If Gus doesn’t make any changes

[Yaes]

Which game specifically did we overachieve in?

So what exactly are you saying Jeremy? Did we do the best we could with the players we have? Or, because of Coach Gus, we didn't do the best we could with the players we have? This is all over the board. If our players have no talent which many people are saying how is that Coach's fault. Except for some of the transfers from the portal that were available to him at the time, Gus didn't recruit them or for the most part train them. It seems to me we had a perfect storm. Some players not of the highest calibre, a new coach hired at the last minute who put together the best staff he could under the circumstances, a boatload of injuries and some teams in our conference which are better or as good as they were last year. This season from a win/loss perspective could have been a lot worse. Was it what I want to see for UCF, absolutely not but in light of a perfect storm, not too bad.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

So what exactly are you saying Jeremy? Did we do the best we could with the players we have? Or, because of Coach Gus, we didn't do the best we could with the players we have? This is all over the board. If our players have no talent which many people are saying how is that Coach's fault. Except for some of the transfers from the portal that were available to him at the time, Gus didn't recruit them or for the most part train them. It seems to me we had a perfect storm. Some players not of the highest calibre, a new coach hired at the last minute who put together the best staff he could under the circumstances, a boatload of injuries and some teams in our conference which are better or as good as they were last year. This season from a win/loss perspective could have been a lot worse. Was it what I want to see for UCF, absolutely not but in light of a perfect storm, not too bad.

Someone said we had overachieved. I simply asked him specifically in which game he thought we overachieved. Im curious to know which game result from this year was an overachievement.

 

[U C to the F]

I predicted 8-4 before the season. But we have failed to cover the game time spread against Boise, Louisville, Navy, ECU, Cincy, Tulane, and SMU. So based on expectations at game time we have underperformed against teams that aren’t FCS caliber teams (or Memphis on a 4th string QB).

True, but I only bet on the Boise and Louisville game before I reverted back to never betting on my team…it really ruins the game experience.

Side note, I covered on the Boise game, bet early when it was UCF -4. The Louisville game was an easy cover if the whole team didn’t get beat to shit…or Amari catches a ball at his chest.

 

[U C to the F]

Heupel is actually doing pretty well. Exceeded all expectations there for the year. Are you concerned at all that Gus hand picked Gatewood (he was the top Auburn overall recruit in 2018) and he couldn’t beat out a true freshman 🦛 player? Craig Myers is the highest rated Auburn recruit over the past 5 years and not sure if he even has a catch. MAR was the top 2019 RB in the Auburn class and top 3 overall and he was like a 5th string to start the year here out of spring ball. Is the answer that these players along with the most experienced O line in the conference returning all 5 starters (3 of whom were all conference selections last year) just suddenly have no talent? Or is there some limiting factor in an offensive scheme where a QB throws the ball 30 times and only 4 of them go beyond 10 yards from the line of scrimmage?

Listen, some of this has truth but you are trying to weakly support some sort of weird agenda against Gus to even more strangely support Heupel who ran our team into the ground. TN had nowhere to go but up, and oh my gosh, guess what, he’s beating bad teams with losing records and losing to every good team. Sound familiar, what a shock!

Speaking of transfers…No mention of Big Kat who has been solid? No mention of Barber who is a stud? No mention of Armstrong who has played phenomenal once kept at LB? Bowser, although injured a lot? All of these guys were Gus/Twill transfers. Also, MAR has been solid when he plays, he’s coming off injuries and just seeming to be healthy lately. And just think, could our Oline possibly be struggling b/c our run game has sucked and our true freshman qb can’t throw further than 5-7 yards? Go figure, the opponent plays to stuff the run and don’t even need to worry about the qb who “ain’t it”. And you actually think a coach’s strategy and play calling doesn’t change after losing a top college qb, top college wr, top 3 rbs, starting center for multiple games? And that’s not even getting to the defense’s key impact player losses. Would LOVE (actually hate) to see Huepel’s offensive 3 and outs with this qb, putting all that pressure on our lack of depth defense and how many blow outs we’d have this year. Gus and Twill have done phenomenal with what they have been dealt, PHENOMENAL. I can’t believe the some of you not understanding this, shows your lack of wherewithal.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Listen, some of this has truth but you are trying to weakly support some sort of weird agenda against Gus to even more strangely support Heupel who ran our team into the ground. TN had nowhere to go but up, and oh my gosh, guess what, he’s beating bad teams with losing records and losing to every good team. Sound familiar, what a shock!

Speaking of transfers…No mention of Big Kat who has been solid? No mention of Barber who is a stud? No mention of Armstrong who has played phenomenal once kept at LB? Bowser, although injured a lot? All of these guys were Gus/Twill transfers. Also, MAR has been solid when he plays, he’s coming off injuries and just seeming to be healthy lately. And just think, could our Oline possibly be struggling b/c our run game has sucked and our true freshman qb can’t throw further than 5-7 yards? Go figure, the opponent plays to stuff the run and don’t even need to worry about the qb who “ain’t it”. And you actually think a coach’s strategy and play calling doesn’t change after losing a top college qb, top college wr, top 3 rbs, starting center for multiple games? And that’s not even getting to the defense’s key impact player losses. Would LOVE (actually hate) to see Huepel’s offensive 3 and outs with this qb, putting all that pressure on our lack of depth defense and how many blow outs we’d have this year. Gus and Twill have done phenomenal with what they have been dealt, PHENOMENAL. I can’t believe the some of you not understanding this, shows your lack of wherewithal.

I just asked what game you think we overachieved in. We are 7-2 in games in which we were favored and 0-2 in games we weren’t with those 2 being decided by halftime and not coming near covering the spread.

 

[U C to the F]

I just asked what game you think we overachieved in. We are 7-2 in games in which we were favored and 0-2 in games we weren’t with those 2 being decided by halftime and not coming near covering the spread.

Again, not true. My response was not about your overachieving post, it was from your post of you on a rant about Huepel doing well at TN (you always ride or die for the turd hippo) and you ended it questioning the current staff’s ability and play calling neglecting to acknowledge the current qb and lack of team talent/depth due to injury and the years of recruiting failures from your favorite hippo coach. And then all throughout the middle you used more bias by questioning the current staff’s transfers they took in, omitting the key impact players they also brought it.

You’re out of touch.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Again, not true. My response was not about your overachieving post, it was from your post of you on a rant about Huepel doing well at TN (you always ride or die for the turd hippo) and you ended it questioning the current staff’s ability and play calling neglecting to acknowledge the current qb and lack of team talent/depth due to injury and the years of recruiting failures from your favorite hippo coach. And then all throughout the middle you used more bias by questioning the current staff’s transfers they took in, omitting the key impact players they also brought it.

You’re out of touch.

Someone asked how Heupel was doing which is why I commented. They were a 3 win team last year. This year he has a top 20 offense and top 50 defense and had half the team transfer before the season. By all accounts he’s doing fine. He has clinched a bowl berth with the 2nd hardest schedule in the country, had his team leading Bama on the road in the 4th and got a road win over a top 20 opponent for the first time in many years. Tenn fans are very happy.

 

[Yaes]

Someone asked how Heupel was doing which is why I commented. They were a 3 win team last year. This year he has a top 20 offense and top 50 defense and had half the team transfer before the season. By all accounts he’s doing fine. He has clinched a bowl berth with the 2nd hardest schedule in the country, had his team leading Bama on the road in the 4th and got a road win over a top 20 opponent for the first time in many years. Tenn fans are very happy.

So are we now saying Heup was not the cause of our troubles last year?

 

[hemightbejeremy]

So are we now saying Heup was not the cause of our troubles last year?

Someone asked how he was doing this year.

 

[KnightLife1]

I predicted 8-4 before the season. But we have failed to cover the game time spread against Boise, Louisville, Navy, ECU, Cincy, Tulane, and SMU. So based on expectations at game time we have underperformed against teams that aren’t FCS caliber teams (or Memphis on a 4th string QB).

If you wanna compare apples to apples, lets compare to 2019 when Heup was coaching with a freshman qb. Lets not forget that in 2019, with a first year quarterback, Heup lost games where we were favored against Cincy, Pitt and Memphis. That same season, we ALSO were heavily favored yet lost to Tulsa that was 4=8 and 2-6 in the AAC. In terms of how we performed when we have been favored, Heup is certainly not the gold standard.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

If you wanna compare apples to apples, lets compare to 2019 when Heup was coaching with a freshman qb. Lets not forget that in 2019, with a first year quarterback, Heup lost games where we were favored against Cincy, Pitt and Memphis. That same season, we ALSO were heavily favored yet lost to Tulsa that was 4=8 and 2-6 in the AAC. In terms of how we performed when we have been favored, Heup is certainly not the gold standard.

Sounds like you could say we underperformed in 2019 as well I guess then. I wasn’t really comparing. More saying that we have underperformed to expectations this year. Heupel has moved on.

 

[SCKnight]

Which game specifically did we overachieve in?

ECU, Memphis. Playing second/third stringers as starters; True freshman QB; no depth at so many positions. Not sure how anyone cannot appreciate how incredibly difficult losing that level of talent on a team like UCF is. We don't have the depth that blue bloods have.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

ECU, Memphis. Playing second/third stringers as starters; True freshman QB; no depth at so many positions. Not sure how anyone cannot appreciate how incredibly difficult losing that level of talent on a team like UCF is. We don't have the depth that blue bloods have.

We were favored in each game. Vs ECU we were double digit favorites and needed a last minute drive to avoid a big upset at home. Vs Memphis we passed for 40 yards but luckily they were playing a 4th string QB who absolutely sucked. And we were again at home and favored.

 

[SCKnight]

We were favored in each game. Vs ECU we were double digit favorites and needed a last minute drive to avoid a big upset at home. Vs Memphis we passed for 40 yards but luckily they were playing a 4th string QB who absolutely sucked. And we were again at home and favored.

So what? We were favored, and Vegas made money. But we were still playing without our top players at almost every position. We had lost to Navy....Navy. We had no business being a double digit favorite in that game. When you have completely alter your game plan because you don't have your play makers and you still win you over achieve. We should probably not even be bowl eligible at this point. So enjoy it...geez

 

[hemightbejeremy]

So what? We were favored, and Vegas made money. But we were still playing without our top players at almost every position. We had lost to Navy....Navy. We had no business being a double digit favorite in that game. When you have completely alter your game plan because you don't have your play makers and you still win you over achieve. We should probably not even be bowl eligible at this point. So enjoy it...geez

We can go round and round on it. We will have been favored in 10 of our 12 games. We have 6 teams on the schedule who are terrible. 7 or 8 wins isn’t an overachievement. When you have Bethune Cookman, UConn, Navy, Tulane, Temple, and usf on the schedule, not being bowl eligible would have been a monumental disaster. Getting bowl eligible is not overachievement.

 

[KnightLife1]

Sounds like you could say we underperformed in 2019 as well I guess then. I wasn’t really comparing. More saying that we have underperformed to expectations this year. Heupel has moved on.

Yes Heup has moved on. So maybe your lengthy discussion of how he's doing now would better be located in a Tennessee chat room.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Yes Heup has moved on. So maybe your lengthy discussion of how he's doing now would better be located in a Tennessee chat room.

Lol. Someone asked how he was doing and now are going to bitch when somebody tells you. Classic.

 

[KnightLife1]

Lol. Someone asked how he was doing and now are going to bitch when somebody tells you. Classic.

Responding in kind to your comments is not bitching. Thinking that only your comments matter, even when they are proven wrong is un American lunacy.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Responding in kind to your comments is not bitching. Thinking that only your comments matter, even when they are proven wrong is un American lunacy.

Not sure what you think I was proven wrong on. Someone asked how Heupel was doing. I responded to that. And now you are upset about it. Or did I miss something?

 

[BlakNGoldAllDay]

Randy Shannon shoulders most of the blame. If Heupel could pick his own DC, I’d fault him. He didn’t.

 

[Gwoz]

Many of the same people that think Heupel is the worst coach ever, thought he was going to bring undefeated seasons on the regular after 2018. Then some lost faith after 2019 and more did so in 2020. Only after he left everyone piled on that bandwagon. In comes Malzahn and back to the best coach ever, and similar to a 2019 season fans are starting to see cracks. Regardless of injuries the team was losing to Cincinnati and SMU was a toss up. Malzahn still has to close out strong to not cause more to start questioning. 2022 could be a repeat 2020. Malzahn right now is riding perception of where the team is heading, much like Heupel after 2018. Until he actually delivers a conference championship, he's not better than the three previous coaches that did.

 

[SCKnight]

We can go round and round on it. We will have been favored in 10 of our 12 games. We have 6 teams on the schedule who are terrible. 7 or 8 wins isn’t an overachievement. When you have Bethune Cookman, UConn, Navy, Tulane, Temple, and usf on the schedule, not being bowl eligible would have been a monumental disaster. Getting bowl eligible is not overachievement.

You keep going around. I just state the facts as I see them. We were not ever going to be that good this year, and then losing pretty much our top players....reality.... enjoy the fact that we are bowl eligible. It is a blessing

 

[hemightbejeremy]

You keep going around. I just state the facts as I see them. We were not ever going to be that good this year, and then losing pretty much our top players....reality.... enjoy the fact that we are bowl eligible. It is a blessing

Cool. As I stated we underperformed the betting line against all non FCS caliber teams. At best we are meeting expectations. Someone said we are lucky to be bowl eligible and have exceeded expectations. Given how weak the schedule is I can’t see how that’s true. But you are free to disagree.

 

[KnightVision82]

Heupel is actually doing pretty well. Exceeded all expectations there for the year. Are you concerned at all that Gus hand picked Gatewood (he was the top Auburn overall recruit in 2018) and he couldn’t beat out a true freshman 🦛 player? Craig Myers is the highest rated Auburn recruit over the past 5 years and not sure if he even has a catch. MAR was the top 2019 RB in the Auburn class and top 3 overall and he was like a 5th string to start the year here out of spring ball. Is the answer that these players along with the most experienced O line in the conference returning all 5 starters (3 of whom were all conference selections last year) just suddenly have no talent? Or is there some limiting factor in an offensive scheme where a QB throws the ball 30 times and only 4 of them go beyond 10 yards from the line of scrimmage?

1. Heupel can't recruit.
2. I like the current recruits on the list for 2022.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

1. Heupel can't recruit.
2. I like the current recruits on the list for 2022.

Agreed on both counts

 

[mattropolis]

8-4 or 7-5 is the worst we should be in the AAC, even with depleted talent and depth. Other than 2015, this season has had the most distractions: new coach, new offense, new defense, lots of new one-year players, lots of injuries (including star QB).

This is exactly what I expected given the circumstances. Even with everybody healthy you could see the talent level and depth this season was going to be off, not to mention a new staff running new systems. I thought under those circumstances a great season would be 9-10 wins (after bowls). That would be a good season (9-10 wins). Very Good would be 11-12 wins and elite is 13 wins or better. I thought Loserville was a toss-up going into the year but definitely wasn’t expecting to lose to Navy. The losses @Cincy and @SMU were expected on my paper.

At this point the past doesn’t matter. Gus’s staff has recruited well on paper. We just have to see if that level of recruiting or better continues, and if that talent gets developed into W’s on the field.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

8-4 or 7-5 is the worst we should be in the AAC, even with depleted talent and depth. Other than 2015, this season has had the most distractions: new coach, new offense, new defense, lots of new one-year players, lots of injuries (including star QB).

This is exactly what I expected given the circumstances. Even with everybody healthy you could see the talent level and depth this season was going to be off, not to mention a new staff running new systems. I thought under those circumstances a great season would be 9-10 wins (after bowls). That would be a good season (9-10 wins). Very Good would be 11-12 wins and elite is 13 wins or better. I thought Loserville was a toss-up going into the year but definitely wasn’t expecting to lose to Navy. The losses @Cincy and @SMU were expected on my paper.

At this point the past doesn’t matter. Gus’s staff has recruited well on paper. We just have to see if that level of recruiting or better continues, and if that talent gets developed into W’s on the field.

Yeah I had us at 8-4 before the year. Figured we’d slip vs either Boise or Louisville and go 5-3 in conference. But I figured we’d lose to a team like Memphis rather than Navy. Given how terrible the conference turned out to be outside of 3 teams and how we have looked in games particularly against the top of the conference it’s just hard for me to think of this as some sort of overachievement. Still a good solid year and foundation for next year.

 

[BlakNGoldAllDay]

1. Heupel can't recruit.
2. I like the current recruits on the list for 2022.

If I go back to his 3 recruiting classes on here, will I see everyone saying the recruits suck? I have yet to see a class where most people said they sucked when they signed.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

If I go back to his 3 recruiting classes on here, will I see everyone saying the recruits suck? I have yet to see a class where most people said they sucked when they signed.

The 2018 class did suck. 2019 was good. 2020 and 2021 results TBD.

 

[EddieUCF2011]

The 2018 class did suck. 2019 was good. 2020 and 2021 results TBD.

Yeah I think what hurt the most this year is you expect your 2018 class of seniors to be the leaders and some of your best players for the 2021 season and that's generally not been the case.

 

[KnightVision82]

I look at senior day videos on twitter and very few starters leaving. What recruiting class was that?

 

[hemightbejeremy]

I look at senior day videos on twitter and very few starters leaving. What recruiting class was that?

True seniors are class of 2018. 5th year seniors like KD are 2017.

 

[BlakNGoldAllDay]

The 2018 class did suck. 2019 was good. 2020 and 2021 results TBD.

Was everyone on signing day saying they suck or just playing the results?

 

[BlakNGoldAllDay]

Heups first class happened 11 days after he signed. If we are giving Gus a pass for this past class we have to give Heupel a pass for his. The following class was pretty good. No one complained on the thread.
Thread '2018 Early National Signing Day'
https://ucf.forums.rivals.com/threads/2018-early-national-signing-day.71331/

 

[hendu1976fl]

I don’t think it was unrealistic to be competitive with SMU given the spread was under a touchdown and their coach was on the way out. They have lost 3 of 4. Not saying we should ha e won, but at least been competitive where we had some hope we could pull it out into the second half. Also not unrealistic to think we should have played better vs Navy, ECU, and Tulane when we were favored by multiple touchdowns entering those games and trailed near the very end of all of them.

Why were we favored by whatever? Do the people who make the lines hang out in the locker room? Do they know what is going on? They don't. "The experts" get things right less than 60% of the time. They prop up their wins, but don't mention their losses. Did you really believe we stood a chance against SMU. I think I posted on the score prediction thread SMU 41-14, and maybe we could get a cheapy late.

I usually agree with a lot of what you have to say, but on this point we are going to have to agree to disagree. I think what Gus realized was that unless the other team was awful on D, we were not going to generate a whole lot on offense. So he revisited the GOL playbook/philosophy. Win with D. Try to run the ball in an attempt to shorten the game and take as much pressure off your freshman QB as possible. But with injuries at the WR and OL position, that was more difficult. Also, dropped passes don't help either. As a guy who called plays at a much lower level, I was impressed with the way he found ways to move the football. That being said, with my work schedule, I probably only watched 5-6 games this year.

What I find disappointing about this season, this may have been one of the best D's we have fielded in a long time, and I think after the Louisville game it went to waist.

One other point of contention I have is that somebody mentioned anybody could have coached this team to victories over Temple and a few others. What about getting whipped by a 3 win Tulsa team a few years ago. If Heup couldn't beat Tulsa, how was he going to beat Okie Light?

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Why were we favored by whatever? Do the people who make the lines hang out in the locker room? Do they know what is going on? They don't. "The experts" get things right less than 60% of the time. They prop up their wins, but don't mention their losses. Did you really believe we stood a chance against SMU. I think I posted on the score prediction thread SMU 41-14, and maybe we could get a cheapy late.

I usually agree with a lot of what you have to say, but on this point we are going to have to agree to disagree. I think what Gus realized was that unless the other team was awful on D, we were not going to generate a whole lot on offense. So he revisited the GOL playbook/philosophy. Win with D. Try to run the ball in an attempt to shorten the game and take as much pressure off your freshman QB as possible. But with injuries at the WR and OL position, that was more difficult. Also, dropped passes don't help either. As a guy who called plays at a much lower level, I was impressed with the way he found ways to move the football. That being said, with my work schedule, I probably only watched 5-6 games this year.

What I find disappointing about this season, this may have been one of the best D's we have fielded in a long time, and I think after the Louisville game it went to waist.

One other point of contention I have is that somebody mentioned anybody could have coached this team to victories over Temple and a few others. What about getting whipped by a 3 win Tulsa team a few years ago. If Heup couldn't beat Tulsa, how was he going to beat Okie Light?

Tulsa had 4 wins in 2019 (more than half our opponents this year). But per Sagarin were rated relatively well. The played a gauntlet schedule. Lost out of conference to Michigan state and Oklahoma state, lost in 3 OT to ranked SMU. Lost by 9 to ranked Cincy. Missed a chip shot GW field goal against Memphis (who won the conference), etc. Not really comparable to Temple or UConn teams this year who are routinely losing by 40 points on a weekly basis.

 

[mattropolis]

Heups first class happened 11 days after he signed. If we are giving Gus a pass for this past class we have to give Heupel a pass for his. The following class was pretty good. No one complained on the thread.
Thread '2018 Early National Signing Day'
https://ucf.forums.rivals.com/threads/2018-early-national-signing-day.71331/

He gets a pass in my book. Most of the 2018 kids were Frost’s last recruits and they all already knew Frost was gone. It still turned out to be a pretty terrible class. There are only 2-3 guys that meaningfully contributed and no “hits” at all from that class.

 

[KnightVision82]

True seniors are class of 2018. 5th year seniors like KD are 2017.

I guess I should have looked further but by last season I believe we emptied out a lot of players who had early NFL aspirations and were leftovers from successful 2017 / 2018 seasons. We sure could have used Thompson and Anderson at the RB position.