Judge Rules against DeSantis EO on Masks in Schools

[Boosted87]

Listened to a good chunk of the hearing. Here's the relevant text from the Parental Bil of Rights (PBOR) for reference...

1014.03 Infringement of parental rights.—The state, any of its political subdivisions, any other governmental entity, or any other institution may not infringe on the fundamental rights of a parent to direct the upbringing, education, health care, and mental health of his or her minor child without demonstrating that such action is reasonable and necessary to achieve a compelling state interest and that such action is narrowly tailored and is not otherwise served by a less restrictive means.​

​

The judge outlined how the entire claimed basis for DeSantis authority was the PBOR (the defense didn't claim authority from anywhere else). The judge basically said the defense was relying on the bolded part of the law, but was ignoring the blue highlighted part. He also noted that this law is just a month or so old and he's the first judge in the state to interpret it.

The law itself says nothing about facemasks. Most importantly he was insistent on due process for school boards per the blue text. Yes they have a burden to demonstrate the requirements if challenged by parents per law, but nowhere is DeSantis or the DOE given the authority to pre-emptively make blanket conclusions without due process for the school boards.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

nowhere is DeSantis or the DOE given the authority to pre-emptively make blanket conclusions without due process for the school boards.

You could see this coming from a mile away. Ronnie probably knew this before he tried to put it into play just to appease the trailer camp chuds like Melvin and Corky.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Or the school boards being beta chuds

Awww. Don’t be so angry, Mel.

 

[DaShuckster]

You could see this coming from a mile away.

Yep.

Or the school boards being beta chuds

Beta school board members for what? TRYING to protect the kids in their district?

You've got to marvel at a Chud who's blasting school boards for the audacity of requiring masks while sending his own kids off to school without them.....and then watching them catch COVID.

OOPS....I FORGOT you told us your kids picked up the COVID bug from others who wore masks.

 

[Crazyhole]

The MMR Vaccine Might Offer Some Protection Against Severe COVID-19

New research has shown that the MMR vaccine may offer protection against severe COVID-19 infection.

www.verywellhealth.com

I posted this in another thread but it seems to fit here too. This may explain why kids don't tend to get bad cases of Covid.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Yep.

Beta school board members for what? TRYING to protect the kids in their district?

You've got to marvel at a Chud who's blasting school boards for the audacity of requiring masks while sending his own kids off to school without them.....and then watching them catch COVID.

OOPS....I FORGOT you told us your kids picked up the COVID bug from others who wore masks.

It’s just the sniffles.

Sincerely,

Dr. Knighttime
,

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

My sniffles comment was a bit of tongue and cheek from last year with the commie shutdowns over something that doesn't kill even a .5%. What exactly did the lockdowns do? We are surging today. What was the gain? Nobody wants people to die. We have over 63% vaccinated in Florida (at least 1 shot) and we have infections and deaths surging. Lockdowns did zero and lucky we were pretty open and not the California route.

From my house...very little symptoms with my kids. My son has been playing basketball outside all week. Unfortunately still testing positive so I can't get him back in school yet.

Thanks for the anecdotes, dr. Knighttime.

 

[Happy Hands]

Do the parental rights go both ways? If the state can’t ban face masks, shouldn’t parental rights also imply that school boards can’t mandate them? If a parent wants a kid to wear one then ok, but there really isn’t a solid scientific argument to force a kid to wear one. We have a bunch of viruses floating around Georgia and it’s still summer. I imagine it has to do with kids wearing germs traps all day.

 

[Crazyhole]

Do the parental rights go both ways? If the state can’t ban face masks, shouldn’t parental rights also imply that school boards can’t mandate them? If a parent wants a kid to wear one then ok, but there really isn’t a solid scientific argument to force a kid to wear one. We have a bunch of viruses floating around Georgia and it’s still summer. I imagine it has to do with kids wearing germs traps all day.

We are seeing this all over the country. RSV cases are through the roof and causing a lot of hospitalizations. Masks do more damage than good for children.

 

[Boosted87]

Do the parental rights go both ways? If the state can’t ban face masks, shouldn’t parental rights also imply that school boards can’t mandate them? If a parent wants a kid to wear one then ok, but there really isn’t a solid scientific argument to force a kid to wear one. We have a bunch of viruses floating around Georgia and it’s still summer. I imagine it has to do with kids wearing germs traps all day.

No. That's not what the law the state passed says.

The question was whether DeSantis/DOE had the authority under the law to ban mandates. The judge ruled that DeSantis is not given the authority to be the unilateral decider of what's reasonable and what isn't.
There has to be due process. School makes rule. Parent challenges rule. Court decides if the rule holds up (reasonable, narrow, compelling interest, etc).

 

[DaShuckster]

there really isn’t a solid scientific argument to force a kid to wear one.

Good grief, people are STILL arguing over face masks???!!?

Yeah, everybody is back to requiring face-masks again to exert their all-mighty POWER!!! 🤪

Dr. KNIGHTTIME made damn sure nobody was gonna force his kids to wear them by golly. But, alas, despite the freeing absence of those sinister 'germ traps,' they came down with COVID because of...cue drumroll....their masked classmates. Ain't that right, KNIGHTTIME?

 

[Happy Hands]

No. That's not what the law the state passed says.

The question was whether DeSantis/DOE had the authority under the law to ban mandates. The judge ruled that DeSantis is not given the authority to be the unilateral decider of what's reasonable and what isn't.
There has to be due process. School makes rule. Parent challenges rule. Court decides if the rule holds up (reasonable, narrow, compelling interest, etc).

I get that. But the law sited above would mean that school boards would also have to produce a compelling argument for mask mandates through due process. As it stands, there is no real compelling evidence that masks reduce transmission. Any benefit they might have, at best 1-3 % reduction which given the margin of error in most studies puts it functionally at zero, is countered by the harm they have the ability to cause.

 

[Happy Hands]

Good grief, people are STILL arguing over face masks???!!?

Yeah, everybody is back to requiring face-masks again to exert their all-mighty POWER!!! 🤪

Dr. KNIGHTTIME made damn sure nobody was gonna force his kids to wear them by golly. But, alas, despite the freeing absence of those sinister 'germ traps,' they came down with COVID because of...cue drumroll....their masked classmates. Ain't that right, KNIGHTTIME?

Your snarky comment doesn’t change reality. Masks haven’t been shown to reduce transmission. They are a security blanket. But you can still wear one. If the virus can’t get in, it can’t get out. The “mime doesn’t work, if you don’t wear one” argument is meant to have people police each other. It isn’t a scientific statement.

I think you underestimate the ability the state has for psychological manipulation. They are very good at what they do.

 

[UCFKnight85]

My 4 year old has been at VPK in a Catholic school since August 9 with a mask requirement. It’s a joke. 50% of them have chin diapers or their nose hanging out. The masks are largely useless even though our son wears his really well.

A “mask mandate” in schools only really matters with age groups that can honestly wear a mask properly all day and that probably doesn’t start until Grade 6 or so.

 

[DaShuckster]

Your snarky comment doesn’t change reality. Masks haven’t been shown to reduce transmission. They are a security blanket.

Funny how everybody has suddenly become viral scientists.

According to Doctor Happy Hands, we should avoid masks altogether with an airborne f*king virus because...masks haven't shown to reduce transmissions. WTF?

Weird how all the health experts say otherwise. Oooooh, but I forgot, it's all about...cue sinister music...state-sponsored psychological manipulation!!!!!!!!!! 🤪

 

[UCF11and1]

For what I heard, S Korea and HK are doing well with the masks

 

[NinjaKnight]

You could see this coming from a mile away. Ronnie probably knew this before he tried to put it into play just to appease the trailer camp chuds like Melvin and Corky.

It's political pandering all for the sake of votes. Desantis is using the trump policy going after room temperature IQ voters and it's working. The pathetic thing is people are dying over it.

 

[Crazyhole]

Funny how everybody has suddenly become viral scientists.

According to Doctor Happy Hands, we should avoid masks altogether with an airborne f*king virus because...masks haven't shown to reduce transmissions. WTF?

Weird how all the health experts say otherwise. Oooooh, but I forgot, it's all about...cue sinister music...state-sponsored psychological manipulation!!!!!!!!!! 🤪

^^^^^ fully vaxxed, wearing 2 masks, gloves and a faceshield when he gets takeout. Always has 2 bottles of hand sanitizer and a tub of chlorox wipes with him when he goes to get the mail.

 

[goodknightfl]

While I support Desantis, I always thought he was overstepping in this case. I personally am against forcing kids to wear them in school, but it should be done or not done by school districts, not Governors office.

 

[DaShuckster]

While I support Desantis, I always thought he was overstepping in this case. I personally am against forcing kids to wear them in school, but it should be done or not done by school districts, not Governors office.

Ironically, back in the day, this take would have been considered a ‘no-brainer’ conservative stance.

 

[sk8knight]

For what I heard, S Korea and HK are doing well with the masks

They do so much more than masking. Like not sending their sick kids to school to start. You really can’t compare the cultures.

 

[UCF11and1]

They do so much more than masking. Like not sending their sick kids to school to start. You really can’t compare the cultures.

Another thing that GOP governors don’t allow. Texas doesn’t even allow the school to tell parents that a sick kid was in the same classroom.
Some A-hole in Orange County sent his 2 kids to school 2 days after a positive test result

 

[Boosted87]

I get that. But the law sited above would mean that school boards would also have to produce a compelling argument for mask mandates through due process. As it stands, there is no real compelling evidence that masks reduce transmission. Any benefit they might have, at best 1-3 % reduction which given the margin of error in most studies puts it functionally at zero, is countered by the harm they have the ability to cause.

Right - that would be the process for parents to fight the mandate. But here's the problem. If a school board effectively defers to the judgement of the CDC and APA on a public health issue, I highly doubt a judge is going to declare themselves as a superior expert that can assess the conflicting data and overrule that decision.

 

[UCFBS]

Listened to a good chunk of the hearing. Here's the relevant text from the Parental Bil of Rights (PBOR) for reference...

1014.03 Infringement of parental rights.—The state, any of its political subdivisions, any other governmental entity, or any other institution may not infringe on the fundamental rights of a parent to direct the upbringing, education, health care, and mental health of his or her minor child without demonstrating that such action is reasonable and necessary to achieve a compelling state interest and that such action is narrowly tailored and is not otherwise served by a less restrictive means.​

​

The judge outlined how the entire claimed basis for DeSantis authority was the PBOR (the defense didn't claim authority from anywhere else). The judge basically said the defense was relying on the bolded part of the law, but was ignoring the blue highlighted part. He also noted that this law is just a month or so old and he's the first judge in the state to interpret it.

The law itself says nothing about facemasks. Most importantly he was insistent on due process for school boards per the blue text. Yes they have a burden to demonstrate the requirements if challenged by parents per law, but nowhere is DeSantis or the DOE given the authority to pre-emptively make blanket conclusions without due process for the school boards.

Thank you for not making a 3rd grade argument. It's nice to see one, even on something I disagree with. Well done. I'm being sincere, this response is a solid post and well backed.

That said, I agree with you that it's up for the parents to bring lawsuits. However ... should parents start to win those lawsuits, if DeSantis attempted to blanket again, after those lawsuits, I'd say he'd have far more authority.

I'm utterly against restricting freedoms, because I trust individual Americans -- let alone parents -- more than the state. In fact, the state has been showcasing a lot of advisement that has been downright wrong, and advocating full censorship of experts and peer reviewed studies that prove such.

Insert Dr. Rand Paul, MD's attempt to post a video with links to peer reviewed studies on YouTube. It's quite sick when the national narrative and its advisements are actually increasing infections, as politcians want to keep things open, now, because of newer leadership. Partisanship at its finest.

Still, post here is the best argument, especially since the law is brand new, and should to be challenged by parents first, and not something I'm used to seeing on this board ... which is far more 3rd grader at times.

 

[UCFBS]

EDIT: NPR literally just changed both the Headline and the content to fix it, as I was posting it, but refused to note why they fixed it. You can see it in the original URL too ...
florida-judge-throws-out-governor-ron-desantis-order-prohibiting-masks-in-school

On the other hand, NPR went 3rd grader ...​

Florida Judge Throws Out Gov. Ron DeSantis' Order Prohibiting School Mask Mandates

The judge said DeSantis overstepped his authority when he ordered schools not to require masks for students. COVID-19, especially the delta variant, is spreading rapidly across the Florida.

www.npr.org

​

For the last time ... DeSantis' order doesn't prohibit masks in schools. It prohibits the state and its agencies from mandating them, but parents may very well have their children wear them.​

 

[sk8knight]

Another thing that GOP governors don’t allow. Texas doesn’t even allow the school to tell parents that a sick kid was in the same classroom.
Some A-hole in Orange County sent his 2 kids to school 2 days after a positive test result

Are you really trying to say that GOP governors force parents to send sick kids to school? Are you intentionally lying or just so irrational that you don’t know what you’re saying anymore?

 

[UCFBS]

Are you really trying to say that GOP governors force parents to send sick kids to school? Are you intentionally lying or just so irrational that you don’t know what you’re saying anymore?

You forget, 'Good' Americans only trust the state ... not our fellow Americans.

 

[goodknightfl]

Another thing that GOP governors don’t allow. Texas doesn’t even allow the school to tell parents that a sick kid was in the same classroom.
Some A-hole in Orange County sent his 2 kids to school 2 days after a positive test result

Not sure if the legally can tell , Hippa laws

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Not sure if the legally can tell , Hippa laws

They do it all the time in FLorida. You as a parent are contacted if your child has been exposed to someone with Covid in the classroom.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Big government Desantis keeps getting embarrassed in court.

 

[Boosted87]

Not sure if the legally can tell , Hippa laws

My wife's expertise is this field. One of her favorite twitter accounts is BadHIPPATakes (@BadHippa). This post could make the cut. There's absolutely nothing about HIPPA that prevents a school from notifying someone they have a close contact.

 

[NinjaKnight]

My wife's expertise is this field. One of her favorite twitter accounts is BadHIPPATakes (@BadHippa). This post could make the cut. There's absolutely nothing about HIPPA that prevents a school from notifying someone they have a close contact.

First time reading a goodknightfl post?

The man is a walking doorknob. His only claim to fame in here is posting hilariously idiotic takes.

I would be willing to bet his shoe size outnumbers his IQ.

 

[UCFBS]

My wife's expertise is this field. One of her favorite twitter accounts is BadHIPPATakes (@BadHippa). This post could make the cut. There's absolutely nothing about HIPPA that prevents a school from notifying someone they have a close contact.

Agreed.

The problem is that people get dox'd or even outed, individually, when the government agency and/or private entity, doesn't secure that information, directly or indirectly, then they could be liable under HIPPA. It all depends on the information, where it came from or, in the case of government, if they didn't randomize it enough.

For example, if the government makes both a listed of children in school alongside the notification of positive test. That is an indirect disclosure that is not a direct violation of HIPPA, but opens up the liability indirectly. I spend 27 months at the US Census as 1 of their 2 primary software defined storage (SDS) gurus (the largest open source storage implementation at the time, which even Google leverages for their map data), and learned a crapload about the law.

Being able to pin-point people by using 2+ sources is a serious privacy violation, and something Big Tech is constantly guilty of violating. But Big Tech is super-rich, so until a class action lawsuit actually wins, or the US Gov't goes after them in full (unlikely, just been threats to do so to date, feds love Big Tech), all we have are some small lawsuits.

Ironically the US Census is the least of our concerns in comparison to all other agencies and Big Tech, because they are actually bound by law, and anyone -- even contractors -- who work there are bound by an oath ... myself included. We are required to point out such things, and prevent liability.

But we also, consistently noted and advised others when they did the same, from Google to local school districts.

 

[Boosted87]

Brevard implemented a 30 mandatory mask policy (medical opt outs only). We had 2/5 of the board supporting masking in spite of DeSantis order, so with the pending ruling here we got one to flip. Keep in mind we had mandatory masking all last school year.

My big takeaway - it's early but there seems to be reasonable evidence that Delta is spreading in schools at a rate far higher than previous strains.

The board has long been discussing case rates at rate per 100k population as the CDC has some guidelines for low vs high transmission rates on that scale. I believe that's a "new cases per week" kind of number. Last year, Brevard was typically between 50-100 per 100k. When school started, we were ~650/100k county wide. But was interesting is the school has data specific to the school population (students/staff).

The first week of school, the BPS case rate effectively matched the community rate. By the third week, the BPS rate is nearly 2.5x the community rate. While the county is relatively flat at 700/100k, the school population has spiked to over 1,900/100k.

 

[DaShuckster]

Totally insane to make kids wear masks when literally everywhere else it isn't required.

Except in airports and airplanes where travelers are packed next to each other in confined spaces....um, you know, like classrooms.

 

[UCFBS]

My big takeaway - it's early but there seems to be reasonable evidence that Delta is spreading in schools at a rate far higher than previous strains.

Yes, despite mRNA vaccinations, let alone by using a spike protein no longer common.

Now the kids rate is elevated, but still extremely low compared to adults by 1-4 orders of magnitude (a magnitude per decade older). This is mirroring OC43-CoV, and this is likely the variant that will be with us a long time. That may change, but is still most likely.

Teachers are the ones at most risk, by far.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Except in airports and airplanes where travelers are packed next to each other in confined spaces....um, you know, like classrooms.

On a plane, you're mere inches from at least one person for possibly hours. In most classrooms there's enough room to provide some level of spacing.

The airplane mask rule is also a joke when considering that people fling it off when eating or drinking. The virus forgets to spread when Jan takes off her mask for 45 minutes to take down a snack box and slam 3 glasses of wine.

 

[chemmie]

So, how many dead kids are we cool with?

 

[Crazyhole]

So, how many dead kids are we cool with?

50%

 

[Boosted87]

That isn't the mask. You have large crowds in small areas like the cafeteria where the china virus will spread. It is what it is. The reason why strict mask enforced regions were about the same as less strict mask regions prior to the vaccine.

Totally insane to make kids wear masks when literally everywhere else it isn't required. Kids with prior covid infections wearing masks? This makes no sense but yeah it's a school board so it does.

It's not insane. I actually think it's a good lesson to teach kids that making a personal sacrifice for the benefit of others is a pretty American thing to do.

Are there some kids with legitimate issues with masks? Absolutely. But mostly it's just parents who think their kids are special snowflakes. Maybe teach them that life sucks sometimes and you have to do things you don't want?