Is CFB the P2 now?

[DaShuckster]

Rather than take the Bulls thread OT, I'll continue the conversation here:

Not sure how the BIG10 gets P2 status. That conference is really 2 teams. Am I crazy?

For real. They have the big tv dollars only because of alumni and ratings. That shouldn’t define best teams, because they aren’t, not by a long shot.

um....if I'm not mistaken the National Championship Game features two Big Ten teams---and one of them is not named Ohio State.

Then add Oregon, USC, Penn State, Nebraska, and Wisconsin to the mix. Only the SEC can make any claim to matching it.

 

[UCFootball14]

Shut your mouth you jabroni…

 

[PositYourself]

TCU

 

[Poolside Knight]

Why are fans in those two leagues trying to get other fanbases to throw in the towel? It comes off
elitist

If money was the only factor in success Texas would have the most National Championships.

 

[DrPhillipsKnight]

You know he’s trolling when he mentions Nebraska

 

[Happy Hands]

You can’t really call a game a championship if teams don’t play their way into it. Well, you can’t call it a “National” championship. It’s the championship of a four team tournament. UGA is probably the best team in the country and they were excluded for losing by three after back to back tournament championships.

Regardless, the P2 sentiment isn’t wrong. I’m guessing the selections for the tournament were done to give the idea of parity, but in the long run it will only benefit the two conferences with the largest TV deals.

The spirit of college football has been dead for a long time. Schools are still trying to use their history to engage fans, but how much longer are Penn State fans going to chant “We are…Penn State” when half of the starters are sitting out of bowl games to transfer for more money?

Sorry this is more of a ramble than a coherent post.

 

[Happy Hands]

You know he’s trolling when he mentions Nebraska

I think he is talking about volleyball.

 

[Shark19]

As it currently stands, it is strictly an invitational…..matchups media companies make behind closed doors.

They don’t want a system with any objectivity like the BCS had.

Next year, there is some objectivity put back in with guaranteed spots for 6 conference championships (well there will be subjectivity in conferences 5 and 6) plus media companies using at large spots for matchups they want to profit from with no more thought given to which are better teams.

 

[Gwoz]

Why are fans in those two leagues trying to get other fanbases to throw in the towel? It comes off
elitist

If money was the only factor in success Texas would have the most National Championships.

UCF used to fight endlessly to have more than P5 included in the Big picture, and now is excitedly rooting for demise of each conference with hope of B12 being the P3. Not really any different than the other two conferences being P2.

There has been way too much conclusion between conferences, TV networks, and prominent schools the last several years to not have an end game.

 

[Guinness_Knight]

Rather than take the Bulls thread OT, I'll continue the conversation here:



um....if I'm not mistaken the National Championship Game features two Big Ten teams---and one of them is not named Ohio State.

Then add Oregon, USC, Penn State, Nebraska, and Wisconsin to the mix. Only the SEC can make any claim to matching it.

Washington isn’t in the BIG10 yet. Michigan and OSu are the only 2 teams that make any noise in that conference. They’re typically propped up and given ESPN booster points in the polls too 😎

 

[Gwoz]

Washington isn’t in the BIG10 yet. Michigan and OSu are the only 2 teams that make any noise in that conference. They’re typically propped up and given ESPN booster points in the polls too 😎

On occasion other programs have made noise like Michigan State, Penn State, Wisconsin.

B12, was quite similar it was Oklahoma and Texas historically. With Oklahoma State, Kansas State, TCU making noise, but not with any consistency to say they are a prominent program.

Still Michigan and Ohio State is a staple, and from a financial standpoint is beneficial to keep them as good and relevant as possible. Along with west coast teams.

 

[Black_Knight07]

Shut your mouth you jabroni…

Man snuck Nebraska in there like we wouldn't notice.

 

[Guinness_Knight]

On occasion other programs have made noise like Michigan State, Penn State, Wisconsin.

B12, was quite similar it was Oklahoma and Texas historically. With Oklahoma State, Kansas State, TCU making noise, but not with any consistency to say they are a prominent program.

Still Michigan and Ohio State is a staple, and from a financial standpoint is beneficial to keep them as good and relevant as possible. Along with west coast teams.

Agreed and why the entire “P2” is ridiculous IMHO. Again, the narrative get driven by nonsense vs reality.

 

[Poolside Knight]

UCF used to fight endlessly to have more than P5 included in the Big picture, and now is excitedly rooting for demise of each conference with hope of B12 being the P3. Not really any different than the other two conferences being P2.

There has been way too much conclusion between conferences, TV networks, and prominent schools the last several years to not have an end game.

I have said this before but if they tried Government would get involved and it would be Bipartisan. You can’t ‘leave behind’ that many Public Universities

 

[Gwoz]

Agreed and why the entire “P2” is ridiculous IMHO. Again, the narrative get driven by nonsense vs reality.

They bolster by picking up top west programs, and likely will pick up a few top programs from ACC.

The question to ask is, if Big Ten or SEC offered UCF or any other program in B12/ACC to join would they decline? Would any of the teams in Big Ten or SEC leave to join B12/ACC.

Financially there is a disparity, and it will grow.

 

[Gwoz]

I have said this before but if they tried Government would get involved and it would be Bipartisan. You can’t ‘leave behind’ that many Public Universities

I don't think there isn't anything that can't be bought. Public Universities haven't been on equal footing for decades.

There is billions on the table, and we watched PAC12 literally crumble in a matter of days and no one blinked an eye.

 

[DaShuckster]

There has been way too much conclusion between conferences, TV networks, and prominent schools the last several years to not have an end game.

True. It won't be a P2 much longer.

The end game is an NFL-style Tier One with an American league-like conference with separate divisions (the SEC) and a National-league like conference (the Big Ten) with separate divisions with an NFL-style playoff system. The member schools will be the only ones benefiting from the massive playoff money it generates.

Why are fans in those two leagues trying to get other fanbases to throw in the towel? It comes off
elitist.

Fans of the two conferences have nothing to do with it. It's simply paying attention to what's happening. The latest conference changes make NO sense from a TV-revenue sharing perspective if there wasn't a game plan for a brand-new CFB top tier structure that includes a new revenue stream from TV playoffs.

Is it elitist? I would call it Capitalism. Baseball has its Major Leagues and minor leagues for a reason. Same with the NFL and the upstart leagues, same as English soccer with its Premier League and all the lower tiers. It doesn't mean teams outside the Big Ten and SEC can't still compete anymore. It only means they'll be in their own tier with other teams in similar situations.

 

[Poolside Knight]

True. It won't be a P2 much longer.

The end game is an NFL-style Tier One with an American league-like conference with separate divisions (the SEC) and a National-league like conference (the Big Ten) with separate divisions with an NFL-like playoff system. The member schools will be the only ones benefiting from the massive playoff money it generates.

Fans of the two conferences have nothing to do with it. It's simply paying attention to what's happening. The latest conference changes make NO sense from a TV-revenue sharing perspective if there wasn't a game plan for new model that includes a new revenue stream from TV playoffs.

Is it elitist? I would call it Capitalism. Baseball has its Major Leagues and minor leagues for a reason. Same with the NFL and the upstart leagues, same as English soccer with its Premier League and all the lower tiers. It doesn't mean teams outside the Big Ten and SEC can't still compete anymore. It only means they'll be in their own tier with other teams in similar situations.

Europe flirted w a Super League and the fans protested . It didn’t happen

 

[BlakNGoldAllDay]

Nebraska fans sound way too similar to USF fans. Nebraska is actually in the club but they act like they are the reason for the club. Haven’t won anything since Big 10.

 

[UCFSig]

True. It won't be a P2 much longer.

The end game is an NFL-style Tier One with an American league-like conference with separate divisions (the SEC) and a National-league like conference (the Big Ten) with separate divisions with an NFL-style playoff system. The member schools will be the only ones benefiting from the massive playoff money it generates.

Fans of the two conferences have nothing to do with it. It's simply paying attention to what's happening. The latest conference changes make NO sense from a TV-revenue sharing perspective if there wasn't a game plan for a brand-new CFB top tier structure that includes a new revenue stream from TV playoffs.

Is it elitist? I would call it Capitalism. Baseball has its Major Leagues and minor leagues for a reason. Same with the NFL and the upstart leagues, same as English soccer with its Premier League and all the lower tiers. It doesn't mean teams outside the Big Ten and SEC can't still compete anymore. It only means they'll be in their own tier with other teams in similar situations.

Capitalism, hmm okay. Let me stir the pot. That specious argument compares for-profit organizations with publicly funded organizations whos purpose for existing is to provide a public good (education) - not provide a return to shareholders. School leaders have lost their way. It's not their job to run a minor league for anyone. The comparison is apples and oranges.

What if hospitals left their lane and decided it was more profitable to harvest and sell body parts than to save lives? No problem, that's Capitalism. What if defense contractors began sowing the seeds of war. Isn't that good for business? That's Capitalism too.

This whole notion of universities creating a minor league, subsidized by tax payers, is so inherently flawed its astounding. We've accepted it to this point because it's so entertaining but a break way in the name of Capitalism is a step too far.

 

[Gwoz]

What if hospitals left their lane and decided it was more profitable to harvest and sell body parts than to save lives? No problem, that's Capitalism. What if defense contractors began sowing the seeds of war. Isn't that good for business? That's Capitalism too.

Actually the Government had stepped in and restructure reimbursement payments to Hospitals based on reduction of readmission and LOS. Previously, it was advantageous for hospitals to have more sick patients.

I'm not even going to touch defense contractors and war, I think there is enough history on that.

That being said I don't see how college football is anywhere on the same level. The notion of it being a step too far now, may be a big deal for certain alumni bases that are invested in their football programs. A few hundred thousand to a couple million fans. Plenty of UCF alumni wouldn't even notice either. The other 300 million people in this country could care less.

 

[goodknightfl]

Wa is not a Big team yet. Sorry they didn't build this team in BIG 10. Are we headed toward a P2 yes, but I don;t think we will ever really get there,

 

[Gwoz]

Wa is not a Big team yet. Sorry they didn't build this team in BIG 10. Are we headed toward a P2 yes, but I don;t think we will ever really get there,

Which is a little funny. Prior to PAC12 collapse, the narrative was the PAC12 is not at all competitive, they are a forgotten conference. The fact that no one tried to stop that conference from collapsing, and most of the country rooting for it, leads me to believe no one sheds a tear if college football continues to get consolidated.

 

[DaShuckster]

Capitalism, hmm okay. Let me stir the pot. That specious argument compares for-profit organizations with publicly funded organizations whos purpose for existing is to provide a public good (education)

Capitalism in college football is a specious argument?

Tell me, where did I misread the tea leaves?

This whole notion of universities creating a minor league, subsidized by tax payers, is so inherently flawed its astounding. We've accepted it to this point because it's so entertaining but a break way in the name of Capitalism is a step too far.

Let's review: ...Multimillion dollar TV contracts ...Entire networks for college athletic conferences ...Rockstar salaries for college football coaches ...plus NIL and the 'free agent, "show me the money" Transfer Portal for top players. But a select league of the premeir programs competing for their own conference and national championships is..... "a step too far"??!?

Nebraska fans sound way too similar to USF fans. Nebraska is actually in the club but they act like they are the reason for the club. Haven’t won anything since Big 10.

You don't like the message so you attack the messenger? I've been a staunch UCF fan for over seven years now. Am I a Husker fan too? Yeah---so what? I would be the first to agree with you that Nebraska hasn't done diddily-squat since joining the Big Ten. But you don't keep a CFB blueblood down forever. Keep an eye on the Huskers this year.

 

[BlakNGoldAllDay]

Capitalism in college football is a specious argument?

Tell me, where did I misread the tea leaves?

Let's review: ...Multimillion dollar TV contracts ...Entire networks for college athletic conferences ...Rockstar salaries for college football coaches ...plus NIL and the 'free agent, "show me the money" Transfer Portal for top players. But a select league of the premeir programs competing for their own conference and national championships is..... "a step too far"??!?

You don't like the message so you attack the messenger? I've been a staunch UCF fan for over seven years now. Am I a Husker fan too? Yeah---so what? I would be the first to agree with you that Nebraska hasn't done diddily-squat since joining the Big Ten. But you don't keep a CFB blueblood down forever. Keep an eye on the Huskers this year.

No not the messenger. The entire fan base. I’m in wait and see mode right now. But you are a mix of USF and Miami now. Walk around arrogant without accomplishing anything since early 2000s and the obligatory, We are Back , now. Nebraska and Miami could be good next year. Haven’t proven anything in a while though. Wisconsin still has a better chance to be top 4 in B1G IMO.

 

[Poolside Knight]

Purdue and Illinois are in the ‘Power 2’ ..who would you bet on to win a National Championship in the next decade one of them or UCF?

some of our own fans don’t believe in our ceiling but with the right coach and QB I do.

There was an anonymous recruit survey w The Athletic talking about the best visits and UCF was brought up along w Michigan. We have an attractive location for top players and with the right coach we can make a run in the 12 team format. I don’t think Gus is the guy to do it though

 

[muckdawg24]

No, he's not, but he'll get us into the conference and settled in and then the next coach can help move us along.

 

[Gwoz]

Purdue and Illinois are in the ‘Power 2’ ..who would you bet on to win a National Championship in the next decade one of them or UCF?

some of our own fans don’t believe in our ceiling but with the right coach and QB I do.

There was an anonymous recruit survey w The Athletic talking about the best visits and UCF was brought up along w Michigan. We have an attractive location for top players and with the right coach we can make a run in the 12 team format. I don’t think Gus is the guy to do it though

Ideally there is a tier system where teams go and up down based on performance. It would actually put value to every season/game, a team can't just fire staff, call it a year and regroup.

The point being made is that every decision being made the last few years has gone further and further away from what people perceive as college football. The ones on this inside of course are rooting for it, if tomorrow they said they will go with 3 super conferences with B12 being 1 of them, everyone on here would be high fiving.

The biggest obstacle for UCF is being in a saturated area of the country for college football. Could a state like Utah or Kansas complain if they get shut out, sure. Does Florida complain if they have UF and FSU included, possibly Miami. Probably not.

 

[DaShuckster]

... you are a mix of USF and Miami now. Walk around arrogant without accomplishing anything since early 2000s ...

Arrogance? All I've done is point out the obvious in terms of the restructuring of CFB. It's only a matter of time before the big two football conferences break away from the NCAA. I can understand why you guys don't want to believe it, but the writing is on the wall.

We are moving towards a 40-ish "top tier" college football league, sans the NCAA. Like it or not, it will be composed of the Big Ten, the SEC, Notre Dame, and a few more football schools yet to be determined.

If you are non-believers, here are a few questions to ask yourselves:

• If the gameplan was always 3 super-conferences, why did OU and Texas split for the SEC?
• Why would the Big Ten pick up USC, UCLA, Washington and Oregon when --- if everything revenue-wise stayed the same --- would mean all member schools would LOSE MONEY from their regular season TV deals?
• Where's the new big money for CFB coming from? (Hint: a 12-team playoff)
• Why would Florida State be doing everything possible to somehow escape the ACC?
• Why hasn't Notre Dame already locked up a new TV deal by now. FYI, 2024 is the last year of their current TV contract with NBC.
• Why has the historically conservative NCAA suddenly come out and announced they will consider a new top tier for college football? (This is the proverbial shutting the barn door after the cattle have already gotten out.)

 

[PositYourself]

I don't have the strength to rebut all of the things you've mentioned, but I've had my ear to expansion/TV contracts for over 2 years, listening to 365 Sports etc religiously, and all I can say is that you don't know everything.

IMO, if UCF has the ability and will to pony up the NIL $/big boy club entrance fee they're tossing around, we will be relevant and ok.

 

[DaShuckster]

I don't have the strength to rebut all of the things you've mentioned, but I've had my ear to expansion/TV contracts for over 2 years, listening to 365 Sports etc religiously, and all I can say is that you don't know everything.

I don't claim to know everything. I'm just connecting the dots. It won't be too long before we see whether I'm right, partially right or dead wrong.

 

[BlakNGoldAllDay]

I don't claim to know everything. I'm just connecting the dots. It won't be too long before we see whether I'm right, partially right or dead wrong.

There’s no way it goes to P2 unless they bring in 20 more schools each. They would lose half of the audience doing that. Most people watch because their team could be there one day. If no chance, those fans won’t watch.

 

[Gwoz]

There’s no way it goes to P2 unless they bring in 20 more schools each. They would lose half of the audience doing that. Most people watch because their team could be there one day. If no chance, those fans won’t watch.

Half of college football audience is not alumni/fans of programs outside of the P2.

Could do a poll of UCF, alumni. A fair percentage doesn't even watch a game ever that doesn't include UCF, another significant amount doesn't watch period.

They don't care if they lose those fans. They want the general population that made up 27 million people who wanted to see Michigan vs. Alabama, a high percentage that has no ties to either school.

 

[BlakNGoldAllDay]

Half of college football audience is not alumni/fans of programs outside of the P2.

Could do a poll of UCF, alumni. A fair percentage doesn't even watch a game ever that doesn't include UCF, another significant amount doesn't watch period.

They don't care if they lose those fans. They want the general population that made up 27 million people who wanted to see Michigan vs. Alabama, a high percentage that has no ties to either school.

Yes. But say 13 mil wouldn’t care and not watch if only 30 schools could play in it one day. Especially if your school is one of them that can’t be in it. Some people would watch no matter what but quite a few definitely wouldn’t. Weeknight and later start for East Coast. Would not be good to drop 100 schools that theoretically at least have a chance.

 

[DaShuckster]

There’s no way it goes to P2 unless they bring in 20 more schools each. They would lose half of the audience doing that.

In 20-21, the NCAA reported earning $1.14 Billion---with a "B"----in revenue. The new playoff model is likely to blow the lid off those old revenue numbers. College Football's Big Dawgs don't plan to share it with the NCAA much longer. Why share it with 133 members -- or even 60 members -- when they can keep it to around 40?

Again, one might be able to rationalize why USC, UCLA, Washingon, and Oregon abandoned the Pac 12. But if the game plan was always three super-conferences, why did Texas and OU bail on the Big XII?

Most people watch because their team could be there one day. If no chance, those fans won’t watch.

Half of college football audience is not alumni/fans of programs outside of the P2. ... They don't care if they lose those fans. They want the general population that made up 27 million people who wanted to see Michigan vs. Alabama, a high percentage that has no ties to either school.

Bingo! 👍

What makes CFB at the highest level unique is that fans -- even casual viewers -- often cheer AGAINST one of the two teams playing.

 

[Gwoz]

Yes. But say 13 mil wouldn’t care and not watch if only 30 schools could play in it one day. Especially if your school is one of them that can’t be in it. Some people would watch no matter what but quite a few definitely wouldn’t. Weeknight and later start for East Coast. Would not be good to drop 100 schools that theoretically at least have a chance.

There is more people that are not affiliated with a school than that of schools that theoretically has a chance. Look on some of the general college football forums, it's full of people that are not alumni, those are the ones watching 5 games a week.

Troy theoretically has a chance, do you think their fans are watching because of that? They will still have their games just on a different tier, and their viewership will be the same. Another 40+ programs of the 100 would be exactly the same, if not more.

Not saying it's good for college football, but a financial perspective it is for TV networks and advertisers that want less games but higher consistent ratings. Not that much different from those voting to remove most of the bowl games.

 

[PositYourself]

 

[AuburnLegacy_1]

With Big Ten, SEC poised to dominate College Football Playoff bids, NIT-like tournament could offer solution

CFP access will not get much better for most programs despite the field expanding to 12 teams in 2024

www.cbssports.com

👁️‍🗨️👁️‍🗨️

 

[KnightroSlays]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/06/opinions/college-football-playoff-championship-leitch/index.html

 

[U C to the F]

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lol at usf…