Infrastructure Spending: Who are the true Conservatives?

[DaShuckster]

Congressional Republicans made it crystal clear yesterday that their red line on a Biden-backed, infrastructure spending bill is raising taxes for the wealthiest Americans back to the levels they were in 2016 before the Trump tax cut.

So the question of the day becomes: Is this a CONSERVATIVE position?

I always thought being a fiscal conservative meant PAYING for our spending instead of going deeper in debt like we did with our Middle East war spending and the Trump tax cut.

Who are the true Conservatives here?

 

[Crazyhole]

Congressional Republicans made it crystal clear yesterday that their red line on a Biden-backed, infrastructure spending bill is raising taxes for the wealthiest Americans back to the levels they were in 2016 before the Trump tax cut.

So the question of the day becomes: Is this a CONSERVATIVE position?

I always thought being a fiscal conservative meant PAYING for our spending instead of going deeper in debt like we did with our Middle East war spending and the Trump tax cut.

Who are the true Conservatives here?

I'm good with 20 billion in infrastructure spending being offset by 20 billion in tax increases. I'd probably go as high as 40 billion.

 

[DaShuckster]

I'm good with 20 billion in infrastructure spending being offset by 20 billion in tax increases. I'd probably go as high as 40 billion.

The point is: Republicans in Congress have made it clear THEY are opposed to ANY tax increases.

While many Republicans -- particularly Republican Governors and Mayors -- appreciate the dire need to address our crumbling infrastructure, the word on Capitol Hill is that they are unwilling to pay for it.

So I guess the "Conservative" stance is to go deeper in debt.

 

[Crazyhole]

The point is: Republicans in Congress have made it clear they are opposed to ANY tax increases.

While many Republicans -- particularly Republican Governors and Mayors -- appreciate the dire need to address our crumbling infrastructure, the word on Capitol Hill is that they are unwilling to pay for it.

So I guess the "Conservative" stance is to go deeper in debt.

You still don't get it. There is no way to pay for it. Raise taxes on the rich and YOU will lose most of your retirement account value. Raise interest rates and all of the taxes we collect will go towards debt service. Print more money and the value of it collapses even more.

There is no way to do this without cutting our own throats. An individual in this position would be left with 2 options: bankruptcy or sell off assets. Neither are options for the federal government.

 

[DaShuckster]

You still don't get it. There is no way to pay for it. Raise taxes on the rich and YOU will lose most of your retirement account value. Raise interest rates and all of the taxes we collect will go towards debt service. Print more money and the value of it collapses even more.

There is no way to do this without cutting our own throats. An individual in this position would be left with 2 options: bankruptcy or sell off assets. Neither are options for the federal government.

So the Conservative option is to....do nothing. Okay, got it.

 

[OLearyLastCall]

Eisenhower would be called a Marxist today.

 

[Crazyhole]

So the Conservative option is to....do nothing. Okay, got it.

As I said, you don't get it. This isn't a liberal or conservative issue anymore, it's a matter of how much you personally are willing to give up for the beloved infrastructure spending.

 

[Crazyhole]

Eisenhower would be called a Marxist today.

Bullcrap. Eisenhower was a keynesian conservative.

 

[DaShuckster]

The reality is that fiscal conservatism mean diddily-squat to today's Republican Party.

For all the whining about 'those free-spending libs,' the cold, hard truth of the matter is that more federal money has been spent on Republican Administration fiascos than anything the Democrats have done in recent history.

 

[Crazyhole]

The reality is that fiscal conservatism mean diddily-squat to today's Republican Party.

For all the whining about 'those free-spending libs,' the cold, hard truth of the matter is that more federal money has been spent on Republican Administration fiascos than anything the Democrats have done in recent history.

Well at least now you're being honest about why you started this thread. You just wanted to bitch about Republicans.

 

[DaShuckster]

Well at least now you're being honest about why you started this thread. You just wanted to bitch about Republicans.

What? I didn't make that clear enough for you in my OP?

Honestly, I much prefer bitching about Republicans to debating whether I live next door to a peaceful white supremacist or a violent transgender.

 

[Crazyhole]

What? I didn't make that clear enough for you in my OP?

Honestly, I much prefer bitching about Republicans to debating whether I live next door to a peaceful white supremacist or a violent transgender.

It's all good. I hope democrats get everything they want without a single republican vote. If it works, great! If not, you guys can own it.

 

[Cubs79]

It's all good. I hope democrats get everything they want without a single republican vote. If it works, great! If not, you guys can own it.

Don't worry, Republicans will certainly try to take credit for it if it works. Just like there were several Republicans tweeting about how helpful the American Rescue act was going to be, while conveniently leaving out the detail that they didn't vote for it.

 

[Crazyhole]

Don't worry, Republicans will certainly try to take credit for it if it works. Just like there were several Republicans tweeting about how helpful the American Rescue act was going to be, while conveniently leaving out the detail that they didn't vote for it.

Well you picked up on their hypocrisy, so I'm sure most people did as well.

 

[Crazyhole]

How about raising taxes on the 51% that pay no taxes. How about stop pissing away tax money?

Yep. 35% across the board flat rate for income and 90% for capital gains, which includes inheritance. The poor pay their share, and the rich pay their share.

 

[Crazyhole]

We should have a 5 year plan to eliminate all of our public debt. No new spending, period. Extreme austerity measures. Heavy taxation, and all value added goods should be put into export markets for whatever we can get out of them. People can survive on green beans, pork products, and wheat while we get this thing back to zero. No more convenience pharmaceuticals either. High blood pressure? Go for a jog every night.

This boomer mentality of kicking the can down the road so somebody else can deal with it has to end before its too late.

 

[Crazyhole]

To go even further, we need a major exegesis of the constitution and all of the amendments to determine how and why it only took 250 years for the system to implode. Something went wrong and we need to fix it.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Regular reminder that the list time we had a balanced federal budget was under Clinton

 

[goodknightfl]

There is no paying for the Green or Infrastructure bills. Raising taxes barely touches either bill. We just spent 2.5 Trillion that we don't have and are looking to tack another 5 trillion to it. Inflation is taking off, if interest rates simply go up to 4% and they really need to go up to 2x that to slow inflation down, Feds are screwed, 2/3 of the total budget will go to interest. There was no reason for the last 2 stimulus deals.. They were horrid waste of public money.

 

[goodknightfl]

Regular reminder that the list time we had a balanced federal budget was under Clinton

yep, along with Republican Senate and House. A big part of that surplus was the Government bought tons of houses under Reagan, after the savings n loans crashed under Jimmy Carter. The Government sold those houses during the Clinton years.

 

[chemmie]

That was one year in the dot com boom.

LOL.

Then came Republicans.

Then it came closer to being balanced again under Obama.

Then came Republicans.

 

[chemmie]

How about raising taxes on the 51% that pay no taxes. How about stop pissing away tax money?

The only wage growth these people have seen in over 40 years has been their tax cuts.

The only solution to the shitstain of American Capitalism we've created is a major kick in the balls. Jack up taxes on the wealthy, jack up wages, force more paid benefits or have the government provide them, then watch everything burn for a few years until everyone realizes that we're totally cool without a ruling-class hoarding everything.

 

[Crazyhole]

The only wage growth these people have seen in over 40 years has been their tax cuts.

The only solution to the shitstain of American Capitalism we've created is a major kick in the balls. Jack up taxes on the wealthy, jack up wages, force more paid benefits or have the government provide them, then watch everything burn for a few years until everyone realizes that we're totally cool without a ruling-class hoarding everything.

That's still a catch-22 though. We need to get to a positive trade balance and can't do that if we make everything more expensive.

 

[chemmie]

That's still a catch-22 though. We need to get to a positive trade balance and can't do that if we make everything more expensive.

Sooooooo...
what you're saying is the Federal Reserve needs to start taking back some of the money they've been throwing around for the last 20 years?

 

[Crazyhole]

Sooooooo...
what you're saying is the Federal Reserve needs to start taking back some of the money they've been throwing around for the last 20 years?

Unfortunately, they can't. All they can do at this point is shut off lending to the US government and impose austerity.

 

[Crazyhole]

At the very least, we need to cut the debt in half over the next 10 years. That means we need to raise revenue by 2.5-3 trillion per year and do nothing but pay off debt with it. If we can get down to 15 trillion by 2030, we might be in a position where we can start looking at raising interest rates and start to chip away at healthcare and social security. We should also probably look at selling off some of the federal land out west.

 

[Crazyhole]

Require 30% of all investment portfolios be put into 10 year 1.5% TIPS.

 

[Crazyhole]

Why do liberals never want to talk about the debt? Do they not realize that if we don't address the issue willingly, it's going to be forced upon us? I realize that it's an uncomfortable issue because deep down they know that it's going to have to affect their own personal lives, but the longer this goes on the worse its going to get when it comes time to pay the piper.

 

[DaShuckster]

Why do liberals never want to talk about the debt? Do they not realize that if we don't address the issue willingly, it's going to be forced upon us? I realize that it's an uncomfortable issue because deep down they know that it's going to have to affect their own personal lives, but the longer this goes on the worse its going to get when it comes time to pay the piper.

You act like this is a "liberal thing." 'Conservatives' have done more to increase the federal debt than those wild-eyed, free-spending Democrats have.

 

[Crazyhole]

You act like this is a "liberal thing." 'Conservatives' have done more to increase the federal debt than those wild-eyed, free-spending Democrats have.

Would you like to discuss how to pay off the national debt?

 

[DaShuckster]

Would you like to discuss how to pay off the national debt?

You've seen enough of my posts over the years to know I've been concerned with our national debt for a very long time now.

The first step in the right direction would be for the President and Congress to operate with a balanced federal budget each year.

 

[Crazyhole]

You've seen enough of my posts over the years to know I've been concerned with our national debt for a very long time now.

The first step in the right direction would be for the President and Congress to operate with a balanced federal budget each year.

No, I really haven't seen any of your posts over the years talking about how we need to address the debt. You talk about how you want to tax rich people to pay for new spending but I can't recall you ever saying anything about reducing the debt. Here's your opportunity though: how would you propose we start chipping away at the debt?

 

[goodknightfl]

You've seen enough of my posts over the years to know I've been concerned with our national debt for a very long time now.

The first step in the right direction would be for the President and Congress to operate with a balanced federal budget each year.

I agree, lets start by not spending 4 trillion for green new deal and infrastructure. And no more Covid stimulus packages that 25% of go to American citizens.

 

[DaShuckster]

I agree, lets start by not spending 4 trillion for green new deal and infrastructure.

You‘re saying we don’t need to do something about our crumbling infrastructure? (FYI, the Biden proposal calls for 2 trillion in spending.)

The only difference between Democrat spending and Republican spending is that the Dems want to pay for infrastructure improvements up front. Those fiscal conservatives in the GOP spent 6.4 trillion on our Middle East wars without ‘inconveniencing‘ the American People by having to pay for it at the time.

But let me guess, THAT deficit spending was a-okay, right guys?

 

[chemmie]

Would you like to discuss how to pay off the national debt?

Stop electing Republicans.

 

[goodknightfl]

You‘re saying we don’t need to do something about our crumbling infrastructure? (FYI, the Biden proposal calls for 2 trillion in spending.)

The only difference between Democrat spending and Republican spending is that the Dems want to pay for infrastructure improvements up front. Those fiscal conservatives in the GOP spent 6.4 trillion on our Middle East wars without ‘inconveniencing‘ the American People by having to pay for it at the time.

But let me guess, THAT deficit spending was a-okay, right guys?

I want us out of the middle east just like Trump did. That is why I am for energy independence. I am ok with targeted spending on Road, bridges, ect. But that is not what this 2 Trillion is going to do. If Electric cars are the future, charging stations will be built without the government building them.

 

[DaShuckster]

I want us out of the middle east just like Trump did. That is why I am for energy independence.

Which means you're in favor of subsidizing Big Oil.

But somehow building charging stations for electric cars is different??!?

 

[DaShuckster]

Why can't we let the market phase out combustion engines?

Yet in the same breath, you'll argue with me about continuing to subsidize Big Oil.

 

[Crazyhole]

Yet in the same breath, you'll argue with me about continuing to subsidize Big Oil.

You really don't know what the term "subsidy" means, do you?

 

[Crazyhole]

You know oil is probably the most taxed item from the discovery to delivery?

Whats funny to me is that those "subsidies" that he's so upset about is just depreciating the value of lease agreements as reserves on that land decrease. It probably works out to be a net-loss to oil producers quite honestly.