How Bad are Trump's Lawyers?

[Boosted87]

I think you misunderstand what Trump represented and what it will do to the party. He replaced conservatism being the driving message with populism. He was the anti-politician. That sentiment isn't going away any time soon.

I agree but with a big caveat - this is a unique strain of populism manifested in the worst possible way - total commitment to a person, rather than a set of ideas. There's no way Tom Cotton or Nikki Haley or whomever can just step in and be the next populist MAGA champion.

Trump is the bridge that unites a very disparate group of people in a unique way. That is simply not replicable without Trump. That doesn't mean it's going away by any stretch - but it's not a durable populist movement IMO as long as Trump's ego is at the center.

 

[Crazyhole]

I agree but with a big caveat - this is a unique strain of populism manifested in the worst possible way - total commitment to a person, rather than a set of ideas. There's no way Tom Cotton or Nikki Haley or whomever can just step in and be the next populist MAGA champion.

Trump is the bridge that unites a very disparate group of people in a unique way. That is simply not replicable without Trump. That doesn't mean it's going away by any stretch - but it's not a durable populist movement IMO as long as Trump's ego is at the center.

I agree that it will be hard for any politician to recreate what Trump has done. That doesn't necessarily diminish the populist aspect of the movement though. In some ways, its kind of like what Obama did in 2008 so it can be done, but as with all populist candidates it will have to be a cult of personality type of guy. Right now that person doesn't stand out on either side, but there are 3 years for someone to grab that torch. Trump is definitely going to be a kingmaker in 2024.

 

[OLearyLastCall]

I agree that it will be hard for any politician to recreate what Trump has done. That doesn't necessarily diminish the populist aspect of the movement though. In some ways, its kind of like what Obama did in 2008 so it can be done, but as with all populist candidates it will have to be a cult of personality type of guy. Right now that person doesn't stand out on either side, but there are 3 years for someone to grab that torch. Trump is definitely going to be a kingmaker in 2024.

Trump won't be a kingmaker. That's not how he operates. In 2024, he will either be in federal prison, state prison, or running for President.

 

[Crazyhole]

Trump won't be a kingmaker. That's not how he operates. In 2024, he will either be in federal prison, state prison, or running for President.

Put Trump in prison and he becomes the next Nelson Mandela. The democrats know better than to let that happen.

 

[Boosted87]

Trump won't be a kingmaker. That's not how he operates. In 2024, he will either be in federal prison, state prison, or running for President.

I disagree. Trump despises losing. I highly doubts he risks the humiliation of losing again. His ego is much better insulated telling everyone this election was stolen and insisting how easily he would win if he ran again. He doesn't even like the job.

I do think he's going to act like he's running again. It's how he maintains power over the base and the party. Ultimately, it turns into a boot-licking contest to see who he supports.

 

[Crazyhole]

I disagree. Trump despises losing. I highly doubts he risks the humiliation of losing again. His ego is much better insulated telling everyone this election was stolen and insisting how easily he would win if he ran again. He doesn't even like the job.

I do think he's going to act like he's running again. It's how he maintains power over the base and the party. Ultimately, it turns into a boot-licking contest to see who he supports.

What do you think he would have to do to lose credibility with his base?

 

[Boosted87]

What do you think he would have to do to lose credibility with his base?

There's nothing that will cause him to lose the base because he'll never admit to being wrong. This is why someone like him is so dangerous to self-government. Bill Clinton admitted he was wrong. Nixon did the right thing and resigned. Nixon never lost the base. He could have fought and put a pressure campaign on lawmakers via the base, and if an alternative right-wing media ecosystem existed, he would have been able to (easily).

This is why concessions matter. They tell the rabid base of the party to move on to the next fight. Not to die on this hill. But rest assured, there is ALWAYS a radical element (on both sides) ready to do real battle. If you put someone in charge that actively seeks to raise tensions - rather than diffuse them - it becomes very dangerous.

 

[ChrisKnight06]

There's nothing that will cause him to lose the base because he'll never admit to being wrong. This is why someone like him is so dangerous to self-government. Bill Clinton admitted he was wrong. Nixon did the right thing and resigned. Nixon never lost the base. He could have fought and put a pressure campaign on lawmakers via the base, and if an alternative right-wing media ecosystem existed, he would have been able to (easily).

This is why concessions matter. They tell the rabid base of the party to move on to the next fight. Not to die on this hill. But rest assured, there is ALWAYS a radical element (on both sides) ready to do real battle. If you put someone in charge that actively seeks to raise tensions - rather than diffuse them - it becomes very dangerous.

Couldn't help but think of this article. Yea I know it just highlights a few individuals but it relates to your post.

Brett Fryar is a middle-class Republican. A 50-year-old chiropractor in this west Texas town, he owns a small business. He has two undergraduate degrees and a master’s degree, in organic chemistry. He attends Southcrest Baptist Church in nearby Lubbock.

Fryar didn’t much like Donald Trump at first, during the U.S. president’s 2016 campaign. He voted for Texas Senator Ted Cruz in the Republican primaries.

Now, Fryar says he would go to war for Trump. He has joined the newly formed South Plains Patriots, a group of a few hundred members that includes a “reactionary” force of about three dozen - including Fryar and his son, Caleb - who conduct firearms training.

Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly. They believe Trump’s stream of election-fraud allegations and say they’re preparing for the possibility of a “civil war” with the American political left.

"If President Trump comes out and says: 'Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won't listen, and I'm now calling on Americans to take up arms,' we would go," said Fryar, wearing a button-down shirt, pressed slacks and a paisley tie during a recent interview at his office.

Why Republican voters say there’s ‘no way in hell’ Trump lost

Brett Fryar is a middle-class Republican. Now, Fryar says he would go to war for Trump. Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly.

www.yahoo.com

 

[NinjaKnight]

Couldn't help but think of this article. Yea I know it just highlights a few individuals but it relates to your post.

Brett Fryar is a middle-class Republican. A 50-year-old chiropractor in this west Texas town, he owns a small business. He has two undergraduate degrees and a master’s degree, in organic chemistry. He attends Southcrest Baptist Church in nearby Lubbock.

Fryar didn’t much like Donald Trump at first, during the U.S. president’s 2016 campaign. He voted for Texas Senator Ted Cruz in the Republican primaries.

Now, Fryar says he would go to war for Trump. He has joined the newly formed South Plains Patriots, a group of a few hundred members that includes a “reactionary” force of about three dozen - including Fryar and his son, Caleb - who conduct firearms training.

Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly. They believe Trump’s stream of election-fraud allegations and say they’re preparing for the possibility of a “civil war” with the American political left.

"If President Trump comes out and says: 'Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won't listen, and I'm now calling on Americans to take up arms,' we would go," said Fryar, wearing a button-down shirt, pressed slacks and a paisley tie during a recent interview at his office.

Why Republican voters say there’s ‘no way in hell’ Trump lost

Brett Fryar is a middle-class Republican. Now, Fryar says he would go to war for Trump. Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly.

www.yahoo.com

So....it's a cult. Like I've been saying all along. No amount of evidence will change these people's minds. They believe their god-emperor irregardless of proof. It's a cult

 

[Crazyhole]

Couldn't help but think of this article. Yea I know it just highlights a few individuals but it relates to your post.

Brett Fryar is a middle-class Republican. A 50-year-old chiropractor in this west Texas town, he owns a small business. He has two undergraduate degrees and a master’s degree, in organic chemistry. He attends Southcrest Baptist Church in nearby Lubbock.

Fryar didn’t much like Donald Trump at first, during the U.S. president’s 2016 campaign. He voted for Texas Senator Ted Cruz in the Republican primaries.

Now, Fryar says he would go to war for Trump. He has joined the newly formed South Plains Patriots, a group of a few hundred members that includes a “reactionary” force of about three dozen - including Fryar and his son, Caleb - who conduct firearms training.

Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly. They believe Trump’s stream of election-fraud allegations and say they’re preparing for the possibility of a “civil war” with the American political left.

"If President Trump comes out and says: 'Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won't listen, and I'm now calling on Americans to take up arms,' we would go," said Fryar, wearing a button-down shirt, pressed slacks and a paisley tie during a recent interview at his office.

Why Republican voters say there’s ‘no way in hell’ Trump lost

Brett Fryar is a middle-class Republican. Now, Fryar says he would go to war for Trump. Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly.

www.yahoo.com

What do you want to bet that for at least the next 2 years, there will be more reporting on what Trump does than what Biden does?

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Unreal. Wake up, people. It’s all just a massive plot to undermine Trump.

How Joe Biden Stole the Election - SECRET UNCOVERED

An anonymous citizen reveals PROOF of how Joe Biden STOLE THIS ELECTION. His secret has been revealed, and it's worse the VOTER FRAUD...

howbidenstoletheelection.com

 

[Crazyhole]

Unreal. Wake up, people. It’s all just a massive plot to undermine Trump.

How Joe Biden Stole the Election - SECRET UNCOVERED

An anonymous citizen reveals PROOF of how Joe Biden STOLE THIS ELECTION. His secret has been revealed, and it's worse the VOTER FRAUD...

howbidenstoletheelection.com

I read that article earlier today. Pretty biased, but hard to refute their facts.

 

[DaShuckster]

What do you want to bet that for at least the next 2 years, there will be more reporting on what Trump does than what Biden does?

Depends on who is doing the reporting.

 

[Crazyhole]

Depends on who is doing the reporting.

Abc, CBS, NBC, cnn, msnbc, NYT, wapo. All will talk more about Trump than Biden.

 

[DaShuckster]

Abc, CBS, NBC, cnn, msnbc, NYT, wapo. All will talk more about Trump than Biden.

When he's no longer in the White House, I won't give a shit. Crazytown will be replaced by normal again. DC gridlock will have a comforting feel to it this time around.

 

[Boosted87]

"If President Trump comes out and says: 'Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won't listen, and I'm now calling on Americans to take up arms,' we would go," said Fryar, wearing a button-down shirt, pressed slacks and a paisley tie during a recent interview at his office.

This is what's scary about Trump. People like this will always exist and are always susceptible to being radicalized. Our DNA hasn't changed.

I think this is a mistake we make at times when people compare Trump to someone like Hitler. A much better comparison is the people themselves. Human history shows us the horrors we are capable of, the lengths we will go to defend something we believe in - no matter how flawed the beliefs.

Demagogues are simply vehicles that bring out the worst in us. Master manipulators of the masses. While I don't believe Trump has the power to truly spark a civil war (nor would he want to) - a single tweet could cause massive levels of civil unrest.

 

[Crazyhole]

This is what's scary about Trump. People like this will always exist and are always susceptible to being radicalized. Our DNA hasn't changed.

I think this is a mistake we make at times when people compare Trump to someone like Hitler. A much better comparison is the people themselves. Human history shows us the horrors we are capable of, the lengths we will go to defend something we believe in - no matter how flawed the beliefs.

Demagogues are simply vehicles that bring out the worst in us. Master manipulators of the masses. While I don't believe Trump has the power to truly spark a civil war (nor would he want to) - a single tweet could cause massive levels of civil unrest.

For a leader to actually get to the point of being like Hitler, they need to possess 3 qualities:

1. Cult of personality
2. Villainize a segment of the population
3. Vow to be a savior that will recreate the system to the benefit of the oppressed

The last 2 presidents have both tread disturbingly close to meeting those criteria. Biden doesn't, but we could have someone in 2024 that crosses that line from both sides.

 

[DaShuckster]

Crazyhole quoted Boosted87's post above without understanding a word he wrote.

 

[Crazyhole]

Crazyhole quoted Boosted87's post above without understanding a word he wrote.

I totally understand what he wrote. I was just expanding on it, because it takes more than just a willing people, it also takes a leader that sets them in motion.

 

[DaShuckster]

This is what's scary about Trump. People like this will always exist and are always susceptible to being radicalized. Our DNA hasn't changed.

I think this is a mistake we make at times when people compare Trump to someone like Hitler. A much better comparison is the people themselves. Human history shows us the horrors we are capable of, the lengths we will go to defend something we believe in - no matter how flawed the beliefs.

Demagogues are simply vehicles that bring out the worst in us. Master manipulators of the masses. While I don't believe Trump has the power to truly spark a civil war (nor would he want to) - a single tweet could cause massive levels of civil unrest.

Well said, Boosted87.

Growing up, I found it near-impossible to believe that there was a time when "normal" people could kill Jews in mass in concentration camps. But sadly, I can understand now. Trump is certainly not Hitler, but it's clear for anyone who is not a partisan-hack that our current President, time and time again, has severely "pushed against the democratic norms" of this country.

The fact that Trump could do it has not been surprising. The fact that so many Americans have witnessed it -- and yet continue to support such actions -- is.

 

[Crazyhole]

Well said, Boosted87.

Growing up, I found it near-impossible to believe that there was a time when "normal" people could kill Jews in mass in concentration camps. But sadly, I can understand now. Trump is certainly not Hitler, but it's clear for anyone who is not a partisan-hack that our current President, time and time again, has severely "pushed against the democratic norms" of this country.

The fact that Trump could do it has not been surprising. The fact that so many Americans have witnessed it -- and yet continue to support such actions -- is.

What democratic norms are you thinking of specifically? Not arguing, just curious what you see.

 

[DaShuckster]

What democratic norms are you thinking of specifically? Not arguing, just curious what you see.

Here are a few off the top of my head:

• After the election, trying to cajole, pressure, encourage, sweet talk, (pick your own word) state legislators to ignore the will of the people in their state and select electoral college voters who would vote for him.
• Refusing to concede the election for three weeks --embarrassing our nation in the world -- by claiming massive voter fraud without any evidence.
• Pressuring his Attorney General to jail his political opponent three weeks before the election.
• Operating with the most "Acting" appointees in our nation's history in order to avoid Congressional approval.
• Implementing a punitive immigration policy that deliberately separated families applying for entry at the border.
• Implementing an immigration ban based on one's religious status.
• Not divesting himself from his business interests as President and using his presidency to line his own pockets.
• Bringing his own family members into high-level government positions and, in the process, waiving national security concerns.
• Troublesome ties between countries where Trump has financial interests.
• Troublesome ties between the Trump campaign and Russian agents and the Russian-backed Wikileaks.
• Troublesome use of his presidency to pressure a country to help take down his political opponent.

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

If anyone thinks that Rudy wasn't absolutely coked out of his got damn mind yesterday, then I don't know what to tell you.

OMG that was sick/funny! LOL

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

What a crack legal team, can't tell the difference between "MN" and "MI" or the Four Seasons Hotel and a landscaping company.....

OMG the crack was a free for all!

 

[sk8knight]

There's nothing that will cause him to lose the base because he'll never admit to being wrong. This is why someone like him is so dangerous to self-government. Bill Clinton admitted he was wrong. Nixon did the right thing and resigned. Nixon never lost the base. He could have fought and put a pressure campaign on lawmakers via the base, and if an alternative right-wing media ecosystem existed, he would have been able to (easily).

This is why concessions matter. They tell the rabid base of the party to move on to the next fight. Not to die on this hill. But rest assured, there is ALWAYS a radical element (on both sides) ready to do real battle. If you put someone in charge that actively seeks to raise tensions - rather than diffuse them - it becomes very dangerous.

I just want to say that concessions don’t matter to the rabid base... or the media. I submit this evidence for your inspection (scroll down to the Michael Tracy tweets if you don’t want to read right wing stuff)

Why a Liberal Reporter Saved a Ton of Headlines from Liberal Media Outlets Concerning the Electoral College

townhall.com

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Hunter Biden's type of party. What a loser. Like his daddy.

But he’s not the biggest www.loser.com of the year, you fool!!!’ JajajajajajajajajajjaajjajajajA!