unity and change and production that will occur over the next 2-4 years.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

I love how glib you and @KnighttimeJoe are about a platform winning that I’m guessing you don’t have a lot of belief in. It’ll be fun analyzing all of the unity and change and production that will occur over the next 2-4 years.

Awww. I am sooooo sorry I triggered you for clicking the "haha" emoji at "kiss the ring." I thought his retort was funny. Do you need a hug?

 

[Boosted87]

It's an extremely convenient thing that the heavily blue areas are always the last to be counted. If I had a mind to swing an election, it sure would be nice to know the numbers I needed to achieve to ensure a victory. I mean, no one would ever do such a thing in "the most important election in the history of this country in order to defeat the world's greatest evil in nearly 100 years," but if they were of such a mind it sure would make it easier if the last districts were all heavily blue and no one would question more blue votes coming in from those areas.

Whether it happened or not is immaterial, there will be a lot of people that will believe fully that the votes were stuffed in these blue areas. It is what it is.

I don't necessarily think it's the timing. It's the size of the vote batches. Republicans are winning a whole bunch of a small counties. So their "vote dumps" are many small bites. Meanwhile, Democrats are winning urban centers and huge counties, so you have a smaller number of much larger dumps.

If a HUGE county drops 200k votes at 2:00 am is that really any different than some rural county dropping 2,000 votes at 2:00am? Only one moves the needle but they could be proportional when it comes to population, but no one is screaming "FRAUD" at the rural county.

No intelligent election observer that tracks the data sees anything suspicious. Heck, the state of GA reported the number of absentee / early votes ahead of time. We already knew exactly how many votes would get "dumped" from these counties before the election even started yesterday. The only variable in turnout was the day-of vote.

So when you know a county has 200k outstanding early votes, and you know that county goes 80/20 democrat - how is it surprising or suspicious when they release vote totals that are 160k D / 40k R ?

 

[sk8knight]

Awww. I am sooooo sorry I triggered you for clicking the "haha" emoji at "kiss the ring." Do you need a hug?

Maybe. I’d really appreciate a Biden shoulder rub but unfortunately I’m an adult male so he’d probably just insult me and try to fight.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

I love how glib you and @KnighttimeJoe are about a platform winning that I’m guessing you don’t have a lot of belief in. It’ll be fun analyzing all of the unity and change and production that will occur over the next 2-4 years.

Honestly it’s refreshing that McConnell won’t be senate majority leader. Maybe Biden cabinet or Supreme Court nominees can actually get a vote. Manchin will keep the progressive arm of the party from implementing far left policies. It’s really the best of both worlds. Measures or nominations that could be voted on will no longer be DOA at one obstructionist’s feet. But the filibuster will still prevent super left agendas.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Maybe. I’d really appreciate a Biden shoulder rub but unfortunately I’m an adult male so he’d probably just insult me and try to fight.

I'll just blow in your ear then.

 

[sk8knight]

I don't necessarily think it's the timing. It's the size of the vote batches. Republicans are winning a whole bunch of a small counties. So their "vote dumps" are many small bites. Meanwhile, Democrats are winning urban centers and huge counties, so you have a smaller number of much larger dumps.

If a HUGE county drops 200k votes at 2:00 am is that really any different than some rural county dropping 2,000 votes at 2:00am? Only one moves the needle but they could be proportional when it comes to population, but no one is screaming "FRAUD" at the rural county.

No intelligent election observer that tracks the data sees anything suspicious. Heck, the state of GA reported the number of absentee / early votes ahead of time. We already knew exactly how many votes would get "dumped" from these counties before the election even started yesterday. The only variable in turnout was the day-of vote.

So when you know a county has 200k outstanding early votes, and you know that county goes 80/20 democrat - how is it surprising or suspicious when they release vote totals that are 160k D / 40k R ?

I get what you’re saying and how it makes sense. The issue is the overall turnout and that I’m not certain the late votes come in at that same ratio. The Democrat vote in the 6 contentious states turned out far beyond historic numbers for a guy that ran a campaign from his basement and refused to answer any questions. Especially Atlanta and it’s suburbs. I guess Stacy Abrams gets credit for turning out the black vote far more than they turned out for the unprecedented Obama election.

I can accept what you’re saying. But I’m telling you that there are many people who truly believe that the numbers are funny and they can point to statistical trends to make their case as well. It’s not a blind cultist thing like you all want to dismiss it and continuing to denigrate people who are not stupid as being blind stupid idiots is not a good way to go about being unified.

Oh I know it’s just a message board but I do value trying to have a good conversation.

 

[DaShuckster]

Honestly it’s refreshing that McConnell won’t be senate majority leader.

We won't have McConnell's expected BS delays on Cabinet approvals. We can get the stimulus out there that many Americans desperately need. Hell, we might even FINALLY get some much-needed infrastructure spending.

The Usual Suspects will whine about socialism but this upset was a victory for the moderate middle.

I still find it amazing this has happened. I would have bet the farm back in November that there was no way in hell that Georgia would elect two Democrat Senators. Anyone who thinks Trump's post-election antics didn't play a role in this outcome is delusional.

 

[Boosted87]

Honestly it’s refreshing that McConnell won’t be senate majority leader. Maybe Biden cabinet or Supreme Court nominees can actually get a vote. Manchin will keep the progressive arm of the party from implementing far left policies. It’s really the best of both worlds. Measures or nominations that could be voted on will no longer be DOA at one obstructionist’s feet. But the filibuster will still prevent super left agendas.

This is pretty much how I feel.

One thing that's going to be really interesting to watch - how does the "populist" wing of the party move forward on economic issues? We just saw Josh Hawley and Bernie Sanders standing together to push for $2k stimulus checks. I still think it's crazy that it took Trump until Dec 2020 to figure out how powerful economic populism could be. Could we see a right-wing populist set of Senators further align themselves with Bernie on other economic issues?

 

[Crazyhole]

We won't have McConnell's expected BS delays on Cabinet approvals. We can get the stimulus out there that many Americans desperately need. Hell, we might even FINALLY get some much-needed infrastructure spending.

The Usual Suspects will whine about socialism but this upset was a victory for the moderate middle.

I still find it amazing this has happened. I would have bet the farm back in November that there was no way in hell that Georgia would elect two Democrat Senators. Anyone who thinks Trump's post-election antics didn't play a role in this outcome is delusional.

The only thing Trump did to affect this election was kicking the relief bill back and telling the senate to go up to 2000 bucks.

 

[DaShuckster]

The only thing Trump did to affect this election was kicking the relief bill back and telling the senate to go up to 2000 bucks.

Time to take your blinders off, Crazy. Trump's post-election antics may have given you goosebumps, but most Americans -- of both parties -- viewed them and got sick to their stomachs.

 

[Crazyhole]

Time to take your blinders off, Crazy. Trump's post-election antics may have given you goosebumps, but most Americans -- of both parties -- viewed them and got sick to their stomachs.

I've got blinders on? 2 days ago I said dems would win both of these seats and you said there was no way. Even you didn't think trumps antics were enough to move the needle.

 

[DaShuckster]

I've got blinders on? 2 days ago I said dems would win both of these seats and you said there was no way. Even you didn't think trumps antics were enough to move the needle.

But Trump DIDN'T move the needle?

Let's see.....He trashes the State's Republican Governor....he threatens the State's Republican Secretary of State....he calls the State's November election "rigged" but then turns around and asks for his cult to vote in January anyway.

 

[Crazyhole]

But Trump DIDN'T move the needle?

Let's see.....He trashes the State's Republican Governor....he threatens the State's Republican Secretary of State....he calls the State's November election "rigged" but then turns around and asks for his cult to vote in January anyway.

This is the best pollster in the business.

 

[Crazyhole]

 

[Boosted87]

I get what you’re saying and how it makes sense. The issue is the overall turnout and that I’m not certain the late votes come in at that same ratio. The Democrat vote in the 6 contentious states turned out far beyond historic numbers for a guy that ran a campaign from his basement and refused to answer any questions. Especially Atlanta and it’s suburbs. I guess Stacy Abrams gets credit for turning out the black vote far more than they turned out for the unprecedented Obama election.

I can accept what you’re saying. But I’m telling you that there are many people who truly believe that the numbers are funny and they can point to statistical trends to make their case as well. It’s not a blind cultist thing like you all want to dismiss it and continuing to denigrate people who are not stupid as being blind stupid idiots is not a good way to go about being unified.

Oh I know it’s just a message board but I do value trying to have a good conversation.

The only reason I show up on here is to find intelligent people who disagree with me - perspective is valued.

Stacy Abrams gets a ton of credit. Georgia is like 30% black with historically really poor turnout. All she's doing is getting people to vote that normally don't (much like Trump has achieved). Obama certainly motivated and inspired, but it takes on-the-ground organization to register and turn out voters. I mean, if Obama ran in GA today is there really any doubt he'd win it?

I don't understand your point about democratic turnout in swing states. Can you point me to the data you're thinking of here?

 

[sk8knight]

The only reason I show up on here is to find intelligent people who disagree with me - perspective is valued.

Stacy Abrams gets a ton of credit. Georgia is like 30% black with historically really poor turnout. All she's doing is getting people to vote that normally don't (much like Trump has achieved). Obama certainly motivated and inspired, but it takes on-the-ground organization to register and turn out voters. I mean, if Obama ran in GA today is there really any doubt he'd win it?

I don't understand your point about democratic turnout in swing states. Can you point me to the data you're thinking of here?

I could but at this point I'm worn out and far too busy at work with a baby on the way as well (due the 11th). I'm not trying to be rude but I just don't have the time to pull it all together. I'm not even saying that they're right as I don't have time to dig into their numbers either. But they are getting a lot of traction with plausible arguments and especially with people that feel like Republicans, and Trump primarily, haven't gotten a fair shake over the last 4 years due to incessant attacks from the media and Democrats. They feel they've been ignored and denigrated and only now that Democrats and the media (Chris Cuomo even slipped and said "We won" last night before blabbering out "democracy won" to cover himself) have won everything are there calls for "unity."

 

[DaShuckster]

I could but at this point I'm worn out and far too busy at work with a baby on the way as well (due the 11th). I'm not trying to be rude but I just don't have the time to pull it all together. I'm not even saying that they're right as I don't have time to dig into their numbers either.

Yeah, taking time to ascertain the truth takes way too much time and energy. It's much easier to just regurgitate whatever election bullshit Trump spouts. 🙄

 

[Trigeek]

It's an extremely convenient thing that the heavily blue areas are always the last to be counted. If I had a mind to swing an election, it sure would be nice to know the numbers I needed to achieve to ensure a victory. I mean, no one would ever do such a thing in "the most important election in the history of this country in order to defeat the world's greatest evil in nearly 100 years," but if they were of such a mind it sure would make it easier if the last districts were all heavily blue and no one would question more blue votes coming in from those areas.

Whether it happened or not is immaterial, there will be a lot of people that will believe fully that the votes were stuffed in these blue areas. It is what it is.

You do understand and appreciate that the Blue areas are typically where the most people reside. More people, more ballots, more time... Not too difficult to figure out...
Most of the Red counties measure in the 1000's plus a cow...
Blue counties measure in the 100,000's plus emotional support pets

 

[hemightbejeremy]

You do understand and appreciate that the Blue areas are typically where the most people reside. More people, more ballots, more time... Not too difficult to figure out...
Most of the Red counties measure in the 1000's plus a cow...
Blue counties measure in the 100,000's plus emotional support pets

The red counties weren’t any “quicker” in submitting 100% results anyway. They are just much less populated and when they submitted results it barely changes anything. Meanwhile when a county submits 171k votes it overshadows the 5k counties.