Great pub for UCF*

[bqknight]

question for @ bqknight and other fans of Democratic Socialism, with current demographics somewhere in the middle between the Nordic Nations and Venezuela what makes you think it would work here?

Well first off, I think there needs to be a willingness to make it work, which we don't have and I don't think we will ever have. I don't think a large chunk of people will ever give more to the government, even if it did mean an overall higher quality of life for the overall population.

Unfortunately, no economic system works perfectly, if there was one, everyone would adopt it. I do believe that the government is the only institution that can fairly provide for it's population as a whole. Privatizing certain aspects of society (prisons, healthcare) take the focus away from helping people and more about just making money.

I know a lot of you will and will always disagree with me and that's fine. I don't think it would be an easy road to switch over to a more "Democratic Socialist" society - however - it's one I would like to see. I don't want the government to completely take away private enterprise - that's silly. There are just certain areas that I believe an institution like the government is only capable of handling.

I also don't think people should just be able to freeload their whole life. I do believe in drug screenings and checks to ensure people are at least attempting to be active members of society.

 

[UCFWayne]

Socialism will never work because you have to have 100% buy in. Socialism has actually already failed 2 times right here in the USA. If socialism couldnt work with those 2 ideal start ups, it will always fail any where else.

 

[rediceknight]

cultrual marxism and its institutions must be dismantled on a permanent basis! Every single cultural marxist teacher and academic must be fired. None must be remained.
sjw and libtard f@gs must be eliminated from campus too

 

[Happy Hands]

There are just certain areas that I believe an institution like the government is only capable of handeling

The government is really good at starting wars and putting people in prison. It's only useful for settling legal disputes and, in theory, protecting the borders. There is probably little else that wouldn't work better if it was privatized and moved away from government control.

Without economic incentive, companies would waste money and produce poor products. This is what the government does. I can't imagine someone, who has seen the quality of our governmental products, would want it to have more control.

 

[bqknight]

The government is really good at starting wars and putting people in prison. It's only useful for settling legal disputes and, in theory, protecting the borders. There is probably little else that wouldn't work better if it was privatized and moved away from government control.

Without economic incentive, companies would waste money and produce poor products. This is what the government does. I can't imagine someone, who has seen the quality of our governmental products, would want it to have more control.

But see. I can say this about private corporations as well, there are myriads of horrible products and services out there brought forward by private industry. The government nowadays almost always contracts stuff out to private businesses.

Like I said, there isn't a perfect solution, I'm aware of that. I also don't think the government should own EVERYTHING, I just think they should have a say in key critical services that benefit all of society. I don't trust private corporations to do it, just like a lot of you don't trust the government to do it.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

But see. I can say this about private corporations as well, there are myriads of horrible products and services out there brought forward by private industry. The government nowadays almost always contracts stuff out to private businesses.

Yes, but when their product fails and/or no one wants to buy it the business goes under and they are replaced by a company that can do it better. When the government fails they just raise taxes to cover the loss and move on to the next project they will screw up.

As for government contracts, that is just an example of government ineptness flowing to the private sector. There are no real budgets or deadlines set by the government so of course companies are going to take advantage of that. It's not the companies fault that their customer is a mentally challenged toddler and they can easily take advantage of them with no repercussions.

 

[btbones]

our govt can't take care of itself much less the entire country

 

[UCFKnight85]

But see. I can say this about private corporations as well, there are myriads of horrible products and services out there brought forward by private industry. The government nowadays almost always contracts stuff out to private businesses.

Like I said, there isn't a perfect solution, I'm aware of that. I also don't think the government should own EVERYTHING, I just think they should have a say in key critical services that benefit all of society. I don't trust private corporations to do it, just like a lot of you don't trust the government to do it.

Um, the difference is that when a company produces a shitty product, people can choose not to buy it. The company either adapts, changes, or dies. And we don't end up footing the bill for that.

When the government develops a shitty new level of government to provide some shitty "service", we're stuck with it. It does not die. People are losing their shit over a Dept of Education secretary when the entire department shouldn't exist in the first place.

Our only truly government run health care system is the VA and it's an utter disaster. Which is grossly unfair since it is supposed to treat the people arguably most deserving of great health care. If we can't get the VA to be a success story, despite bipartisan support across the board, then I shutter to think what would happen if the government assumed control of all delivery of medical services and coverages.

 

[btbones]

Agree 100 % about the department of education

 

[UCFKnightfan08]

Damn, @Jedi.Knight came out swinging, must have trained with the lefties on campus*

 

[UCFWayne]

@bqknight do you do any online shopping? ever get those email confirmations that your product has shipped? Another email that its in route and a little display that tells you where it is?

Yea, that would have never existed if only the USPS was in charge. They had no incentive to create the mechanisms to make that work. They only offer it now because UPS/FedEx led the way and they had to keep up.

The government has 0 incentive to innovate.

 

[bqknight]

@bqknight do you do any online shopping? ever get those email confirmations that your product has shipped? Another email that its in route and a little display that tells you where it is?

Yea, that would have never existed if only the USPS was in charge. They had no incentive to create the mechanisms to make that work. They only offer it now because UPS/FedEx led the way and they had to keep up.

The government has 0 incentive to innovate.

That's really the example you decided to use? You're speaking in hypotheticals first of all, you can't possibly know what would have happened. Saying government programs don't innovate it dumb as well, that's not the case. Maybe at a slower rate than some private companies but I also think that has to do with not everyone "buying in". We all believe in different things, so the bureaucracy kills us.

Also, I never said private enterprise should be abolished, I said certain programs and services should be provided by the government. I'm not opposed to choice. Healthcare for example. I think it should be provided to every citizen, free of charge. Now, do I also think that there should be private insurance companies that people who make that choice can go off and buy a more premium product? Yeah, I'm cool with that too.

You can disagree with me all you want but this is pretty much how I view the political spectrum. There are extremes on both sides, there are crazy "liberals" and crazy "conservatives", they do pretty much no one good, they pretty much just whine to whine. However, the more down to earth conservatives tend to be very self-centered and short sighted. They care about how everything will affect them and how it will affect them now. Lower taxes, it will help me make more money now. Who cares about the environment? I'm okay now - we will deal with it later. Liberals on the other hand are willing to sacrifice some of their "well-being" (money, etc.) for the betterment of society.

You all always harp on about how I will get mad when they start taxing my hard worked dollars (which they already do and have for quite awhile). I'm okay with that - I'm perfectly happy to give more to help the country as a whole. Once I make more, I'm okay with giving more, I have more to give.

 

[UCFWayne]

I dont think you understand what "health care provided to every citizen free of cost" actually means. I assume you love higher taxes? I bet when you do your taxes and you see the amount you could get back, but then decide that youll just let the government keep it.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I got a note back from UCF with an absolute bullshit line of excuse. Basically said "free speech and not a student group", despite the fact that they used campus property to hold an event which promotes violence targeted at Republicans.

Honestly, fuk UCF. I love the football team but I'm content to not give another dime. UCF is headed off the rails like every other cesspool university.

 

[bqknight]

I dont think you understand what "health care provided to every citizen free of cost" actually means. I assume you love higher taxes? I bet when you do your taxes and you see the amount you could get back, but then decide that youll just let the government keep it.

I've already covered this in my post, please read. Yes, I am okay with paying more taxes for the betterment of society, ESPECIALLY free healthcare. I also believe that premium healthcare should be made available for people who would like to pay the extra costs. Once again, we believe in different things, you don't have to like it but it's what I believe. Increase my taxes by a bit and get rid of my health insurance coming out of my paycheck each week? Yeah, I'm cool with that.

 

[bqknight]

I got a note back from UCF with an absolute bullshit line of excuse. Basically said "free speech and not a student group", despite the fact that they used campus property to hold an event which promotes violence targeted at Republicans.

Honestly, fuk UCF. I love the football team but I'm content to not give another dime. UCF is headed off the rails like every other cesspool university.

UCFAA is a separate entity isn't it? You should be good.

 

[ucfdoc]

Healthcare for example. I think it should be provided to every citizen, free of charge. Now, do I also think that there should be private insurance companies that people who make that choice can go off and buy a more premium product? Yeah, I'm cool with that too.

The problem is once you have established healthcare as a right you must then determine the quality of that healthcare that is the right of every individual. In your example you refer that those who want a premium product can go a private route. Thus you admit there will be different standards of quality. I assert to you that today in the US every resident (citizen or not) has access to free healthcare. The current standard is Emergency Care. Emergency care is not denied to anyone. Trying to change that standard and define what other standard of healthcare is free is very problematic. Currently today the government provides housing. It however is not providing mansions for those of need. Why are we trying to provide the "Mansions" in healthcare.

 

[Great2BAKnight2]

Do you want to experiment with Democratic Socialism? Ok, decentralize power from the federal government and let the states have free reign to impose such programs. If it's an utter failure or people dislike it, they can move to another state or the state can change course. If it flourishes, other states will put in the same programs or more people will flock to that state.

I disagree at a fundamental level that power should be further centralized in Washington, it's a recipe for disaster. The federal government is tasked with handling disputes between states (via the Federal Courts, not by Congressional Law), national defense, and foreign policy. Everything else should be State run.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

I've already covered this in my post, please read. Yes, I am okay with paying more taxes for the betterment of society, ESPECIALLY free healthcare. I also believe that premium healthcare should be made available for people who would like to pay the extra costs. Once again, we believe in different things, you don't have to like it but it's what I believe. Increase my taxes by a bit and get rid of my health insurance coming out of my paycheck each week? Yeah, I'm cool with that.

Lol, your taxes would increase by more than you're currently paying for health insurance under your plan. Taxes wouldn't go up a bit, they would go up a lot.

 

[bqknight]

The problem is once you have established healthcare as a right you must then determine the quality of that healthcare that is the right of every individual. In your example you refer that those who want a premium product can go a private route. Thus you admit there will be different standards of quality. I assert to you that today in the US every resident (citizen or not) has access to free healthcare. The current standard is Emergency Care. Emergency care is not denied to anyone. Trying to change that standard and define what other standard of healthcare is free is very problematic. Currently today the government provides housing. It however is not providing mansions for those of need. Why are we trying to provide the "Mansions" in healthcare.

Never said it would be easy to implement, just that I think it should. I'm not 85 and think I have the answer to everything and that every issue is as easy as do this and that and BAM! it's magically fixed.

I have a system of beliefs and I stick to them, just like you all stick to yours.

 

[bqknight]

Lol, your taxes would increase by more than you're currently paying for health insurance under your plan. Taxes wouldn't go up a bit, they would go up a lot.

Eh - it hasn't been implemented so you don't really know that. Under most plans I have seen - I would pay about the same in taxes in what I pay for healthcare - and this doesn't take into account what I actually pay in doctor's visits, medicine, etc.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Eh - it hasn't been implemented so you don't really know that. Under most plans I have seen - I would pay about the same in taxes in what I pay for healthcare - and this doesn't take into account what I actually pay in doctor's visits, medicine, etc.

I do know that. It's simple math. You will be paying for millions of people that don't currently have or want healthcare. That's why my premium tripled since Obamacare kicked in.

 

[UCFWayne]

@bqknight, please tell me what percentage of your income you are willing to give up to achieve healthcare for all. I assume its around 40-50%. Because that is what would be needed to fund healthcare for all.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I've already covered this in my post, please read. Yes, I am okay with paying more taxes for the betterment of society, ESPECIALLY free healthcare. I also believe that premium healthcare should be made available for people who would like to pay the extra costs. Once again, we believe in different things, you don't have to like it but it's what I believe. Increase my taxes by a bit and get rid of my health insurance coming out of my paycheck each week? Yeah, I'm cool with that.

You're out of your mind if you think taxes would increase "a bit". Holy shit.

 

[UCFWayne]

You're out of your mind if you think taxes would increase "a bit". Holy shit.

he probably thinks the rich will pay more so he wont have to pay much of an increase.

 

[mwcga]

CA's Prop 55, the personal income tax increases on incomes over $250,000 to help fund healthcare, was approved last Nov. For that income, families cannot even afford a modest house in silicon valley. That kind of things made most valley engineers republican but still not outrageous enough to vote for trump.

 

[cnsaguy]

Free healthcare for all is such a utopian view. Sounds great on paper but the reality is that you'll be working hard to support all the fatties and losers that are willing to suck on the teet of the govt. Oh, and you'll be receiving the same level of treatment they are. Think on that for a bit.

 

[CommuterBob]

"Leftist fight club trains students to fight Republicans."

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8741

That headline is smidge misleading. If you read the article, they were a bit tongue in cheek about a series of self-defense seminars. They weren't doing paramilitary training.

That said, it's really not much different from this incident from last fall where white supremacist flyers were posted on campus. (and supposedly again this week).
UCF's response to that was to remove the flyers and set up counseling services for students who may need them and issued this statement:

http://knightnews.com/2016/11/ucf-responds-to-white-nationalist-fliers-on-campus/

“We recognize that diversity and inclusivity strengthen us, and we condemn any form of hate, discrimination and injustice.

“As we ponder and discuss race, religion and other important topics, our opinions and beliefs will often differ. It is in this spirit that I encourage you to actively listen, engage in scholarly dialogue and demonstrate our shared commitment to respect for all Knights. I challenge you to demonstrate civility. Acts of hate and offensive behavior will not be tolerated…

“We are all Knights. Let’s continue to support one another and stand united,”

SMDH

This is a teaser for a report being aired today:

 

[CommuterBob]

I got a note back from UCF with an absolute bullshit line of excuse. Basically said "free speech and not a student group", despite the fact that they used campus property to hold an event which promotes violence targeted at Republicans.

Honestly, fuk UCF. I love the football team but I'm content to not give another dime. UCF is headed off the rails like every other cesspool university.

That's some incredible BS, considering that UCF condemned a white supremacist group last fall, removed their flyers, and claimed that any intolerance or discrimination of any kind will not be tolerated.

EDIT: UCF's official statement:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/feat...os-ucf-leftist-fight-club-20170208-story.html

UCF spokesman Chad Binette said the club was not a registered student organization.
He added in a statement: “As Americans, all students have the right to free speech. However, we encourage our entire campus community to be inclusive and respect the diverse perspectives of others.”

 

[UCFKnightfan08]

@bqknight I respect your opinions and if you are willing to chip in 30, 40, 50% of your paycheck for healthcare for all then that's your deal. My job is to provide for my family, not the people that refuse to work and illegals.

 

[UCFWayne]

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8752

Now they plan on hosting “Whack-a-Trump Pinata” event.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Betsy DeVos was assaulted by thug left wing protestors today. But it's totally the right wingers these coward sacks of shit have to worry about!

 

[mwcga]

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8752

Now they plan on hosting “Whack-a-Trump Pinata” event.

They, including the Pinata might need to be reminded that treat people with respect if you want to be respected, unless it's internet.

 

[CommuterBob]

Betsy DeVos was assaulted by thug left wing protestors today. But it's totally the right wingers these coward sacks of shit have to worry about!

She was (unlawfully) physically blocked from entering a school. It's not really assault and nobody inflicted harm on her, but it shouldn't be condoned either. Probably paid protesters (white guy with a BLM sign?), too. How these clowns can get on school property during school hours is beyond me.

 

[UCFKnight85]

She was (unlawfully) physically blocked from entering a school. It's not really assault and nobody inflicted harm on her, but it shouldn't be condoned either. Probably paid protesters (white guy with a BLM sign?), too. How these clowns can get on school property during school hours is beyond me.

She was shoved forcefully to prevent her from entering. If I shove a woman in Publix, that's assault. This was assault.

There will be a backlash against this left wing violence and hate, and it will be ugly when it happens

 

[CommuterBob]

She was shoved forcefully to prevent her from entering. If I shove a woman in Publix, that's assault. This was assault.

There will be a backlash against this left wing violence and hate, and it will be ugly when it happens

If that's true, it wasn't on the video. The video clip I saw showed two people standing on the stairs in her way and holding on to both handrails, blocking her from entering. She was right up against them and I assume asking them to move, which they would not. She and her handler then turned around and left.

Maybe that happened before the video started, but it doesn't look that way. The hand on her is from her handler. I also have not seen a story that indicates she was shoved.

 

[UCFKnight85]

There's another video of her getting in the vehicle. In the story I read it was stated that witnesses saw a protestor shove her when getting in her face to scream at her.

These are absolute deranged piles of shit.

 

[CommuterBob]

There's another video of her getting in the vehicle. In the story I read it was stated that witnesses saw a protestor shove her when getting in her face to scream at her.

These are absolute deranged piles of shit.

If true, I agree. That is terrible.

Even if it isn't true, their actions aside from the "shove" are despicable. Protest all you want, but block access for others and standing in front of vehicles will not glean my opinion to your side. I thought I had read there was an arrest made, but I can't find verification of that.

There was a DC Fox affiliate who ran a story that she was shoved in the text, but it showed a different video clip that started even after the one I posted, basically with her just getting into the car.

If she was indeed shoved, that would definitely constitute assault.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I can only imagine the media coverage if conservatives were doing this to a Democrstic female Secretary.

 

[UCFWayne]

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8791

continuing to make UCF proud